Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Just One Meal a Day Longevity Approach

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 09:33

I recently read an article in Life Extension Magazine, which mentioned, that in addition to a restricted diet as a means to increased longevity, simply eating one large meal a day (with the daily caloric content not reduced) also seems to have a similar longevity effect. See also this mice study at https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/longer-daily-fasting-times-impr...

My opinion as to why this one meal approach could possibly work is that it in line with paleolithic’s man eating habits over hundreds of thousands of years of food consumption habits by our caveman ancestors. In such a scenario, when does not wake up and get breakfast, and then have lunch at noon, followed by dinner at sunset. Instead, essentially a single large meal once, most likely, when available.

My question is: Can any biochemist explain to me why such a singular large meal approach could possibly impact longevity?

My speculation, possibly a lot of biochemistry and digestive related systems that have to be put in place to efficiently assimilate food. Eating three times in larger amounts (other than simple snacking) is ‘not normal’ (in a paleolithic sense), and may actually be inherently disruptful and stressful to the body. In essence, perhaps our body has been tuned to a daily single large meal over a large part of the evolutionary history of our human ancestors.

The related opinion of the author of the mice study, cited above, to quote:

"Perhaps this extended daily fasting period enables repair and maintenance mechanisms that would be absent in a continuous exposure to food."

However, I respond to this likely true point by asking: Why so on the timing/frequency? Perhaps, I contend, it is conditioning.

Other ideas?

Caution: Before attempting a one meal approach, read this article which also discloses likely RISKS at https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320125.php .

This article also notes the following benefits, to quote:

"The studies done on intermittent fasting show the following benefits:
it may help lower blood sugar levels and reduce weight in people with type 2 diabetes
it may positively affect the eating and sleeping cycles of people who are obese and increase their lifespan
it may benefit the cardiac system and improve memory"

The above points imply to me not a generic benefit to all, but a selective longevity boost in reduced life span subgroups, connected, for example, to those with heart related issues, diabetes and obesity. This would be at odds with the mice study (where I assume the lab mice are genetically homogeneous).

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by AJKOER]

morganbw - 2-7-2019 at 10:31

Good post sir,
The merit with the one meal a day?
We will see, it does, however, mostly follow/reflect my normal diet. I do not expect an extended life from it.

I hope it will be a benefit for those who try.

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 11:07

Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  
Good post sir,
The merit with the one meal a day?
We will see, it does, however, mostly follow/reflect my normal diet. I do not expect an extended life from it.

I hope it will be a benefit for those who try.


Thanks.
----------------------

While one may not expect benefits from normally good habits, like consuming pure water (avoiding chlorinated water exposed to copper plumbing, chlorates, bromide and heavy metals, halogen rich organics, problematic organisms,.. ) and air (free from dust, allergens, transition metals salts, microbes,....) likely tend to greatly lengthen our lives, nevertheless.

And, adding healthy foods to the list, with paths for there improved consumption, seems rational to me.

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by AJKOER]

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 11:14

Interesting, I can't open the first link, they apparently changed the location. Do you have another link?

My first thought is that a one meal a day diet still gets your body in a "dormant" state most of the day, just like a low calorie diet does. When cells are not doing anything they are also not killing themselves...

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 11:27

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Interesting, I can't open the first link, they apparently changed the location. Do you have another link?

My first thought is that a one meal a day diet still gets your body in a "dormant" state most of the day, just like a low calorie diet does. When cells are not doing anything they are also not killing themselves...

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]


I fixed it!

I apparently added a period at the end of the link....
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Interesting speculation, the dormant state hypothesis.

I learned recently that sugar is the superfood for cancer cells (per a discussion I recently have with a medical student working with my doctor), and extended fasting (or reduced eating frequency) means that cancer cells are likely weakened (or starved out of existence).

I mention this as I also read in Life Extension magazine results from a study claiming that the drug Metformin together with over the counter herb quercetin reportedly kills prostate cancer (confirmed here, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213406/ ), and there is research ongoing in other cancer studies as well. I asked the med student how this occurring, and was told that Metformin is extremely good at removing sugar from the blood!

Unfortunately, I was also told that drug Metformin can only be prescribed and taken safely if one's blood chemistry is off (like pre-diabetic ).

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by AJKOER]

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 11:59

You fixed it!

I'm not doubting these results, or well, I am... I just think they could be (in)valid. As this is usually never discussed, and I would be surprised if they did now:

Did they control for the fact that the mice being fed once a day see less humans compared to the mice being fed more often? Mice are hunted animals and show for example strong spikes in their cortisol level when a researcher opens the cage. Cortisol is known to shorten life. The mice used in laboratory are not the nice and tame mice someone could have in house, they are not used to humans because the have to be handled like the rest: solitary like the genetically modified strains without an immune.

I didn't read the whole article so I don't know, but if you are interested here is the original article (I already disliked it because of the animations used... but you might not).


Attachment: mitchell2018.pdf (2.1MB)
This file has been downloaded 351 times


[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 12:16

A quote from the mice study, as one of your comments relate to mice being less comparable to humans, a conclusion from a comparative cross species work, to quote:

" A recent comparative analysis of these studies indicated that CR and its associated mechanisms are likely to be highly relevant to human health and longevity (Mattison et al., 2017). "

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 12:36

I really don't care about "random statement"; published so it is true. It just doesn't work like that.

The article I just attached? Major flaw; check "EXPERIMENTAL MODEL AND SUBJECT DETAILS
Animals, Husbandry and Diets" Nothing is mentioned about how they actually feed the mice. They do actually state that the mice are raised solitary. So a big guy in a white coat comes in your solitary life all the day, there is a guy coming in twice a day against a guy coming in once a day. There is a reason they don't discuss this matter and that is because they can't pay for the automated systems that were designed to circumvent this problem.

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
A quote from the mice study, as one of your comments relate to mice being less comparable to humans,


Sorry, when did I say this?

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 13:00

Comments on diet at the beginning of the study (in SUMMARY), to quote:

"Here, we directly compare in mice the two diets used in the primate studies focusing on three paradigms: ad libitum (AL), 30% calorie restriction (CR), and single-meal feeding (MF), which accounts for differences in energy density and caloric intake consumed by the AL mice. MF and CR regimes enhanced longevity regardless of diet composition, which alone had no significant impact within feeding regimens. Like CR animals, MF mice ate quickly, imposing periods of extended daily fasting on themselves that produced significant improvements in morbidity and mortality compared with AL."

My guess is that if stress per human exposure was a major factor, the ad libitum (AL) group would fare better (just give them a lot of food and let them eat when and as much as they wanted, with limited human intervention).

However, this group have the most reduced life span.

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 13:03



[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 13:06

Of course eating unlimited amounts of crappy food doesn't make mice fare better.... I would never think that scaring the shit out of a mouse or a human once or twice a day would be worse than letting them have an Amercian diet.

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by Tsjerk]

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 13:32

I personally consume an educated diet (more details below), regardless of what country I find myself in.

I do find Indian cuisine rich in health promoting herbs (like tumeric), likewise for Thai.

I cook in coconut oil and avoid processed meats (nitrites and nitrates are reserved for radical rich chemistry outside of the human body, see http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/misc/hidden_h.htm).

While olive oil is good at room temperature, strong heating produces some rather unhealthy breakdown products. I also recommend fresh olive oil (which is much more powerful antioxidant than store brought, usually within 6 months of harvest) which is available (expensively via air) via Olive Oil Club (not affiliated but an occasional customer).

Colorful fruits (like mangos) are a bonanza of powerful antioxidants (which are quenchers of REDOX reactions liberating radicals) and plain lemon juice is rich in ascorbic and citric acid.
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The cure for the American (or bad other) diets is, in my opinion, socialized medicine! The government will come to understand the cost of unhealthy foods and remove them.

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by AJKOER]

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 13:40

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  

I do find Indian cuisine rich in health promoting herbs

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by AJKOER]


:):) have you ever been in India? I don't think so.

AJKOER - 2-7-2019 at 13:47

I was referring to the spice Tumeric!

To quote (see https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-h... ):

"Turmeric may be the most effective nutritional supplement in existence."

Tsjerk - 2-7-2019 at 13:54

As long as you don't drown it in saturated fat it might be healthy

andy1988 - 2-7-2019 at 14:28

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  

My question is: Can any biochemist explain to me why such a singular large meal approach could possibly impact longevity?

Related and high quality article:
Vigorous exercise, fasting, hormones improve elimination of toxic, misfolded, unnecessary proteins in mouse, human cells.

Examine.com is a great reference for supplements, e.g. curcumin.

clearly_not_atara - 2-7-2019 at 14:40

Eating one meal per day in a rat cage probably leads to lower ROS generation. The rats don't have anything to do, so their metabolism is more active when they eat, and they go dormant for the rest of the day.

Now, if you put those mice in a situation where cats were chasing them around, the ones who eat only one meal a day will probably get eaten first. And that's why I don't call it healthy.

kulep - 2-7-2019 at 15:57

The strongest arguments state that our sedentary lifestyle alters and suppresses many systems in our body that would be needed "in the wild" which in turn has many consequences.

I really recommend these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6EPuUdIC1E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2eU96vCCFU&t=1s

j_sum1 - 2-7-2019 at 16:59

Aside from the obvious difficulties in controlling variables, I would suspect that mouse metabolism is a poor predictor of human physiological response.

Pumukli - 3-7-2019 at 03:01

If glucose in our blood is the main culprit regarding cancer or longevity then there's the obvious limit how low we can go. The body has its own regulatory mechanisms and try to ballance the glocose level in a given range.

As a sidenote: I also heard that lowering body temperature can lead to longer life. But here we also "hit the wall" with the body regulatory mechanisms. It seems we are doomed. :(

Maybe, just maybe, if we were eating once a day our lunch naked then we'd have chance. :)

mayko - 3-7-2019 at 06:55

Have you checked the cereal aisle of your local grocery store? :cool: :P


AJKOER - 3-7-2019 at 13:49

Thanks for the graphics! I'm about to get off my chair and cheer for my Cheerios!!

Unfortunately that would be disruptive to my sedimentary lifestyle, which to date nearly all of my healthcare practitioners seem to be perfectly content with.

Does anyone else believe that there seems to be a prejudicial tendency to discount the origins of our human specie and, in so doing, be more approving of an apparently biologically incongruous diet along with a sedimentary lifestyle, which appears to be obviously detrimental to our immediate health and longevity?

Meanwhile, any recommendations for an online course on how to wrestle with a snake in the jungle?

[Edited on 3-7-2019 by AJKOER]

Morgan - 3-7-2019 at 20:25

A sedimentary lifestyle diet.
"Mud is a slurry of water and sediment dominated by clay and silt sized particles."
"The role of clays in human health has experienced a revival in interest due to advances in modern instrumentation [e.g., transmission electron microscopes (TEM), field emission scanning electron microscopes (FESEM), atomic force microscopy (AFM), and secondary ion mass spectrometers (SIMS)], that allow us to study surfaces of nano-scale minerals in situ within their natural environmental matrix."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904249/

Sedentary lifestyles in the news.
"Southern states often rate poorly in health statistics such as obesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes, and experts point to factors including poverty, poor diet, less access to health care, sedentary lifestyles and a tradition of fried foods. The study, Bornstein said, indicates that the same states “that are disproportionately burdensome for public health are also burdensome for our military.”
https://newsarchive.heart.org/unfit-u-s-army-recruits-may-po...

Sedentary 'ambush' predators - jungle snake tactics.
"Together, these data support the notion that the 'ambush' predator benefits by remaining sedentary within a retreat-site for long periods..."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9632520

Side note allegory
“A lot of reptiles are ambush predators,” keeper Alex Mitchell told IFLScience. “If they don't have to chase their prey they become sedentary and quite prone to obesity.”
"If there is one thing people don't come to zoos to see, it is flabby snakes ...
https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/zoo-creates-wo...


AJKOER - 5-7-2019 at 13:27

Thanks Morgan, so a sedimentary life style is truly mineral rich!

And as to a jungle survival tip, I am a bit unclear on your point, except perhaps, when wrestling a snake, not to feel sympathetic given that both of us may likely have suffered the ills of a sedentary lifestyle (or is that sedimentary if we both eat mud?).
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I do confess to employing a speak-to-text software, which does, at times, present some interesting results with words that sound similar.

[Edited on 5-7-2019 by AJKOER]

Morgan - 5-7-2019 at 17:20

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Thanks Morgan, so a sedimentary life style is truly mineral rich!

And as to a jungle survival tip, I am a bit unclear on your point, except perhaps, when wrestling a snake, not to feel sympathetic given that both of us may likely have suffered the ills of a sedentary lifestyle (or is that sedimentary if we both eat mud?).
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I do confess to employing a speak-to-text software, which does, at times, present some interesting results with words that sound similar.

[Edited on 5-7-2019 by AJKOER]


Well it was just a tip when venturing into the jungle to wrestle snakes. The first order would be cognizant to not let them get the jump on you being sedentary ambush hunters, camouflaged amongst the leaves and sedimentary soils.

It occurs that some sedentary snakes subscribe to a one meal, 180 day diet or biannual meal plan.
"4 months, while a long time to go without food for us, is not all that detrimental to a well established adult ball python."

Aside from geologists and geophagists who embrace sedimentary lifestyles, well meaning others do not.
https://jobufit.com/how-to-fix-the-sedimentary-lifestyle/



[Edited on 6-7-2019 by Morgan]

Diurea - 6-7-2019 at 13:00

Hello,

This is my first post. I read this and had to tell my (fathers) story. So roughly 5-6 years ago my pops had type II diabetes. Was taking metformin and peptide injections in the skin. He convinced himself via whatever research he had done that he only needed to eat one time a day. His doctor was pretty upset after he found out he started such a regimen. After all diabetics are supposed to eat regularly. My dad refused to change until his bloodwork showed otherwise.

To jump to the end of the story, he is now off all his medication (diabetic). His doctor (long time doc in family, all of us) has admitted he doesn’t understand it but “it’s working” so...

My dad claims, from what he can gather, that diabetes is caused by a fatty liver. We store fat in our liver and since we are constantly eating every 4 hours our livers don’t go through glycogen cycles and build up fat. I guess livers are responsible for insulin, idk I’m not a doc. Just what I remember him saying. Basically his thought is we hunted and gatgeeed in the day, ate a huge meal, and fell asleep by the fire in our primitive years.

After all these years and watching his body and medication change, I believe the guy. I know there’s some diabetics that would end up in the ER if they tried this though...

AJKOER - 6-7-2019 at 18:17

I'm sorry to say this, but in certain countries with a for-profit medical establishment, I really don't believe that ones best health is the chief objective of the medical practitioner. My doctors over time appear to be overly police from watch dog organizations threatening to take away their license if they don't tout the line of legally prescribed procedures. The latter, of which, appears to me to primarily support existing commercial (for example, pharmaceutical) interests.

Based on my direct experience with several doctors, they're not interested in what actually makes you healthy or prevents you from getting sick, they're just interested in doing their job, by the rules, not any breaking research results or alternative approaches demonstrating success, even though it may cost you your life!

That apparently is your job!

Relatedly, many years ago I actually tried to have a conversation with my doctor on the benefits of certain foods. Before I could even get too far into the conversation, I was immediately interrupted as he put up his hand and pointed to a food chart. For those who don't know what is a food chart, it is a politically / scientifically manufactured document that's supposed to tell you the amount of protein, vegetables, carbohydrates, sugar, excetera, one is supposed to have in their daily diet. This story is likely a true reflection of the sad state of health advice one is likely to get from your physician.

[Edited on 7-7-2019 by AJKOER]

S.C. Wack - 7-7-2019 at 16:27

I've done this forever with few exceptions and I doubt there are any health benefits to it. It's possible that it's screwing up my blood sugar and causing problems. Except for hair color I may not look like I'm past 50, but I feel like it and more.

Morgan - 8-7-2019 at 15:45

The tortoise fasting ability more or less. Longevity 150 years thereabouts.

"Galápagos tortoises are herbivores that eat prickly pear cactus (a favorite) and fruits, as well as flowers, leaves, and grasses. In fact, these tortoises can go without eating or drinking for up to a year, because they can store food and water so well. Tortoises don’t have teeth, so they use the bony outer edges of the mouth to bite off and mash food. Once in the mouth, food is quickly swallowed. They don’t have a good sense of smell, so they use their eyes to find food. Anything red really gets their attention!"
https://animals.sandiegozoo.org/animals/galapagos-tortoise

Maybe a single meal a day would tend to be less calories if you didn't eat junk food which might circumvent caloric intake. Whole fruits and vegetables are bulky.

AJKOER - 9-7-2019 at 06:41

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  

....
Maybe a single meal a day would tend to be less calories if you didn't eat junk food which might circumvent caloric intake. Whole fruits and vegetables are bulky.



The control mice study with a single meal category is NOT a reduced caloric diet. There are already studies indicated the benefits of the reduced caloric diet, but it remains an unappetizing choice for most people and as such, is not a threat to say, the billion dollar snack food industry, as would perhaps a single meal plan could be.

In my opinion, the weak argument presented against the single meal protocol is counter indicated by, for example, the mice study (there were NOT of a lot of sick mice to begin with that got better, given the homogeneous nature of the test mouse population). The real rationale is the fear of endorsing a growing potentially much more healthy meal protocol. The snack food industry, revenues in the billions by itself, could be impacted. There is also even the health industry special sectors addressing diabetes and other chronic conditions that may potentially be no longer a big growth business.

Only a truly selfless, honest and courageous medical practitioner would be crazy enough to take on giants as Coke, Pepsi, makers of potatoes chips, chocolate snack bars,....