Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Chem Run, AN questions

PyroRA - 27-6-2008 at 15:21

I did a chem and tool run today for my pyro stuff, got a nice 80 g of kno3 for 4$ got a 5/8s inch dowel rod for ramming, some matches, pingpong balls and heres the kicker, ABOUT 400 G OF AMMONIUM NITRATE, at 4 bucks, I got a 4 dollar twin pack jumbo instant cold compress, and buy one get one free, now my problem is, I am finding it useless as a replacement for KNO3 though I have 390 g of the crap, could someone please inform me what it IS good for? and the methods of preparation in pyrotechnic compositions, and any other general uses, when I use the stuff and I manage to light it, it just fizzes and smolders very slowly, so I don`t know, help me out here I am a bit of a kewl on this. and CAN YOU PUT IT IN A COFFEE GRINDER

P.S. (I havent tried flashpowder, I wont be getting any suitable metal powders/dusts/flakes, for a few more days.)

Also bit of a bragging announcement, me and my brother made our first ever rocket using hodgons fg smokeless powder, it went up 8 feet, stalled out, and the nozzle broke when it hit the ground, it was a flare for 45 seconds then, then it cooled down, it was too heavy, we used thick pvc tubing instead of paper, but my bro wouldn't listen too me when I told him we should use paper (he liked the pvc for its structure)

Thx in advance to those who try and help me out and answer my questions, you guys are a great online community

P.P.S. is the AN I got impure, or low grade, like I said it came from a instant cold pack,

bereal511 - 27-6-2008 at 15:36

Are you certain it's ammonium nitrate? It could just well be urea as both are used in cold packs. If you want to figure out which is which, dissolve a small amount of your powder in solution and use some kind of pH indicator, maybe even red cabbage juice to see a color change. If it's acidic, you have ammonium nitrate. If it's neutral, you have urea.

On a side note, if you ever do get your hands on ammonium nitrate, NEVER EVER PUT IT IN THE COFFEE GRINDER! You'll probably blow off your hand.

Not to be a hard-ass though, but I find questions about rocketry and pyrotechnics better suited for the Amateur Pyrotechnics and Chemistry Forum (http://www.apcforum.net). Here, everyone is a little more focused on the chemistry fundamentals behind processes, rather than the "ooh, ahh" pseudo-chemistry of fireworks.

[Edited on 27-6-2008 by bereal511]

Zinc - 27-6-2008 at 16:12

I think that it is safe to put pure AN in a coffee grinder. I did it many times with no problems.

497 - 27-6-2008 at 18:21

I got 22,000 grams of ammonium nitrate, potassium nitrate, and calcium nitrate for $20 each...

If you want to use up your KNO3, mix it 50/50 with sugar and heat it slowly with stirring until it melts and pour it into some tinfoil and light it with fuse or torch. Makes a pretty decent smoke bomb.

And yes you can put AN in a coffee grinder, you can even smack it with a hammer all day long, it is extremely insensitive.

Also if your nitrate salts aren't dry the pyrotechnics you make with them will usually be useless.

This should be in beginnings or misc.

PyroRA - 28-6-2008 at 05:08

Yeah AN is hygroscopic, It might be that, are there any other ways I could find if its urea? And sorry bout the wrong place to put this, I meant for virtually ALL chemistry, what can I use this for if its useless in pyrotechnics, also I made NEGATIVE X with it, and it worked, are you sure it might be urea?

and CAN I PUT IT IN A COFFEE GRINDER OR NOT?

Lol please guys help me out

Oh, and 497, WHERE WHERE WHERE!!!!!!!!!

Also the APC forum is mostly people who just buy actual fireworks rather than make them, I checked that place out and its mostly just people showing off their dangerous garage/trailer/basement stash of stuff from phantom

The instant cold bag, the pouch inside it seemed to be sweating? wtf is that it? if its wet how do I safely dry it?

[Edited on 28-6-2008 by PyroRA]
btw anyone know a good way to powder nitrocellulose?

[Edited on 28-6-2008 by PyroRA]

12AX7 - 28-6-2008 at 06:49

Quote:
Originally posted by PyroRA
when I use the stuff and I manage to light it, it just fizzes and smolders very slowly


If it burns at all (i.e. it is acting as an oxidizer), it must be AN and not urea. AN has a lot less oxygen than KN and other oxidizers and a direct substitution will do little more than smoulder.
Quote:
Originally posted by PyroRA
Yeah AN is hygroscopic, It might be that, are there any other ways I could find if its urea?


Does it taste like pee? Urine is 1% urea and little else. AN will taste like something else, salty I suppose.
Quote:
and CAN I PUT IT IN A COFFEE GRINDER OR NOT?


YES!
Quote:
The instant cold bag, the pouch inside it seemed to be sweating? wtf is that it? if its wet how do I safely dry it?


Someone say hygroscopic?

Tim

grndpndr - 28-6-2008 at 07:57

Hygroscopic,very,t will eadily absorb humidity from the atmosphere and yes Ive "seen' AN powdered i coffeee grinder ad nauseum.AN is extremely insenitive, the problem comes when attempting to detonate AN /w-o senstizers.I,possible to detonat w/o sensitizrs with a normal BC unless confined in a strong container

dont know about substitutions for nitratios the only one ive seen was an OTC method of Urea nitrate synthesis that used AN and muriatic acid On this very site if I recall.Sure enough,contributed by anonymous posted 'polverone' as "Anonymous provides useful Urea Nitrate method"
I dont know when thiswas posted but Polverone had 1074 post a the time which may give a clue as to date of synthesis posting.I have it but I was under the impression posting/exchaging synthesis was frowned on.One use among many I cuold think of,besides AN seems far to precious these days even compared to nitric acid of 65%-70%.Sme cold packs list ingredients some dont?PH paper and it seems AN s much whiter prills with urea a deffinet off white prill FWIW.

[Edited on 28-6-2008 by grndpndr]

PyroRA - 28-6-2008 at 10:38

(sorry for bad punctuation i acquired a gimp hand) I posteD a thread on red P and got no useful info, so I didnt heed the warning about a death wish

I tried this mix
50 AN
20RED P
30 ALU
i got 2 blisters on my right hand one top segment of middle finger 3 cm long and a cm wide, bout a cm tall, and one on side of thumb 4cm long half a cm tall, i have to keep R hand in bag of cold aloe juice, im not blamin anyone but COME ON! you can atleast give me some info before locking my thread, i couldnt find a simple thread with the info i needed

btw i made only 500 mg

lol, kewl moment (deherrurrerr-incoherent clopping noise*-herr)
so thats that and im never making flash powder again and im never using red P to substitute sulfur just cus my oxidiser need be more sensitive

grndpndr - 17-12-2008 at 17:54

Also excuse my spelling and generaly poor english skills.Nothings broken other than my keyboard has an affinity
for cappuchino and resulting problems with mixing electronics
with a thick coffe and suger laden beverage with electrical circuits. No excse fr oy replacing offeding keyboard oter than a fixed income due to service connected va Disability $
flow problems.Sorry!:( Pyroteck? used to carry AN as well as many other interesting chemicals.PETN precursor whose name I forget until the owner was jailed! Since then... havent aeen any such animals for sale OT a few OZ's in cold packs and no pentaerthrytol?spelling.:o

[Edited on 17-12-2008 by grndpndr]

[Edited on 17-12-2008 by grndpndr]