Sciencemadness Discussion Board

What happened to rhodium and Hive

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Sauron - 3-1-2007 at 22:24

The good news is that there's really no need to be concerned because the COMINT people really don't give a toss about any of us, we are not who they are in the business of watching/listening to. We are part of the baseline noise. You are not the Cali cartel. You are not the Medellin cartel. You are not the South Asian smack lords, nor the successoris to Khun Sa in the Shan States of Burma. You are not political. You are not terrorists (who are by definition political). So go about your routines and rest assured, THOSE guys don't care. The low level authorities might but they don't have Keyhole satellites and Crays. (neither especially up to date.)

Polverone - 3-1-2007 at 22:57

Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
I say nothing of the sort. I say NSA does not let any cryptographic technology go public unless and until they have a way into it. They watch the academic cryptographic community like a hawk, and use a combination of carrot and stick to maintain their hegemony. A similar situation prevails in Europe.

Cryptography available to the public is fine for keeping your wife from reading your emails to your GF but don't kid yourself that you are hiding anything from THOSE guys. NSA has a much larger budget than CIA, and answers to the SecDef. All you are doing when you use crypto on the Internet is red flagging yourself which is why I never use it. As I have nothing to hide (not even from my wife) it is not a problem.

The majority of the world's mathematicians, computer programmers, and cryptographers live outside of the US and the UK. The NSA has no way to maintain a global hegemony on encryption technologies, and they have failed in the past to persuade people not to publish powerful advances (e.g. early academic work on public key cryptography). Unless the NSA has the power to grant tenure, I doubt that most academics could be persuaded either by carrot or stick to refrain from publishing significant cryptologic advances.

A decade ago, the CIA had a budget of $3.1 billion, NSA budget $3.6 billion. Do you have a source to support a much larger NSA budget?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the claim that the NSA can defeat any cryptosystem is very extraordinary. Enigmatically worded anecdotes about a guy you knew who was persuaded not to auction technology developed by Crypto AG don't even come close to the needed extraordinary proof.

My favorite story about Crypto AG is that they collaborated with the NSA to build backdoors into products that would then be used by 3rd world governments. Luckily, all your encrypted email/web browsing needs can today be served by free software with documented, scrutinized algorithms and full source code availability.

Sauron - 3-1-2007 at 23:13

You want to believe in what you believe, fine, have at it.

The Thais used to believe that Buddhist amulets would protect them from guns and knives. They were of course, mistaken.

I put no stock in those things you hold to be effective.

But hang on to your illusions if you like. No skin off my nose.

Polverone - 4-1-2007 at 00:17

I think that people who believe government agencies can do anything are the ones who believe in magic.

Sauron - 4-1-2007 at 02:00

And you keep insisting on telling me what I believe. That is the second time you have put words in my mouth. And this is second time I spit them back at you.

I did not say "Government agencies can do everything."

Most government agencies are good for nothing but passing out green checks to arrogant undereducated bureaucrats named Twana. A GS-12 who in the private sector would perhaps be able to find employement in the food service or janitorial engineering fields. If she was lucky.

chromium - 4-1-2007 at 02:43

In my opinion strength of password based cryptography is largely overestimated. Human choosen passwords are never random enough to make brute force attacks as useless as they are said to be.

The set of possible passwords can be narrowed a lot if one has some data about habits of word usage of person who choose password.

If password is generated randomly then only very few are able to memorise it. It gets writen down (directly or somewhat coded) and this is security hole again.

I suppose, governemnt agencies invest a lot to find ways for effective attacs (for example man-in-the-middle type attacks) and they probably are able to break most of cryptography just using weaknesses of human factor or other not directly cryptography related weknesses in institutions, computer networks or communication systems.

[Edited on 4-1-2007 by chromium]

[Edited on 4-1-2007 by chromium]

pantone159 - 4-1-2007 at 10:14

The way to get a strong, memorizable password, is to use a longish pass phrase, which is then hashed into the actual key.

If your phrase is long/good enough, the hash is indistinguishable from a random key.

JohnWW - 5-1-2007 at 15:27

Quote:
Originally posted by Polverone
The majority of the world's mathematicians, computer programmers, and cryptographers live outside of the US and the UK. The NSA has no way to maintain a global hegemony on encryption technologies, and they have failed in the past to persuade people not to publish powerful advances (e.g. early academic work on public key cryptography). Unless the NSA has the power to grant tenure, I doubt that most academics could be persuaded either by carrot or stick to refrain from publishing significant cryptologic advances.
[ http://www.fas.org/irp/commission/budget.htm ]. A decade ago, the CIA had a budget of $3.1 billion, NSA budget $3.6 billion. Do you have a source to support a much larger NSA budget?

The CIA gets a lot of money for "off-budget" activities, i.e. "black" projects, by drug-running heroin and cocaine by air (to secured USAF airfields) and submarine from countries like Colombia, Panama, Burma, Laos, Thailand, Afghanistan, Pakistan (and formerly Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, Chile, and Iran, before the changes of régime there to less compliant left-leaning ones). With the acquiescence of the FBI, the stuff is secretly sold to wholesalers in the form of the Mafia crime syndicates, and finds its way onto the streets of U.S. cities - only these final retailers ever get caught by local cops. This way, the illicit funding escapes the attention of the auditors of the GAO, because it is not taxpayer's money, and there is no way of telling anywhere near how much money the CIA makes from drugs.

Noriega of Panama was one of the CIA-sponsored dictators whose cooperation for drug-smuggling the CIA got as part of their price for putting him in power, but he had to be removed by the U.S. military and framed for alleged drug-smuggling himself when he wanted to throw off the U.S. "yoke" and go his own independent way. Cooperation in secret CIA drug-smuggling was probably a major part of the price that the Latin American Fascist dictators like Pinochet, Somoza, Trujillo, Fujimori, Battista, etc. agreed to, in order to have the CIA finance and organize the overthrow of their mostly democratically-elected predecessors. The so-called "war/whore on drugs" is a total sham, to cover this up, and to eliminate non-CIA rival smugglers.

There have been several incidents in which CIA pilots have been caught in possession of tonnes of the stuff in CIA-registered planes, which made unscheduled forced landings on civilian airfields (particularly in México) due to mechanical faults. Naturally, the CIA denied all knowledge of the flights.

About the other point: that the "majority of the world's mathematicians, computer programmers, and cryptographers live outside of the US and the UK" shows how "dumbed-down" the education systems are becoming there, especially in the USA. This is due to massive tax cuts for the rich (in return for campaign financing) and "user-pays" (meaning that higher education is increasingly the privilege of "silver-spooners"). But, in view of the imperiousness and paranoia of the NSA, and its use for party political purposes by the Bu$h régime (Bu$h recently reckoned that he has the right to read other citizen's mail, for any reason he chooses and without any judicial oversight), this is perhaps just as well.

[Edited on 5-1-2007 by JohnWW]

Polverone - 5-1-2007 at 15:51

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnWW
About the other point: that the "majority of the world's mathematicians, computer programmers, and cryptographers live outside of the US and the UK" shows how "dumbed-down" the education systems are becoming there, especially in the USA. This is due to massive tax cuts for the rich (in return for campaign financing) and "user-pays" (meaning that higher education is increasingly the privilege of "silver-spooners").

No, the reason is population, not funding. The USA/UK have less than 6% of the world's people living in them.

To the extent that is happening, the "dumbing down" of higher education is correlated with increasing access to it, not decreasing. Both in absolute terms and percentagewise, the number of Americans attending higher education has increased for decades. The US has a fine (if expensive) system of higher education. It has an excellent and well-funded system for people seeking advanced degrees, at least in science/math/engineering. I finished my master's at a state school just a year ago, and it cost me nothing. In fact I had a few thousand dollars saved up from my research assistant stipend by the time I graduated.

Sauron - 5-1-2007 at 15:55

What you are spouting, @JohnWW, is a popular myth promoted by Hollywood. The fact is: the only documented evidence of intelligence involvement in cocaine smuggling was when the DEA turned a Pablo Escobar pilot (veteran of 50 flights before he was caught) names Bobby Seal from Baton Rouge, La. and rigged his plane with cameras. Seal filmed Cuban DGI agents loading cocaine -- not CIA, Cuban communist spies -- and brought the film back to the US government. For his efforts Bobby Seal was murdered by hitmen from the Medellin cartel. That cartel was organized with the advice of fugitive financier Robert Vesco, and his accountant Norman Augustine, who were then residing in Costa Rica. Where's Vesco today? Why, he's in CUBA my friend.

In Afghanistan we are fighting and NATO is fighting to destroy the Taliban and their AQ allies who are the ones who control the South Asian heroin trade, not the CIA. The South East Asian heroin trade is controlled by the communist government of Laos and the anti-American dictatorship in Myanmar (Burma).

I live next door to both those countries. So who do you think you are kidding?

JohnWW - 5-1-2007 at 16:30

Except for the population-related matter pointed out by Polverone, I stand by what I wrote above, concerning the CIA, Sauron. The FBI and DEA "turn a blind eye" to illegal CIA activities, except where the CIA wants "rogue" agents, and agents of rivals such as the Cuban Secret Cops (the DGI) who threaten to "spill the beans" neutralized, to protect their lucrative source of secret income. As regards the drug-smuggling into the USA, what you said merely shows that the Cuban Secret Police (who must also have connections among Mafia crime syndicates, to sell to) is trying to "muscle in on the action", and get a "cut" of the money (desperately needed foreign currency) by allowing Cuba to be used as a trans-shipment area for the Colombian Medellin Cartel's cocaine. Regardless of political creed, money sure talks.

What you have overlooked is that very large rural areas of Afghanistan, Laos (and Thailand and Cambodia), and Burma (Myanmar), are completely out of the control of either NATO troops and the Afghan Government (Karzai is effectively just the Mayor of Kabul), the Taliban/AlQaeda, the Laotian and Cambodian and Thai governments, and the military dictatorship in Burma, due to the weakness of their governments and local insurrections. The CIA therefore can (and does) do "deals" with local war-lords and tribal chiefs for the purchase of their locally-grown raw opium and/or heroin, which are flown out in secret flights. During the Vietnam War/Whore, with a compliant South Vietnamese Government, the CIA had it even easier, especially due to Vietnam's long coastline, and many stories have come to light about how the CIA smuggled heroin out of South Vietnam in coffins or body-bags, even inside the pre-embalmed bodies of slain U.S. soldiers.

If you still subscribe to the hoary old myth that Uncle Sam does not tell lies to U.S. citizens or the rest of the world, or does not withhold politically sensitive information that would have U.S. citizens calling for the blood of Bu$h and indeed for the blood of the entire U.S. Government's military-industrial-intelligence-scientific establishment, you are sadly mistaken. Whistle-blowers who are coming forward in increasing numbers, about 9/11 and the illegal activities of the CIA and NSA and other conspiracies, must militate otherwise.

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by JohnWW]

Sauron - 5-1-2007 at 16:54

Why are you spewing tired, phony old anti-American propaganda on a CHEMISTRY forum?

The same old lies have been in circulation since the sixties. They weren't true then and they aren't true now. Get real.

I suggest you get back to talking about chemistry. You were better at it.

JohnWW - 5-1-2007 at 17:18

Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
Why are you spewing tired, phony old anti-American propaganda on a CHEMISTRY forum? The same old lies have been in circulation since the sixties. They weren't true then and they aren't true now. Get real. I suggest you get back to talking about chemistry. You were better at it.

This is relevant to chemistry, as to how a large part of the heroin and cocaine eventually sold on the streets gets into the USA, essentially unhindered. The CIA probably have their own opium-refining labs. I pity you, Sauron - you are clearly a victim of U.S. Government "official" propaganda, much of the both style and substance of which has been plagiarized from Goebbels. There is now simply too much corroboration from many sources for what I wrote above not to be true. Were you even alive in the 1960s, like me?

MargaretThatcher - 5-1-2007 at 17:43

The international drug trade is just too large for state agencies not to be complicit in some way or other. If Ronnie is going to do stuff like sell arms to Iran to fund the Contras, then what sort of shenanigans the CIA gets up to with narcotics is anyone's guess.

Polverone - 5-1-2007 at 17:56

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnWW
This is relevant to chemistry, as to how a large part of the heroin and cocaine eventually sold on the streets gets into the USA, essentially unhindered. The CIA probably have their own opium-refining labs. I pity you, Sauron - you are clearly a victim of U.S. Government "official" propaganda, much of the both style and substance of which has been plagiarized from Goebbels. There is now simply too much corroboration from many sources for what I wrote above not to be true. Were you even alive in the 1960s, like me?

What are your sources? There are many historians and other academics who have written about dirty dealings of the US government, so if there's substance to your accusations, I'd expect to see some credible (scholarly) writing about them.

I have little love for many aspects of my government, but I also expect to see proof before leaping to conclusions about (say) the NSA's anti-encryption magic, the CIA's opium labs, or NASA's hidden Martian bases. There have been some apparently credible accusations that drug-smuggling criminals who worked with the CIA were deliberately shielded from prosecution. You take that substantiated kernel and build a huge, unsubstantiated edifice around it.

Sauron - 5-1-2007 at 23:20

There are some real fruitcakes in the academic world and always have been. I recommend the book "Academia Nuts" which is simply hilarious.

As to historians, there are historians (like the late Dr Stepheh Ambrose,, one of my teachers) and then there are the soi-dissant "historians"who are an embarassment. Like the ones who sued Dan Brown, or the Brit who just got out of jail in Austria for Holocaust denial. How about Robert Anton Wilson, the "historian" of the Illuminati (more myth). Or Erich van Daniken. The media calls them historians. They are hackneyed polemicists.

I suspect the "historian" that lies behind JohnWW's puffery is Alfred McCoy, author of "The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia"/

That book made about a big splash in the late 60s/early 70s but, it has long since been discredited as a tissue of lies, half truths and distortions.

As a professional and very senior journalist in South East Asia specializing in politico-military affairs for the last 20 years, this is something I know about. It's my job to know about it. Chemistry is my hobby. Journalism is my occupation, offivially. NowI am semi-retired.

The following well worn little green book is my Thai government ID card issued by the Foreign Press division of the Public Relations Dept, office of the Prime Minister. Since 1990. The title inside is Bureau Chief.



Edit: Sauron, I removed your attachment and replaced it with this smaller image because the old one was huge. Please don't attach large images; they are set to display inline automatically and will stretch the page so it becomes hard to read.

[Edited on 1-6-2007 by Polverone]

JohnWW - 5-1-2007 at 23:40

What I have seen, in support of what I wrote are various news items over about the last 35 years, in which various whistle-blowers have dared to speak up about the ways in which the CIA runs drugs for extra money, finances and organizes right-wing coups to overthrow left-leaning democratically-elected governments, finances and disseminates right-wing propaganda e.g. the so-called Voice Of America radio in eastern Europe, runs and teaches how to run torture ("interrogation") chambers, etc.. Some of the whistle-blowers were killed for their trouble, including and especially journalists. One such journalist was Danny Casolaro a few years ago, murdered in an hotel room in West Virginia in circumstances strongly implying the CIA was behind it, because only the CIA had the motive to want him dead to stop him from talking. These incidents have culminated in a number of well-researched magazine articles in recent years - nearly all published outside the USA, of necessity, because the mainstream media and publishers there are all "in the pockets of" the CIA and the ruling plutocracy - linking them together. I will look through my archives and copy some of these articles for you.

Sauron - 6-1-2007 at 00:46

Don't bother. What you are talking about are misc gangsters and drug dealers playing the tired old "CIA defense" in court. It doesn't work and never has.

A few left wing radical publications like the Socialist Workers Party (trotskyite) newspaper like to keep these urban myths alive. No one else even cares.

Or traitors like Philip Agee turned by the DGI and now running a travel agency in Havana. One of these days Phil will get a fatal does of lead poisoning. Two in the medulla oblongata. Adios, puto!

Give it a rest, this is BORING.

And off topic.

Talk about chemistry. Not old wives tales. Not recycled old clippings from dubious perioducals.

Organikum - 6-1-2007 at 04:15

You sound like Polythene Sam on medication.

Sauron - 6-1-2007 at 04:54

Don't know the gentleman and the only meds I am on are for diabetes and hypertension.

FANTOMAS - 24-1-2007 at 14:51

Can I post Here a pic of my "member"?

Magpie - 24-1-2007 at 15:17

I smell carrion. Where's vulture?

[Edited on 25-1-2007 by Magpie]

Beatnik - 29-1-2007 at 20:08

I know this subject is relatively dead but having just re-read a large chunk of the thread i wanted to chime in.

I miss the hive. I miss the people. I miss the atmosphere. However, with it gone i did gain a life aswell and learnt some real chem. While there was some great stuff on there the discussion was mostly crap. A lot of people talking out of their arses, wasting their time. Lots of people since then have sat down with an art pad, their organic chem texts, scifinder, and their uni library and made more progress then some of the people learning by rote there.

THIS is the new hive. It grew up, cut its hair, got a job, put down the pipe and got responsibilies then moved out into the real world. Still has an appreciation for the ghetto procedures, better sources of information.... you guys just dont know it. Rhodium will hang around as a usefull source of info for newbs (like me), a unique historical site. But it will be replaced when you guys get that damned text book on amateur chem of the fucking ground.

The hive was a gathering ground, now that the wheat has been seperated from the chaff.... world domination?

mono - 26-3-2007 at 09:50

probably posted before but just to complete this topic, a link to the hive backup:
http://www.telegenetic.net/hiveboard/

gambler - 24-5-2007 at 01:09

Above link does not work..

I have my hive backup backed up safely :o

I believe synthetikal.org still has a link to what was recaptured of the message board

Peace

mono - 9-9-2007 at 10:36

Quote:
Originally posted by gambler
Above link does not work..


link works again, complete archive available for download at link (except for Russian and the couch forum)

http://www.telegenetic.net/hiveboard/

I still have hope that it will come back sometime... (in 2012 ;))

franklyn - 10-9-2007 at 08:16

Quote:

____What happened to rhodium and Hive

It's still there , in other forms _

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9109

.

Slimz - 25-9-2007 at 11:55

http://designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/rh...

WizardX - 4-11-2007 at 17:47

This will give you some idea of the Hive situation. http://wizardx.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=Hive

Edward Elric - 7-12-2007 at 13:51

:o

For a moment, I thought the HIVE was still alive.
It probably is, but I don't know about it.

PLZ, lock the thread?

[Edited on 7-12-2007 by Edward Elric]

New advanced drug chemistry forum

synapse - 24-2-2008 at 03:19

Hi, some of you may be aware of the forum Bluelight (a drug harm-reduction-focused discussion forum). Some of us felt limited in what we could discuss there, so we created a sort of alter-ego version, which we named Blacklight. At Blacklight, we can discuss advanced pharmacology & synthetic chemistry.

Anyway, this is an invitation to those interested in the advanced side of this subject (such as ex-Hive members) to come along and check us out (read below for more info). That way you can stop scaring those with a distaste for such things here :P .

Please note: You will not be granted access immediately upon registration.
This is because we are not interested in members who only want to discuss meth teks and the like - so we make it hard for people who might want opportunist information to get it. We want only responsible, intelligent people who are interested in advanced chemistry and pharmacology for novel, advanced compounds.
Access will be granted after you achieve a certain postcount in our General forums, and then Private-Message a Global Moderator (such as myself) or Administrator with a short (~200 words) blurb about yourself and how you'll fit in at Blacklight (we even provide some example questions you can answer)... or if you can get a referral from some of our existing respected & talented userbase, or otherwise provide us with very convincing evidence about your suitabillity.

If you feel like you meet the description above, please come visit us at http://blacklight.in .

[Edited on 25-2-2008 by MattPsy]

synapse - 23-3-2008 at 15:10

Invitation is now closed.

Eliteforum - 28-3-2008 at 03:19

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 8 on 19 Mar 2008, 18:00

The Hive

MadHatter - 28-3-2008 at 23:41

This one will probably be impossible to duplicate. The closest I've ever come is WD.
Many have tried but no one even comes close. I await Strike's return !

And, YES, I'm a member of BlueLight although it isn't promising.


[Edited on 2008/3/29 by MadHatter]

solo - 29-3-2008 at 01:00

Quote:
Originally posted by MadHatter
This one will probably be impossible to duplicate. The closest I've ever come is WD.
Many have tried but no one even comes close. I await Strike's return !

And, YES, I'm a member of BlueLight although it isn't promising.



.......do you mean blacklight?... solo

[Edited on 29-3-2008 by solo]

synapse - 29-3-2008 at 19:49

If indeed they do mean Blacklight, I don't see why it isn't promising ;) .
We've only been operating for 2 months now, and already have 1838 posts, 211 topics, 140 members (although many of the members are non-posting, of course, as with many forums). Pretty good going, i'd say.

SecretSquirrel - 30-3-2008 at 03:07

The number of posts and topics doesn't mean anything. If they don't contain any useful information it's pretty useless in my opinion.

synapse - 30-3-2008 at 23:26

You're right. Fortunate that they do, then, no ;) ?
It'll only get better too.
I've noticed that some members that were with us for a while (one of which was banned for abuse) have since gone around badmouthing us, amid accusations that we deleted their content etc. Rather petty, I think, haha.
Fortunately, actions speak louder than words. :)

solo - 7-6-2008 at 10:28

I was curious to see how the new org chem forum (blacklight) is doing....but it seems to be off line....well that didn't last much....

Also noted that synthetikal and total-synthesis are off line for quite a while......I guess Hellman found a new method to make money as he got tired of milking the files.. ..........solo

[Edited on 7-6-2008 by solo]

Sauron - 8-6-2008 at 03:17

As my old friend Sam used to say, "The world will little note, nor long remember..."

syntelman - 8-6-2008 at 06:30

As far as I know Blacklight was only temporarily down for 2 days due to some network administration (upgrade to a faster bandwidth me thinks). Anyway it's back on-line now. :)

And synthetikal won't be missed for sure! :D

synapse - 9-6-2008 at 04:28

While we do have an upgrade planned for more bandwidth, my understanding is that the server crashed shortly after our admin went on a short holiday, so it finally got back online when he returned. Sorry for the [unexpected] outage! We're still around and will continue to be for the forseeable future. Feel free to join us, we'd appreciate some more members skilled in synthesis. :) ~best regards.

[Edited on 10-6-2008 by synapse]

Ephoton - 14-6-2008 at 10:43

I doubt any forum will ever come close to the hive unless they have
the backing of the nights mother. :).

the prime minister of england I am sure would say the same as they were a very close friendship for a long time.

I doubt the russians will want another board like the hive to be honest or
they would have just translated there own.

honestly who wants to write a 200 word blah blah kissing ass to some
one they never knew so as to access something that babel will
make look like childes play.

you want to do something big for the clad synth scene stop writing php
and write a nice translator that works with https.

preferable that does not use an online translator or at least uses
tor to do translations.

problem then is you don't get to look like a chem god :)

synthetikal all over.

cant wait for the adsence.

[Edited on 14-6-2008 by Ephoton]

MagicJigPipe - 14-6-2008 at 15:19

I'll admit, the Hive was certainly better than certain other forums but not better than this one, IMO.

It appeared to be WAY too focused on drugs and more specifically, phenethylamines and phenylpropylamines. That stuff never gets old to some people for some reason.

I like this forum because it's like a cornicopia of chemistry.

Sauron - 14-6-2008 at 18:57

I guess you mean cornucopia, but we can have some joycean fun teasing out the implications of "cornicopia" anyway...

I agree with you by the way.

solo - 14-6-2008 at 19:23

Quote:
Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
I'll admit, the Hive was certainly better than certain other forums but not better than this one, IMO.

It appeared to be WAY too focused on drugs and more specifically, phenethylamines and phenylpropylamines. That stuff never gets old to some people for some reason.

I like this forum because it's like a cornicopia of chemistry.


...........of course you were a member of the Hive and you would know ...not!.........there is no similarity..... and there is and will be only one Hive no comparison ....solo, a long standing Hive member.......java

[Edited on 14-6-2008 by solo]

S.C. Wack - 14-6-2008 at 20:59

I think some people here may have not really looked very deep in the-hive, either in person or in the incomplete archives. It is true that inorganic chemistry especially was given short shrift, there wasn't a lot of interest in it there. Organic chemistry is a different matter. Knowledgeable and well-equipped people were attracted to it. The experiments of the members that were posted were a little different than those here, sure.

I've not seen the references forum here, but I doubt that there exists there or anywhere else the incredible cooperative effort of finding and posting references; common, obscure, in any language, rather often not worthless and lame, and not necessarily drug-related.

The collective amount of time and effort, combined with the amount of information presented will be tough to match. I don't see that level of "building something" here, from that many of its members. Or at any other forum for amateurs, in English-language interweb tubes. I'm not that qualified to say though. If Polverone disagrees, well he would know.

[Edited on 14-6-2008 by S.C. Wack]

Polverone - 14-6-2008 at 22:22

Quote:
Originally posted by S.C. Wack
I've not seen the references forum here, but I doubt that there exists there or anywhere else the incredible cooperative effort of finding and posting references; common, obscure, in any language, rather often not worthless and lame, and not necessarily drug-related.

The collective amount of time and effort, combined with the amount of information presented will be tough to match. I don't see that level of "building something" here, from that many of its members. Or at any other forum for amateurs, in English-language interweb tubes. I'm not that qualified to say though. If Polverone disagrees, well he would know.

I think there's a pretty strong effort to retrieve requested references here. Much of this work is done by just a handful of members, though. Translations are harder to come across here than they were on the Hive. A lot more legacy material has been digitized by publishers and third parties since the Hive shut down, so fewer references (still plenty though) actually require trips to the library stacks. Fewer articles/references are just shared here as "of interest" to members, since this forum doesn't have an overarching purpose like the Hive did.

The Hive was an incredible place, and not just for people who wanted to manufacture drugs. Much of the shared experimentation, literature, and coaching on laboratory practice would be applicable to anyone who wanted to explore chemistry independently. It is hard to imagine such a convergence of amateur chemists meeting in one place again.

The Hive achieved critical mass in a way that this site hasn't and probably won't. It had enough members from enough backgrounds that articles in almost any language could be translated, if they merited it. It had enough actively experimenting members that people could find virtual research partners, of a sort, and verify/refine each other's work. It had a tremendous range of experience among members, so there were mentors for members of almost any skill level.

Every time I post about the late, great Hive I have to lament that the leadership keeps the archives private. The unofficial partial backup may be all we'll ever see. I don't deny that Rhodium and the mod/admin crew put a lot of work into the site, but their contributions are dwarfed by the collective contributions of the lay membership. It was a betrayal to take that collaboration and lock it away from all but a handful of insiders. If the Hive wasn't going to reopen, someone with access to backups should have prepared a sanitized database dump or static HTML archive and shared it via bittorrent/usenet/rapidshare long ago. I know there are people who read this site and could still do the right thing.

MagicJigPipe - 14-6-2008 at 22:56

Quote:

...........of course you were a member of the Hive and you would know ...not!.........there is no similarity..... and there is and will be only one Hive no comparison ....solo, a long standing Hive member.......java


No offense but your responses on the matter are extremely predictable. Not that there's anything wrong with being predictable sometimes... Just in case it's indicative of anything, I knew you going to say that almost verbatim. And we all know which forum's you are a member of. You need not wave your metaphorical flag here.

Still, we can all agree that the Hive's main purpose was for discussion of drug syntheses. And there's nothing wrong with that either, IMO. But, like I said before, the focusing on one thing and one type of drug would get old to me (I know there was focus on other things but a large chunk was about a certain group of drugs). From what I've read it seemed like it started to be just be the same thing over and over with slight variations.

That happens to a certain extent here but it doesn't seem as "bad", IMO.

Judging from what I've read and heard, if the Hive existed today I would still spend most of my time over here. Polverone, you shouldn't diminish what you have created here. It is better, in some ways, than the Hive.

Allow me to rant, please.

I dislike the idea that former Hive member's have--that they are better than everyone else. I know this is not just me that sees this. If someone appears to "go against" a former Hive member (or the Hive itself), they are immediately pounced upon by his/her pawns. It's barbaric and childish as it is usually nothing more than petty insults and cheap shots. The anonymity of the internet seems to lead people to behave in ways that they would be ashamed of in reality. Here's a hint, too much pride is a bad thing (especially in something like an internet forum) and almost always leads to trouble and/or psychological issues. If you feel like saying something that you would probably get your ass kicked for in reality... Don't say it.

Solo, that paragraph is not about you. DO NOT start a fight with me, please. I really, don't have time. In fact, I've already spent too much time on this post!

Sauron - 15-6-2008 at 03:05

MJP, as I understand it The Hive was never open to the public, it was invitation only. Solo has stated several times that he was a member. He has vigorously disputed criticism of the Hive, and I must say, that as you appear to be criticizing a forum you never logged on to and could not have lurked around, his criticism is pretty valid.

Rhodium is not The Hive, is a subset of the Hive, and it is certainly all of the Hive that I have ever seen and so I suspect the same is true of you.

My agreement with your remarks went only so far as they applied to the Rhodium partial archive.

Bad for to know something that you can't possibly have read.

S.C. Wack - 15-6-2008 at 05:56

Membership was closed from time to time, but AFAIK only when NBC aired reruns of the Dateline episode "The X Files".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk8tRBp1mU

Rhodium is a collection of articles, books, article excerpts, a few Hive excerpts, and a few things written specially for his site. What you have seen of Rhodium in archives such as Erowid and d-d is a third, perhaps, of what was actually available there.

Two unofficial Hive archives have been made available. IIRC threats were made that the-hive would not return unless these archives went away. Now that synthetikal and telegenetic are gone, a case can bee made that this was merely an excuse available at the time, like the previous excuses.

The former telegenetic web/.zip archive has been uploaded as a public split volume .rar, so that there is a link in this thread. Although the dates may indicate that the chemistry forums are intact for the board as it was at the end, many threads are not there, as was the case the synthetikal-hosted web/.iso archive that it was based on, and to a (perhaps lesser) degree at the site itself before 11/14/04. Hyperlab and the non-chem forums are not present of course.

These pages do not have the full HTML formatting. Maybe someone would be interested in what a Hive thread looked like during the time that it was most popular, so here is a page: post 290438; "2-hydroxy-5-MeO-BA: The easy way". See there that no one came and shat all over the thread, unlike this one. That may have been due to it being locked after posting, though.

[Edited on 15-6-2008 by S.C. Wack]

Attachment: whatthehivelookedlike.zip (16kB)
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MagicJigPipe - 15-6-2008 at 06:04

I've read the archives and various informative pieces on the Hive. That's what I meant by "from what I've read". Really, I'm not criticizing it that much, I'm just saying that it appeared to have flaws that would've made me post at places like ScienceMadness more often than on it.

Sorry, S.C. Wack, I haven't read your post yet! That's what the edit button is for though.

Quote:
See there that no one came and shat all over the thread, unlike this one.


What is that supposed to mean? You see, that's what I mean. As if discussion is somehow "shitting all over a thread". The Hive was soooooo great that threads were never deficated upon. Sheeeesh. This is tiring.

If it weren't for things like that people's (including mine) opinion of the Hive might be better. Incessant belittling of this forum in contrast to the Hive (which doesn't exist, BTW) just doesn't seem like a good way to show that Hive members had lots of class.

Also, I believe that was a stab at me which is indicative of what I said earlier.

My apologies S.C. Wack if this is not what you intended. However, do you see how Hive fanaticism can cause people who have no problem with one another to start "flaming"?

[Edited on 6-15-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

S.C. Wack - 15-6-2008 at 06:41

Quote:
Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
What is that supposed to mean? You see, that's what I mean. As if discussion is somehow "shitting all over a thread".


Try reading this thread before telling me that it hasn't been shat on. It clearly has. And by saying it hasn't without actually reading it, you...

Has it occurred to you that maybe the singular greatness of the-hive was not mass hallucination, and perhaps the problem is with you? A lot of people have problems with you, and I'm not so sure that this is because they were Hive members. Funny how that is.

MagicJigPipe - 15-6-2008 at 13:05

Who? Give examples. Back up your claims. And since I'm almost certain you're talking about "people" from a separate forum, I don't care. And you're probably somewhat right. People who speak their minds have people that disagree with them. However, it appears that only former members of the Hive consider this disagreement a "problem".

The Hive apparently was/is a great source of information. In fact, I have no problems with it. It's the way some former members will defend to the death any mention of it's flaws without tact or morality that causes my disdain. It appears to share many similarities to religious fanatacism. It was an online forum with a wealth of information, nothing more, nothing less. You act as if it is your religion and it's creator is your god. Others may be afraid to discuss any flaws that it may have had, but not I. I won't let you insult me into silence.

Notice that you are the one that keeps bringing it to a personal level. "People don't like you! Huh!" How cliche. It seems that attempted character assassination seems to have much popularity among former members (and people that wish they were former members).

I really don't have time to sit and bicker with you. If you want to have a civil argument/debate then, fine. If not, like I said, I don't have time. I'm supposed to be writing a 1000 word essay... Which reminds me...

So, can you make a post that does not contain some sort of personal attack? Are you capable of that in this situation? Remember, personal attacks indicate that you can think of no other way to argue your point.

[Edited on 6-15-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

PainKilla - 15-6-2008 at 14:05

Can everyone stop arguing? Seriously, petty bickering like this takes away from *this* forum, of which we are all members and thus have an obligation to keep running as smoothly as possible.

The Hive was what it was, nothing more and nothing less. For those more intimately involved, it was a place that was and is irreplaceable. For those less involved, it was a treasure trove of information relating to organic chemistry. For others, it was something else entirely.

It's gone but not forgotten. Can't we just leave it at that?

If people want a forum to attack each other, why not register at some random forum and bicker there?

This is a chemistry forum.

Thanks!

PS: I hope no one responds to this (or any of the above posts), unless it's news about the Hive, or an archive.

[Edited on 15-6-2008 by PainKilla]

Sauron - 15-6-2008 at 17:20

Painkilla is quite right. Whatever this thread is about, it isn't chemistry, and chemistry is what THIS forum isall about.

MagicJigPipe - 15-6-2008 at 18:01

Painkilla, I see your point. Sauron, I also see yours but this is in the "Forum Matters" section of the forum. Although this particular "argument" has almost nothing to do with chemistry, I don't think it's fair to use that broad argument for all discussions here. I admit that this should be in Whimsy but debate is healthy, IMO, as long as it doesn't get personal.

Argggg... Damn this forum! It keeps taking me away from my essay. Essays on literature is one of the hardest things for me. This one happens to be on a play, which is slightly more bearable. I can't wait until I'm done with this class and I never have to take another English class again! but this is OT and I'll stop...

I shall do myself and this thread a favor by just skipping over the "Forum Matters" section for a couple of days.

Sauron - 15-6-2008 at 20:11

I believe Forum Matters is about Matters pertaining to THIS forum and not any other existing or lapsed forum. No, MJP, you didn't start this thread. But it really is pretty OT as well as obviously divisive.

bigbigbeaker - 15-6-2008 at 21:15

I feel like I have to put in my two bits about the Hive. I logged onto Rhodium everyday for four, maybe five years. As I remember, the site disappeared briefly in 2003 maybe. It had been a .com. But it returned as Rhodium.ws. Rhodium said the server was located in Western Somoa. After it became a .ws I felt that things were changing and they did with its demise. It was a big part of my daily life. My days felt incomplete when I couldn't log in. It was always such an exciting place and the first of its kind in my life. But it was a bit overly directed to producing controlled drugs - principally speed. That's something I have never done and never will do. None the less, the chemistry was exciting. I intently followed the GAK wars where manufacturers worked at developing a psuedofed that couldn't be extracted and Hive members figured out evermore ingenious extraction methods. But the main thrust was always speed. For instance, all the forum members were called Bees because their purpose in life was to produce Honey. I assumed honey was amphetamine base. There were also different classes of bees. The worst was to be a drone. The thing about the Hive is that there was so much active talent contributing all the time with Rhodium at the center. I'm not sure exactly who Rhodium was. I always figured he was a grad chem student. I think he may have eluded to that fact sometime in a post. It seemed like his big work in life was the formal writeup in HTML and .pdf drug reactions as the best synth was finalized. Those are those nice writeup you see in the archive boxed in blue and gray. I think Rhodium one time alluded to hoping he could finish the write-ups, liking he was moving on or graduating or something. I was delighted when I discovered SciMadness. It was alot like the Hive but with a much broader base. The Hive had different sections to the forum but the big action was always in the Amphetamines and Stimulants section. It seems to me like SM exists because its members love chemistry and want to share the experience with anyone else with a similar interest. It seemed to me like the Hive was principally about making illegal drugs which would be sold. And then people get hurt. I always thought that was unfortunate and I still do.

SecretSquirrel - 15-6-2008 at 23:34

^^ Bigbigbeaker I think you are wrong here. I was a member of The Hive for nearly 4 years (under a different username) and as far as I can remember most of the well respected members were against making controlled substances for profit. It was more about finding novel reaction paths to known substances and also discovering new interesting ones.

And the discussions were not mainly amphetamine oriented either. Maybe you should have spent more time reading the serious chemistry and novel discourse forums and a little less the stimulants forum. If you want to know what an amphetamine oriented forum looks like, check out Wetdreams or The Zonez and you will see there's quite a difference.

[Edited on 16-6-2008 by SecretSquirrel]

Nicodem - 16-6-2008 at 02:34

I have to agree with SecretSquirrel. It appears the purpose of the Stimulants section at The Hive was to deter the useless members from shitting all over the forum. Since the forum was public and anybody could register, the consequence was the immense influx of tweakers, swims, kewls and wanabeecriminals that would destroy the forum in mater of months if it was not for the defensive role of the Stimulants section. Instead of bothering with them, they themselves removed their presence by being "active" only in the Stimulants section. This allowed the more serious members, beginners included, a more fruitful discussion in most other sections. So, ironically it was because of the Stimulants section that scientific discussion on non-stimulants become possible.

What in my opinion was the major problem of The Hive was the stubborn reluctance to publish results about new compound's research. In a way that was reasonable and understandable since at those time the dreaded "research chemicals" business flourished and by abusing the drug laws made money causing several of the most beautiful compounds to become scheduled (TMA-2 in EU is one such example). The fear was that by posting good results about the new compounds, they would soon be abused for money end end up scheduled. There must have been other reasons as well, but this resulted in the overall degradation of the novel research attitude and pioneer spirit.

MagicJigPipe - 16-6-2008 at 12:02

Well, from what I can tell from the archives, the stimulants section seemed to be the most active. I agree that it is certainly much better than WD but we can't deny the fact that it was indeed one of the most active forums on the site.

It seems like it was kind of like WD but with more of a SM flavor and more broad and in depth selection of topics (than WD).

Am I wrong about that?

SecretSquirrel - 17-6-2008 at 00:41

You can't tell from the archives which forum was the most active, because many threads from other forums are not in the archive. Another reason can be that Tweekers and Swims made a post for any simple and ridiculous question they wanted to ask. That resulted in a large number of threads with very little or no value at all.

So if you look at the amount of information given in other forums (Methods discourse, Novel discourse, Serious chemistry and Tryptamine forum) you'll see that Stimulants forum was expendable...if you're not looking for a place to swim, that is.

MagicJigPipe - 17-6-2008 at 07:00

Well, it is my opinion that, in general, stimulants are the most discussed drug on the internet. I suppose it could be because of the nature of stimulants themselves (people who want to talk about them are already stimulated! ;)).

Even here it seems that the overwhelming majority of threads about drug chemistry has to do with phenethyl(propyl)amine stimulants and their derivatives. I have never understood people's undying fascination with amphetamines and related compounds but, to each his own.

I have just noticed that the average poster who is interested in such things tends to be... How can I put it nicely? Less informed... In fact, that is the main reason why the discussion of these substances has a bad connotation for me. Basically, it seems like mostly kids and burned out younger people that love to talk about stimulants non-stop.

This may be wrong but, in my experience, I found this to be the case. Like you said, they seem to bring down any forum that they flock to and inhabit.

It is because of those people that even when someone comes in that is intelligent and wishes to discuss stimulants on a higher level, I still become slightly irritated. And remember, I have "liberal" views on the "controlled substance" situation.

Panache - 17-6-2008 at 21:25

i like you MagicJigpipe

8)

Panache - 18-6-2008 at 16:39

Quote:
Originally posted by synapse
Invitation is now closed.


SHIT, missed out (snaps fingers and looks upset).
lol can you believe that crap, guess my brain just didn't 'synapse' quickly enough. Thats said it could be not intended to be bitchy just informative; succinct let call it.

Having never really read this 'section', forum matters before, i am finding it hilarious, its like i imagine a girls bathroom at a restaurant is like. Out in the restaurant everyone is nice and civil and laughing at jokes and in here everyone is bitchy and nasty. Its really funny.

synapse - 18-6-2008 at 22:07

Haha. Succinct, yes. Try not to get too worked up about it ; ) .
We had an invitation phase where people were allowed access to the references and other restricted access sections if they were known members from other forums. This is no longer the case, but you can still register (though please do refrain if you wish to complain - hey, that rhymes).

anotheronebitesthedust - 25-6-2008 at 21:47

The Hive was cool because of the amount of people that were registered. It was a very social place filled with all types of people and personalities, ranging from old chemists and young college grads to drug addicts and strippers. I think there was about 3000 users up until the Dateline report when suddenly the numbers went high sky and the forum had to shut down for a few days because the servers couldn't handle the volume.

Every hour there would be hundreds of new posts whereas here at SM things are a lot slower and dull mainly because this forum doesn't allow discussion of drug chemistry, and the Hive was dedicated to the chemistry of mind-altering substances.

woelen - 26-6-2008 at 11:24

What for you may be cool and interesting would be killing the forum for others. If sciencemadness would change into a forum as you describe, with thousands of active members, discussing "mind-altering substances" with hundreds of posts per hour, then I surely would leave the forum. I cannot imagine that all those hundreds of posts per hour have a decent scientific content. Probably only one or two of them.

I'm glad that sciencemadness is what it is now. It is the only internationally oriented chemistry forum with many serious general home chemists, while there are several drugs-related forums out there.

Quantity is not what counts for me. Scientific quality is what I prefer.

[Edited on 26-6-08 by woelen]

S.C. Wack - 26-6-2008 at 16:01

The hundreds of posts an hour is nonsense. There were 15-50 people logged in at any one time. It had fewer members than there are here, mostly lurkers as here, though there was culling of members who hadn't logged in for quite some time. The number of those who posted often in the chem forums was not much higher than here.

It was more than a drug chemistry forum, a point that I keep trying to make and everyone else keeps trying to ignore. You get only a small taste of what people finding references for relevant posts is like here. Many people had a lot of access to all kinds of journal literature, and were enthusiastic in hunting them down.

anotheronebitesthedust - 26-6-2008 at 16:43

Yah. Hundreds an hour was exaggerating. Maybe hundred a day.

MagicJigPipe - 26-6-2008 at 19:56

That would probably annoy the hell out of me. Wading through all of those "BomBxOrs RoxOrz mY BoXorS" posts to get to what is interesting...

If the Hive was even 1% similar to the kind of drug forums that are around now... I don't think I would be willing to, like I said, wade through all the 12-18 year old kid posts.

I know I sound like an old fart but I'm kinda embarrassed to think that I was like some of them back then. Oh well, it happens to everybody.

S.C. Wack - 27-6-2008 at 04:32

The Hive was also very intolerant of idiots and trolls. Their posts would be hidden and downrated.

EDIT: A large version Rhodium archive has also been uploaded, since the hiveboard was also and there was actually some downloads of it, might as well do both. It is similar but not identical to Ionium's psychedelichosting files.

[Edited on 27-6-2008 by S.C. Wack]

MagicJigPipe - 27-6-2008 at 08:05

What is a "troll" again? I know what it "really" is but...

Is it someone that starts fights?

I'm sorry that I have to ask this but I'm so used to this kind of "chest pounding" behavior from former Hive members. Was that statement meant to be a stab at me?

Sorry if it wasn't but... Surely you can understand why I have to ask.

solo - 27-6-2008 at 08:35

..........you catch on fast,

(Insignificant not contributory)

What is a "troll" again? I know what it "really" is but...

Is it someone that starts fights?

I'm sorry that I have to ask this but I'm so used to this kind of "chest pounding" behavior from former Hive members. Was that statement meant to be a stab at me?

Sorry if it wasn't but... Surely you can understand why I have to ask.

brew - 27-6-2008 at 21:27

Quote:
Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust


Every hour there would be hundreds of new posts whereas here at SM things are a lot slower and dull mainly because this forum doesn't allow discussion of drug chemistry, and the Hive was dedicated to the chemistry of mind-altering substances.


I am not trying to be pedantic, but as a newbie to this forum, I have noted how actual discussions relating to drug chemistry are allowed here at SM. Recipe swopping for the benifit of increased yields and using acronyms to name compounds, and of course the use of various water sporting titles are not. This is something I am pleased about here at SM.

MagicJigPipe - 29-6-2008 at 20:34

Quote:

(Insignificant not contributory)


Like internet forum jargon? How ironic.

[Edited on 6-29-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

Nicodem - 30-6-2008 at 04:44

Please! All involved, this thread is already 12 pages long! Lots of stuff about the ex-Hive was already said that might or might not be interesting to its ex-members, but I find it extremely annoying when this thread is being used for completely pointless personal "discussions" that have no other function but post whoring and general time wasting.
So, do not post unless you have anything important to add on the topic that is of general interest!
You are free of not to do so, but in such case I will also use my freedom and remove what I consider is against the above guideline.

Old Times

DpHarma - 3-10-2008 at 20:41

As an early member I have many fond memories of the comraderie of a small group of co-researchers. There was a catalytic activity , a synergy, which spurred us all to reach for the stars.

I Having virtually no organic chem background, and only a CRC reference, a gift from a University librarian, the group fed a growing appetite for knowledge.

When Spiceboy came up with the idea of shaking a 2 liter coke bottle til our arms fell off, I knew I was in the midst of a transformative event, kind of like San Francisco's "Summer of Love". (which I enjoyed from a great distance). There was something 'honest' about having arms which throbbed with pain.

The night I posted my first honey success, and earned my wings was the first time I had ever really belonged to anything, and though I was hardly a chemist, I felt accepted.

Bright Star was the one person I ever felt a deep personal bond with and only he will know why.

Towards the end of my tenure, (late 2000), the influx of the immoral, money hungry, mass producers changed the whole tone of the place. There was no longer the atmosphere of love and peace which marked the earlier years. Greed, defilement and disgusting self-centeredness drove me off and I suspect the others who had true psychonautic leanings.
Originally "E" was considered an "EnTheogen", ie a material to awaken an awarness of divine principles.
When I turned the page on that chapter of my life (clean and straight 7 years now), it had become more about violating innocence than being such.

I watched the same thing happen in the period from 1967 to 1972. Once loving and sensitive people who only wanted to share beauty became ruthless and greedy pushers. Guns began to appear and ripoffs, burns and other deadly games took over. This corresponded to the appearance of MDA, and "H" on the scene. We seem to lack the ability to handle the stresses of altered states without degeneration. At least it was true for me.

In the end I turned to a faith in God, which was central to my quest in the beginning, smashed thousands of dollars of glassware, burned precursors, and cleaned up my life. I bear no judgements of any who honestly enjoy psychedelics, but to the ones who seek to destroy and defile I say to hell with you!

It was interesting to find this forum. Also to read of former hive members (I googled that line).

May it be well with you.

DpHarma
(the original and only true da' pHarma)

kclo4 - 3-10-2008 at 21:30

Quote:
.. smashed thousands of dollars of glassware...


why on gods earth would you smash it?

benzal - 4-10-2008 at 09:29

glassware murderer!

DpHarma - 4-10-2008 at 09:51

Simple Kc

I saw myself becoming what I so despised in many others. I could not reconcile these forces.

Many attempts to hold on to my own values while continuing to 'research' failed and whatever was dragging me down was winning. I acted in a desparate move to save my soul if you will. The perceived 'vaule' of the objects no longer meant anything to me. I needed to escape the gravitational pull of the black hole I had become entangled in.
It really doesn't matter to me if you understand this, I know what I was going through and I knew what I had to do. btw no one knew of my struggle, no one influenced me. I sought the way out I needed and it has proven to be the right one "FOR ME"!.

Please be clear.
I acted for my own sanity and freedom.

I now have what I wanted all along. An intimate relationship with "God", which satisfies all my desires.
Do I miss the 'adventures' of the past? Of course I do, in the same way one might fondly remember an ocean voyage which ended with the ship sinking and clinging to a life preserver for days before being picked up by a fishing boat and brought to shore. Solid ground was never before so precious.

I only posted here because the time this thread refers to was special and inportant in my life. There WAS a fabric of empathy which bound many of us together. Randolph Carter and I shared some amazing sories, even though we were worlds apart in our 'real' lives. There was something 'spiritual' in our common search. That's what caused me to realize that what "I" was really looking for could not be made in a lab, or swalled in a capsule.

I wanted an experience that was not toxic, available every single hour of every single day, and had no come-down. I wanted what Timothy Leary encouraged his crowd of followers to do. To go beyond drugs. (Which he himself never managed to do).
I have done it and while it was anything but easy, seeing as how drugs played a central role in my life for over 45 years, I am for the very first time in my life completely content in my own skin.

This is why the glassware meant nothing, other then a 'siren song' to take up cooking again and forsake the quest for peace I had embarked on.

Now in my sixties, I have a sense of having made the greatest scientific discovery of all. I have discovered the thing I was searching for was always right here.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just laying down my trip. It's been a gas.

The Hive played an integral part in my journey.

If I had not been able to obtain an unlimited supply of "E" of known purity, I would never have been able to plumb it's depth's and determine it's limits. There would have remained in my mind a sense that if "I just had done a bit more:. I would have broken through.

There is no "other side" which can be reached through drugs, IMHO. Only more and more illusions. I am satisfied my 'research' was thorough enough to allow me to settle the question and fully embrace what I always knw was true but chose to set aside because of culture and predjudice.

I now live in what the Bible calls "The Mind of Christ". It is the state of being which all psychedelics attempt to emulate. The empathy I craved is a permanant experience. There is no place for defilement, no need to destroy.
It is a connection to reality I had only dreamed of, or glimpsed in fleeting moments while tripping.

In your mind I am probably insane. I suspect more than a few who have stumbled upon this Way have been labled as such.
On drugs, I fantasized powers and forces. Today I weild incredible power, but under the benevolent direction of the Source of all power.

Bob Dylan wrote "Your'e gonna have to serve somebody, It may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but your'e gonna have to serve somebody".

The answer to your apt question "why on gods earth would you smash it? " is simple it's because it IS God's earth, and I BELONG TO HIM!

Be well, know peace

In Love and Truth

DpHarma

Sauron - 4-10-2008 at 09:53

Okay, 12 pages of almost unvaried nostalgia for the lost Eden rolled into Camelot and Utopia that was The Hive by all accounts. Quoth the raven, Nevermore!

I have not seen the original interrogative of the thread addressed. Can someone state clearly and succinctly what happened to Paradise Lost? Was there a serpent and a fruit of the knowledge of good and evil tree? Did an angel with a flaming sword drive the Bees out of the apiary?

Inquiring minds want to know!

(sorry if the irreverence ranckles. I am often irreverent and in this instance I see nothing to be reverent about. It was a forum not a shrine. It's long gone. Get over it.)


[Edited on 5-10-2008 by Sauron]

DpHarma - 4-10-2008 at 10:40

Sauron

I think the answer is in the facts I related about the original 'spirit' being corrupted by greed and lust for power and by the intent of your sig.

"an overgrowth of 'varosa mites' due to the shortage of Formic acid resulting from excessive diversion".

A failure to wipe out the immoral rot which accompanies a sense of personal omnipotence.

too many 'good' men did nothing. Those who's hearts had a higher purpose in the beginning just left.
I tried to 'seed' a spritual revolution and the 'dark side' censored my posts and shut me out.

there is such a thing as Prime Evil.

Dp

Sauron - 4-10-2008 at 10:57

Sadly, twas ever thus. Sic transit gloria mundi.

DpHarma - 4-10-2008 at 11:12

"The memory of my ashes
Will consolation be;
Then farewell Tuscarora,
And farewell, Sir, to thee!"

Amen

Dp

Sauron - 4-10-2008 at 11:27

Sounds like The Hive ran smack into human nature.

A well known Bangkok columnist, now retired, used to call it huMAN natURE (MANURE).

DpHarma - 4-10-2008 at 11:49

the fruit, the lie, the shame, the sword

all prelude to the coming Word

Awaken passions only heard by ears of desperation

For beginning sure implies an end and if it is then time well spent

To taste the pure sweet milk of friendship of life laid down for brother

Quixotic paths have long been trod by creatures searching for their God

and failing quest have fallen back to sodden sullen muck

and in the mire have found their use, as fodder for the grasses

For destiny rests not in man, nor in the plunder with his hand

of sacred fire preserved for when He who lit it does release it.

Shall mud be fashioned into form by inklings of a rising dawn?

or pottery once smashed forlorn be still again assembled?

Nay, only the wheel in Potter's hand can spin again the shape of man

and from the muck reveal His plan

a chastened worthy vessel

DpHarma

DNA - 5-10-2008 at 23:15

I'm also a former hive member, there I was known as icecool and absolutely unexperienced there I started to learn about synthesizing phenethylamines.
I don't know if Indole_Amine is around here but at least he is the guy that taught me everything I needed to know until I made my first PEA. And when I smelled the great smell of the freebase.
He is a person I would really like to thank, haven't seen him by e-mail for long time...
Probably no one will remember me from the hive but maybe they do from synthetikal.

Jacked_is_out - 30-5-2009 at 04:43

I just got out of federal prison.. an am looking for old Hive Bees, Just to say hay.. You Remember the UH? Underground Hive. I'm the founder.. Jacked.. I tried to log on with my old user name but it said it was taken. I cant imagine anyone running around with my history... Any how, Hell yea I remember the hive!
I know,, Insignificant not contributory... Well, lets see, This place seems like its got its shit together. I'm way out of date and only practice the craft in my dreams.. The Hive is where some of us got started in the trade craft. We look back in fondness remembering old times and BIG BALLS Moves. I personally made a lot of friends that I still communicate with. Some I've lost touch with and only hope they have had a better run that I had and are doing good.. I might not have much to share in the chemistry forums but I do have legal experience that most do not.. I still have something to contribute that is not insignificant if you find yourself caught up deep in the game..
I'm sure this is not the right forum to talk about this.. I've got a lot of reading to do :) The Hive lives inside its members. No one can take that from us. Not even the government.

[Edited on 30-5-2009 by Jacked_is_out]

Vogelzang - 11-7-2009 at 15:12

Mr. Huson is out.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=Nam...

Vogelzang - 19-7-2009 at 04:28

Some archived hive pages.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010719132601/http://www.the-hiv...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724173701/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010902094749/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724172718/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20040426021503/http://www.the-hiv...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010822142811/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010822142720/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724175028/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724180415/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724180556/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724172159/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724174208/http://www.the-hiv...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724180027/www.the-hive.ws/fo...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010724174023/http://www.the-hiv...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010822144046/www.the-hive.ws/fo...


WizardX - 19-7-2009 at 18:28

Quote: Originally posted by Nicodem  
Please! All involved, this thread is already 12 pages long! Lots of stuff about the ex-Hive was already said that might or might not be interesting to its ex-members, but I find it extremely annoying when this thread is being used for completely pointless personal "discussions" that have no other function but post whoring and general time wasting.
So, do not post unless you have anything important to add on the topic that is of general interest!
You are free of not to do so, but in such case I will also use my freedom and remove what I consider is against the above guideline.


I concur! The Hive is offline and WILL remain such.

FlashDelirium - 23-11-2013 at 09:42

Now that we're in 2013, can anyone recommend the best substitutes for the-hive.ws?

jock88 - 30-11-2013 at 13:45


The vespiary

solo - 24-2-2015 at 15:32

Quote: Originally posted by jock88  

The vespiary



.....bad choice, since the moderators were removed, including myself and other well respected bee elders, it's become an newbee haven and a place were they've plagiarised hive posts in order to get more members and donations.....a sad day for others work and effort.......solo/java

"The Hive lives inside its members. No one can take that from us. Not even the government. "......Jacked

leu - 23-9-2015 at 04:55

The original Hive is finally now available in read only format:

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/

as was stated by Lili went it went offline in 2004 :D More information concerning this can be found at:

https://archive.erowid.org/

Lilienthal has posted this in:

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=63...

The end results from the effort applied :cool:





[Edited on 23-9-2015 by leu]

ErgoloidMesylate - 14-5-2023 at 20:44

Quote: Originally posted by Sauron  
Okay, 12 pages of almost unvaried nostalgia for the lost Eden rolled into Camelot and Utopia that was The Hive by all accounts. Quoth the raven, Nevermore!

I have not seen the original interrogative of the thread addressed. Can someone state clearly and succinctly what happened to Paradise Lost? Was there a serpent and a fruit of the knowledge of good and evil tree? Did an angel with a flaming sword drive the Bees out of the apiary?

Inquiring minds want to know!

(sorry if the irreverence ranckles. I am often irreverent and in this instance I see nothing to be reverent about. It was a forum not a shrine. It's long gone. Get over it.)


[Edited on 5-10-2008 by Sauron]


Alright but you may not like it.

The rumors swirling at the time was that rhodium was a fed.
Due to public perception, after what had happened with strike, they did not want it to come out that the DEA was running the largest drug synthesis at the time on the net.

If you look at the silk road case, 2 feds were running the place for more than a year. Coercing mods to work with them or they would arrest them and assume their identities in addition to using sockpuppets.

here is the appeal where the govt admits it:

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-2nd-circuit/1862572.htm...

j_sum1 - 15-5-2023 at 05:41

@EM
I don't know why you are digging up 15 year old posts to promote your own conspiracy theories.
One thing is certain, you are not accurately reading the mood or intent of this board. Nor are you fairly characterising the mods or members here.
You might actually be better off spending your time at one of the many online communities that better reflect your interests. This place is for amateur chemists and nerds with a bent for science.
At the moment your dribble is tedious.

/Mod comment

ErgoloidMesylate - 15-5-2023 at 10:33

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
@EM
I don't know why you are digging up 15 year old posts to promote your own conspiracy theories.

At the moment your dribble is tedious.

/Mod comment


I am sorry there were people at the time claiming they were govt helpers who would drop tidbits onto usenet at various forums.

Facts are, as i posted the govt sometimes actively infiltrates websites with their people. Accept reality.

I have had PMs to me in private where posters here are indeed warning me about this forum.

The govt doing things is not a conspiracy, but guaranteed fact.

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