Sciencemadness Discussion Board

The Wump Incident

j_sum1 - 20-2-2019 at 06:09

This is not some b-grade knock-off of a Robert Ludlum novel; despite the title.

(Although that could be a good Whimsy thread by itself... Describe your day in the lab as though it was a Robert Ludlum novel. "The Surfactant Instigation" in which I begin to wash a pile of glassware.)



No. Thus is the Wump Incident -- an event that I alluded to recently in the bad days in the lab and with glassware thread. Let me cut straight to the morals of the story.


Ok. Now for the story.
I recently purchased some Red P which I know will be useful for so many things -- although I don't have any immediate plans other than preparing a sample for the element collection. Because it is something that I have not really handled before, I decided to conduct a couple of small experiments to get familiar with its properties.

I figured its power as a reducer was a sensible place to start so I reached for an oxidant to compliment. The wise among you are already rolling your eyes and thinking, "You did what?" To my utter idiotic shame, yes I did. First jar in my oxidiser storage was some potassium chlorate.

I put maybe 0.1g of each on a brick outside, mixed loosely and ignited it with some tissue paper. It gave a very satisfying "wump" noise, and, being dark, a really interesting incandescence. Great! I thought. Maybe scale up a fraction. A small spoonful of each reactant on some tissue paper. Mix. Twist. Ignite the paper and stand clear. This time there was a significant percussion and a lovely fireball. I stamped out the grass fires and then chatted to my wife who happened to see it through the window. I packed everything away and called it a night.

A couple of evenings later, we had just finished dinner on the deck. The sun was about to go down and the kids were about to get ready for bed. This can be quite the process in my household so I figured some incentives were in order. I promised to demonstrate the wump after they were ready. This kind of thing is not unusual in my house. My son (7) in particular loves science. He always asks really perceptive questions. And he has a decent knowledge base. The week earlier I promised to show him a metal he had not seen before and his immediate response was, "Is it sodium?" He can probably name about half the 118 elements and could tell you either the symbols or some properties of many of them.

Anyway, back to the story. I figured I would be a good chemist this time, actually calculate some stoichiometry and weigh things and mix properly rather than randomly shove stuff together. Still working sub-gram scale, I weighed out an 0.88g charge into a tiny 10mL beaker and began to mix with a glass rod. This was a fraction larger than my previous attempt and I thought I was being sensible and cautious. For some reason I did not even consider that my mixture might be friction-sensative.

No prize for guessing what happened next. The explosion was significant. My first conscious thought was "That was stupid -- should have anticipated that one."
My second thought was that although my ears were ringing, I could still hear fine and I knew I had not blown my ear-drums. Then I saw blood on my hand where there used to be a beaker and blood splattered on the bench and floor. I immediately clenched my fist to put pressure on the bleeding, raised my arm above my head and proceeded upstairs to where my family had thought the worst. A shout-out to wearing safety glasses too.

Pain kicked in, but I was not going to open my hand to see the damage. I picked an inopportune time for my little stunt: Ambulance staff were spread thin that evening due to a number of simultaneous serious events. Nevertheless, paramedics were there within half an hour. That half hour seemed really long. I could not sit still. I was told not to take any painkillers; although I doubt they would have had much effect in that time. The pain ramped up. I thought of Yamato71. I discovered a couple of little cuts and bruises elsewhere on my body. And I breathed thankfulness that it was just my hand. My eyes, ears and face were unscathed.

I was triaged at the emergency department of the local hospital. The hardest thing was explaining over and over again what had happened and justifying being a hobby chemist with what were quite obviously dangerous chemicals (which nobody could write down correctly or had any clue what they were.) I ended up saying that they were essentially the same ingredients found in matches, which I know is streching things somewhat, but better than "potassium" and "pyrous" that was being recorded. How the hell did I not think of friction sensativity? Somehow, when people roll their eyes at you, it is a lot more difficult to take when you know you have done something doofus.

As I said, it was a busy night at A&E. The ambos had bandaged my hand well and I did get a brief glimpse of the damage. Pain was subsiding. There were 20 people already in the waiting room when I was ushered there and a whole bunch of more serious cases behind the closed doors. Waiting, waiting, waiting.

Just on midnight, five hours after the incident I was brought in to see a doctor, and to explain the story again. My hand was brown. Some was blood, but a lot of it was unreacted phosphorus. I got to thinking what things might have been like if the reaction had gone to completion. There were dozens of tiny cuts and about half a dozen bigger ones. I could see only one piece of glass. It was not very clear how many of the bigger cuts, if any, still contained glass. With all the mess, it was not even clear what was cut and what was dried blood and red phosphorus. After some discussion, the doctor agreed to let me bathe my own hand. Once again, I was thankful. Things could have gone a lot lot worse.

After some Xrays, it was clear that I would need to be admitted and that I would need surgery to properly clean the wound and remove all the glass. Not actually too many fragments present, but some were sizable and lodged quite deeply. This was not going to get done on the spot with some local anaesthetic.

It was 2:00am before I was on the orthopedic ward, in bed, with all the paperwork completed. The bed was ridiculously unconfortable. There were the usual hospital noises of machines beeping and people scurrying. Plus other noises. The guys in the beds next to me were half deaf and talked loudly and crassly at half-past three. I guess they couldn't sleep either. One mentioned, "before I got me leg cut off". I thought of Arkoma.

Dawn was a parade of nurses briefing for the shift change-over. This was followed by a parade of doctors, one of whom explained to me what I already knew. I asked about his run-sheet for the day. It had been a busy night. I would go into theatre some time after two young kids, one of whom had impaled his foot. As it turned out, I would be after a collar-bone reconstruction too.

Lots of waiting. I got to wear one of those backless surgical gowns all hungry day. They pumped fluids and prophylactic antibiotics into me. I got to drag my tubes and drips to the toilet several times. With the backless gown. Waiting. People came and left all day. Both of the night-talkers were amputees. They were also day-talkers. I had Youtube and ear plugs. With the arrival of the evening meal I was told that I had been bumped to the next day. Mr collar-bone-reconstruction arrived. He had titanium plates and screws and a lovely family and a mouth like a sewer. He had earned his hardware in a pub fight the night before. He and Amputee1 talked expletive politics loudly for four hours. Then he was discharged. His lovely wife came to pick him up.

I did get surgery the middle of the next day. All the glass is gone. There is no vascular damage. There is no nerve damage. One tendon is slightly compromised and has been stitched. It will heal fully. I have done that particular injury before. My lovely family came to pick me up. And, apart from the anaesthetic, it looks like I will get through the entire experience without needing a single painkiller. Again, I am very thankful.

So, dramatic and undoubtedly very stupid. Annoying and frustrating. But ultimately very little harm done. Potentially, it is a dangerous hobby. I have to walk away with some lessons learned.

I don't know if I can justify hobby chemistry to other people. I don't have to justify it to myself. I didn't break my bones in a drunken brawl. I did not lose my leg from overeating and obesity-induced diabetes. I am much more like the excited kid who stood on something sharp. Preventable, yes. But worthy of criticism for my hobby? Probably not.

I do need to be thankful. There is a lot that could have gone worse. And there are a lot of people who don't have it so good.

This thread definitely belongs in Beginnings. I am still learning. Long may it stay that way.

2019-02-18 22.25.46.jpg - 393kB 2019-02-18 23.33.53.jpg - 241kB 2019-02-18 23.39.10.jpg - 626kB

[edit, pix reordered]

[Edited on 20-2-2019 by j_sum1]

DavidJR - 20-2-2019 at 06:21

Ouch! I'm glad you are doing okay now, however.

Sulaiman - 20-2-2019 at 06:35

I am glad that it turned out OK.

As a consolation;
within hours of you posting the first x-ray photograph I was digging some Pt cured silicone rubber out of a 100ml beaker,
the rubber was really stubborn - but nothing can out-stubborn me, so I got more energetic,
just as I was poking and scrapin I thought of your x-ray and calmed down,
potentially saving me from a similar injury.
So, thanks for posting.

About two years ago I bought myself a cute little pestle and mortar,
when it arrived I wanted to 'test' it,
I had some fine magnesium powder and some KMnO4 crystals so I ground the crystals to a fine powder and mixed in the magnesium powder,
I had made this type of flash powder many times as a youth so I called my family and a visitor to watch the flash,
WOW ! what a difference fine particle size and good mixing makes - BOOM !
(the powder mixture was un-confined ! )
So many ways to mess up :)

fusso - 20-2-2019 at 06:36

OMG why were you wearing shoes on a bed/ward?! Σ(゚Д゚|||)

12thealchemist - 20-2-2019 at 07:42

This reminds me a similar incident many many years ago in a polystyrene (unexpanded) container that shattered rather rapidly. I was more or less unhurt (plastic shrapnel doesn't penetrate very far), but I learned my lesson.

Ubya - 20-2-2019 at 09:13

i think that eventually eberybody will have a similiar story to tell. it's quite easy to screw up something, not always we are able to think clearly of EVERYTHING that could happen, but when it happens it could go "well" like you or me in the past (a diy rocket motor in a metal case exploded right in front of my face the exact moment i tried to light it, the metal case went just over my head at bullet speed, 10cm lower and liveleak would have another gore video), but could go terribly wrong, and maybe could be the last thing someone did

Loptr - 20-2-2019 at 09:14

Wow, j_sum1! Please be careful there buddy!

You made a composition called Armstrongs Mixture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong%27s_mixture

Quote:

Because of its sensitivity to shock, friction and flame, Armstrong's mixture is an extremely dangerous explosive. Only about 10 mg of it is used per item of consumer fireworks. Depending on composition, conditions and quantity, Armstrong's mixture can explode violently in an enclosed space.[3] Due to extreme sensitivity to friction, mixing dry potassium chlorate and red phosphorus will most likely lead to an explosion, hence the ingredients are usually combined in a slurry with water, formed into the final product (for example, single drops onto paper for "paper caps") and allowed to dry. To decrease sensitivity, oil can be added.

Herr Haber - 20-2-2019 at 09:20

I'm glad you're ok.
(Great writing style by the way)

If your son decides to pick up the hobby you can probably be assured that he'll stay away from so called "death mixes" :)

Tsjerk - 20-2-2019 at 09:24

Too bad to hear! Happily you will probably be fine without too much permanent damage. I'm scared of Armstrongs, I never even bothered lighting it, I just poked it with a stick.

Magpie - 20-2-2019 at 09:28

I am happy to hear that you are OK and that you have learned an indelible lesson about chemistry. I was worried about having white P around due to the fire hazard so converted it all to PCl5.

I don't do explosives or fireworks since my youth when I made dangerous pipe bombs. But I have had a few close calls. A phosphorus fire in my hood was illuminating but mostly I was worried about the voluminous white smoke billowing out my hood fan exhaust. If an alarmed neighbor had called the fire dept I would have had an awful experience like Victor Deeb did with his baby bottle lab.

I do experiment with high pressure which is potentially very dangerous. When working with hot caustic I do wear maximum PPE and have the hood glass down. Caustic scars on my hood walls are the evidence of things not going well.

I have taken an hiatus away from chemistry to learn mechatronics. But I should be back in the lab by May or so.

When I thought I had splashed some con HCl into my eye I came up with a story to explain this to the medical people: "I was cleaning carbonate stains off the inside of my toilet bowl." Incidentally this does work well.

Vomaturge - 20-2-2019 at 10:53

Woelen was also caught off guard by this mix, although it sounds like he had more of a 'whoosh' and less of a 'bang', and no glass fragments were involved.

I guess I've technically made a mistake with it too, by tapping a roll of toy caps (stabilized Armstrong mix) with a stone at age 8. Instant ear ringing. My mom had been hearing me using the cap gun, but came running after hearing a much louder boom. I think I cooked half a dozen caps with that one inpact, in spite of them being desensitized with glue and protected by layers of paper.

The power and sensitivity of many chlorate-fuel mixtures, and the flammability and moderate ignition point of phosphorous would suggest that the combination could be dangerous. But at first glance it wouldn't seem that it would be sensitive enough to ignite from gentle mixing! It's been suggested that phosphorus has a trace of phosphoric acid in it that helps provoke the chlorate.

I can only imagine how hard that was to explain to the doctors, and am happy it hasn't led to legal issues so far. Also glad you will likely make a complete recovery, I hope it's a quick one too.

mayko - 20-2-2019 at 15:43

Yikes - that looks worse than the time I had glass tubing snap in my hand. Here's hoping it mends up fast.

In other news, we used to have a farmcat named Wump. His "incidents" usually involved camping under the birdfeeder or crapping in the milking room.

GrayGhost- - 20-2-2019 at 16:40

Well I also had an accident a week ago, in my attempt to produce phenylacetamide with a steel tube that rotated inside a handmade oven, the reaction took 4 hours pprox, after cooling try to open the stopper, and emanated SH2, the next day I tried to open and the same smelling my workshop.
Then I went to the river in my city where there were no neighbors nearby and I opened the stopper. A product geyser came out violently and splashed my hair, face and clothes. The shit is mainly ammonium sulfide. the first two days was unbearable and almost a reason for marriage divorce, my clothes are contaminated, the smell in my hair still lingers and I contaminate my pillow. I have postponed the trial. Fortunately, no bodily injury occurred, underestimate the danger.

Glad that you are ok!

sodium_stearate - 21-2-2019 at 07:08

Thank you for posting that story, and the pictures
of your hand and the Xray.

I am glad that it was a relatively minor injury.

It could happen to any of us.

Stuff like this is always a not-so-subtle reminder
of the forces contained within the ingredients we
occasionally work with.

That's quite a picture you paint of the other guys
in your hospital room. Takes all kinds, I guess...

TheMrbunGee - 21-2-2019 at 07:43

Well, looks like the armstrong made your arm weak.

My worst mistake was mixing Manganese heptoxide with hexamine, but that ended with ringing in the ears only.

I guess someone has to make mistakes for others to learn from.

Stay safe!

Texium - 21-2-2019 at 08:09

Wow. I'm glad that you're alright, J. It definitely could have been much worse. I have to say though, your storytelling is absolutely masterful!

When first reading it, I thought your inclusion of the imagery about the other people in the hospital (the barfight guy, the amputees, and the kid) was just to set the scene, but when you brought it back around to make a point at the end, of how injuries that are sustained in "normal" ways are just as (if not more) unnecessary and reckless than what happened to you, that was really spectacular.

Tsjerk - 21-2-2019 at 08:39

Definitely kudos for the story telling.

Endo - 21-2-2019 at 15:41

As a teen I was loaned a book on demonstrations by an awesome high school teacher. I made a lot of the pop style Armstrong mix twisted up in paper as a after reading the section about Armstrong's mix. I never blew myself up but when grinding the components together I always did it under a layer of acetone. It would dry out after separating in hours rather than days...

arkoma - 21-2-2019 at 18:21

Glad your Ok, but had a good larf at "Then I thought of Arkoma". This is as I sit here distilling ether and smoking......................


*Edit* In my kitchen LOL

[Edited on 2-22-2019 by arkoma]

diddi - 22-2-2019 at 01:17

"That's awesome Dad. Can we do it again tomorrow night?"

greenlight - 22-2-2019 at 09:44

Lucky that it was such a small amount you prepared, that Armstrong's mix is some nasty shit for something that can be mixed together so simply.
Those temporary lapses of judgement can change your life forever with energetic materials.

One question, what did the hospital staff think of your injuries, were they suspicious?
I have always thought the authorities would be notified if you present to a hospital with explosion related injuries.

Tsjerk - 22-2-2019 at 10:35

Quote:
One question, what did the hospital staff think of your injuries, were they suspicious?
I have always thought the authorities would be notified if you present to a hospital with explosion related injuries.


That highly depends on the country you're in. I know in the Netherlands you can walk in high as a kite with a friend who is having an overdose and I wouldn't be afraid to walk in with injuries caused by explosives. I heard different stories about the States though.

Walking in with injuries caused by someone else is a different story of course. Edit: that is not true I realize now... You don't want to scare victims of abuse from going to the hospital because they want to protect their partner.

[Edited on 22-2-2019 by Tsjerk]

crystal grower - 22-2-2019 at 10:44

One lovely day, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I decided to make my first thermite. First batch went fine, it was just a few grams of Al and some metal oxide (not sure which metal it was) ignited with KMnO4+glycerol.
I made a second batch, the glycerol ignited but thermite reaction didn't proceed. I thought I havent mixed the powders properly.
So, without realizing there could still be some unreacted glycerol and KMnO4 present (which there totally was btw.), I started mixing it with a stir rod. The leftover glycerol ignited and grilled my hand nicely.
AFTERMATH: I'm an idiot. Lucky idiot After I washed my hand from the dust I found about 1" long blister on my thumb and a smaller one on index finger. Nails on both fingers were black and skin of the nail folds was white.
I disinfected it properly and luckily the whole thing healed in about 2weeks.
I've learned a lesson, but I still can't comprehend how could I have been so stupid.

[Edited on 22-2-2019 by crystal grower]

nitro-genes - 22-2-2019 at 11:49

J_Sum...Oef... painful to watch these glass shards...Hopefully the surgeon managed to pick all of them out, even the smallest ones remaining can cause discomfort for a long time (been there). All things considered maybe you can consider yourself lucky after all, in the worst case 1 gram of these things could have left you blind, deaf or with a couple of missing fingers. Curiosity is a strange thing...

Quote: "Even when you think you have thought things through, you might in fact be doing something really stoopid" That is a very true thing you said there, there is always that weird unexpected thing. I was quite surprised to find some needles of an insanely sensitive sodium salt of some diazoquinone when this thing was precipitated from azeotropic hydrochloric. :o When seeing those photo of your hand, I couldn't help thinking: "That could have been me"

Anyway, good luck with the recovery!

[Edited on 22-2-2019 by nitro-genes]

Morgan - 22-2-2019 at 15:01

I had a Wump experience with purple salt and aluminum powder. At first it just burned briskly so then I thought if I powdered it more it would burn faster. When I went to light a couple of teaspoons of it the pile made that familiar Wump sound. With still more effort I discovered it just goes bang when ignited and that was quite a surprise just unconfined and all.
Then one day after making several small batches with a face shield and gloves using mortar and pestle, a pile of a few tablespoons was initiated with a drop of glycerine. I should mention I ground the KMNO4 first and then incorporated the aluminum into the permanganate and using a small brush uncaked the fine mixture from the sides of the mortar. The single drop of glycerine quickly made a wisp of smoke and then nothing for what seemed like 30 seconds or so. Then came a sizeable bang.
Anyway on a later occasion a small amount being mixed and pressed together in my small mortar and pestle exploded shattering it into pieces. Luckily I wasn't injured, and this time without gloves or face shield. Not too smart looking back on it.

Abromination - 22-2-2019 at 19:43

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
OMG why were you wearing shoes on a bed/ward?! Σ(゚Д゚|||)

Judging by the fact his wound is not cleaned yet, he probably had not been there very long. I bust my chin mountain biking a few months ago and throughout the stitches I never removed my shoe (I suppose I was not there long, maybe 4 hours, I left quickly to preform in a concert which I still missed)

Not quite a "wump" moment

barbs09 - 23-2-2019 at 05:00

Well, this story doesn't involve a "wump" moment per se, but does contain a fuck up that landed two of us in the Emergency department (with a happy ending).

Many years ago as a geology post grad at Uni, I used to help out around the lab. We had a prof that used a fair amount of hydrofluoric acid, mainly for etching feldspar in determining their composition chemically, amongst. other things.

I was asked to have a hand in disposing around 20l of "used" HF, that was apparently heavily diluted. The prof was the kind that believed in common sense over the excessive use of PPE... and this was before the days of abundant law suites.

Anyway the prof said take the container outside and tip down the drain, which incidentally was in a semi public area.

As soon as the HF met the concrete and aluminium drain, much effervescence and steam was created along with, I believe, a strong smell. Our prof said this was the most environmentally safe way of disposing it as it would be instantly diluted in the sewer.

Curious passer-byres enquired into what we were doing, upon which we naively told them... Being discrete was not part of our briefing!!

It didn't take long for emergency services to arrive, whom quickly doused the drain with thousands of litres of water... An official asked us what we were pouring down the drain, and he must have thought we said "hydrochloric" acid and not "hydrofluoric" acid. Looking back they likely googled (probably Netscaped) what they thought I said and got "hydrochloric", which is what the reporter on the scene also wrote in the newspaper the next day.

Once the scene dissipated, he got called into the proctors office and they interviewed us. When we said HF shit hit the fan. We were dropped outside Accident and Emergency. Upon telling the nurse that we may have been exposed to HF, which I am almost certain we didn't come into contact with, she shuffled off. Meanwhile, knowing how insidious the stuff was (after some reading ourselves), we were amazed that they weren't taking it more seriously.

A good 3/4 of an hour later, and very worried doctor came out and said "did you say hydrofluoric acid?" It was after the answer to that question that things sped up a bit!!!

We were decontaminated etc, nothing else said. Next day at uni, it was like it never happened.. Ahhh the good ol days... :)

XeonTheMGPony - 23-2-2019 at 16:46

Well I'm glad you made it through ok! not oft you get second chances in the em field.

markx - 24-2-2019 at 14:19

That was a truly lucky break! Glad you are ok j_sum!

Our own bad judgement is the first danger we should be aware of when conducting any experiment....all else comes after. It's so easy to have a "hiccup upstairs" that ends in an impulsive bad move.
The Creator knows I've had my share of them occur over the ages. In retrospective I often think "Like for real?? What was going on in my brian?"

I mean my frustrated and youth fueled attempt at relighting a failed "whump" device based on tripper purple+Al and burning the big jesus out of my hand is somehow understandable....with fingernails detaching and all. But cutting open a live rimfire round at the rim, now that one defies all reason. Still got the scars to remind me to not go full retard again.

C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2 - 26-2-2019 at 14:28

Wow. quite an experience! It's easy to make mistakes, but it takes real courage to admit to them. In this case, you are also doing a public service by letting the rest us of study the accident so as not to repeat it.

You have already drawn a lot of good conclusions from this accident, about safety in general chemistry, and it will remind me to wear protective equipment, do research before making a composition, and proceed with caution when trying any new reaction.

A few other things this mishap highlights:

Armstrong's mix is just plain nasty. It's reputation for going off accidentally is known widely, but not universally. I think chances are fair that someone who is planning to make some will read this board and He'll decide against it.

It's better to handle a small explosive holding it by an empty part of the casing, cable, etc than to have the "live" part up against your skin. I have this feeling that if you'd been mixing the composition while holding the bottom of the beaker, you might have lost a finger. Holding the top limited the damage to fragments. It's not always possible to hold a charge like this, but it helps when you can. I seem to recall that a kiloton of TNT creates 400psi at 200ft, 70 psi at 400ft, and maybe 15 psi at 800ft. For small explosions, it scales with the cube root of the mass, so for one kg the distances are more or less 2,4,8 ft, or 2.4,4.8, and 9.6 inches for a gram.

Thin plastic and cardboard containers are less likely to create hazardous fragments. You can't use them for every energetic experiment, but it's great when you can.

And, not only for chemistry but for life in general (work, home improvement, cooking, driving, etc.), it's good to note that medical services are not always available right away. Half an hour is a long time to have to manage your own medical emergency. Good thinking keeping your hand closed to stop bleeding. First aid tips like that are very important to keeping yourself alive while waiting for the EMT's to show up. A first aid kit in the lab is not a bad idea, either.

I'm glad your doctor wasn't to suspicious of the injury. I imagine it would be easier to explain getting my ass kicked at the bar, than to explain hurting my hand with an explosive. I would have probably lied and said I'd fell while holding the glassware, and then probably been discovered and still had explaining to do.

By the way, at the beginning you mentioned retelling a day in the lab as a Ludlum novel as being a "Whimsy thread." What's that?

Glad you are going to heal okay. Thanks for sharing.





[Edited on 26-2-2019 by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2]

Rhodanide - 5-3-2019 at 07:50

Damn dude, you got all of us with that last photo

Mothman - 8-3-2019 at 09:41

That X-Ray photograph looks like one of the background images for an optimism poster which one might see decorating the office of a school nurse with poor taste. I suspect that those who see it will be less apt to throw caution to the wind when handling explosives in the future!

Glad you're OK man, usually the explosive mishaps that people bother to report here end with permanent injuries, so I suspect that everyone is thankful that this went differently!

j_sum1 - 9-3-2019 at 18:03

Time for some updates and responses to some of the comments.

The first round of X-rays did not precisely show the location of the glass. The surgeon asked the radiographer to get some pics with me making the "OK" symbol. It seemed funny at the time. The only record I could get was a hastily snapped copy of the computer screen.

It seems that they had to do quite a bit of additional cutting to extract the glass. Here is the shot just before the 23 stitches came out.
2019-03-01 08.57.07.jpg - 179kB


I have not really been into the lab since -- so many other things in life to catch up on. But I did survey the aftermath. Here is my lab bench with shards of glass and a fine dusting of potassium chlorate all over the bench. The furthest fragment of glass I found was more than 2 metres away from the incident.
2019-02-28 12.56.58.jpg - 215kB


Blood on the concrete floor. All things considered, not much blood.
2019-02-28 12.57.07.jpg - 269kB


Fragments of glass on the bench.
2019-02-28 12.57.30.jpg - 272kB


My lab stool got shredded.
2019-02-28 12.57.44.jpg - 229kB


Marks in the cement sheeting I have on the back wall.
2019-02-28 12.58.34.jpg - 142kB

j_sum1 - 9-3-2019 at 18:12

Healing is going well.

A week after the stitches came out and it all looks pretty clean. Some scar tissue -- particularly internally. Still some swelling. The wound itself tingles but there is no nerve damage affecting the fingertips.
2019-03-10 09.12.54.jpg - 180kB


I did not get souvenirs of the glass-shards -- except for this one which I pulled out on the initial cleaning. This piece was fully submerged -- photographed beside the hole it came from. Other pieces were close to the bone.
2019-03-10 09.12.39.jpg - 175kB


I have a little damage to one tendon. Nothing that will compromise strength but enough to affect the way the tendon slides. I was expecting it to take months to get a full range of motion back. This fist inclines me to be more optimistic than that.
2019-03-10 10.55.58.jpg - 138kB

NedsHead - 10-3-2019 at 02:09

Are you expecting a visit from the police/asio/counter terrorism J?

j_sum1 - 10-3-2019 at 02:28

Nope.
But if anyone does call, I simply tell them what happened.

XeonTheMGPony - 10-3-2019 at 04:41

As some one with allot of deep scares and wounds on the hands (Combo of biking and growing up in the logging industry) Once fully healed, keep a regular stretching regimen and massage the scars. This helps make things more pliable again and promotes further healing.

Soaks in magnesium sulfate water that is warmed is a nice treat as well.

If you don't do the stretching exercises the scar tissue will contract and get a bit hard and make fine movement difficult at best.

j_sum1 - 10-3-2019 at 04:46

Thanks Xeon. Already started. I visit the hand clinic tomorrow for more information and some exercises.

woelen - 11-3-2019 at 01:58

J_sum1, I just now notice this thread and I am glad to see that all goes well. That was a close call! If the glass had hit your face, things would have been much worse.

Two weeks ago, I again was shocked by the intense force of the Armstrong mix.
I made a little chemistry box for my 11 year old son. I made a nice booklet with it, with experiments and explanations of the observations. He really likes it. One of the experiments is making a TINY amount of armstrong mix. I had done each of the the experiments in the booklet myself, to be sure that they work if the instructions are followed (more or less). In the box I have some NaClO3 I made myself (in the EU you cannot buy chlorates anymore), consisting of crystals, 2 to 3 mm in size. In my own test, I took one of these crystals and crushed it with the back of a screw driver by hitting it once. To that I added a small pile of red P (appr. 3 mm high) and coarsely mixed this and then tapped with a long glass rod. In my experiments this usually gives a nice flash and a lot of smoke and a bang after two or three hits.

In the booklet I wrote that the NaClO3 has to be crunched very well and that a fine powder must be made. So my son was happily crunching, with the back of a small screwdriver with a metal end. The powder he made was really fine, like powdered sugar. He really put some effort in it.
Next, the booklet says he has to go outside and put a small amount of red phosphorus on the KClO3 on a flat glass surface (which is provided in the box as well). Not more than a 3 mm heap of loose powder. I told him not to use a stick or something for mixing. I took the amount and swirled cautiously, mixing the powder. Carefully with a piece of soft paper I moved the tiny amount into a small pile.
I told my son to take the glass rod, stand back and use a stretched arm to tap the pile. He did and there was an incredible BANG. We all had ringing ears (my daughter and her boy friend also were watching). My son was trembling after the bang and started crying.

One hour later, things were normal again. No injury, just being shocked by the insanely loud bang. I asked my son whether he wanted another experiment. He said "yes". When I asked which experiment, he said "The same experiment, but with smaller amounts" :D

Mateo_swe - 14-7-2020 at 00:13

This is very good info what can happen with just a minor quantity chemicals when not knowing what you are doing.
I do not have so much knowledge yet and something like this or worse could easily happen if i do not research the preformed reactions before i attempt them.
I had not thought so little of this mix could cause such damage and the fact that i have 1kg of red P makes me nervous what could have happened if i tried mix some chemicals without prior research.
Its unfortunate that this accident happened but its certainly a reminder and wake up bell how dangerous this hobby can be if not careful.
I also have shown our kids some cool things like putting a small piece of Natrium in a bucket of water and explained how dangerous these to are to combine together.
I hope you heal up well.

karlos³ - 14-7-2020 at 03:52

I can't see blood, neither read stories which involve such accidents, especially were things like shards are still embedded in the skin.
I get all agitated and restless, legs moving nervously while sitting and reading this story.
This is one of the things, the main reason, why I will never do energetic chemistry :o
Thank you for sharing(as if I would even need more convicing that it is nothing for me).

Armstrong's Mixture

MadHatter - 14-7-2020 at 06:36

For me it was 1974(age 16) when I
blew off my eyebrows with a small
amount of this mixture in a mortar
and pestle. I haven't used this combo
since.

Tsjerk - 14-7-2020 at 06:46

The power of this mix also scared me, it literally blew a piece out of the broomstick I used to set it off. It was maybe half a gram of poorly mixed mixture with very coarse KClO3.

Bedlasky - 14-7-2020 at 14:50

J_sum1: Your story sounds horrible. I am glad that you are fine.

j_sum1 - 14-7-2020 at 16:13

Quote: Originally posted by Bedlasky  
J_sum1: Your story sounds horrible. I am glad that you are fine.

A year on and everything pretty much normal. A bit of tingling in one finger from nerve damage but no loss of movement or strength.

But if you want a story you should check out my "thump incident" sequel.

Fyndium - 16-7-2020 at 04:31

Good thing you only had so small amount of it. I've seen people carelessly scale up things, "oh, let's make 100 grams at once". Even a couple-fold amount could have resulted in much more serious trauma.

I used to experiment with pyrotechnics when I was a lot younger and I'm scared shitless of couple of events which turned out nice but could have resulted in catastrophy. I handled quite a significant amount of flash powder when I was making M-80's for new years', and the other thing featured a certain other compound and an act which would get me banned from this board because of it's sheer stupidity if I were to disclose the details, but let's just say that I believe I was just a fraction of a second away from blowing my entire hand off. Haven't been playing with pyrotechnics for almost 15 years now.

Fery - 16-7-2020 at 06:48

Fyndium - most of us were fascinated with pyro in our chemistry beginnings... I remember preparing "flash powder No 8" at a scale of 100 g a lot of times in the age when I did not yet have KClO4 so I substituted it with KMnO4 (thus it was not really flash powder No 8, and the number 8 is very likely used only in my country), I used electrical cafe grinder for pulverising crystals of KMnO4 (I still have the grinder and few kg of KMnO4 which is well packed and probably still good quality), then added S powder (I still have more than 15 kg of S powder in a bag which had initially 25 kg) and finally powdered Al (still approx 5 kg of it in the stock without any perspective of using it whole in the rest of my life). The weight ratio KMnO4:S:Al was 60:20:20.
Today I do not do pyro (more important things to do which have higher priority) although I have a lot of KClO4 which is much safer than KMnO4. If I do flash powder sometimes in my life it will certainly be KClO4:Al but I'm afraid I will not. I also have few kg of Sb2S3 so probably I would use something even better than only Al as a fuel :)

Whathappensif - 16-7-2020 at 08:24

I'm glad you're OK! It is a valuable lesson for your children to not underestimate the danger of energetic materials.

I'm curious, which country are you in? Did the police or local safety board cause you any problems? Do you need a license or business number for home chemistry?

I heard that doctors or hospitals report injuries due to gunshots, explosions, etc. to the "Security establishment". Do they do that where you're at?

mackolol - 16-7-2020 at 13:45

When I was 15, I happened to have potassium chlorate and red phosphorus too. I even have bought the red P especially for pyrotechnics. First time I mixed them, I thought that the mixture will just burn.
It had exploded right before my face and made me deaf for short amount of time. Then I thought "yeea man that the shit". For some time I was hanging out with my friends and was detonating the mix just loosely poured on the ground with visco fuse.
Thanks God, that reagents were not totally dry as they tend to blow up just by themselves together. Anyways, I'm glad that nothing have happened to me and I had quite a lot of fun.