Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Going thru chemically induced withdrawels...

evil_lurker - 2-8-2008 at 16:56

In more than one way... first it seems I ain't done a reaction since around Mayish. Its just too freaking hot outside. And I'm not sure but I think there may be a possible LE agent watching my abode so I decided it wise to get everything cleaned up and mothballed for the time being.

Second, I'm quitting smoking. Taking Chantix. It helps with the cravings but it still sucks... over the course of 4 days I've managed to cut my habit in half quantity wise and downgrade to ultra-light smokes without too much discomfort. But its still "blech". Quitting smoking sucks any way you go about it. I'll be glad when I get the full dose going in another couple days and then it'll be bye bye nicotine.

I guess other than that life is good. I'm looking forward to getting some more benzaldehyde research done later on this fall. I might even build me a big arse MAA reactor now that I found cheap 93% technical grade H2SO4 by the drum locally.

Anyhoos. End of boredom induced rant.

kclo4 - 2-8-2008 at 17:50

Well hello! I'm glad you are cutting the habit!
What is a MAA reactor? I'm guessing something that produces methacrylic acid? Or does MAA stand for another chemical as well?

Magpie - 2-8-2008 at 18:18

Evil, I realize everyone is different but I found that the best way to quit smoking was just to stop. It's a severe mental challenge and you have to be determined. I quit when I was 20 years old. I had dreams about smoking for at least another 10 years.

Not performing a reaction for several months is cruel and unusual for a chemist.

Why do you think LE is watching you?

sparkgap - 2-8-2008 at 22:39

You have heard of varenicline's supposed penchant for inducing depression in certain individuals? http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/20/magazines/fortune/simons_smo...

I had high hopes for the drug if it actually worked well, but depression seems to be too high a price to pay.

sparky (~_~)

evil_lurker - 3-8-2008 at 05:19

Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie
Evil, I realize everyone is different but I found that the best way to quit smoking was just to stop. It's a severe mental challenge and you have to be determined. I quit when I was 20 years old. I had dreams about smoking for at least another 10 years.

Not performing a reaction for several months is cruel and unusual for a chemist.

Why do you think LE is watching you?


It seems there is a particular full size truck with tinted windows driving my my residence and turning around several times per day.

When I peep out the window, he looks at the house. When he sees me outside, he doesn't look.

No visible antennas for police radios, local tags. Person inside looks to be a man of 40-50 years old. Drive-bys ususally occur between 7-8AM, around 11, then once or twice more around 4-5PM.

Very odd indeed. I mean, why would anyone be driving a full size gas hog truck around unless they have some purpose?

I have been debating on following this guy just to see where he ends up.

JeffAMX - 3-8-2008 at 16:56

*withdrawals

Twospoons - 3-8-2008 at 17:06

Quote:
Originally posted by evil_lurker

I have been debating on following this guy just to see where he ends up.


Why not just report him to the cops for 'suspicious activity' - tell them you think the guy is looking to break into houses in your street or something. Could be good for a laugh.
If he is some kind of agent, its going to look bad for you if you tail him.

kclo4 - 3-8-2008 at 17:20

Quote:
Originally posted by JeffAMX
*withdrawals


Why did you do this?

DJF90 - 3-8-2008 at 17:29

He is correcting evil_lurkers spelling...

[Edited on 4-8-2008 by DJF90]

Magpie - 3-8-2008 at 18:59

Evil, what kind of a truck is this? Is it like a delivery truck where someone could be set up with surveillance equipment? I wouldn't want somebody surveiling me, but I can't help but think of the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and his boss Charlton Heston where the surveiling agents have such a truck/van. I remember that the woman under surveillance knocks on the van door and offers the agents some lemonade. Then later Heston accuses the agents of "screwing the pooch," my favorite line as it seems so out of character for Moses (Heston.)

On more recollection the woman was Jamie Lee Curtis and the above line was my second favorite.

[Edited on 3-8-2008 by Magpie]

[Edited on 3-8-2008 by Magpie]

[Edited on 3-8-2008 by Magpie]

dapper - 6-8-2008 at 15:36

I'm a firm believer in the "If they were watching, you'd never see them" philosophy. Everything mothballed, if you know about them they probably don't have the resources to give you any trouble.

Jdurg - 7-8-2008 at 18:30

Quote:
Originally posted by sparkgap
You have heard of varenicline's supposed penchant for inducing depression in certain individuals? http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/20/magazines/fortune/simons_smo...

I had high hopes for the drug if it actually worked well, but depression seems to be too high a price to pay.

sparky (~_~)


Those reports are still under heavy scrutiny. The problem with Chantix is that too many people are using it who shouldn't be. Chantix was designed as a "last resort" smoking cessation product when all other forms of quitting have not worked. In addition, it is not intended to be a miracle pill to suddenly make you quit smoking. It is just designed to lower your cravings and perceived "need" for nicotine.

The rates of depressive events and odd dreams is actually no higher in patients taking Chantix than in those on Placebo if you read through the published trials. The problems that are commonly being seen can't be directly linked to Chantix due to other events taking place in those subjects. Drinking, family stress, work stress, etc. are all contributing factors to depressed states of mind. Quitting smoking alone is a very depressive and mentally tough thing to do.

There are currently too many clinical trials going on involving Chantix to count. A lot of these are the result of the FDA's decision and involve the psychological effects.

The FDA is doing what they need to do and warning the public about potential adverse events. Sadly, in a lot of cases they are more political than scientific and if someone whines loud enough they'll state something regardless of the truth.

I can't really speak any more about this for various reasons, but what I can say is to keep your doctor informed of anything that's not "normal" in your mind and stick with the quitting smoking. The effects of smoking cigarettes are far more damaging and deadly to you than anything Chantix could possibly do in a worst case scenario.

Panache - 11-8-2008 at 02:42

my dear deceased mother told me that in hungry before the war when people wanted to quit smoking they would finely push a horse tail hair up into one cigarette in a packet. Not knowing which cigarette it was, the smoker would invariably drag deeply upon the horse hair one at some unexpected time. Apparently it makes one violently ill and nauseous for a considerable time.
The effect is to associate smoking with the nausea, coughing etc. Apparently it never takes more than two cigarettes.
Having never been a smoker i am obviously naive to the difficulties in countering the addiction but i always liked this idea. No-one i know has ever tried it and i can't understand why given it seems so simple.

ShadowWarrior4444 - 11-8-2008 at 02:52

Quote:
Originally posted by Panache
my dear deceased mother told me that in hungry before the war when people wanted to quit smoking they would finely push a horse tail hair up into one cigarette in a packet. Not knowing which cigarette it was, the smoker would invariably drag deeply upon the horse hair one at some unexpected time. Apparently it makes one violently ill and nauseous for a considerable time.
The effect is to associate smoking with the nausea, coughing etc. Apparently it never takes more than two cigarettes.
Having never been a smoker i am obviously naive to the difficulties in countering the addiction but i always liked this idea. No-one i know has ever tried it and i can't understand why given it seems so simple.


This is based on the same principles used by some people to quit smoking today--aversion conditioning.

Some take pills that make the cigarette taste horrible. It generally needs to be a direct relationship, and the aversive effects should take place immediately. There are likely many other ways of bringing about the same effect.

woelen - 11-8-2008 at 05:30

Another method I have heard of is adding a small amount (a few pinches of powder on the tip of a small knive) of NaHCO3 to the tobacco. Mix the powder very well and then use this treated tobacco for rolling the cigarettes. It seems to make the cigarettes taste less attractive and when this is done all the time, it slowly takes away the pleasure of smoking. It is not as drastic as the horse tail hair, but its long term effect seems to be quite good for many people. But as with the horse tail hair method, I have no personal experience (I do not smoke at all).

evil_lurker - 11-8-2008 at 08:58

Update:

Haven't had a cig since the 5th. Withdrawels were pretty bad on the 6th, but I decided to quit two days early and wasn't on the full 2mg per day dose. Things were better on the 7th. I still have cravings but they usually last less than a minute and are much more managable to deal with.

So far the stuff is working pretty good. I have a bit of nausea after taking a 1mg pill, but that lasts 30 minutes to an hour or so. It helps quite a bit to have something on my stomach before taking the pill.

chloric1 - 11-8-2008 at 15:37

I quit smoking in 1999 and I still have dreams of smoking but since about 2006 they are extrememly rare and they involve shame and embarrassment. I wake up relieved that I did not actually smoke.

Quote:

This is based on the same principles used by some people to quit smoking today--aversion conditioning.


My aversion training was running to exhaustion in early December with near freezing temperatures IMMEDIATELY followed by hotboxing 4 cigarettes consecutively in about 5 to 10 minutes. I made my self miserable 3 or 4 times and finally quit.

[Edited on 8/11/2008 by chloric1]

Panache - 12-8-2008 at 05:21

Quote:
Originally posted by chloric1

My aversion training was running to exhaustion in early December with near freezing temperatures IMMEDIATELY followed by hotboxing 4 cigarettes consecutively in about 5 to 10 minutes. I made my self miserable 3 or 4 times and finally quit.



As a smoker you wouldn't have had to run far to become exhausted!!
I take it 'hotboxing' is a method for smoking quickly. I guess a simpler version of aversion therapy would be to stab yourself in the arm with a compass every-time you have a cigarette, however if you possess this level of discipline you are not likely to need a hand quitting smoking.

Phosphor-ing - 12-8-2008 at 05:29

I quit 1/01/00. Cravings gone completely by 2001. Congrats evil_lurker !!! It gets nothing but easier after 3-5 days, after 30 it's all in your head!

[Edited on 12-8-2008 by Phosphor-ing]

grndpndr - 20-11-2008 at 15:30

Ive begun chantix as well except to late as ive been diagnosed wth COPD.Smoking, enviromental factors possibly silicosis produced from ground concrete dust,Work in a plate shop exposure to acid vapors including but not limited to sulphuric /nitric,muriatic acids.Unknown Oil field chemicals,all w/o benefit of respirators(before the age of required respirators). At any rate id much prefer some temp depression than death from slow suffocation.Good luck quitting before the damage becomes a disease.:(



[Edited on 20-11-2008 by grndpndr]

evil_lurker - 20-11-2008 at 19:17

Well, its now been about 107 days of being quit off of any tobacco or nicotine. Its gotten to where I can half ass be around smokers and not be all like "damn I need a cig" to "damn that sure would be nice". Cravings only last about 30 seconds tops usually.

My stalker finally hung it up about a three or four weeks ago. Ain't seen him since. Perhaps he has moved on to greener pastures. Don't know, don't really care.

chemrox - 20-11-2008 at 20:59

Hey evil, did you consider this was a paranoid reaction to chantix? Or do you own large collections of jewelry and artwork? Or a methamphetamine factory? How are you my friend? Feeling better? Do you breathe better? Cough gone? Excercising now? Food taste better? Women taste better? May I suggest buying a motorcycle? Anything but a Harley that is.. Hey man, good for you, congratulations! Tobacco is a hard one.

evil_lurker - 20-11-2008 at 22:40

Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
Hey evil, did you consider this was a paranoid reaction to chantix?

Nah... my stalker was at it from about June to late Sept... long before I started the Chantix.

Or do you own large collections of jewelry and artwork?

One again no. I have absolutely no taste in art and I would rather blow my cash on toys than bling.

Or a methamphetamine factory?

Almost. Gotta get the bugs worked outta my BnH synth and scale up to liter sized runs.

How are you my friend? Feeling better?

Well honestly after quitting smoking I was quite irritable. The chantix helped immensely, and gave me a bit of appetite control. I only stayed on it for 30 days and I was starting to get issues so I went to the shrink trying to get some xanax or other benzodiazapine. I'm the type of person when they get wound up they have a hard time un-winding. If I can nip things in the but with say a .25 or a .5 of zanny I'm cool.

But you know how shrinks are. Damn if they even think there is the possibility that you have ever abused any drug they won't give them to you. Bastards. I guess I just need to go kill someone or drive thru the side of their building.

First round was Zoloft and Buspar. Didn't work. The zoloft made my jaw clamp up along with a bad case of akathesia. I'd lay down to go to bed at night and flop like a fish. My mood improved some though, but I really didn't like it. The buspar didn't work. I need something for when someone pisses in my cheerios that works "right now". All in all I think it threw me into a mixed manic state.

Round #2 consisted of hydroxyine and respiridone. Even at small doses that shit knocked me on my ass... after a few days I could not function, period.

Round #3 which I'm on now is wellbutrin. Not as fun as amphetamines but it definately got me up and moving. Been on it two days now and got more cleaning done than in the last two months. Plus I only ate dinner and managed to skip eating all day without too much discomfort. Oh, yeah, and horny as a damn goat. NIIIICE is all I can say.

Do you breathe better? Cough gone? Excercising now?

Actually one of the reasons I quit was because here I am in my early 30's and was having difficulty maintaining an erection. My blood pressure was getting into borderline hypertension territory, and it seemed as I was short of breath a lot.

Now I can breath a whole hell of a lot better, I don't cough, and my heartburn is gone. My cock works as good as it did in my early 20's. Still not exercising because of crazy med rounds #1 and #2 but if this wellbutrin shit works I might just have to take it up.

Food taste better? Women taste better?

Yeah food tastes much better. And you get your sense of smell back. Ain't got a GF at the moment so no tasting women yet.

May I suggest buying a motorcycle? Anything but a Harley that is.. Hey man, good for you, congratulations!

Check. Three weeks ago when I was going thru my little manic phase. Found a Honda shadow spirit 750 sitting on the side of the road, got a decent deal on it and took it home. Now I get to help its testicles descend after honda de-balled the motor.

Tobacco is a hard one.

Yup its a bitch. Unlike other drugs its very easy to get and be around others that are doing it... that makes it really hard. All it takes is just one cig and your back to square one.




[Edited on 21-11-2008 by evil_lurker]

MagicJigPipe - 25-11-2008 at 23:05

How long does it take to develop a cough from smoking? I've been smoking for about 5 years and I haven't had a cough in over 1.5 years.

Is it something that some get and others don't or is it just too soon?

BTW, the only noticeable negative side affect I've had so far is... well, nothing really. Except for maybe slight yellowing of teeth.

I'm going to try quitting during Christmas break. I'm going to start poking holes in my cigarettes (that's one way ultra-lights are made; if you don't believe me just look, they have holes poked around them; also, they used to make these devices that would poke the holes for you to help you quit smoking; I haven't seen one in years, I guess they just don't want you to quit). Then I'm going to smoke one less each day...

You know what the best way to quit is? Be poor. I got the closest to quitting the three weeks after I lost my job a few years back.

DrP - 26-11-2008 at 02:56

Actually MJP - You would find that about a week after you give up smoking, you get a cough for little while. This is because the scillia hairs on the way to your lungs start to grow back and start to clear your lungs out. Quite common when people quit. Only lasts a short time though.

domaani - 5-12-2008 at 23:11

I haven't walked into a bar for a year or so, and it's more than three months from having the last smoke (I've smoked for five years). Why?

I've spent it all on laboratory equipment and chemicals :D

Congratulations On Quitting !

MadHatter - 6-12-2008 at 20:37

I have no choice but to quit now. I was recently diagnosed with early stages of emphysema.
It can only get worse. Admittedly I've smoked for 33 years but I did manage to cut down to
less then 1/2 pack(10 smokes) a day. It'll be tough but I saw my mother die an excruciating
death from emphysema with complications from stroke. I don't want to leave this world that
way.

evil_lurker - 6-12-2008 at 21:14

Get yourself some Chantix. Its probably the best $120 or so that I have ever spent.

Start taking it and when its time to increase your dose start cleaning your house. Get rid of all cigs, ashtrays, lighters. Vacuum or steam clean the carpets. Try and get of all sights and smells that can trigger a craving attack.

I'm now 4 months quit and haven't felt this good in a long time. I can go all day without thinking about smoking and I am no longer having cravings albeit for a the odd one now and again that pops into my head. But those are usually the "man it would be nice to have a cig" type of cravings...sorta like the same way you crave a drink on a hot day. Nothing unbearable and they are gone usually within a minute tops.

chochu3 - 6-12-2008 at 21:24

When I read the title I thought they were talking of chemical dependance as of drug dependance. Faith in God asking and being humbled will help if someone is like this. I was chemicially dependent on opiates and methadone for two years. In being I have done the stuipidiest stuff that shames my family and I. Anyway I know what it feels like not to do a chemical reaction in a while. In my addiction I did no chemistry at all, but just stayed high all the time. It not fun when your not doing the things you love. Anyway:

Keeps these words:
Fool me once shame on you;
Fool me twice shame on me.

For anybody who needs a little guidance.

grndpndr - 18-12-2008 at 00:44

Mad Hatter,Dont feel alone I was recently diagnosed with COPD(32 yrs smokin) which is an upleasant thought considering the method
of death. Chantix may cause some depression but probably not eqaul to the thought of drowning in ones own body fluids.

So if a little depression is all preventing you guys quitting by all means quit!Please! Its nice getting up in the morning not suffcating! Id like to know what thats LIke for a change!

[Edited on 18-12-2008 by grndpndr]

MadDawg - 30-1-2009 at 02:25

Chemically induced withdrawal?

I'm 18 years old and I've been through 3 benzodiazepine withdrawals...and I thought they were harmless to my health and well-being at the time! I'm currently going through a 4-6mg clonazepam daily withdrawal using Valium under doctor's orders.

Life sucks at the moment!

addiction

azo - 30-1-2009 at 03:16

i don't no whether you should be using one opiate to get of another .
anyway if i was taking them i would only take oxazep:Dam

i dont no what has happened in your life at the age of sixteen that brought you to take that class of drugs , but i am glad it is not me. any thiong that makes you feel that good is going to be hard to shake .

good day to everyone i haven't been on for a while whats new around here


regards azo:D

MadDawg - 30-1-2009 at 03:27

Was that a reply to me azo?

If so, it's not addiction. It's dependency to a benzodiazepines.


i don't no whether you should be using one opiate to get of another .
anyway if i was taking them i would only take oxazep:Dam

They're not opiates, I've never been addicted to any opioids/opiates. They're called benzodiazepines, and they are worse to withdraw from then the opioid/opiate drugs. Oxazepam is a benzodiazepine aswell dude.


i dont no what has happened in your life at the age of sixteen that brought you to take that class of drugs , but i am glad it is not me. any thiong that makes you feel that good is going to be hard to shake .

Nothing happened, I wasn't really anxious or suffering from anxiety. I just got the boot from school and had a script happy doctor who created my dependency. Yeah, they don't really make me feel good, just 'normal'.


Anyways, thanks for the reply dude!

hissingnoise - 30-1-2009 at 05:31

Quote:
Originally posted by MadDawg

If so, it's not addiction. It's dependency to a benzodiazepines.


Dependency is just a euphemism for addiction. . .

Globey - 19-2-2009 at 09:15

The best way to quit smoking, is to quit many times, and not use a relapse as an excuse to smoke copious amounts again. In other words, you need to be able to get to the point, where you can (for instance), quit for a few weeks, have ONE cigarette, and then quit again. Too much value is placed on the mentality of quitting (IMHO), and not enough on the quantity smoked. So I had a few puffs 9 months ago (a friend from Germany came by, and we went out for drinks)...I was at a bar, and enjoyed a cigarette. But I didn't feel I ruined any "cigarette sobriety", and haven't smoked since. But it wouldn't be a big deal if I smoked again, so long as I didn't get into the habit. For me, the WD from nicotine is very mild, and is very psychological. Opioid WD is far worse.

Sedit - 19-2-2009 at 10:07

@MadDawg
Beating clonazepam withdraw is easy as pie if you go to the health food store and find a substance called Gama Aminobutyric acid or GABA for short. One a day should be more then sufficent to help the sleep problems and possible tremors that can happen when going though benzodiazepine withdraw.

They had me perscribed to higher dose the yours but the bitch of a thing to kick was the lexapro they had perscribed along side of it. It has been years now and because the lexapro im still having tremors,sleep problems,depression and mood swings. Ironic that they perscribed it for depression I told them I didnt have yet now I am depressed because of it.

[Edited on 20-2-2009 by Sedit]

Jdurg - 19-2-2009 at 19:56

Kicking an addiction is a bitch. I smoked for only five years, and it was hell trying to quit. I eventually quit cold turkey and it was not fun. I just couldn't afford it anymore. What saddens me is that in the past year I re-developed the habit when I got hooked on chewing tobacco. Even worse of an addiction. I'm currently trying to kill that habit.

Though perhaps the worst one I had was an oxycodone addiction. :( I didn't even realize I was hooked on it. In June of last year, I got in a car accident that made my chest and back hurt like nothing else. While in the ER, the doctor there gave me a prescription for some pretty potent Vicodin. I was taking four of them a day for at least a week. (Possibly two weeks, I can't remember now). I took all the tabs and remember when I ran out. Yes, I could have asked for another refill and gotten it, but I didn't want to. I just went to work as normal and remember sitting at my desk and suddenly having a severe itch start. I was itching and restless for at least four days. It was hell. I just couldn't stop scratching. My co-workers even noticed the scratch marks on my body. It was a living hell. I never realized that I was physically addicted as the psychological addiction like nicotine just wasn't there. I'm just glad it ended, but I was able to understand why people who develop the habit can just never quit.

JohnWW - 19-2-2009 at 23:03

Quote:
Originally posted by Jdurg
What saddens me is that in the past year I re-developed the habit when I got hooked on chewing tobacco. Even worse of an addiction. I'm currently trying to kill that habit.

You had better, because consuming chewing tobacco is notorious for causing oral cancer. In the case of chewing tobacco, the cause of the cancer cannot be polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons such as benzpyrene in the tar produced by smoking, so it must be due to polonium-210 and other short-lived radioisotopes derived from U-238 and U-235 in tobacco gown in soils derived from granite.