Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Can we travel back in time really?

Can we travel back in time really?

Antineutron - 24-12-2018 at 08:04

I watched 10 scifi movies that say we can. I think those scifi could be real. Please do not reply to this post if you are negative thinker, and if you intend to give me reason why it would not work. I want answers from believers.

I already combed through wikipedia, and read about principles like relativity, time travel, grandfather paradox, wormhole and various experiments.

Basically reason why i believe that we can change past is because of relativity. I imagine that like this: "Can you be aware that two people are in love?", "Can you prove it?", "Can you feel somebody's feelings?". "Of course not!"

Meaning love is only relative thing, felt only in some rare people's hearts. And I heard that time is relative too! Like that time dilation principle. We see clocks relatively, so maybe our present is not so real, but exists only in eyes or brains. Can we change that? Can we see something else?

Also I think we can avoid death by always going into past. There could be many other benefits. Please do not tell it is not proven. Well, you can't prove that somebody dreamed something, but you they really did.

Tsjerk - 24-12-2018 at 08:17

Quote: Originally posted by Antineutron

Please do not reply to this post if you are negative thinker, and if you intend to give me reason why it would not work. I want answers from believers.

Lovely, creating your own little bubble. This is a scientific forum where we discuss in a scientific way. You can't, or you can but it won't work, ask not to get certain responses.

Vomaturge - 24-12-2018 at 08:21

So you only want answers by "believers" who will tell you its real? What if they're wrong? Part of science is accepting that your idea might be wrong.

Is it really possible? I have no idea. But if it is, I don't think anyone will figure it out in our lifetime. All the ways they do it in sci-fi movies are pretend, and don't work at all.

The fact you are asking a question without being open to both answers (yes or no) means this could end up in detritus, even if it's a real question, and not just meant to fuck with us as you sometimes do.

Again, the answer is nobody knows how to do it right now. Nobody knows if they can find a way in the future. But for now, you definitely can't do it.

[Edited on 24-12-2018 by Vomaturge]

Antineutron - 24-12-2018 at 08:41

Well, what if I or somebody discovers it? Let's discover! I don't like lacking ability to change past or avoid death.
Let's start from thinking, first we plan, then we make something, of course. Basically I think it's easy but because of bad luck nobody discovered so far.
I think we are missing some knowledge, parameter, device, law, principle that would enable us to do that.
Just because you are not aware of something does not mean it does not exist.
I mean I could as well say "gonna hang myself because i am not happy that i can't travel in time". That would be sick.
Tell me something I like to hear. I wanna good feeling. How to go to heaven? I am not interested in hell!
I am not looking for boredom or sadness or disease or anger or feeling lack of something. Be more interesting! Be happy!
"Whether you think you can or can't do something, you are right". So think you can! You must believe first!
Additional reason why I think we can is because of those particle accelerators, we can make any particles, including massless, right? Hell, we can even make photons with ordinary lights! Let's hack photons!
Don't you feel like your life is pathetic because you will only live once, and you don't know how to change past or avoid death? Are not we supposed to be interested in that? Become interested now!
Another reason why I think we can is existence of optical illusions, and math tricks (i call it mental illusions).
Not to talk about negative stuff like psychosis, hallucinations, ghosts, devils, black magic, ordinary magic...
I believe that time is relative OK? Speed of light is relative, OK? Maybe we can change some constant so time thinks it is different? To force it to behave differently?
You know, pressure and temperature are relative too. We can do it! Let's think...

j_sum1 - 24-12-2018 at 10:08

Merry Christmas PHD.

sodium_stearate - 24-12-2018 at 11:14

Yeah. It's possible.

I jump into my time machine frequently and go
back to any one of several different eras.

I can instantly go back to 1908 and run a fancy
wooden electric interurban car down the rails.

Steam railroading is also accessible to those
who want it bad enough, along with many other
things long gone from the mainstream.

The method of construction of your own personal time machine
is not intuitively obvious. Nope, you cannot ever hope
to catch up with old photons.

morganbw - 24-12-2018 at 15:34

I am fairly confident that I am able to travel forward in time. Abiet slowly but it has worked pretty consistently but I have not been able to figure out how far into the future I may travel.

I haven't really looked into going back in time, some of my memories there, sucked somewhat.

mayko - 24-12-2018 at 15:36

I think the real question is "may we?"

fusso - 24-12-2018 at 18:36

@PhD ur repeated reappearances had already made this forum go back in time.

[Edited on 181225 by fusso]

Mr. Rogers - 25-12-2018 at 06:36

You need Plutonium.

GrayGhost- - 25-12-2018 at 06:57

You are using matter (atoms and molecules) of other living and non-living beings (animals, plants, people and mining and organic objects) you could have in your body water molecules of a Roman soldier, if you go back someone should disappear the Roman soldier or you. Apart from the time it does not pass, we pass in time as an ephemeral spark, the evolution of the universe is ephemeral for time. The time we measure is just a comparison of ephemeral events within the infinite time. The disintegration of a radioactive isotope in nanoseconds is the same as the cellular degradation of your body in 75 years or the evolution of Pangea in millions of years. It is as if the whole universe were a fish tank where slow and fast events occur where we compare them to each other and that fish tank was in an infinitely large and empty universe called time. T = 0

Physical events and chemical reactions occur inside that pseudo-time tank. example every second elapsed you should rearrange the matter as it was a second ago in the whole universe to the point in question. If you cut a tree you should unite its cells, if you break a glass you should join the molecules of the glass, avoid the aging of cells therefore They would not react with oxygen and nutrients and would not live. Then traveling in time is ridiculous.

[Edited on 25-12-2018 by GrayGhost-]

Antineutron - 25-12-2018 at 07:45

Well, I didn't say that you have to say YES WE CAN. I would like not to her NO WE CAN'T because I don't like rejection, death, negotiation, leaving, disintegration and other sad things associated with bad stuff. Just imagine how many guys performed suicide because they were rejected by girls. They didn't like word NO. I mean word NO gives me anger and other bad feelings. Just wanna feel good. Imagine doctor tells you "no, we can't cure you, you're gonna die" or somebody rejects you from job/school/group "sorry, you are not accepted". That are not good news. I can't like it. Sorry.

Feel free to be open or neutral. Or if you wanna say NO, please explain in full detail, and consider all possibilities, dimensions, laws, religions, etc. How can you be so sure that we can't? Did you experience death, went to universe, etc?

Here are additional reasons why I believe we can, but are not smart or conscious enough.
We live in universe, not in some box or unlimited space or ball. Remember, our planet is just one ball in who knows what.
Nobody figured out why magnetism exists. Why our planet has magnetic fields like north and south?
All planets, stars, moons aka satellites are moving, we are not some stable area that just exists there and is peaceful.
Nobody told us how death looks like, do we cease to exist or become ghosts or reborn?
Nobody was able to read other people's dreams, not to even consider to verify are they just imagination or travel somewhere?

Then how do you explain that at top and bottom of planet time passes more quickly? Is that because that places are bit into future, or we who live around equator are bit into past? What is truth?

Then why we are able to modify half-life by changing temperature etc?
Is it not suspicious to you that stable elements do not exist? But all for some reason decay, some more quickly.

What about changing time in only one place like some box or body? I don't have to affect all people lives maybe.
I think it is possible on energy level, instead of material. Meaning we have to reverse nuclear reactions, do something extreme a bit. I still don't get that time dilation principle where they say that two different clocks were really different? I mean I read it but like I am missing something to figure it out. Maybe we think the wrong way? Is it even true? Is time even passing differently on sides far from equator? Is it only in our eyes or really?

Let's be open to any possibility, and if somebody discovers something, post here please!
I think I am onto something, but it is still too early to say anything. I feel we can change past. Of course according to current theories it is easier to change future.

Here are some possibilities:
- figure out why we have magnetism on our planet (what makes compasses work in nature), then destroy it
- figure out why our planet is moving and rotating, and stop it

Don't you feel like it has to do something with magnetism and rotation and moving? Just imagine how much stuff is affected by gravity. There are too many secrets in universe and even in planet. Why can nobody see core of planet? Is there some clock or something that would make us go insane?!

I mean even if nothing is proven yet, or if I am giving useless talk, let's be honest, we should be open to any possibility, because there is way too much undiscovered stuff, that we can say we are too stupid!

I mean they already said it works like for that man who was in space and became younger when he returned to our planet, by few ms. Still can't get it, can only read it. Or those two airplanes having different time...can't get it.

Don't you believe in reversibility? I noticed that even nuclear reactions are reversible. So time should be. But maybe we think of time wrongly, it's definition is not good enough, so we can't define what is opposite of time passing. If I could just think what is time and what is opposite? I know it's not easy to figure out, but maybe its not difficult either. Its impossible because we need different way of thinking. Let's try something.

[Edited on 25-12-2018 by Antineutron]

Fulmen - 25-12-2018 at 11:14

Quote: Originally posted by Antineutron

Still can't get it

Then you need to read a bit more about General Relativity. Some of the math is pretty impossible for us mortals, but the basic principles are much easier to understand. Mainly because it's not really something to "get" or understand, you just have to accept that it's true.

But it's great to see others giving time travel a go. We're having a meeting last thursday, let me know if you're planning to attend.

beerwiz - 28-12-2018 at 20:03

Quote: Originally posted by mayko

I think the real question is "may we?"

Mayko has the best answer, short and to the point. It is possible to travel back in time, but you need permission from the higher powers to do that.

r0749547 - 29-12-2018 at 12:00

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

You need Plutonium.

To get the 1.21 Jigowatts of power.
But where do we get a flux capacitor?

Assured Fish - 29-12-2018 at 16:17

How the hell is this thread still here, are the mods on holiday or are they just feeling anarchistic?
Fuck it, lets roll in the mud with the other piggies

We almost certainly probably most definitely cannot travel back in time, for reasons that we do not know and might not ever know.
However i rather like Neil Degrasse Tyson's take on this, in that we will likely find a rule or law at some point that would prohibit us from doing so. You could take this even further and say "perhaps it is that our current understanding of the nature of time is flawed, and to call it going backwards at all is just a misunderstanding of the true nature of things".

I suppose, if we want to look at it logically (there is nothing logical about this), time and space are (for lack of better terminology) one in the same, as we move through space we also traverse time at an accelerated rate (again a lack of better terminology).
So logically, all we have to do to travel backwards through time is travel through negative space.

The only way i would presume we could do this is with a worm hole, assuming worm holes are a thing, also this would mean that you would have matter moving both ways through the worm hole (problems).
Nobody has ever known how to make a worm hole, nobody even knows if they can exist. This kind of knowledge is far out of the reach of anyone alive today, it is rather foolish to attempt to even try but i suppose the worse thing to happen if you did would be that you learned some valuable lessons on physics.

Look, there really is no point to trying to do this or even think about it with any conviction, my advise would be to focus on researching and studying the nature of the known first and then find the many millions of gaps people have left behind in their wake and filling those.
This would allow any future generations to gain a broader and more complete picture, so that maybe perhaps they may figure out why we can or most likely cannot travel backwards through time.

GrayGhost- - 29-12-2018 at 17:17

If you today 12-29-2018 take each atom and rearrange it as in 1780, reliving every living being, person, Napoleon Bonaparte and his army, animal, plant, bacteria, the same meteorological, geological and astronomical conditions same energy conditions of the sun , earth, universe. All the same, would you be in 1780 or 2018? You will disappear to donate your atoms, the current people and all the current technology to build that past.
1) It would not be a trip but a reversal.
2) If you can travel the mere fact of interfering with the "past" would affect the development of the future and be paradoxical.
3) time does not pass only there are changes that we compare with other changes in units of time.

wg48temp9 - 30-12-2018 at 03:08

Until recently (last 30 years) there was no scientific principal, law or theory that would be violated or excluded travel back in time. It simple required a rout or path in Space Time where the starting point was at the present time and ending point was at a previous time. The reverse of time travel into the future caused by velocity or gravity/acceleration. It was believed that such a path to the past would exist near a very dense and rapidly rotating large mass. (see previous thread on this topic or wiki)
However Stephen Hawking mathematically proved that given what we presently know about the geometry of space time and physics a path to the past in space time is impossible.

So for four dimensional geometry challenged readers, similar to myself, time travel into the past is impossible because Stephen Hawking said so.

Time travel in to the past will have to wait until, if ever, we discover new properties of space time or physics.

Perhaps the OP should swot up (a lot) on maths and physics and try to prove Hawking wrong.

[Edited on 30-12-2018 by wg48temp9]

BOBardment - 30-12-2018 at 08:04

It was never "can we do it", it's "should we even bother to try".
Changing time can cause such dramatic change to the present and future that it simply shouldn't be done, yet.

phlogiston - 30-12-2018 at 10:35

Here's a thought I always have when reading discussions on this topic, but never see mentioned:

When people say they want to 'travel back in time', what they actually mean is for the entire universe to travel back in time, while they themselves stay just the way they are.

Literally, if just YOU were to travel back in time, you'll become a baby again, and the universe goes on to move forward in time.

Otherwise, 'PhD', if it is indeed you, even though your trolling is usually somewhat annoying, I've found it amusing as well sometimes during the year and it has even sparked interesting discussions. Don't take this as encouragement, but I still prefer it a 1000 times over spam. I'd never think I'd say it but I think you've become some kind of part of the forum. Part of the furniture so to speak. Anyway, best wishes for the new year.

[Edited on 30-12-2018 by phlogiston]

Sulaiman - 30-12-2018 at 10:57

I will pay $100,000,000 cash to anyone who can present me with a machine capable of taking me and my gold into the past of my choice (where I can buy share certificates and properties) and bring me back to the present unharmed,
after which I will pay you your reward.

For a fully working TARDIS I will pay $1,000,000,000

Note : this is a limited offer, only submissions received before yesterday are eligible.

[Edited on 26-12-2018 by Sulaiman]

wg48temp9 - 30-12-2018 at 16:29

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

I will pay $100,000,000 cash to anyone who can present me with a machine capable of taking me and my gold into the past of my choice (where I can buy share certificates and properties) and bring me back to the present unharmed,
after which I will pay you your reward.

For a fully working TARDIS I will pay $1,000,000,000

Note : this is a limited offer, only submissions received before yesterday are eligible.

[Edited on 26-12-2018 by Sulaiman]

Only one billion for a fully working go anywhere anytime Tardis. It cost 24 billion for the US to go to just moon. You must be a cheapskate LOL.

elementcollector1 - 30-12-2018 at 16:55

What really aggravates me about the notion of time travel is the grandfather paradox. When you travel back in time to shoot your grandfather, if anything, you're creating two split timelines, one of which (from your perspective and only yours) loops backwards to the point of splitting and then continues along the other path. You don't stop existing because you shot your grandfather and prevented your own birth - the 'you' that would've existed in this timeline if this version of you hadn't done that is the one that ends up not existing. Meanwhile, you're stuck in 1940 without a home or job, the country is about to go to war, and nobody believes you when you say you're from the future and shouldn't even still exist. Have fun.

One of the funniest consequences of relativity is that, no matter how hard you try to escape it, life goes on. Your perspective is not the only one that matters, and it never will be.

[Edited on 12/31/2018 by elementcollector1]

macckone - 30-12-2018 at 19:48

Lets assume that 'conservation of mass/energy' holds. It is impossible to travel through time as practical matter as it is a violation of the conservation of mass/energy. The amount of total matter in the universe would increase when you appeared in the past. This exclusion similarly holds for alternate timelines.

We can say for certainty that if the conservation of mass/energy is absolute then time travel as envisioned is impossible.

We can also say with certainty that if it does not hold true then the universe will increase in total mass/energy over time, eventually leading to a big crunch which seems to be the opposite of what we are observing today.

TheMrbunGee - 31-12-2018 at 06:33

I have started to look skeptically at this time travel thing. People have calculated and used it practice small deviations of time in orbits of earth because of different speeds and gravity. They also fix paradoxes with forking of timeline, but then I got this question - if satellite travels few nanoseconds in time, why does the timeline does not fork? Does forking have some benchmark, when it happens? Seems very unlikely..

But this might just be travelling slower in time, not backwards.

lordcookies24 - 3-1-2019 at 06:23

The op pisses me off, he watched a bunch of sci-fi movie and now you want to have your fantasy supported but only supported. You refuse to have the evidence that burst your bubbles but will accept the one one that will support your claim. The truth is the truth and cannot be bent to your liking. This forum is for science.

Entropy, the second law of thermodynamics, is also known as "the arrow of time", it can increase but it cannot decreased. Meaning that time only goes forward. I don't think we will find a way to reverse or accelerate the entropy of a closed system anytime soon

But I think forward time travel is possible since it does not reverse the arrow of time which is suppose to only go forward, don't take this seriously tho I didn't do much research

edit: added info about forward time travel

p.s. please correct me if i am wrong

[Edited on 3-1-2019 by lordcookies24]

DrP - 3-1-2019 at 06:32

Quote: Originally posted by Antineutron

I watched 10 scifi movies that say we can. I think those scifi could be real. Please do not reply to this post if you are negative thinker, and if you intend to give me reason why it would not work.

Could your FICTION be real? hmm... lol. Sci-Fi = Fiction - so by definition made up.

Quote: Originally posted by lordcookies24

The op pisses me off, he watched a bunch of sci-fi movie and now you want to have your fantasy supported but only supported. You refuse to have the evidence that burst your bubbles but will accept the one one that will support your claim. The truth is the truth and cannot be bent to your liking. This forum is for science.

Although I agree with you I think the OP is just trolling and fishing for bites.... Someone else already said that he is a sock puppet of a regular troll who tries to wind people up. He knows fiction isn't real he is just being a dick.

So - peace be with you - Happy New Year

MrHomeScientist - 3-1-2019 at 08:52

Good lord just kill this thread already. It's posted by a known troll, has generated nothing of value, and isn't even chemistry related.

fusso - 3-1-2019 at 09:37

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

Good lord just kill this thread already. It's posted by a known troll, has generated nothing of value, and isn't even chemistry related.

Best to be deleted completely, not just put in detritus, to free up precious server space.

morganbw - 3-1-2019 at 10:45

What I believe and what others believe really has no merit in answering the OP's question.
There does happen to be men of science who actually study this and have somewhat differing beliefs.

This thread may belong in detritus, not my call.

I do not believe personally that we are able to travel back in time.
My statement is a belief, which is based on science, as I know it.

I think that perhaps the word improbable is more correct than the word impossible.

DrP - 4-1-2019 at 03:10

Quote: Originally posted by morganbw

I do not believe personally that we are able to travel back in time.
My statement is a belief, which is based on science, as I know it.

I think that perhaps the word improbable is more correct than the word impossible.

I tend to agree. It is an interesting subject though (regardless of the OPs agenda).

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

and isn't even chemistry related.

Does it need to be chemistry related? I though the site was 'Science'... which covers a lot more than amateur chemistry. There are pure 'Chemistry' sites out there if you'd prefer the discussion to be solely about chemistry.. Regardless of the OPs agenda it is still an interesting subject.... separating Science Fiction from reality.

j_sum1 - 4-1-2019 at 04:17

Can we go back in time?

Well, this guy has done it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6rVHr6OwjI

Warning:
Insanely clever and extremely entertaining.
The making of video is well worth watching too. Poor guy's brain was fried by the end of it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54nAOaEe_Fw

Herr Haber - 4-1-2019 at 05:01

Quote: Originally posted by r0749547

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

You need Plutonium.

To get the 1.21 Jigowatts of power.
But where do we get a flux capacitor?

I left one in the drawer next to the Dilithium injectors.

But that wont help if your Plutonium has been polarized.

AJKOER - 4-1-2019 at 08:06

Quote: Originally posted by TheMrbunGee

I have started to look skeptically at this time travel thing. People have calculated and used it practice small deviations of time in orbits of earth because of different speeds and gravity. They also fix paradoxes with forking of timeline, but then I got this question - if satellite travels few nanoseconds in time, why does the timeline does not fork? Does forking have some benchmark, when it happens? Seems very unlikely..

But this might just be travelling slower in time, not backwards.

So definitely imperfect time travel exists!

On a long space voyage, assuming you make it back, everyone on earth ages much more than you.

So, in essence, when (if) you return, you have leaped forward into the future, albeit you are older than when you started!

Enjoy, as I really suspect prolong radiation exposure in space likely greatly reduces your longevity!

[Edited on 5-1-2019 by AJKOER]

Assured Fish - 4-1-2019 at 18:36

I have serious issues with putting time and entropy in the same basket.
Mostly because i think people have forgotten what a rather important part of entropy and specifically the part: "The entropy of a system can never decrease".
The actual way of saying this correctly is "The entropy of a closed system can never decrease". (im also certain this rule is vastly out-dated)

The universe is not a closed system so how one could equate time or our universe abiding by this rule is beyond me.
Im fairly sure the reason the law is written this way, is because outside of a closed system there are far too many exceptions to it for it to have any meaningful consequences.

I think the only way to make the entropic time idea work would be if you could somehow rationalize that our universe is somehow closed.
Though even then, the size of our universe makes it rather impossible for it to justifiably be called closed, given that there are objects in our universe that can never and will never interact with each other, so much so that they might as well be part of different systems (if that makes sense).

Im not saying this entropy law is obsolete, much like newtons laws they still work very well when applied correctly, its just they are missing rather crucial pieces of information, such as quantum mechanics.
We already know from quantum mechanics that the laws that govern the large do not govern the small, so it wouldn't be too great of an assumption to suggest that the laws within a smaller system like a test tube or beaker do not apply to the universe as a whole.

Ive somewhat forgotten what the point of that paragraph was but anyway, my overall point is that it would be a huge mistake indeed for us to say that we cannot travel backwards in time because our current laws say so.
Because they don't say so.

SWIM - 4-1-2019 at 19:14

Quote: Originally posted by Antineutron

Also I think we can avoid death by always going into past.

Back in WWII, a certain airman Dunbar can up with a way to extend his life as he experienced it.

He realized that boring things seem to last longer, so he cultivated ennui to make his life last longer from his own frame of reference.

He'd lie stock-still in bed staring at the ceiling much of the time, and would otherwise pass his time in studying sundry stultifying subjects.

Unfortunately, the solution he came up with would have had huge negative effects on the war effort had it been widely adopted by the airmen on the tiny island where he was posted.

It would truly have been a black eye for the camp commander had this happened, so Dunbar was disappeared. And so neatly that it ended up being a real feather in the commander's cap; earning him much credit with the man who ran the mimeograph machine at SHAEF.

SelfInflicted - 4-1-2019 at 19:42

I do believe you can view the past. How far in the past you wish to view depends on the power of your telescope.

j_sum1 - 5-1-2019 at 17:20

Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish

I have serious issues with putting time and entropy in the same basket.
<snip>

The universe is not a closed system.

As far as I understand it, the mathematics used to describe time/space are symmetric -- which leads to the hypothesis that reverse travel through time is possible. We can extrapolate the physics of motion forward as easily as we can backwards.

The exception of course is that entropy increases in the forward direction of time. One definition for the positive direction of time is the direction in which entropy increases.

The question of whether the universe as a whole is a closed system is besides the point. That does not affect the definition.

BOBardment - 5-1-2019 at 19:27

Assuming we can, assuming we suddenly had a machine that can work flawlessly and achieve the type of time travel we all dreamed of without any complication or even energy consumption. Why would we ever do it? So you can cheat on a test? To provide current technology to people in the past? To help someone get that girl they failed to get?

I have met vast amount of people and conducted many thoughts experiments. (Or rather just simple questions with some in-depth thoughts)
And here is what I found interesting, almost everyone who wanted to travel back in time had no potential in life. Very few people wanted to do it just to create a paradox, which is understandable. All the others were people, or rather WEAKLINGS who can't do something on their own, and constantly hoped for a higher power to help them. To give them a chance to try something again, because they believed that they failed just because of bad luck. No, they failed because they suck and didn't deserve it. But they thought it was because some unfair advantage they didn't have, and that qualifies them to use an unfair advantage. The truth is, they are simply too stupid and deserved whatever failure they ended up with, they always thought "Only if I have done..." instead of "What I should be doing".

lordcookies24 - 6-1-2019 at 13:22

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

Assuming we can, assuming we suddenly had a machine that can work flawlessly and achieve the type of time travel we all dreamed of without any complication or even energy consumption. Why would we ever do it? So you can cheat on a test? To provide current technology to people in the past? To help someone get that girl they failed to get?

I have met vast amount of people and conducted many thoughts experiments. (Or rather just simple questions with some in-depth thoughts)
And here is what I found interesting, almost everyone who wanted to travel back in time had no potential in life. Very few people wanted to do it just to create a paradox, which is understandable. All the others were people, or rather WEAKLINGS who can't do something on their own, and constantly hoped for a higher power to help them. To give them a chance to try something again, because they believed that they failed just because of bad luck. No, they failed because they suck and didn't deserve it. But they thought it was because some unfair advantage they didn't have, and that qualifies them to use an unfair advantage. The truth is, they are simply too stupid and deserved whatever failure they ended up with, they always thought "Only if I have done..." instead of "What I should be doing".

you must be a hit at parties

Antiproton - 11-1-2019 at 06:12

BOBardment: It can be true, but can also be false. You can't be so sure, make conclusions.
It's similar to saying "those who want to chase chemistry have no potential in life, they are failures"

For example to prevent suicides, homicides, terrorist attacks, damaged devices. That sounds like huge potential in life!
If you are not motivated to go back in time, then you have no reason to live.

And I believe it is possible, the last reference I found is:
- Stephen Hawking thinks that universe is "locked" so we can't hack it, even if you believe we can travel in time, because various offsets would cancel each other, measured quantitatively
- if I can find thought to beat Stephen Hawking theoretically, it's very likely, i will be able to do it practically, maybe he would beat himself alone, but he died still thinking, there is not the end
- if we can travel faster than speed of light we can go back in time
- we don't have to go back in time using our bodies, it can be using computers, radio waves, signals, to inform people in past to beware of dangers like terrorist attacks, diseases, traps, disasters, wrong doings
- there are lot of undiscovered secrets, and always will be, meaning we can discover something soon
- brain is inefficient, says Eckhart Tolle, we need to think less, but with more quality so something smart comes into head

Antiproton - 22-1-2019 at 06:08

And I've been thinking is this some scifi, psychosis, fallacy, joke, or real possibility and came to conclusion.
If Albert Einstein's theory works for mass-energy equivalence (nuclear stuff), then why he would be lying about time travel.
Why would same scientist lie about one thing and tell truth about another thing?
I am convinced that we can travel in time. Just we have less knowledge than for nuclear stuff. Although everybody's knowledge is more personal. I can talk about my knowledge at least.
But these two are very related. Let's be honest, the other one is not anything less extreme, yet it works.
I remember myself 10 years ago when I did not believe in this stuff, but somehow the older I grow the more confidence I get.
Now my usual thinking about nuclear stuff is "Of course it works, there is nothing extraordinary, it is normal and even getting boring. Of course we can make any element from any elements, and remove radioactive waste, and get free energy without a doubt or problem. I feel confidence while telling this. There is no slightest doubt."
Yet I remember myself about 6 years ago when I just discovered it (something called isotopes that keeps appearing in wikipedia element pages). I was astonished, excited, reacted with "wow, i am smarter than anyone on this planet, gonna succeed, everybody else is stupid and poor, gonna be above them." There were many wow's in that few years, but it eventually becomes belief and habit. Eventually it becomes boring. It does not mean it is no worth it or does not work or that I really succeeded, but that we humans are born that way, to get bored once we get used to something, that is no longer considered extraordinary or new. One even more boring and more realistic realization that happened is that we can get all elements from soil, garbage, air, water, anything. No need to search for them somewhere. It was extreme in beginning too. Sounded like scifi. Yet I am 200% confident that it works. Even bored. Similar thing happened with any discovery, it first happens with excitement, extreme reaction, bragging, and that knowledge expands each month a bit, until you say "that is nothing extraordinary, of course it works, i can swear it works, nothing unusual to me".
Maybe it is just that in this moment my knowledge about time travel is same as was my knowledge about nuclear stuff 5 years ago, meaning in it's beginning phase, somewhere around 10%. But I have feeling that it works. And even if all humans are soon gonna know it, just like soon everybody is gonna use nuclear fusion as ordinary energy, everybody will get bored eventually, and avoiding death and becoming younger etc, will become our ordinary habit. Ordinary day.

BOBardment - 27-1-2019 at 18:30

Quote: Originally posted by Antiproton

BOBardment: It can be true, but can also be false. You can't be so sure, make conclusions.
It's similar to saying "those who want to chase chemistry have no potential in life, they are failures"

For example to prevent suicides, homicides, terrorist attacks, damaged devices. That sounds like huge potential in life!
If you are not motivated to go back in time, then you have no reason to live.

And I believe it is possible, the last reference I found is:
- Stephen Hawking thinks that universe is "locked" so we can't hack it, even if you believe we can travel in time, because various offsets would cancel each other, measured quantitatively
- if I can find thought to beat Stephen Hawking theoretically, it's very likely, i will be able to do it practically, maybe he would beat himself alone, but he died still thinking, there is not the end
- if we can travel faster than speed of light we can go back in time
- we don't have to go back in time using our bodies, it can be using computers, radio waves, signals, to inform people in past to beware of dangers like terrorist attacks, diseases, traps, disasters, wrong doings
- there are lot of undiscovered secrets, and always will be, meaning we can discover something soon
- brain is inefficient, says Eckhart Tolle, we need to think less, but with more quality so something smart comes into head

"If I can beat Stephen Hawking theoreticall, it's very likely, I will be able to do it practically."
First of all... Why Hawking?...
Second, you can't.
Third, assuming you can do it theoretically, that doesn't give you the all clear for practical production. First of all, I assume you don't happen to have a couple billion USD sitting in your bank account with twenty major corporation CEO best buddies. Second of all, you will have pressure from competition. Then there is the fact that you didn't think about consequences at all because this is a BS thread.

Don't you think this is a lot of work to change something small like stopping terrorist attacks? Keep in mind 911 only happened once so you really ain't getting that much out of that machine.

Assuming you stopped the 911, what happens now? No one would remember the event, you have to remember a different god damned emergency phone number. A different event would replace its place because media need something to write about and the government need something to remind people:"Look at this, we are so great at our jobs this only happened once!"

BOBardment - 27-1-2019 at 19:05

Quote: Originally posted by Antiproton

And I've been thinking is this some scifi, psychosis, fallacy, joke, or real possibility and came to conclusion.
If Albert Einstein's theory works for mass-energy equivalence (nuclear stuff), then why he would be lying about time travel.
Why would same scientist lie about one thing and tell truth about another thing?
I am convinced that we can travel in time. Just we have less knowledge than for nuclear stuff. Although everybody's knowledge is more personal. I can talk about my knowledge at least.
But these two are very related. Let's be honest, the other one is not anything less extreme, yet it works.
I remember myself 10 years ago when I did not believe in this stuff, but somehow the older I grow the more confidence I get.
Now my usual thinking about nuclear stuff is "Of course it works, there is nothing extraordinary, it is normal and even getting boring. Of course we can make any element from any elements, and remove radioactive waste, and get free energy without a doubt or problem. I feel confidence while telling this. There is no slightest doubt."
Yet I remember myself about 6 years ago when I just discovered it (something called isotopes that keeps appearing in wikipedia element pages). I was astonished, excited, reacted with "wow, i am smarter than anyone on this planet, gonna succeed, everybody else is stupid and poor, gonna be above them." There were many wow's in that few years, but it eventually becomes belief and habit. Eventually it becomes boring. It does not mean it is no worth it or does not work or that I really succeeded, but that we humans are born that way, to get bored once we get used to something, that is no longer considered extraordinary or new. One even more boring and more realistic realization that happened is that we can get all elements from soil, garbage, air, water, anything. No need to search for them somewhere. It was extreme in beginning too. Sounded like scifi. Yet I am 200% confident that it works. Even bored. Similar thing happened with any discovery, it first happens with excitement, extreme reaction, bragging, and that knowledge expands each month a bit, until you say "that is nothing extraordinary, of course it works, i can swear it works, nothing unusual to me".
Maybe it is just that in this moment my knowledge about time travel is same as was my knowledge about nuclear stuff 5 years ago, meaning in it's beginning phase, somewhere around 10%. But I have feeling that it works. And even if all humans are soon gonna know it, just like soon everybody is gonna use nuclear fusion as ordinary energy, everybody will get bored eventually, and avoiding death and becoming younger etc, will become our ordinary habit. Ordinary day.

You are not avoiding death with time travel, you are reliving a certain section of it. (This would be the desired outcome)

pneumatician - 11-2-2019 at 17:12

Quote: Originally posted by Antineutron

Basically reason why i believe that we can change past is because of relativity.

Meaning love is only relative thing, felt only in some rare people's hearts. And I heard that time is relative too! Like that time dilation principle. We see clocks relatively, so maybe our present is not so real, but exists only in eyes or brains. Can we change that? Can we see something else?

Also I think we can avoid death by always going into past. There could be many other benefits. Please do not tell it is not proven. Well, you can't prove that somebody dreamed something, but you they really did.

IMHO you are mixing some big ones and avoiding others big ones like the human factor.

You can't change the past, this need a tremendous big amount of energy.

You can travel back in time, go outdoors at night and look starts

now you are "traveling" back in time from some minutes to 1000's of years.

Time is like a film reel, you only see a frame, the actual frame, but past and future are in the reels.

well I think you want to travel with all your body "physically", for this you need to look in magnetism, light, maybe sound... something to desmaterialize you, jump in "time" and materialize again, or maybe create a bubble of no time (electromagnetic) and move in past or future like the time machine film.

you known the Philadelphia experiment?

Another kamikaze option is enter in Bermuda triangle, maybe you can return, maybe not. Other option is enter in popular portals, but to see a portal you need to extend your eyes vision a lot, or use electromagnetic sensors... the options are here for the seeker

Chemistry

sodium_stearate - 11-2-2019 at 18:16

This is, after all, a chemistry forum.

On that note, I will offer the idea of taking some LSD.

That stuff alters your brain chemistry just enough
so that it allows you to think quite a bit differently
than what is considered normal.

So, quite possibly, there may be some interesting
insights about time, that can possibly be accessed
with the assistance of a little chemistry.

TheMrbunGee - 12-2-2019 at 05:36

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate

This is, after all, a chemistry forum.

On that note, I will offer the idea of taking some LSD.

That stuff alters your brain chemistry just enough
so that it allows you to think quite a bit differently
than what is considered normal.

So, quite possibly, there may be some interesting
insights about time, that can possibly be accessed
with the assistance of a little chemistry.

LSD is not that mind altering, there are way more potent chems out there for that. It is hard to get that other point of view, but It depends on individual, I guess. I have heard that little dose of weed has made someone to "see" or more like imagine how does tiny molecules vibrate and wiggle the space time around them, just watching on a table.

I guess you need some kind of kick-start, not necessary a alien chemical, but just a thought.

beerwiz - 14-3-2019 at 03:29

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LSD is not that mind altering, there are way more potent chems out there for that. It is hard to get that other point of view, but It depends on individual, I guess. I have heard that little dose of weed has made someone to "see" or more like imagine how does tiny molecules vibrate and wiggle the space time around them, just watching on a table.

I guess you need some kind of kick-start, not necessary a alien chemical, but just a thought.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LSD would be my prime choice if I was to tackle an unfathomable problem like time travel. I've had success with it solving other difficult problems and have had amazing breakthroughs. As far as I know, LSD is the most powerful mind altering drug available today. It is 100 times more potent than magick mushrooms and 4000 times stronger than mescaline

You say there are more potent mind altering chems than LSD. Can you name a few? My job requires a lot of creativity and any suggestions you may have will be of great value.

I tried weed once (purple haze) and I didn't see any value in it, that was 20 years ago.

[Edited on 14-3-2019 by beerwiz]

Sulaiman - 14-3-2019 at 05:54

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate

I will offer the idea of taking some LSD.

So, quite possibly, there may be some interesting
insights about time, that can possibly be accessed
with the assistance of a little chemistry.

LSD is fun but for insights you need THC.
________________________________
back in twenty minutes ........
________________________________
O.K. now that I'm fully insightfulified I can reveal the answer(s);
1) to get to the other side
2) even if no one is exists, a bear on a falling tree in the woods would make a noise when it shits its self
3) blue is the new black, unless on a non-Euclidien plane during Easter
4) It is unlikely that any human in our future develops time travel as no one in our past has reported meeting a time traveller.
This means that humanity ends before time travel is discovered.
(according to a recent conversation with my trees, I estimate that to be during the third waxing of the moon when Jupiter is in Scorpio and Saturn in Pisces, just after the Sun rises in the West, which would otherwise have been a lovely afternoon)

... mmmmm ... maybe neither LSD nor THC has the answer

- but I have heard that there is a link between licking the back of a Malaysian penguin and hallucinatinory states.

TheMrbunGee - 14-3-2019 at 06:08

Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LSD is not that mind altering, there are way more potent chems out there for that. It is hard to get that other point of view, but It depends on individual, I guess. I have heard that little dose of weed has made someone to "see" or more like imagine how does tiny molecules vibrate and wiggle the space time around them, just watching on a table.

I guess you need some kind of kick-start, not necessary a alien chemical, but just a thought.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LSD would be my prime choice if I was to tackle an unfathomable problem like time travel. I've had success with it solving other difficult problems and have had amazing breakthroughs. As far as I know, LSD is the most powerful mind altering drug available today. It is 100 times more potent than magick mushrooms and 4000 times stronger than mescaline

You say there are more potent mind altering chems than LSD. Can you name a few? My job requires a lot of creativity and any suggestions you may have will be of great value.

I tried weed once (purple haze) and I didn't see any value in it, that was 20 years ago.

[Edited on 14-3-2019 by beerwiz]

More potent - maybe not, more mind altering - DMT and derivatives.

jack44556677 - 15-3-2019 at 02:59

Definitely a physics question.... I've been musing on this for a long time. Below is the idea of a professor from UConn to talk to his dead father again.

Assuming time ISN'T adequately described by thermodynamic change, and thus requires some sort of omniscient observer recording all things in order to allow for such a "backup" to be restored.

Here's the setup : If you buy measured time relativity, i.e. the experiment with the atomic clocks, one on the rocket and one at home - then there might just be a way.

Because the clock moving at 25,000mph relative to the "stationary" one on earth is moving that much closer to the speed of light, the speed at which the clock runs is slightly slower when compared to the clock at home. This is a highly dubious experiment for a variety of reasons, but let's go ahead and say it proves everything Einstein ever thought right, from now until infinity.

That is still just travel into the future, but it demonstrates that you can change the passage of time by changing your speed relative to a somehow "ir-relative" speed of light.

Here's the rub : From the mathematics, speed isn't the only thing that can alter the flow of time relative to earth. So can gravity / energy density. Assuming black holes are real, and actually what we think they are, they are a good example. As things are sucked into the event horizon, or rather as they approach it, they slow down (appear to slow down from our observational reference) and at "infinite" gravity/energy density you get a "tear" and time stops completely. AFAIUI Hawking was instrumental in mathematically describing why time does NOT stop at the even horizon and why all black holes evaporate eventually, but I digress. Still with me? Long story short (and if this was a physics forum I would have left little to none of the above) - if you send light or something moving very close to it into or nearby an energy/gravity concentration, from your perspective it would slow down until it vanished from your sight. It is this vanishing point that may hold the key to time travel, if such a thing there be. If you imagined the light as a clock, whose face you could always see and read (even after it vanishes) ... one of the potential mathematical solutions involves the light moving backwards towards the origin and the clock hands moving backwards (from your, relatively stationary, perspective).

The Uconn professor hoped to use this principle with a powerful array of lasers focused on a very small area of space (high energy density) and some sort of charged particle or light sent into it in pulsed / information carrying ways in the hopes that results from future testing of the machine might be measurable in the present. Of course this device would only be useful for information transfer, and only SINCE the time travel telegram facility was first built.

Fun stuff.

Sulaiman - 15-3-2019 at 06:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0qDy0T5WXM

MrHomeScientist - 15-3-2019 at 06:22

jack44556677, you seem distrustful of relativity and black holes. Why do you think clocks running slower is "dubious"? GPS satellites wouldn't work without clock corrections based on relativity. Atomic clocks in space have been shown to run slower than atomic clocks on Earth. You can observe cosmic ray muons in a cloud chamber on Earth despite these muons not having a long enough lifespan to reach the surface, because time is slowed down for them. I've seen these myself, just the other day.

Black holes certainly exist, they're just hard to observe (they're black, after all). We can observe stars near the galactic center orbiting a gigantic mass that occupies a small volume and doesn't emit light; a black hole fits that quite nicely.

Do you have alternative explanations for these phenomena?

Mothman - 16-3-2019 at 07:50

Man I'm not high enough for this thread, lemme go grab my *other* glassware.

Funny thing is it's still chemistry equipment because I'm that much of a nerd. 14/20 blaze it!

jack44556677 - 9-4-2019 at 21:09

@MrHomeScientist - At this point in my life I would say I am distrustful, generally, regardless of subject or object.

I am a fellow lover of cloud chambers, and my ex does the muon experiment for every undergrad that goes through the basic physics lab course (though she doesn't use a cloud chamber, which is a bummer).

I do have grave doubts, as Tesla and many others did/do, about Relativity writ large - including but not limited to: relative time and black holes.

Large non-luminescent mass/gravity/"dark energy"/"dark matter"/"fill in the blank made up term to keep circling the big bang standard cosmological drain without repentance or humility" do exist in the observable universe. Though obviously we only "know" it is there by making observations of visible phenomena and inferring the rest, we observe matter being affected by the invisible and declare the invisible this and that. Do I have a better suggestion as to what it is than the interpretation that Einstein himself thought was a purely mathematical misunderstanding/misapplication of his theories? Short answer, No. Do I think it is reasonable to continue to doubt that such things exist until there is experimental evidence that can support it (extra-ordinary claims and all that...)? Short answer : Yes. Sagan fought the oort cloud tooth and nail for the same reasons, and he was right to. Looking for the universe in our models/equations is almost always counter-productive, and leads further into fantasy and supposition. The black hole fitting "nicely" isn't coincidence, it is evidence of a failing cosmological model desperate for anything to keep propping it up (dark energy and matter come to mind most prominently). We continue to have very little, if any, physical evidence that black holes can or do exist.

As for measured relative time, this is another massive claim requiring massive evidence to justify. I will continue to be a skeptic myself until some physical / mechanical clock is tested, and I don't trust NASA to conduct this science any better than the other inept bureaucratic American government/military institutions. I personally suspect that the speed of light is the universal constant and that it enables the building of a light clock allowing for absolute time and absolute position. One of my relativity thought experiment paradoxes that suggests this is as follows : What happens when, in a space ship, traveling near to the speed of light at constant velocity and you turn on a flashlight in the direction of motion. What do you see? What does your friend on earth see through the window? Rather than allow superliminal light inside the cabin or other such nonsense, I think it is far simpler to just say (imagine) the light comes out slower. This slower light would be the measurement of your speed relative to "absolute stationary" as well as your direction. It is also far simpler (and more sane) to suppose that space travel and orbit affect the function of the atomic clock in this way which requires adjustment, rather than concluding that what has altered is "the very flow of time, itself!!".

@Sulaiman - I don't like that show, but that clip really captures and succinctly conveys something about time travel discussion in general!

Fulmen - 10-4-2019 at 09:51

Quote: Originally posted by jack44556677

I do have grave doubts, as Tesla and many others did/do, about Relativity writ large - including but not limited to: relative time and black holes.

No disrespect to Tesla, but by the time SR was published he was already in his 50's. Few scientists have made significant contributions that late in life. Also, he was "merely" an electrical and mechanical engineer so he might not be the best one to listen to.

Reality is that people have been trying to poke hoes in GR for more than a century, and it's still going strong. We know it has it's limits, but within those it's as right as we can measure.

You want observations? GR explains the anomalous perihelion shift for the innermost planets. Gravitational lensing has been used for astronomical observation. We've observed gravity waves, we've even taken a fucking picture of a black fucking hole!!!

MrHomeScientist - 10-4-2019 at 11:02

jack44556677, thank you for the well thought-out and non-emotional response. Far too many people on the internet immediately go nuts when they are challenged.

Quote: Originally posted by jack44556677

Do I have a better suggestion as to what it is than the interpretation that Einstein himself thought was a purely mathematical misunderstanding/misapplication of his theories? Short answer, No. Do I think it is reasonable to continue to doubt that such things exist until there is experimental evidence that can support it (extra-ordinary claims and all that...)? Short answer : Yes.

Nothing wrong with healthy scepticism! Incorrect math is always a possibility, and theories have been changed, refined, and thrown out as new observations were made. What we have now is our best approximation of how we think the world works, and observations fit the theory to pretty good accuracy for the most part. The problem, I think, is that it's very difficult for the lay person to really understand why a theory works when "behind the curtain" the math and explanations are so convoluted. Hell, I'm a physicist myself and a lot of it goes over my head. But these models and the math behind them are currently the best ones that fit the observations. We can say with a pretty strong degree of certainty that, indeed, this is how the universe works.

Quote: Originally posted by jack44556677

The black hole fitting "nicely" isn't coincidence, it is evidence of a failing cosmological model desperate for anything to keep propping it up (dark energy and matter come to mind most prominently). We continue to have very little, if any, physical evidence that black holes can or do exist.

Funny that you should post this literally one day before an actual photo of a real black hole was released! It's from radio telescopes so it's false color of course, but the photo is fascinating. The Guardian has some nice graphics that explain why it looks the way it does: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/apr/10/black-hole-p...

Quote: Originally posted by jack44556677

As for measured relative time, this is another massive claim requiring massive evidence to justify. I will continue to be a skeptic myself until some physical / mechanical clock is tested, and I don't trust NASA to conduct this science any better than the other inept bureaucratic American government/military institutions.

They have tested clocks, and observed time dialation on them. Again, GPS wouldn't work at all without accounting for it. Why would the clock being mechanical be any different? They use atomic clocks because they are far more accurate and the effect being measured is so tiny. The innaccuracy of a mechanical wristwatch, for example, would drown out the tiny signal they are trying to observe. Either that, or they'd have to fly that clock around for much, much longer than the atomic clock before a difference could be seen.
Also, you said your wife does the muon experiment regularly, so presumably you have also seen it and understand what's happening. Is that not convincing evidence for time dialation?
Finally, just because NASA is a government organization doesn't mean 100% of its people are bad at their job. These are highly qualified people that are experts in their field; literal rocket scientists. They understand this stuff far better than we do. If you don't trust scientists to do science, who would you prefer to do these experiments?

Quote: Originally posted by jack44556677

It is also far simpler (and more sane) to suppose that space travel and orbit affect the function of the atomic clock in this way which requires adjustment, rather than concluding that what has altered is "the very flow of time, itself!!".

How exactly do you propose that "space travel and orbit" affects the clock? I'm interested to hear the details. Any good theory needs to be well-defined and rooted in mathematics. It also needs to be able to explain the observations and, ideally, make predictions for new experiments.