Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Thoughts on bomb making

uchiacon - 8-10-2009 at 01:08

I just thought that anyone bored might want to have a flick through this file I found in a dusty area of my harddrive files.
I do not know the source; if somebody could shed any light on them so I can place their name in the book of grudges.
Obviously this has been written by what I'd assume is a cock of a politician, masturbating with pride over the BS collab of a speech he has thrown together.

Remember, You rage, You lose!

There are dozens of sites currently accessible via the Internet purporting to supply instructions for constructing pipe-bombs, time-bombs, fire-bombs, and other "infernal devices." Furthermore, several small publishing houses offer a variety of "bombmaking manuals" which they will sell to anyone "for informational use only." Even the encyclopedia in your local elementary school lists the ingredients of black powder, nitroglycerine, and napalm! The information is out there for whomever wants it.



Many people have this information in their possession. For the most part, they are not "sick" individuals intending to commit crimes and hurt others. . .most are merely curious. Because so much has been said in the media about the abundance of such dangerous information freely available at various websites, many curious people have decided to view these sites for themselves, often downloading or even printing out what they find there. Is this a criminal act? At this point in time, it is not; however, such downloaded information is often reported in the news as being seized from homes raided by the police — "also seized were bombmaking instructions." Needless to say, possession of such materials can reflect poorly on one’s character. Aside from presumptions of ill intent, viewing or ordering such information will probably put you on a list of some sort. The government can monitor selected websites, keeping tabs on whomever accesses them, noting how much time is spent perusing the material, how many times the site is visited, and whether information was downloaded. In recent years, a major publisher of controversial literature was reputed to have voluntarily given a government agency access to its customer list in order to assist with a criminal investigation (this did not actually occur — they simply provided investigators with a list of explosives manuals which had been ordered by a specific suspect) . How would you feel about being on such a list? How would you justify your interest in such matters if questioned by the authorities?



In society’s eyes, bombs are bad. They are the weapons of terrorists and psychopaths. They are automatically equated with "boobytraps", intended to kill or maim whoever stumbles across them first. In society’s eyes, there is no justification whatsoever for possession of bomb components or experimentation with small scale devices. If you are thought to have anything to do with the unlawful use of explosives, you will be feared and hated by society at large. If you are feared and hated by society, the police will feel obligated to take a special interest in monitoring your activities — this often entails interrogating your neighbors and co-workers, asking all sorts of upsetting questions and leaving them with a warning that you could "snap at any time," so they should call the investigators immediately upon seeing anything suspicious. What effect do you think such tactics will have on your reputation in the community? What would they find if they searched your house? Remember, anything can be used to fabricate an I.E.D. (Improvised Explosive Device). Unscrupulous investigators can collect items from every room in your house, including the barn and toolshed, then take a photograph of the assembled collection of pipe fittings, cookware, wiring, batteries, matches, and shotgun shells to print on the front page of tomorrow’s paper as evidence of your wrongdoing. A half empty box of M-80 firecrackers will be reported vaguely to the press as "a dozen small bombs", and an empty plastic container with a broken cap would become "an uncompleted device." Such common items, along with one sheet of downloaded bombmaking instructions found wadded up in the wastebasket, is all a jury needs to see to brand you a terrorist. Even if all charges are eventually dropped, your reputation will be damaged beyond repair, quite possibly resulting in loss of job, eviction, and exclusion.



Now, let us examine the contents of some of the commonly available bombmaking manuals. The Anarchist Cookbook was one of the first, and is considered by many to be a classic. This book was written by the son of a senator under a pseudonym, and its intent was to injure the counter-culture movement of the late sixties. It contains more misinformation and blatant untruths than any other bombmaking manual in circulation. If you follow the instructions within, you will probably blow yourself up or be left with a dangerous dud device. The Poor Man’s James Bond, and its companion volumes, are also considered to be classics. Its author, who also favors a pseudonym, was once active in a terrorist organization (the Minutemen) and is probably a baby-raper. In a television interview, when told that a well-liked high school senior who’d enlisted in the Army Special Forces had died while experimenting with the recipes from his book, he replied "Good! He did something bad and God punished him!" Many of the illustrations look like they were drawn by a kindergartener. The Improvised Munitions Black Books have been copied from original government documents, and are available from a variety of publishers in several versions. They are the source of the majority of bombmaking recipes found on the Internet, which often are incomplete or reworded. Most bombmaking manuals are simply a rehash of the infamous black books. This information was intended for CIA and Special Forces personnel with a need to fabricate explosives from indigenous materials, and often entail mixing corrosive and unstable chemicals in glass jars, which is extremely dangerous as well as very stupid. Because the explosives are intended to be used in an emergency situation, and are often fabricated from substituted or contaminated ingredients, their reliability is variable. Like many such books derived from government documents, it often assumes you have access to military ordinance and demolitions materials. Even these highly regarded manuals regularly depict illustrations of an ungloved hand directly grasping an open pipe as dangerous (and often caustic or toxic) chemicals are dumped therein — no mention is ever made of lining the pipe or brushing off the threads prior to assembly. Two Component High Explosive Mixtures is another example of what was once a government document. It teaches how to make Astrolite, the most powerful non-nuclear explosive known to man. The primary ingredient of Astrolite is a highly corrosive, extremely dangerous liquid known as Anhydrous Hydrazine, which was once used in liquid rocket fuel before being discontinued due to its instability. For some reason, this pamphlet neglects to mention that if you breath any fumes your lungs will instantly melt. Improvised Explosives purportedly was written by a "noted Israeli explosives expert", yet it tells you to make the ignitor for an electric blasting cap out of a length of scrap wiring with a portion of the insulation removed, neglecting to mention either gauge or core material. Instead of detonating instantly, a heavy gauge piece of wire can take a long time to heat up, especially if the current is coming from a single alkaline battery. After waiting for several long minutes, many inexperienced folks might think their charge a dud, only to lose their hands and face while disarming it. Kitchen Improvised Plastic Explosives is another pamphlet that can kill you. It tells you how to mix complex recipes that include corrosives and unstable chemicals on your kitchen stove, using such lab equipment as coffee filters and candy thermometers. Most other bombmaking manuals contain more of the same, with a few notable examples intended primarily for police and military E.O.D. (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) specialists.



Improvised explosives are highly unstable, and are usually used immediately after being made. The longer they are stored, the more unstable they become, often igniting or detonating spontaneously. If exposed to the bare inside of a steel pipe or copper tubing, a reaction can take place forming highly sensitive explosive crystals which can detonate at the slightest vibration. For some reason, most of the books on the subject I’ve read devote less than a paragraph to safety precautions, if they are even mentioned at all. The most commonly found precaution I’ve found is simply a warning stating that "unauthorized manufacture of explosives is dangerous and illegal, and the publisher assumes no responsibility for misuse of this information."

Almost never have I seen a reference to gloves, goggles, apron, mask, or adequate ventilation. . .the importance of which every junior high science student is taught before touching even relatively harmless substances!



As we can clearly see, most bombmaking manuals are a waste of money. The stuff you find on the Internet is often much worse. Much of the information I’ve found has been inaccurate, incomplete, fanciful, extremely dangerous, or even suicidal to implement. Methods that are extremely dangerous for a skilled chemist to perform with professional quality glassware, high powered exhaust fans, and protective "moon suits" are being touted as "easy to mix in a double boiler on your kitchen stove." Many of the ingredients are highly corrosive acids, which a single drop of (on anything but rubberized protective clothing) will eat down to the bone before you can rinse it off. A common reaction to a mixture of explosive ingredients is the release of toxic or corrosive fumes, something which is rarely warned of. Some of the ingredients are highly toxic, and can be absorbed through the skin. Explosive mixtures often generate heat, and need to remain in a beaker within a salted ice bath with the temperature continually monitored — if the temperature rises only a few degrees out of the "safe zone", it can boil over or ignite. Explosive ingredients are, as a rule, unstable, which means they can violently react in the presence of heat, friction, pressure, shock, metal, or a variety of contaminants. The ingredients for primary explosives (used in constructing blasting caps) are extremely sensitive, often reacting to vibration or even indirect sunlight. If you do not know exactly what you are doing, you are foolish to the point of idiocy to take some stranger’s advice on how to mix your own explosives.



Why would anyone provide such information free of charge to the general public? Why would anyone do so knowing full well that the information can be accessed by children? I have come to the conclusion that the persons responsible for such websites either are completely ignorant of the science of explosives and are living in a demented fantasy world; or else they actually intend for people to be injured. Why would someone want to injure an unseen stranger? Perhaps the website was created by some nihilist freak who sees the world at large as his enemy; or perhaps someone with twisted aspirations is deliberately putting out such information with the intent of ridding society of dangerous subversives. Whatever their motivation may be, it is destructive, negative, and evil.



Explosives are not something to be experimented with, and mixing your own explosives from scratch is the utmost pinnacle of stupidity. Every year dozens of people are killed or maimed after following published bombmaking recipes. The techniques "MacGyver" and other televised operatives use are the products of some Hollywood executive’s rich fantasy life, rather than research at Frankfort Arsenal, and do not work. Homemade explosives are not to be used for either pranks or Fourth of July celebrations. Homemade explosives are not meant for excavation or engineering purposes. Homemade explosives are intended for use by skilled military demolitions specialists when they are far behind enemy lines and have no other weapons with which to defend themselves. Homemade explosives are mistrusted and feared by those who must work with them, and are never used unless there is no other choice. Most terrorists refuse to work with homemade explosives, using only top quality military plastique. Most criminal bombings use either commercial dynamite or gunpowder. If experts from the military, terrorist groups, and organized crime all refuse to work with homemade explosives, what business does a novice have mucking around with them? Quality explosives materials are dangerous enough! Furthermore, the legal repercussions of even innocent experimentation can result in multiple felony charges at both the state and federal levels (possession of bomb components, unlicensed possession of explosives, criminal possession of a weapon, possession of an infernal device, reckless endangerment, arson, terrorism, ect.). Do yourself and society a favor and DO NOT PLAY WITH BOMBS!



Source Of That Diatribe

MadHatter - 8-10-2009 at 01:41

Go to: http://www.righteouswarriortemple.org/home.htm

Click on "NOT FOR THE MEEK".
Click on "Enter".
Click on "Thoughts on Bombmaking".

woelen - 8-10-2009 at 01:46

Although some of the words in this post are exaggerated (lungs melting after breathing a whiff of hydrazine, drops of acid eating away flesh to the bones before you can rinse them away) I do agree with the main message of this post. Experimenting with bombs or any device supposed to be a bomb is plain stupid and socially undesirable. It also is very bad for the sake of legit home chemistry. Bomb-making is not home chemistry.

On the other hand, I do see room for experimenting with energetic materials. Some energetic compounds have interesting properties, just like many other chemicals can have interesting properties. Of course, experimenting with energetic materials ALWAYS must be done carefully and in small quantities. If I do such experiment, I only take a few tens of mg of energetic mix, not more. I never store possibly unstable energetic mixes or unstable compounds.

Experimenting with energetic materials is not the same as bomb making. Having succesfully prepared 100 mg of a curious energetic compound is far away from constructing a bomb. Igniting 100 mg of an energetic compound may make a fun demo (there are some on my website), but at that point it stops for me. No constructions with pipes, fuses, igniters etc. No information on that part of the process, just the chemistry.

User - 8-10-2009 at 02:32

Indeed, nevermind me saying stuff that used to be here.
I guess I just raged, that must have blinded me.

[Edited on 8-10-2009 by User]

hissingnoise - 8-10-2009 at 03:13

User, you obviously didn't read uchiacon's post properly. . .

Magpie - 8-10-2009 at 08:57

Quote:

A half empty box of M-80 firecrackers will be reported vaguely to the press as "a dozen small bombs",


Indeed. That is the reason I recently threw away a bag of old fireworks: Roman candles, big red firecrackers, and black cats. I had them stored in my shed with my solvents and acids. I figured that if the authorities ever gave me a visit, they, and the newspaper, would make a big stink out of it. My brother said "Why would they?" I said, "Because they can."

[Edited on 9-10-2009 by Magpie]

hissingnoise - 8-10-2009 at 11:17

It sounds like you're letting paranoia get to you, Magpie.
They're only fireworks after all. . .
But I know the feeling only too well!

uchiacon - 8-10-2009 at 13:46

No, from what I can see experimenting with energetic materials is pretty much making bombs. Not to hurt people, but any device intended to set off a high explosive can be seen as a IED. Police love to see IED's as IED's for killing people.

So hes saying "no, don't make explosives, you're not allowed to and obviously you are too stupid to do it properly." he also goes on to say that all sources on the internet are wrong and incorrect. Also bullshit, I would trust my life with some of the ebooks I read off, and they offer the information required with adaquate precautions regarding sensitivity and synth.

Diatribe

MadHatter - 8-10-2009 at 14:36

M-80s(or any ground-based item containing more than 50 mg of flash powder) are technically
"explosive devices" in the U.S. Here in Maryland, even possession of these can get you a
$25,000 fine and/or 25 years in prison - a felony conviction.

Getting back to the diatribe, there were many fallacies. Claiming that astrolite is the
most powerful, non-nuclear explosive known is incorrect. Its VOD is about 8600 m/sec,
IIRC. Nothing to sneeze at but also, IIRC, HMX is 9110 m/sec. This along with the claims
about acids and hydrazine lead me believe that the author didn't research the topic very well.

DDTea - 9-10-2009 at 16:42

My personal thoughts on bombs:

What some of our colleagues here like to test are probably more accurately described as "charges." A "bomb," in my definition is a weaponized charge--something designed to fragment, to cause material destruction, to maim, or to kill. There is no other purpose for a bomb. Charges have many legitimate uses in scientific study, beyond the simple pleasure of watching one go off. For example, the Magnetic Flux Compression Generator uses energetic materials to generate temporary magnetic fields up to 100 Teslas (!) in strength.

The federal definition is very different, and I'm actually not in the mood to sort through all their legal BS. According to recent laws, the definition of "Weapon of Mass Destruction" has been broadened to include hand grenades, assault rifles, destructive devices (e.g.: M-203 40mm grenade launcher). If you have ever synthesized Acetone Peroxide, you can pat yourself on the back for creating a WMD. The ridiculous thing is that people are being *charged* under this new law. The so-called "Shoe Bomber" was convicted of attempting to use a WMD: explosives packed in his shoes.

UnintentionalChaos - 9-10-2009 at 18:19

Quote: Originally posted by uchiacon  

Remember, You rage, You lose!


What is this, /b/?

nitro-genes - 30-10-2009 at 10:28

I agree that a lot of the material available on the internet regarding energetic materials is potentially life threatening. Anarchist cookbooks are more easily found than porn these days, that is a fact that we have to live with. Another fact is that human nature will ensure that people will remain curious about the very things those books are about. Fireworks are IMO only one step away from high explosives, though this tradition has continued to capture the imagination of people word wide for over a 1000 years. It is only a good thing that fora like this one continue to exist to provide reliable information and experiences of other people to prevent accidents from happening.
In the '70's a book was freely published here in Holland called: "spelen met vuur" (translated as "Playing with fire") written by David Douwes. In his book, he describes how he as a kid started experimenting with potassium chlorate and sulfur (both freely purchasable back then) to produce explosive devices. The book is now forbidden, but this example illustrates that experimenting with energetic materials is not exclusively a product of the internet. How about shows like braniac, mythbusters, etc? Watching the science channel, I can find out how shaped charges work and to produce them, how to setup a fuel-air-explosive, the ingredients of both blackpowder and flashpowder. How to produce hydrogen and oxygen gass, which Becomes a true high explosive when mixed etc, etc...

Making bombs without thinking is dangerous. But then again, many things you do without thinking are potentially dangerous to others, like driving a car, leaving the gas on after cooking, smoking, legalizing the purchase of firearms, joining the army. :D Let's not forget that simple home chemistry, even with the best of intentions, can produce dangerous and toxic by-products. Storage of chemicals, even common ones like bleech, and having kids isn't the best of combinations as well, let alone keeping a loaded firearm in your house. Though they are all legal and accidents continue to happen. I'm not trying to say that experimenting with energetic materials should be legalized, I have always known about the risks involved towards myself, and had a few close encounters as well. Why do people climb the mount everest while knowing it can kill them? Why do motor racers continue to pursue their hobby after breaking almost every bone in their body? The presumption however that someone who is experimenting with energetic materials is a by definition a danger to others is quite a statement. The chance of being killed by your explosives-producing-neighbour is probably several order of magnitudes less than winning the lottery three times in a row. I always made sure that if any risk, it was my own. Who are you to judge me? :)

hissingnoise - 30-10-2009 at 12:09

Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes  
The presumption however that someone who is experimenting with energetic materials is a by definition a danger to others is quite a statement. The chance of being killed by your explosives-producing-neighbour is probably several order of magnitudes less than winning the lottery three times in a row.

If your explosives-producing-neighbour looks like an adherent of 'Sharia Law' you might find yourself wishing you lived elsewhere. . .
And then there was the story fairly recently about a jihadist assassin who was himself an IED.
His attempt on the life of a Saudi prince failed but managed to soil priceless carpets and wallhangings, not to mention various bits of carrera marble.
The device he swallowed looked like a small grenade!
Had his oesophagus been more capacious he might well have succeeded in his mission.
Food for thought, what?




[Edited on 30-10-2009 by hissingnoise]

nitro-genes - 30-10-2009 at 14:55

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  

Food for thought, what?


Thanks for the tip. Next time I see an Arab looking guy with an abnormally large adams apple I'll remember to take cover! :D

Seriously though, I was not refering to terrorism but home experimenting, this was what the orignal article was refering to as well. Terrorism has nothing to do with availability of information about energetic materials or it's precursors. It has everyting to do with the motivation and intents of people and thus are entirely outside the initial scope of this thread.


[Edited on 30-10-2009 by nitro-genes]