Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Solar cells

Solar cells

overseer - 2-1-2004 at 03:13

Not so long ago, experimenting with some natural dye based solar cells became promising and subject of interest in the "mad sci" community. Here are the two papers that might offer some help in getting started . . .

Attachment: Solar1.zip (551kB)
This file has been downloaded 1177 times

Solar cells

overseer - 2-1-2004 at 03:18

The second paper . . .

Attachment: Solar2.zip (453kB)
This file has been downloaded 1045 times

Saerynide - 2-1-2004 at 04:18

I cant open them....

overseer - 2-1-2004 at 07:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Saerynide
I cant open them....

I just re-downloaded both of them and there was no problem opening the files. Try using the right mouse button and "save target as" to save the zip-file to disk.

Saerynide - 2-1-2004 at 08:45

Sorry, I didnt mean I couldnt dl them. I meant the zips seem to be corrupted.

Blind Angel - 2-1-2004 at 10:23

Same thing here, which compressor do you use, maybe it's just a version incompatibility problem

overseer - 3-1-2004 at 02:08

>which compressor do you use, maybe
>it's just a version incompatibility problem

The files were packed with WinZip 8.0. I see others have problems too, so I arranged with Saerynide to email the files to him. If they arrive alive and well, I hope he could re-post them. If the problems remain, I'll try to find another computer to post the files from, right after the weekend. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Saerynide - 3-1-2004 at 02:55

Here they are:

first file

second file

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Saerynide]

Blind Angel - 3-1-2004 at 10:40

winzip 8.0 seem to be the problem

most compressing tool aren't retrocompatible (like winrar 3.0 isn't compatible with winrar 2.5)

indigofuzzy - 2-10-2006 at 06:22

So... no comments on the content of the files. I find them intriguing myself, and may, in the near future indulge my curiousity and build on of these organic solar panels.
BTW, I had no problem at all opening the Zip archives on my Mac

Cloner - 4-10-2006 at 07:20

hmmm... i can't dl the files unfortunately, but i have some experience on organic solar cells. The bottom line is you need transparent conducting material which can survive a temperature of 400 degrees or something at which you sinter the oxide. This works with several oxides, the best of which I found was titanium oxide, but zinc oxide functions reasonably at equal conditions. This is, if I used commercialy available conducting glass. Which is pretty OTC allright - but also expensive.

For DIY production, the transparant conducting material has been a problem: glass is the only thing that comes close and you need to apply a layer of doped SnO on it. Even that isn't a problem using a spraying device, but I never succeeded in making the layer homogeneous and well conducting (way too many ohms even though it was conducting). I used a bunsen burner and microscope slides for this, the microscope slides easily cracking at the temperature change that results from the spraying. For better results, an oven that can reach 500-600 degrees must probably be used.

[Edited on 4-10-2006 by Cloner]

IrC - 4-10-2006 at 09:53

I get tripod error on both files in second set. However I d/l'ed the first 2 zips and they unzip with winzip 7 just fine, and open with acrobat reader 6.0.05 just fine. No problemo.

cabrero - 1-12-2006 at 08:31

I dont understant why is necessary to use a TCO (transparent conducting oxide), you can obtain similar transmitances with a simple metallic grid, or by painting the electrode (draw a grid) with graphite or metallic paste. And its by far more cheap and easy.

In order to obtain high efficiencies, its a must to use a Ruthenium-complex dye-sensitized TiO2 and a eletrolite system based on I-/I3-.
I havent seen significative efficiencies with natural dyes, or other electrolite systems.

Quince - 7-12-2006 at 00:39

Solar electricity is another environmentalist scam. All the energy research money should go towards sources that actually can provide enough energy to sustain progress, like the ITER project (iter.org), not ones that will make so little that we'll have to regress, like solar, wind power, and other such maggot fodder. /vomits

[Edited on 7-12-2006 by Quince]

chromium - 7-12-2006 at 02:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Quince
Solar electricity is another environmentalist scam. All the energy research money should go towards sources that actually can provide enough energy to sustain progress, like the ITER project (iter.org), not ones that will make so little that we'll have to regress, like solar, wind power, and other such maggot fodder. /vomits

Do not know about wind but solar power can be very useful. If we could convert all solar radiation from 1 m2 with 90% efficiency then we would get nearly 1 KW of power. Most private homes have enoguh area to get tens or hundreds of kilowatts even if efficiency would be only 30%.

cabrero - 7-12-2006 at 04:35

The Key here is to find a easy and cheap method to capture part of this ~ 1KW/m2 of solar radiation.
Even a small efficiency, say ~5%, could solve all energy demands if the solar cell is cheap and stable;
Silicon involves expensive steps of manufacture, and the cheapest approaches tried by both cost of manuracture and materials used, Cu2O and CdS/Cu2S, result in low efficiency the former and low stability the latter.

randolph_carter - 19-2-2007 at 12:57

well, hey now....

this dreamer has been producing ALL of his farm, office and home needs via solar and hydroelctricity for over THREE DECADES!!!
not a single outage the entire time...
can your utility do that?
i think not!!!
reliability is an order of magnitude better.....

as to cost....

you obviously have not added ALL the costs up....
i can understand that the gov does it's best to hide all of the costs they can.....

like the subsidies for nuclear , oil companies, overzealous tyrant's wars over energy, and a million other hidden costs that YOU YES YOU pay for at the pump, at tax time and everytime you buy a product that is made with "subsidized" traditional energy sources.....

how do you think the national debt has bloated from ~1 trillion us$ under carter (pre 1st oil shortage/war...)to it's current get this....

$8.75 TRILLION !!!!

check the numbers and you will find that year after year the republicans (note-clinton actually only ended on a +.32% increase in debt for his 2 terms...) have increased our debt about 9.5% per year and strangely enough it was largely to "subsidize/strongarm" for the tratditional energy/mil industrial complex concerns (GE comes to mind immediately....) in the us of not a.......

NOT on social programs....
NOT on the miniscule amount spent on "alternative energy research"......
NOT on health care.......
NOT on roads......
maybee some on pigs and their wasteful ways.....

nuclear power facility security costs PAID for yearly by the us amount to more than ALL solar and alternative energy subsidies, period!!!!

Hell the gov even pays for the boxcars that ship coal to the electric plants, through subsidies!!!!!

so maybee it is about time for MORE subsidies for alt energy....
and the removal of all "hidden" subsidies for traditional energy sources.....

if we had not of went down this thorny path, we would not be in such a sorry state of affairs in amerika.....

swims would not be killing people in i-not-raq, they could be here throwing the tyrants down.....

or maybee that is the plan eh?????

revolutions always start in the middle/lower-middle classes.......

guess who's dying in the sand........

not bush-swims..........

jus a ravin my 64,382 cents worth inta the sat birds eye in da pm.........

SAM4CH - 18-9-2007 at 05:18

I faced a problem in my SnO2 layer, when it is good transperent its resistance is high, and If less efficiency with thick layer it is good conductive!
How can I reach good conductive with good transperent?

Eclectic - 18-9-2007 at 06:25

4-5% Sb dopant...

SAM4CH - 18-9-2007 at 11:41

How can I? procedure, Sb material!!?

Xenoid - 18-9-2007 at 12:15

There is a long, convoluted and I believe ultimatley fruitless discussion on producing conducting SnO2 + Sb layers on titanium, toward the end of the PbO2 anode thread. I think it starts about here;

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2465&a...

but it may be earlier. Basically you can start with Sn/Sb solder.

Regards, Xenoid

Eclectic - 18-9-2007 at 14:08

Hey! My solder chloride experiments bore fruit! I've gotten 25 lbs of high purity SnCl2 from scrap lead free solder. Also SbCl3 solution ready to distill.

I just haven't gotten around to making conductive SnO2 yet, at least not on purpose, but there is plenty coating a lot of my glassware that I have to scrub off with Scotchbrite.

Xenoid - 18-9-2007 at 14:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Eclectic
Hey! My solder chloride experiments bore fruit! I've gotten 25 lbs of high purity SnCl2 from scrap lead free solder. Also SbCl3 solution ready to distill.

Sorry Eclectic, I didn't mean to deride your efforts, its just that I was trying to do MnO2 coating at the time and I wasn't really following the Sn/Sb angle.

It would possibly be a good idea for you to start a new thread outlining your experiments using the solder approach. The ability to coat glass with conductive SnO2 opens up all sorts of areas for the amateur experimenter. I'd certainly be interested.

Regards, Xenoid

Eclectic - 18-9-2007 at 15:14

So many projects, so little time. It may be a while. I'm mainly into the chemistry and recycling to pure material. Anyway, everything you need is in that old thread, up to the point of actually forming a good coating. I'll post when I get the cooking procedure worked out.

Homemade Grätzel Solar Cell

Aqua_Fortis_100% - 1-1-2009 at 19:41

Hello.

After some more than a year, I have some questions about this stuff.

A friend of mine recently told me about this cell through this link (portuguese): http://www.cienciaviva.pt/docs/celulafotovoltaica.pdf and seems to be easy to make (except from SnO2 doped layer)..

So about the hardest part: The semicondutor SnO2 doped oxide can be of the same kind on both glass plates or do I need to use diferent doped SnO2 (n type and p type)?

Anyone sucess in making such solar cell?

Thanks

not_important - 1-1-2009 at 23:12

The front layer is conductive SnO2, and I believe plays no PV other than being a transparent conductor. The back layer does play an active part in the PV process, and must be carbon or platinum on SnO2. In both cases the doping of the ITO or SnO2:F layer is to get to conduct.

Note that the TiO2 is not just ceramics grade stuff, but Degussa P25 nano-particle material which has a high anatase phase content, or be formed in place from a titanium alkoxide.

Some info on it here:

http://www.tkk.fi/Units/AES/studies/dis/halme.pdf

http://www.sardegnaricerche.it/documenti/13_143_200811201257...

http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/101072

http://dssc.blog.sohu.com/62907297.html

http://www.solideas.com/solrcell/cellkit.html

http://ice.chem.wisc.edu/Catalog/SciKits.htm#Anchor-Nanocrys...
which includes a parts list and some suppliers.

another kit
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/103792958/Dye_Sensitized_Sola...

bquirky - 2-1-2009 at 05:50

Hello,

Ive not attempted creating any kind of transparent conductive coating (i have enough trouble making any kind of coating conductive

but are electrolytes completely out of the question for this kind of application ?

perhaps a very corse grid like current colector with the whole pannel immersed in an electrolyte that is non reactive with the PV cell ?

Just thinking outloud.

not_important - 2-1-2009 at 07:33

It already has an electrolyte, a non-aqueous iodide-iodine containing one; where are you putting the second one? Water and O2 degrade the system, the anatase TiO2 is good at oxidising organics in the presence of O2 and light. Read the articles linked to at http://www.solideas.com/solrcell/coatglas.html#Articles

DSSC_diagram.jpg - 65kB

bquirky - 3-1-2009 at 02:07

ahh i see.

ChrisWhewell - 25-12-2009 at 07:53

http://www.teralab.co.uk/Experiments/Conductive_Glass/Conduc...