Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Making a revised 'Anarchist Cookbook'

Making a revised 'Anarchist Cookbook'

Anders Hoveland - 10-7-2010 at 15:37

thought maybe members could collaborate to make a new section on energetic compounds in the famed 'anarchist cookbook'. Whenever young adults want to experiment, they typically type this into a search, so it would make sense that, if one wanted to disperse information, this would be a good route. propose that new more "atypical" compounds be added. such as various simple nitro-alkanes. the recipes should be as simple as possible so that one need not have intimate knowledge of biochemistry to carry it out. Also the recipes should be adapted so that distillation is not required in any of the recipes, and common kitchen ware can be used instead of specialized labware. emphasis on nitrations using nitrogen dioxide instead of the typical concentrated acids, which are both more dangerous and harder to come by. I think less experienced readers would find a simplified synthesis of a tetrazole refreshing, when all they are aware of is nitro -glycerine , nitro aromatics, and mixtures of oxidizers and fuels. I found the book's recipe for "plastic explosivs" ,involving merely chlorate mixed with wax and petrol gelly, particularly pathetic. The NI3 that it shows how to make is not particularly practical either. While the less watered down versions have acetone and H MTD peroxides, this is still overly basic and limited.

Also, if anyone is aware of good sources of "how-to recipe"energetic compound information available online, please post it. There seems to be very limited information
(of decent quality) available. The explosives/weapons forum, and then bombshock forums are gone. ScienceMadness seems to be the last 'bastion of enlightenment'.

[Edited on 10-7-2010 by Anders Hoveland]

watson.fawkes - 10-7-2010 at 16:17

Quote: Originally posted by Anders Hoveland

The explosives/weapons forum, and then bombshock forums are gone. ScienceMadness seems to be the last 'bastion of enlightenment'.

I am certain you are able to start your own forum in which to discuss an recipe book of explosives for clueless newbies that is equally as credible as the original.

As you might tell, I have rather different notions of enlightenment than you do.

bbartlog - 10-7-2010 at 17:15

It isn't clear to me that lowering the (intellectual, technical) barriers to entry is a worthwhile goal when it comes to making high explosives. I suppose if there were some specific notion of supplanting a popular but dangerous primary with one that was safer but less well known, there'd be something to say for that; but that's not the original Anarchist's Cookbook. If people actually need to have the patience to read the COPAE or something similar to get started with energetic materials that seems all to the good.

[Edited on 11-7-2010 by bbartlog]

len1 - 10-7-2010 at 19:44

But then the forum would not look so active.

Theres a saying - measure 7 times, cut once.

It should be extended -

Think 10 times, post once.

Even better, get some education, think ten times, then post.

[Edited on 11-7-2010 by len1]

rrkss - 10-7-2010 at 21:02

I don't like this idea at all. Energetics are not something that people who don't have the training or knowledge to handle should be playing with. Seems like a great idea to atract kewls, cause them to hurt themselves and stiffen legislation against this hobby.

Polverone - 10-7-2010 at 23:22

Oh, really now.

-=HeX=- - 20-7-2010 at 10:38

Actually, sorry to argue with the site owner here...

But, Anders KINDA has a point here.

IF the new people had a good, solid guide that was
A: Reliable,
B: Safety conscious
and
C: Written by experienced people

we would then see far less 'kid blows self up' crap going on, and the future generation would be stronger in sciences. At least, that is my opinion. However... Naming it after the ACB is a bad idea...

unionised - 21-7-2010 at 08:15

Can we do a combination of the anarchists cook book and this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lies-Tell-Small-Kids/dp/034083...

The WiZard is In - 21-7-2010 at 10:37

Quote: Originally posted by -=HeX=-

Actually, sorry to argue with the site owner here...

But, Anders KINDA has a point here.

IF the new people had a good, solid guide that was
A: Reliable,
B: Safety conscious
and
C: Written by experienced people

----------
Written by experienced people

There are libraries full the them.

The 1943 Laboratory Manual of Explosive Chemistry comes
upon my mind as a good book to start with.

Curious — it pops-up not when I search for it here in Science
Most Mad. Can it be my fellow Brahman's are not aware of its
existence?!

Then there dobe a SL of — picks 5-books at random off the shelves —

Seymour Lecker Improvised Explosives : How to make them
Seymour Lecker Shock Sensitive Industrial Materials
David Harber The Advanced Anarchist Arsenal : Recipes for improvised incendiaries and explosives
Robert Wells The Anarchists Handbook
Ranger Benson Homemade C-4 : A recipe for survival

For macabre amusement I recommend —

John Minnery's 5-volume How to Kill.

As Canadian Minnery (where his books cannot be sold) said on a TV interview —

They how how to kill books - not how to murder.

The WiZard is In - 21-7-2010 at 13:31

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

[Books] Written by experienced people

There are libraries full the them.

franklyn - 22-7-2010 at 12:15

Surprising this thread has not yet been terminated " with extreme prejudice ".
My 2 cents are that everything is already in a written form. Practical chemistry
done safely is most wanting of discussion. A bibliography with this specific
emphasis might fill a need. Still a work in progress though _
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2529

.

Hoveland - 23-7-2010 at 00:03

Except...
"One thing, there is not going to be a focus on energetic materials."

(quote from the opening offer of the topic: 'A project everyone can pitch in on!')

Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely?

I am sure there are at least some reactions that can make energetic compounds, and pose very minimal risk to the experimenter, especially if certain useful precursors are available. And of course, this is presuming that only gram sized quantities would be made.

[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Hoveland]

Sedit - 23-7-2010 at 05:29

Quote: Originally posted by Hoveland

Except...
Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely?
[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Hoveland]

Ill suggest it. No it can not be done safely. Anyone looking for the AC does not know enough about chemistry to perform any operation correctly and safely. I have years of first hand experiance with chemist and I know enough now to know I should avoid energetics at all cost. Its not that I dont feel I could safely accomplish the synthesis with limbs intack its just that after a while you understand accidents can and will happen and risk vs reward does not measure up.

A begginner in chemistry does not have this level of risk vs reward and can only see the far sighted goal of things going boom. Ask my old freind ::insert name:: and the local police why there was a large hole in the roof of his house. He's lucky hes in jail and not dead. I still dont know what caused it but I can assure you from the damage done it was a pretty sharp explosion. There was a well defined hole in the roof roughly 20ft around.

The WiZard is In - 23-7-2010 at 06:10

Quote: Originally posted by Hoveland

Except...
"One thing, there is not going to be a focus on energetic materials."

(quote from the opening offer of the topic: 'A project everyone can pitch in on!')

Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely?

Problem all the chemistry knowledge in the world is not a
replacement for an attitude of safety. And as always
familiarity breeds contempt.

Remember safety is simply -

What can go wrong?
What happens IF something goes wrong?

And this from low explosives - pyrotechnics.

9 Killed as Illegal Fireworks Shed Explodes in Ohio
New York Times 21v85

YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio, May 20 (UPI)

A shed full of what local authorities said were illegal fireworks exploded today killing
nine people and leaving two big craters.

The bodies were scattered across a wide area of Beaver Township outside of
Youngstown.

A search of the area determined that nine people were killed in the explosion, which left
one crater 10 feet across and up to 5 feet deep, and another 8 feet across and 3 feet
deep.

“They haven’t identified anybody yet” officially, Sheriff Nemaeth said. “Its Not A
Matter Of Being Burned, It’s A Matter Of Being In Very Small Pieces.”

Fireworks bootlegging is under federal probe.
Chicago Tribune 24iv83

THE SHED behind Theodore Boruch’s bungalow in the west end of Hobart, Ind.
Disappeared in two rapid explosions.

One Severed His Legs At The Knees; The Other Catapulted His
Flaming Body 150 Feet Through A Stand Of Trees And Into A Field.

Fireworks factory blast kills 11
‘Bodies lying everywhere’
New York Post, 28v83

BENTON, Tenn. (UPI) ---
An unlicensed fireworks factory exploded on a farm yesterday, killing at least 11 people
in a series of blasts that formed a mushroom cloud and hurled bodies into trees and
through the roof of a nearby house.

“We Have Counted 10 Torsos, But It Is A Pretty Gory Scene And
There Are Parts Of Bodies. There May Possible Be More Bodies,
There Was Not A Singe Body The Was Intact,” [County Sheriff Frank] Payne
said.

chemrox - 24-10-2013 at 00:40

so the point is "shit happens?"

If there are so damned many good refs why not post a few here?

IrC - 24-10-2013 at 19:02

"Naming it after the ACB is a bad idea... "

OK, what about 'Prill This Book'?

Pyro - 25-10-2013 at 04:46

Why not have a forum subsection similar to ''Prepublications'' where we post guides for all simple chemical procedures such as recrystallization, simple distillation, the preparation of simple chemicals,...
Collect them all in one place, then when a beginner has a problem he/she can ask the members right under the procedure to be answered by anybody on SM.

I have never seen a system like this and I think it would be very successful. Woelen's website is a great place for beginners, but does not have ''customer support''.

Ideas? comments?

OH, we can also include guides to simple pyrotechnics such as black powder, thermite, ... to lure people here to then get interested by the other stuff. (which is mostly how it happens)

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Pyro]

elementcollector1 - 26-10-2013 at 17:53

Quote: Originally posted by Pyro

Why not have a forum subsection similar to ''Prepublications'' where we post guides for all simple chemical procedures such as recrystallization, simple distillation, the preparation of simple chemicals,...
Collect them all in one place, then when a beginner has a problem he/she can ask the members right under the procedure to be answered by anybody on SM.

I have never seen a system like this and I think it would be very successful. Woelen's website is a great place for beginners, but does not have ''customer support''.

Ideas? comments?

OH, we can also include guides to simple pyrotechnics such as black powder, thermite, ... to lure people here to then get interested by the other stuff. (which is mostly how it happens)

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Pyro]

I agree with this - this would have helped quite a bit back when I had just joined.

Finnnicus - 26-10-2013 at 20:19

As an [almost] complete noob at practical chemistry (<strike>arguably</strike> theoretical chemistry too), this would be greatly appreciated.

About the revised ACB, I once went looking for the book, which I found and preceded get all kinds of ideas. If I hadn't have found this thread, I probably would have hurt myself quite badly.

Edit: By the way all, that's how I got an interest in chemistry. Through this site!

[Edited on 27-10-2013 by Finnnicus]

elementcollector1 - 26-10-2013 at 20:29

By the time I had read the original Anarchist's Cookbook, I'd already known enough to see at least the chemical 'recipes' were completely made-up.
I'd be glad to write about some of these processes, but where would the thread go? Would it be stickied in Chemistry in General?

Pyro - 27-10-2013 at 04:56

I was thinking a whole new section that works like Prepublication.
This way questions can be asked in the same thread, limiting confusion

Agricola - 8-11-2013 at 17:11

I believe nonsense titles like the Anarchist Cookbook (AC) were made up to bury under disinformation no-nonsense works such as Setting Fires with Electrical Timers since it is impractical today to really ban a book like the latter. From this point of view, the AC is good at doing its job and doesn't need improvement.

chemrox - 9-11-2013 at 00:00

I like it. In a free society all information is available to everyone. Sadly most of us don't want to be free and especially don't want others to be so.

TheGhostKing - 27-2-2014 at 09:40

I think this is a OK idea. Mostly because I only got really interested in chemistry though energetic compounds. It should me the potential for chemistry and how given the right stuff you can make pretty much anything.