Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Help with CHP

Help with CHP

Brightthermite - 26-6-2019 at 22:16

Hey everyone I am new to this forums but have been tinkering with this kind of stuff for awhile. I recently tried to make some CHP per LL video. I am using lab ammonium hydroxide (28-30%). CuO Hexamine and NH4ClO4 where all purchased from pyrotechnic websites so I am assuming they are pure.

When I try this synthesis I get small yields around 5 and 6 grams, much less then the expected 10. The solution itself looks like the same colors as what I have seen in videos. But when I filter it the salt is dark purple blue. After reading the "tetraamine copper perchlorate" thread I am under the impression that it is suppose to be a dark purple blue? I am pretty sure this is unreacted CuO. I saw on a comment on the video that it could have to do with the CuO purity. Any idea how I can check he purity?

One gram in straw of my CHP will not explode like in Darians video, it just burns. However it is snappy with a hammer.

So I included some picture to hopefully help whats going on. All caps that were used were made according to the Berta video except with a bit of flash powder placed on top for the reason stated above. The plate is 3 mm thick.

Thanks everyone, and sorry for the boat load of info and questions I have just been at this for awhile and was getting frustrated.

Brightthermite - 26-6-2019 at 22:18

Brightthermite - 26-6-2019 at 22:21

MineMan - 27-6-2019 at 14:47

I have never never had any luck using CuO. Only some of it reacts and I have yet to figure out how to effectively separate the rest, since water destroys this product. Make it with copper wire instead and you will have success.

Don’t have your flash powder contact the CHP or TACP it reacts with Al. To see what I mean place some on Al foil and heat to 100C.

Brightthermite - 27-6-2019 at 18:53

I wasnt aware that it reacts with Al thank you. I try to keep a layer of plastic rap in between things like that. Using copper wire do you get expected yields?

MineMan - 28-6-2019 at 18:11

Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite

I wasnt aware that it reacts with Al thank you. I try to keep a layer of plastic rap in between things like that. Using copper wire do you get expected yields?

Yields are poor because TACP I soluable in ammonia.

Brightthermite - 29-6-2019 at 11:37

More cooling then. Would leaving the lid open allow the solution to evaporate off and leave the salt?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 5-7-2019 at 10:56

According photo is your crystalls really dark. Too much dark blue. Almost black I see. Somewhere is error. You can try firstly prepare pure TACP. In method from video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERevYEszAwo
And after add hexamine 6% + AP 6% + 88% TACP (dry compounds weighing) And mixing under a few drop of ammonia water as porridge consistency. Drying at 50C, create grain 2x2 mm. Thats all. This method give almost identical properties as method CHP video. Material must have properties (before filling) as in end of video CHP. Thus 0,3 gramms in alu foil (6 - 10 layers approx) should by detonatable by slowly heating by the candle. Or even less of amount 0,2g..... :cool:

---Do not use Aluminium powder in cavity---

[Edited on 5-7-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Flawed Soul - 10-7-2019 at 13:50

Wow, I was having the same problems as brightthermite. This helps a lot. Thanks.

Flawed Soul - 19-7-2019 at 15:25

I did the TACP synthesis from the video and added the hexamine and AP later like you described, the product turned out great. Thanks LL.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-7-2019 at 21:36

I thank you, that was successful. This confirms that the laws of nature are the same throughout the world..... :cool:

...LL

Brightthermite - 20-7-2019 at 21:59

Flawed Soul, did you get the yield you were expecting using this method? And just for the sake of information, my CHP with large amounts of CuO in it detonated when a cap was used.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 21-7-2019 at 03:08

Yields in metod copper wire - roll container are always high. Usually on inserted dry 30g NH4ClO4 (AP) are 30 - 36g dry TACP. According quality process of cooling - separation. And by quality of setting of entire process. Best thickness of copper wire is 1,25 mm and weight 12g. Long 90 cm I estimate. After reaction is weight of wire 3 - 4g. The excess of described shaped metal is important for exact run of reaction. 1 - Because wire is possible watching easy and estimate end of process. 2 - thin wire automatically decrease speed of reaction and hold temperature between 20 - 25 C. 3 - the wire is easy remove from solution. Rolling container is it most easy method how to obtain TACP. In cause if you have not a big storages of pure CuO powder.... :cool:

...LL

Flawed Soul - 24-7-2019 at 09:21

Brightthermite, I didn't weigh it, I was more interested in trying to get it to come out right. I did get a good bit more using the wire method than the previous method I used that left me with a large amount of unreacted CuO.

hedgehog - 5-5-2020 at 06:52

My first post here. Very happy to be online with all you knowledgeable folks. Been messing with this stuff for years (HMTD, R-Salt, SADS, etc.) trying to make a reliable detonator.
Especially excited about synthing some CHP. Would it be possible to utilize potassium perchlorate versus the ammonium? I have plenty of KClO4 and was wondering if you could use a stoichiometric amount of it and obtain CHP that way. Possibly mix it in a solution of sodium hydroxide first? Not sure if the potassium will work in the schweizer's or not. LL or anyone please let me know. Thanks.

IrishJeremy - 30-12-2020 at 19:18

I asked LL the same thing on YouTube. KClO4 won't work, but NaClO4 will. Good luck with it!

Laboratory of Liptakov - 2-1-2021 at 01:53

Most frequently asked question in the production of TACP: Is it possible to use KClO4 ..? .... Answer: It is not possible to use KClO4. Here is a video of what will happen: From 5:20 ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0pyL1VYLT8&t=325s

The most efficient method for preparing TACP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERevYEszAwo

The most efficient way to produce CHP: Reagents:
TACP ................. 4.4g
Hexamine .......... 0.3g
NH4ClO4 .......... .0.3g
Am.wat.25% ...... 1.0g (variabile 0.3 - 1g)

Procedure:
All 4 compounds mixing together to consistency porridge on inert surface. (stainles steel of Dog bowl and coffee spoon is ideal. (not use bowl your dog)

Heated on 40 - 50 C helping hot air gun setting on 80 - 120 C. And constant mixing. Smelly process. From porridge arises lumps during a 1 - 3 minute. Crusing almost dry lumps to consistency 5x5 mm parts, chips.

Using sieve, using spoon, and pressing through eyes of sieve 1x1 or 2x2 mm on warm surface 30 - 50 C. Shaking on surface 2 - 5 minute to dry crystalls.
Long drying process (for example 30 minute) decrease power of CHP. Not absolut dry CHP works well.
Very super dry CHP after 60 minute drying at 40C is weak. (partially decomposition, out of NH3 from molecule)
Done.
Storage in plast hermetic container at 15 C 1 years without changes.

[Edited on 2-1-2021 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Jebby - 6-5-2021 at 07:24

I may just be stupid but quick question is TACP a reagent for making CHP, or is TACP an explosive itself?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 6-5-2021 at 14:22

TACP is power explosive itself. And because his OB is + 14,5, is possible add some fuel. Best is hexamine, which is stabille in molecule TACP or in mixture with TACP. Because TACP is very alkaline. TACP + hexamine (3-7%) = CHP.
Others fuels, for example nitrocellulose or aluminium and next, can be in mixture with TACP unstable.

Jebby - 7-5-2021 at 06:03

Okay thank you LL

Laboratory of Liptakov - 7-5-2021 at 08:47

If you will work with TACP or CHP several times and repeatedly, you will soon leave the fear of manipulating primary substances. CHP can withstand rough handling. Scraping of planchet from a warm stainless steel pan. Pressing into the steel cavity in the vice. If the cavity is open, the pressed CHP will only burn out like a rocket engine. From short direct flame. No transition to detonation. However, if the cavity closes, DDT will occur until to speed on 7500 m / s. Glowing wood chip causes just burn. (HMTD detonates straight away)

Nitrosio - 13-5-2021 at 23:40

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Gargamel - 9-7-2021 at 13:38

I wanted to try this for years, now I finally got my first batch of CHP ready

I did not use the detour via TACP but directly copied the CuO method as LL once presented.
For 10g AP I got 12,3g.

I found that the filtrate was black, there was still CuO, which of course passed through the filter (some 450mesh).
MineMan wrote something similar somewhere earlier in the TACP tread.
Seems to me the ratios are not ideal, a little less Oxide maybe...

How dry is yours usually? I did 5min at 50°C, then let it sit at room temperature for a few hours. It seems to be almost dry, very little ammonia smell... I wonder if that was too much. On the other hand, how would you light stuff thats not 100% dry, let alone have it in touch with a fuse...?

Since AL is said to be incompatible with CHP, does that mean Al tubes will be attacked on the long run?
I'm not worried about the tube, but the shelf life of the CHP touching it.

I prefer fuse caps for practical reasons, now the question is, what kind of fuse and prime mixtures are compatible... Being a pyro guy and rather no chemist, BP+ metal or Monocapa are typical choices...
If Al is not viable, MgAl is certainly not better - how about silicon?

[Edited on 9-7-2021 by Gargamel]

[Edited on 9-7-2021 by Gargamel]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-7-2021 at 07:24

First CHP...?.....Congratulaton.... :cool:

For reliable function of CHP is 5 minute drying process at 50C pretty enough.
Next drying on air is unseless. Best tube for final device is copper, because during a weeks create next crystalls inside. From slightly wet CHP. Therefore final pressed tube device copper - CHP hold CHP in fresh, with maximal reliability of DDT. Also, copper is heavy and has bigger resistance during detonation. Same thick Alu tube can fail from reason only, because is light.

Brightthermite - 10-7-2021 at 16:29

LL, so you press you caps with wet CHP?
I was never able to get the drying process to work well for me. One day air drying has worked amazing tho

Laboratory of Liptakov - 11-7-2021 at 13:03

Not total wet. On first look the agglomerates seems dry. Same a like salt or sucrose in kitchen. Or ammonium nitrate. They are also not dry never. There is also content of water in crystals. In CHP is moisture of ammonia water, which causes easy DDT and his typical smell. For example, old CHP or too much dry CHP can be activated. A few drop of ammonia water, create dense porridge and dry again shortly. His DDT properties will renewed.

Brightthermite - 11-7-2021 at 16:56

Awh I understand now what you mean. My "air dried" CHP always smells strongly of ammonia and if touched with you bare skin feels how I could only describe as greasy (still having ammonia).

Gargamel - 18-7-2021 at 14:06

Had some nice firecrackers with 5mm papertubes.

Test in 5mm inner / 6mm outer diameter copper pipe failed

PETN @ 500psi
CHP @ 200psi
CHP @ 80psi
CHP @ 20psi around the fuse

The PETN left a white disk on the witness plate, some blue streaks indicate the the CHP did no go DDT...

Maybe 0,5mm wall thickness was too optimistic

[Edited on 18-7-2021 by Gargamel]

Brightthermite - 18-7-2021 at 15:47

Quote: Originally posted by Gargamel

Had some nice firecrackers with 5mm papertubes.

Test in 5mm inner / 6mm outer diameter copper pipe failed

PETN @ 500psi
CHP @ 200psi
CHP @ 80psi
CHP @ 20psi around the fuse

The PETN left a white disk on the witness plate, some blue streaks indicate the the CHP did no go DDT...

Maybe 0,5mm wall thickness was too optimistic

[Edited on 18-7-2021 by Gargamel]

Ill note that I do not get very fancy with pressing my CHP. I load the .7 grams in maybe .15 grams at a time and just press it flat by hand. The CHP grain size is pretty fine tho, like fine sand. I believe some of the voids are what help it DDT.

MineMan - 19-7-2021 at 12:55

You need 1-2mm grains. Like bright said, needs to be like sand. That test is not too optimistic, I think LL showed it works in a thin aluminum tube too. I bet carbon fiber arrow works great as well. To be blunt, CHP is pretty fool proof, if it’s not working it’s not the finesse, rather a major detail. Only one I can think of is grain size.

Gargamel - 20-7-2021 at 12:23

Mine are definitely smaller, more like 600µ or so.
Fine sand...

May I ask what mesh size sieves you guys used?

Also I found my crystals weren't much bigger before I granulated. Although I gave them a slow cooldown, ample time to grow...

Also I found that the crystals aren't very tough, or at least it felt like it... I felt that there was nothing more to compress at values much lower than LL gave in his videos. The voids between the granules seem to collapse rather quickly...

edit:
Recrystalisation from concentrated spirit of ammonia seems to be the right way...?

[Edited on 20-7-2021 by Gargamel]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 21-7-2021 at 12:29

Again, much more important than grain size is the right way to prepare CHP. 4.4g TACP + 0.3g hexamine + 0.3g NH4ClO4. Moisten the ingredients with ammonia water to the consistency of the slurry. Rub to the consistency of mashed potatoes, without visible grains. Push the semi-dry slurry through a 2x2 mm sieve. Dry on a surface of 50 C for 5 minutes. Enclose in an airtight container. If the CHP is properly prepared, it also works in a 6/8 mm aluminum cavity. And only 2 densities are enough. 0.3g on 30 Kg. (50Kg) And 0.7g compressed to, for example, 5 Kg. (3 - 10 Kg). If you use PETN, you can simply mixing with CHP 1:1. And pressed into cavity for example on 10 Kg. However beware. CHP is alkaline compound. Can degradate PETN after a one week partially. Same conditions are for ETN. 1:1, heterogenous mixture.

Gargamel - 25-7-2021 at 01:03

OK, next time.

So - the CuO method is now "officially" discouraged?

MineMan - 25-7-2021 at 15:02

Quote: Originally posted by Gargamel

OK, next time.

So - the CuO method is now "officially" discouraged?

It does not make sense to me. Maybe it works with stronger ammonia, but…. I find it is impossible to separate out. tACP is really soluable, so if you let it sit too long in the mother liquid or trying to extract it, it’s a pain. You will end up with jars of blue liquid that you realize is too much work to tackle and all your AP is gone! Where did it go, it went into these blue jars. Maybe LL knows a way…. But

Brightthermite - 25-7-2021 at 18:13

Quote: Originally posted by Gargamel

OK, next time.

So - the CuO method is now "officially" discouraged?

Yeah the CuO method has never worked very well for me

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-10-2021 at 14:14

Ammonia water must be (for TACP separation) maximally concentrated and cooled to zero Celsius, or -10 C.
25% concentration of ammonia water (or higher) is the basis of success.

MineMan - 14-10-2021 at 23:33

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Ammonia water must be (for TACP separation) maximally concentrated and cooled to zero Celsius, or -10 C.
25% concentration of ammonia water (or higher) is the basis of success.

I meant separating TACP from CuO

Laboratory of Liptakov - 17-10-2021 at 10:20

Oh yes sorry for my English. For example, a small amount of CuO in TACP 1-5% does not have a negative effect on energy properties. However, it is always better to use metallic copper, sheets, wires for the reaction. With an excess for the reaction of, for example, 100% relative to the stoichiometric weight. These can be easily removed after the reaction.

ManyInterests - 26-7-2022 at 00:29

I finally got my new platinum electrode, so I will be working on making sodium perchlorate to turn into ammonium perchlorate, which is still the last thing I need for CHP.

I do have a question about filtration of the CHP from the solution.

LL mentioned that a glass buchner funnel is best. I have a very good one... but how do I clean it afterward?

What if want to use a simple sieve. I know that coffee filters are useless since the solution will eat any and all cellulose. I did see LL say that a metal or plastic filter will work.

Will the coffee filter that I posted work to filter out the CHP and leave the unwanted stuff behind?

IMG_20220726_041947021 - Copy.jpg - 1.6MB

Laboratory of Liptakov - 29-7-2022 at 10:09

Of course, it will works. Crystalls TACP has usually size about 0,5 - 1,5 mm.

ManyInterests - 29-7-2022 at 14:36

Great, so I don't need anything finer.

ManyInterests - 17-9-2022 at 20:35

OK I decided to post here because as of this moment, I am going through my first ever CHP synth. My Ammonium Perchlorate isn't 100% pure, so I used LL's measurements but with 11 grams of AP, and 32.5 grams of 28% ammonia.

I used the same amount of CuO and Hexamine. But despite almost twenty minutes of room temp stirring there is no chance in color. I started heating to 55C with stirring on my mantle...

Edit: Blue! Gorgeous blue! It turned blue!

I just needed heating and it took a while for it to work out. I'm still heating it right now and giving it more time than what LL's video stated to make absolutely sure that everything has fully reacted.

Edit2: It appears to be fully reacted. A nice blue color! I kept it reacting and stirring for 25 minutes from 50 to 55C. I removed the stirbar and washed it. There is some slight blackness on it, but I figure it is copper oxide... I can wash it off more thoroughly later. I am letting it cool down to below 20C before giving it a look and seeing what the result is. I will be putting it in the fridge (not freezer) later after covering it in cling film. Everything stinks of ammonia and I don't want that stuff where I store my food.

[Edited on 18-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

[Edited on 18-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

ManyInterests - 17-9-2022 at 22:56

I wanted to send this picture to LL directly, but I couldn't attach photos in U2Us. So I am doing it over here...

I have a great success!

After some reacting and letting it cool down nice and slow to 20C (from 55C) I do believe I have generated a nice crop of CHP. At least I hope I did. They are in the fridge where they will remain for much longer than 8 hours. Not the freezer, the fridge. LL's video didn't specify what to put it in, and I didn't know if it was a freezer or a fridge. But it shouldn't matter. Temp will drop to 0C or below.

This represents an entire summer's worth of work to get some Ammonium Perchlorate made! And while due to complications my yields were low (I only made 122.95 grams of fairly decent AP, and 22.23 grams of grams of somewhat lesser quality) But that was the only ingredient that was missing to make CHP.

Maybe in a year I will go at this again, with my newfound knowledge I will make hundreds of grams worth of ammonium perchlorate and do more stuff. For now I got enough for what I need. I'll make another synth or two of CHP and call it a day. I'll save the AP for the other stuff LL is making.

ManyInterests - 18-9-2022 at 07:50

OMG... I found a problem. I mentioned that it didn't turn blue after some shaking and stayed black until I started heating it? Well something else happened.

Despite remaining blue after cooling down to 20C (from 55C) when I took it out of the fridge, it was black again... what happened?

Edit: I was told this was supposed to happen? That it is a dark purple? I took another picture, but with camera flash

Edit2: Ok! some good news. As it warmed up, the blackness went away, the left over liquid turned blue again and the mass is also going purple. Very dark purple, but certainly not black.

[Edited on 18-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

ManyInterests - 19-9-2022 at 00:31

I made a video of a burn test. LL or MineMan, is this consistent with good CHP? Meaning I can ignore the discoloration and not require a recrystalization?

https://www.bitchute.com/video/sswAXWpDkAht/

MineMan - 19-9-2022 at 07:09

Wow man.

Make sure it’s safe to handle. We don’t want yah to get hurt. Color changes could mean sensitivity issues. Always check the sensitivity before handling. I don’t like to give advice on energetics. But safety is different… no one here deserves to get hurt unless they are trying to harm others. Sometimes, I have heard of stable compounds being extremely sensitive.

Loptr - 19-9-2022 at 09:25

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Again, much more important than grain size is the right way to prepare CHP. 4.4g TACP + 0.3g hexamine + 0.3g NH4ClO4. Moisten the ingredients with ammonia water to the consistency of the slurry. Rub to the consistency of mashed potatoes, without visible grains. Push the semi-dry slurry through a 2x2 mm sieve. Dry on a surface of 50 C for 5 minutes. Enclose in an airtight container. If the CHP is properly prepared, it also works in a 6/8 mm aluminum cavity. And only 2 densities are enough. 0.3g on 30 Kg. (50Kg) And 0.7g compressed to, for example, 5 Kg. (3 - 10 Kg). If you use PETN, you can simply mixing with CHP 1:1. And pressed into cavity for example on 10 Kg. However beware. CHP is alkaline compound. Can degradate PETN after a one week partially. Same conditions are for ETN. 1:1, heterogenous mixture.

LL,

What would be the benefit from using 1:1 CHP to PETN/ETN, as opposed to straight PETN/ETN? What are the benefits?

ManyInterests - 19-9-2022 at 16:00

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

Wow man.

Make sure it’s safe to handle. We don’t want yah to get hurt. Color changes could mean sensitivity issues. Always check the sensitivity before handling. I don’t like to give advice on energetics. But safety is different… no one here deserves to get hurt unless they are trying to harm others. Sometimes, I have heard of stable compounds being extremely sensitive.

I ground it up with a spoon before hand. If there were stability issues I would have noticed!

When I did grind it I used a rubber spatula. I did scrape the bottom of the glass bowl with a metal spoon. I did see LL handle CHP far, far more roughly with no ill effects. This is not to say I will be careless, but I trust I didn't apply that kind of force to it.

CHP is a secondary as you mentioned, and less senstive than ETN. I actually smacked my ETN HARD with a hammer and it resulted in no detonation or even a pop. I did it with the ETN between aluminum foil covers, too, and ETN is reactive to aluminum.

I wanna make it clear. This doesn't mean I have any intent of throwing any caution to the wind. The last thing I want is to become complacent in this hobby and end up in the wiki as 'SM members who died dabbling with energetics' or have my own life after detonation sticky.

I have to admit, I did put a lot of CHP there. But that was actually my 2nd burn attempt, so I knew what was going to happen before hand. the first time it was less than half what I put there.

Edit: In an attempt to recrystalize, I used 30 ml of ammonia (28%) on the CHP. It didn't all dissolve and it was an endothermic reaction. I put it in the fridge and I will keep it there for an hour or two before refiltering. It should clean it up. I hope it'll be good and clean by then.

Next (and possibly final) synth I will add the CuO to the ammonia solution first and dissolve all I can BEFORE adding any of the other ingredients, then filter out any excess CuO. I haven't gotten any answers from LL on the TACP video he made.

[Edited on 20-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

ManyInterests - 19-9-2022 at 18:03

Ok so I filtered out the CHP. Man there was a LOT of CuO contamination. I did crash out the very blue CHP out of everything, and now am drying everything again. I washed all the waste down the drain like everyone suggested I do.

Probably wasted a lot of CHP, but at least what I got in the end is pure. I'll be making another batch (or two) anyway pretty soon, this time increasing the ammonia to 40 grams and reducing the CuO to 2.4 grams instead of 2.7. Make sure everything is dissolved BEFORE I put in the hexamine and ammonium perchlorate.

MineMan - 20-9-2022 at 02:10

Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests

Ok so I filtered out the CHP. Man there was a LOT of CuO contamination. I did crash out the very blue CHP out of everything, and now am drying everything again. I washed all the waste down the drain like everyone suggested I do.

Probably wasted a lot of CHP, but at least what I got in the end is pure. I'll be making another batch (or two) anyway pretty soon, this time increasing the ammonia to 40 grams and reducing the CuO to 2.4 grams instead of 2.7. Make sure everything is dissolved BEFORE I put in the hexamine and ammonium perchlorate.

But you never know the sensitivity of each crystal. And there are wild cards. I have seen it happen. Always listen to your gut.

ManyInterests - 20-9-2022 at 06:22

Duly noted. The CHP is dry now. I did have to scrap the glass bowl with a metal spoon since there was no way I could get it off otherwise. I don't normally dry energetics this way, but given that CHP is basically formed in a Schweizer's reagent, I couldn't use coffee filters and gently remove them off that like I do with NHN or ETN or any other energetic I normally make.

I with every minor scrape I transferred the chunks bit by bit to another container, and after that I took teeny tiny bits from that into another container to grind up with a rubber spoon to get a powdery consistency. I took as much precaution I could take with this.

The final yield after recrystalization and burn tests is 5 grams from this. Not a lot, but I probably lost quite a bit due to recrystalization. It is very blue and it burns MUCH faster. It doesn't vanish.

I am doing another CHP synth right now. This time using 2.54 g of CuO and 39.55 g of ammonia. The hexamine and AP proportions remain the same (1.5 grams and 11 grams respectively).

And this time it is STILL black even have vigorous shaking and stirring. I am heating it up with strong stirring now as well.

Edit: No, it's 30 C and it is getting very blue, this time a clear blue and not a murky blue like last time. I think it's gonna be alright.

[Edited on 20-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-9-2022 at 06:45

Firstly is necessary prepare pure TACP. CHP is else and second step. Best method is Liptakov converter. Basic ratios are: 100% AP + 40% Cu wire a + 300% ammonia water. (22- 28%) Usually 30g AP + 12g Cu + 90 - 100 g ammonia water. Run temperature 10 - 15 C. Max 25 C at last 5 - 10 minute. Time of reaction is usually 1 hour with use ball mill mixer. Or 3 - 24 hours for hand mixing. (24 hours for lazy man)
Final TACP is pure, without CuO impurities.
Notice:
For some unknown reason, everyone who makes TACP for the first time always uses the CuO method. And their batch is always contaminated. Black + white, or blue + black and similarly. Only after losing a large amount of raw materials do they finally they use the Liptakov convertor method in desperation, which provides pure TACP always. Basic rule: Than more concentration of NH4OH = better results. Usually 25% is enough. At use NH4OH 6% will the crystals TACP contain a big amount of NH4ClO4. High concentration NH4OH displaces NH4ClO4 (as impurity) from crystalls of TACP.

ManyInterests - 20-9-2022 at 08:53

OK I will do this. Since the stuff I am making now will always need a recrystalization. I made too many mistakes and I am wasting too much ammonia on this. Like my 2nd synth was better, but still too much CuO contamination. I'll make some TACP.

I have one question: Will wire from a 10 ga wire suffice? I have some very thick wires I won't need any more and I can salvage the pure copper from there. There is no tinning or anything on the wire.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-9-2022 at 11:00

Best is the wire 1 - 2 mm of diameter. 10g of wire is enough for 25g AP. But for attempt can be used only 5g AP + 10g Cu + 15 ammonia water. Ammount of wire is not exact condition. Condition is 5g AP on 15g NH4OH 25% (for example). Cu wire must be in excess always for easy pull from bath as one wire. Good yield is 5g TACP from 5g AP as dry crystalls. Best yield is 5,5g TACP from 5g AP. Thus 110% TACP from 100% AP. With thick wire will reaction slow.
With very fine wire (hair wires) arises unwanted copper oxides/hydroxides are formed. Light blue copper oxides and copper hydroxides are insoluble in water. Like a very fine powder.

ManyInterests - 20-9-2022 at 12:01

OK, the individual wire diameter is thing, the 10ga just has a lot of wire.

Quote:

5g AP + 10g Cu + 15 ammonia water.

I'll double this because I want one yield. i assume you mean 15 grams of ammonia water.

and after I make the TACP, how much TACP to how much hexamine and ammonia water do I use for CHP? Or after filtering the unreacted copper, do I just add hexamine and it will become CHP?

Edit: how is it looking? This is after 35 minutes of continuous hand swirling.

[Edited on 20-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-9-2022 at 12:36

Better will do it CHP as " Dry way". Thus mixing 4,3g TACP + 0,3g HMTA + 0,3g NH4ClO4. As dry powders. + 0,3g ammonia water. Create fine porridge. Increase temperature on plate on 40 C and create from porridge dry agglomerates 2x2mm. Using sieve eyes 2x2 mm. This method provides the least loss of all reagents. Compared to crystallization from solution.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-9-2022 at 23:53

A photograph of the slightly wet and aspirated (Buchner) TACP will be required for assessment. It should be a monochromatic beautiful blue color. Medium blue.

MineMan - 21-9-2022 at 02:29

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

A photograph of the slightly wet and aspirated (Buchner) TACP will be required for assessment. It should be a monochromatic beautiful blue color. Medium blue.

Can chicken be marinated in this TACP ammonia mix? Also, any update on producing TACO?

ManyInterests - 22-9-2022 at 17:11

I need to buy a new screen for the my CHP and TACP filtration, since it is getting clogged and I think it is giving way. Would one with a 0.125mm mesh work? What about 0.075mm? Or is that simply too fine?

I posted the pictures of A: My 2nd CHP synth, which uses more ammonia and less CuO but I still saw some CuO contamination. but is it worth recrystalizing or is it good enough for blasting caps?

The others are of the TACP. I didn't wash the jar since I think the stuff at the bottom might be TACP. Most of the liquid has dried up since I kept it out for several days now.

IMG_20220922_210159219 - Copy.jpg - 3.2MB

[Edited on 23-9-2022 by ManyInterests]

ManyInterests - 22-9-2022 at 17:13

Since SM wouldn't let me post the other pics, here is my mesh and the TACP I collected (it isn't a lot. Only around 3.8 grams from 11 grams of AP)

IMG_20220922_210217369 - Copy.jpg - 2.3MB

IMG_20220922_210237516 - Copy.jpg - 3.3MB

Laboratory of Liptakov - 25-9-2022 at 07:14

This is what a clean and dry TACP should look like. It also contains a darker grain, but that's not a bad thing. Is old 1 year.
I recommend mixing all 4 samples and recrystallizing. For 1g of dirty (dry) TACP, use 2.5g of NH4OH 25%. And heat in a closed jar to 60 C. Then (still closed) cool to - 18 C in the refrigerator. For 4 hours. And filter again at approx. 0 C.

ManyInterests - 26-9-2022 at 10:45

I think my CuO might not be up to task for this. My third and largest synth (with even more reduced CuO and more ammonia added) is just not reacting sufficiently. I think there is carbon contamination in the CuO done specifically to prevent energetics from being made with this... I should have filtered the stuff out, but it'll be a while. I wanna move onto other projects.

Higher CHP yields with less ammonia and solvent

freeflyfreak - 15-10-2022 at 22:22

I thought I'd post this for comments/concerns.

Starting with copper perchlorate, ~25% NH4OH and lab grade Hexamine and NH4ClO4. The result is a zero waste process with minimal solvent that produces very dark purple crystals that have remained darker purple and for longer than other ratio's I've observed/tried.

1 g CuClO4
.1g NH4ClO4
.1g Hexamine
1ml 25% NH4OH Sol.

Mixed into sludge in Petri dish and placed on a 50C hotplate. Dried in a few minutes. Placed into 4 separate containers in dry cold, dry hot, humid cold and humid hot environments for 1 week with no observed changes to color or texture.

I figured the "no waste" approach might be interesting to others. Acknowledging there is a similar path starting with TACP to synth CHP66, you can also syth pure TACP from CuClO4 and NH4OH without any waste of crystallization by using minimal NH4OH to dissolve the CUClO4 and then evaporate at 50C. Given the lack of need for lots of solvent, It's much less wasteful of precious ammonia for those who have to make that at home too.

Have a great day!

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-11-2022 at 13:36

If you have Cu ClO4 and hexamine, then you don't need to bother making CHP. You can make LL8. (Cu8) And you save all the NH4ClO4. And all the ammonium hydroxide. And you shorten production to just a few minutes. And as a bonus, you get a more explosive substance than CHP.
Reagents for preparation:
Cu(ClO4)2 (hexahydrate)........2.4g
Hexamine ..............................0.6g
Distilled H2O............................0.5g

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=158259

Have a great day! ............................ (EtOH is not need also)

[Edited on 14-11-2022 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

specialactivitieSK - 6-4-2023 at 05:47

Is it ok by Berta no.8 (6/8mm) full pressing on the end CHP segment 500 mg with 1000 kg press?

[Edited on 6-4-2023 by specialactivitieSK]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 6-4-2023 at 08:11

Not. At cavity 6/8 mm is for output segment press 50 - 100 Kg enoug.

ManyInterests - 30-6-2023 at 21:57

I decided to bump this thread up because I am making CHP again. This time with some modifications.

I am using the usual proportions, but A: An excess of ammonia (you recommended that 30-40g of 25% ammonia is needed. I used 52g of 27%) and 1 extra gram of ammonium perchlorate.

I first added the CuO to the ammonia solution first, then heated it to 45-50C, then I filtered the unreacted/undissolved excess, after that I added the rest of the reagents and I am heating it again. I am currently reacting it in a hot water bath (50C) on my mantle.

After about ten more minutes, I will let it cool down slowly on the mantle in the bath overnight and then put it in the fridge (not the freezer) for another 8 or 10 hours.

I bought a batch of nylon filters specifically to use to filter out the CHP, they're quite fine and should retain all CHP while keeping the liquid away.

I hope to make high quality CHP this time. I am gonna make lots of perchlorates this summer and I will try to do LL8 and other cool stuff you've made recently. Those look like fine quality detonating material!

Edit: So far it is looking VERY blue. Much bluer than I've seen before, I think this batch is going to be the one!

Edit2: OK, I got this solution! Blue as it can be! I decided to put in the freezer and not the fridge, I think it'll be OK. I hope I get some good crystalization in the morning.

IMG_20230701_022058739 - Copy.jpg - 1.6MB

[Edited on 1-7-2023 by ManyInterests]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 1-7-2023 at 02:29

Color looks a like quality TACP / CHP......

ManyInterests - 1-7-2023 at 06:39

I see lots of very beauitful crystals forming at the bottom of this!

After drying this and testing, I will make another batch then I will make Zielenex.

IMG_20230701_103258506 - Copy.jpg - 1.5MB

ManyInterests - 1-7-2023 at 09:54

And here is the mostly dry result! I dried it over a hot water bath on my stove. Not on the stove directly like you did, but using two glass containers.

IMG_20230701_133259820 - Copy.jpg - 2.9MB

IMG_20230701_133303731 - Copy.jpg - 1.9MB

Laboratory of Liptakov - 3-7-2023 at 10:14

Your dry CHP is too much white color. It seems on too much NH4ClO4 in substance. Decisive will of course test in alu foil by video CHP66.

ManyInterests - 4-7-2023 at 14:21

It is not good CHP, it turned greened.

I used 1 additional gram of AP in this compared to other ingridents. As I said, I will tell you all the things I did and in what order.

1: Measured out 53g of 27% ammonia solution and put 2.7g of CuO in it (used a sauce jar with a sealed metal lid)
2: heated it to 45/50C for 20 minutes then let it cool. Mixed it periodically. Heated in water bath.
3: filtered out excess CuO, as this was a MAJOR problem me for in the past
4: Added in the rest of the ingredients and heated in hot water bath again.

the rest is just cooling and filtering (I used a nylon filter).

I spoke with some other users and I think my ammonium perchlorate is not pure enough for the task. The CuO was bought from a reputable source, the ammonia used was very strong and pure (and I used both from chemical suppliers and home made), and the hexamine is very also very pure. The AP must be the problem.

I've always had problems with the CuO not being used up and contaminating the product and turning it black in the end. That's why I filtered it out.

So as another note, the total reagents used are

11g of ammonium perchlorate
53g of ammonia solution
2.7g CuO (did not weigh what was filtered out)
1.5g of hexamine.

What else could have gone wrong?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-7-2023 at 23:25

If you don't have pure NH4ClO4 it is important firstly create a pure blue TACP according to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOZfhwKHjg&t=137s
And only then you create CHP according to CHP66 video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F94UpYRczkc

The method using CuO is an accelerated (simplified) method for CHP production. And it only works with pure chemicals.

[Edited on 5-7-2023 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

ManyInterests - 5-7-2023 at 11:38

I did the TACP method before with similarly poor results. I am convinced that I need to purify my ammonium perchlorate.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 6-7-2023 at 02:07

If you have NaClO4 and NH4NO3 you can try preparation TACP of this method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUec6kHHxeM

Storage Stability

Brightthermite - 24-10-2023 at 14:20

Not sure if there is another thread for this but I figured I would just document it in my original thread.

A sample of CHP and TACP that I made using this threads help is now over 4 years old. The CHP is only around 5 grams, completely with out the smell of ammonia now. Was stored in a normal prescription pill bottle (USA not sure if they are different else where). Showed no obvious signs of degrading and seemed to have the same energetic properties as the day it was made and tested. Was not able to test if the CHP was still able to detonate yet, I have a strong feeling it will. Will update when Im able to test.

TACP still had a slight smell of ammonia, much less then it started with. It was around 50 grams so I image it was able to hold the smell better. Same as the CHP it showed no signs of degrading and all the energetic properties you would expect.

ETN - Might as well document this as well. Small sample of ETN also around 4.5 years old. Still bright white, and burned as expected. Strange smell, sort of like a chlorine pool. Anyone else have experience with long stored ETN? Would love to hear if this is normal.

B(a)P - 24-10-2023 at 16:28

Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite

Not sure if there is another thread for this but I figured I would just document it in my original thread.

ETN - Might as well document this as well. Small sample of ETN also around 4.5 years old. Still bright white, and burned as expected. Strange smell, sort of like a chlorine pool. Anyone else have experience with long stored ETN? Would love to hear if this is normal.

ETN should not have an odour. Some people perceive NOx as a chlorine type odour. There is a decent chance that your ETN has somewhat decomposed.

Hey Buddy - 24-10-2023 at 17:37

Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite

Not sure if there is another thread for this but I figured I would just document it in my original thread.

A sample of CHP and TACP that I made using this threads help is now over 4 years old. The CHP is only around 5 grams, completely with out the smell of ammonia now. Was stored in a normal prescription pill bottle (USA not sure if they are different else where). Showed no obvious signs of degrading and seemed to have the same energetic properties as the day it was made and tested. Was not able to test if the CHP was still able to detonate yet, I have a strong feeling it will. Will update when Im able to test.

TACP still had a slight smell of ammonia, much less then it started with. It was around 50 grams so I image it was able to hold the smell better. Same as the CHP it showed no signs of degrading and all the energetic properties you would expect.

ETN - Might as well document this as well. Small sample of ETN also around 4.5 years old. Still bright white, and burned as expected. Strange smell, sort of like a chlorine pool. Anyone else have experience with long stored ETN? Would love to hear if this is normal.

I can give you my experience. Im long term testing some samples now.

I have a sample of CHP from a while ago, probably over a year, maybe 2? (not sure). Sealed in jelly jar. It has no signs of decomposition and is stored in an area that goes from below freezing in winter to above 90F in summer.

I have a sample of ETN twice recrystallized from methanol stored in a washed out aspirin bottle. It was two years old and began to decompose releasing NO2 gas which could be seen in the bottle when the lid was removed. The smell is a chlorine smell but a little more sharp and pungent almost like a mineral acid or HCl. The material in the bottle was then covered with water and is continuing to store in a liquid slowly evaporating. I am monitoring its decomposition and H2O remediation. I also have a sample of PETN twice recrystallized from ethanol. It was made at the same time as the decomposed ETN. The PETN sample has no sign of decomposition.

Brightthermite - 27-10-2023 at 19:14

Thanks for the information both of you. My ETN was twice recrystallized as well (with acetone). Sounds like it is either difficult to get all the acid out or I am not doing something totally correct. Hopefully I can get that sorted out.