Sciencemadness Discussion Board

What caused these salt crystals to appear

Yttrium2 - 16-8-2019 at 12:09

Appear so high on the pot?

IMG_20190816_130646636.jpg - 3.4MB

SWIM - 16-8-2019 at 16:28

Evaporation of the splashing liquid from the boiling water.

The large oval crystals that have formed in the pot are more confusing though.
But they're probably hollow spheres of calcium carbonate which formed around some albumins or other organics.

Appear so high on the pot?

Why yes, you do.

Yttrium2 - 16-8-2019 at 16:29

Salt was added, mind you.
I just don't see how it got coated all over the sides. It didn't seem to be splashing

DraconicAcid - 16-8-2019 at 17:03

When the water boils, each bubble sprays a fine mist of hot solution everywhere. That gives you the crystals.

Yttrium2 - 16-8-2019 at 17:08

What kind of distillation would seperate the two?

A Clausen adapter?

Abromination - 16-8-2019 at 19:13

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
What kind of distillation would seperate the two?

A Clausen adapter?

Stirring, a normal still head and a flask properly filled should be enough to prevent much salt from coming over.

vmelkon - 17-8-2019 at 20:10

A long glass tube in the style of a fractional distillation column with some glass beads should be able to catch the mist.

Ubya - 17-8-2019 at 23:29

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
When the water boils, each bubble sprays a fine mist of hot solution everywhere. That gives you the crystals.

exact reason why boiling heavy metal salts solution in an uncovered vessel is a bad idea for contamination.

what abromination said is right, with strong stirring big bubbles don't form ( and it doesn't bump), smaller bubbles make a smaller amount of mist, plus a normal flask already has a small neck, less mist can escape (a beaker has a big exposed surface area and not much containing power of the mist), add a short column if you are paranoid and just need to remove the solvent, or use a normal distillation setup if you want to recover everything.
now the real problem, an egg does not fit through a 24/40 joint, this could be a problem for your experiment of distilling salt water and eggs

unionised - 18-8-2019 at 03:04

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
What kind of distillation would seperate the two?

A Clausen adapter?

https://www.scilabware.com/en/quickfit-adapters-splash-head-...

unionised - 18-8-2019 at 03:06

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
the real problem, an egg does not fit through a 24/40 joint, this could be a problem for your experiment of distilling salt water and eggs

What problem?
https://www.scilabware.com/en/quickfit-retaining-clip-for-wi...

Ubya - 18-8-2019 at 07:06

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
the real problem, an egg does not fit through a 24/40 joint, this could be a problem for your experiment of distilling salt water and eggs

What problem?
https://www.scilabware.com/en/quickfit-retaining-clip-for-wi...


hahaha that's cheating!!!:D

Felis Corax - 18-8-2019 at 08:00

I have to ask... Distilling salt water in the presence of eggs? Is this some sort of bizarre experiment, or are you making hard boiled eggs? Or is it both?

Ubya - 18-8-2019 at 13:39

Quote: Originally posted by Felis Corax  
I have to ask... Distilling salt water in the presence of eggs? Is this some sort of bizarre experiment, or are you making hard boiled eggs? Or is it both?

he is yttrium2, don't ask, he is kinda special

Felis Corax - 19-8-2019 at 20:02

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
he is yttrium2, don't ask, he is kinda special


This only makes me more curious. I must know the secret of the eggsperiment!

teodor - 20-8-2019 at 04:28

My guess that the question was about the solvent and a salt, the eggs just are kind of accidental local contamination. I think any egg-contaminated solvent can be easily distilled from eggs, so, not a big problem. Except may be H2S leak.

So, I think H2S contamination is a kind of problem. Do it in a fume hood or outside.


[Edited on 20-8-2019 by teodor]

mayko - 20-8-2019 at 13:27

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  

now the real problem, an egg does not fit through a 24/40 joint, this could be a problem for your experiment of distilling salt water and eggs


There's a lifehack for this! You have to boil the egg first though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JBOX116Pzw

Steam - 20-8-2019 at 15:07

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  

now the real problem, an egg does not fit through a 24/40 joint, this could be a problem for your experiment of distilling salt water and eggs


You might be able to use Quail Eggs.
https://www.amazon.com/Turnbull-FarmsTM-Fresh-Gourmet-Quail/...

teodor - 21-8-2019 at 00:49

By the way, why some people use salt water to boil eggs. Are the eggs boiled in salt water different from those boiled in plain water?

Yttrium2 - 21-8-2019 at 06:37

I thought this was a good demonstation of how easily the salt travels. I'm sure a lot of peope would think that the salt would only be where the water line is.

In no way was the pot frothing up -- so the salt did travel quite a ways. I'm not so sure that a regular distillation apparatus could separate regular salt water without some sort of a splash head. Maybe with stirring, maybe if boiled slowly (another question: is there such thing as a slow boil/fast boil? cause water boils at 212f and no matter how hot you get it the water stays the same temperature)

I used salt water to get the water hotter, I didn't notice any difference.


In another experiment, I added salt water to boiling water to see if it would froth up like adding boiling stones to a boiling solvent -- I wondered if it would stop the boiling first or increase the boiling first by adding nucleation sites. -- As soon as the salt water entered the water, the boiling immediately stopped.


I'm just fooling around, making little elementary, if that observations with the naked eye. I really do need to get busy with the math, so I can get on with my major.

MrHomeScientist - 21-8-2019 at 06:46

DraconicAcid is correct. The fine mist caused by bubbling carries salt around. A regular distillation apparatus can most definitely separate salt from water - don't overcomplicate things. I've distilled many solvents from salts without issue. Just don't fill the boiling flask more than halfway, and mists and splashing are effectively contained to that flask and maybe the tube abovei it. If a trace of salt spray makes it to the receiver (and it's a problem for your intended use), just distill again.

In your other experiment, the main influence there is temperature. You poured (presumably) room temperature salt water into boiling water, and this reduced the overall temperature enough to bring it below the boiling point. To investigate your nucleation site hypothesis, you could try heating the salt water to the same temperature as your boiling water and then add them together. Note that this doesn't necessarily mean that both pots will be actively boiling.

Yttrium2 - 22-8-2019 at 15:49

Blah, I meant to say I added salt to the boiling water. It immediately quenched the boiling.

teodor - 23-8-2019 at 00:15

I think this experiment is interesting, with addition of a salt to a boiling water. Possible the frothing up is dependent only on the salt solubility. So, can you try with other salts?

Vomaturge - 23-8-2019 at 19:08

As far as why the salt is on the walls of the pot, either tiny flying droplets (i know it didn't look like it was spattering, because they are so small) or else evaporative creep although I think of that phenomenon as happening more slowly.

As far as whether you can get "fast" and "slow" boils, Definitely. The temperature of the water will be largely the same while boiling, regardless of how much heat is being added, but when heat is added more rapidly, that 212f water turns into steam more rapidly. That change from liquid to gas absorbs the extra energy and keeps the temperature at the boiling point, but creates steam more rapidly in the process.

Having done a little cooking myself, I will say that adding any cool material to water at its boiling point will usually cool it enough to stop the boiling for some seconds. I could go on with math about specific heats of various substances, and the temperature change required to stop boiling, but I can say that in real life 250 ml of dry grain will stop 2 liters of water from boiling for long enough to turn down the heat. If vigorous boiling does start again, it will foam and overflow.

As far as why you didn't see any boiling triggered by nucleation, that's because a normal pan with scratches and uneven heating at the bottom is already a good place for nucleation, and the water already wasn't superheated. Maybe try with a clean scratch free glass and heating in the microwave? Stand back, if you get the temp just right that should spray hot water pretty far.

[Edited on 24-8-2019 by Vomaturge]

Quieraña - 24-8-2019 at 20:32

Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
By the way, why some people use salt water to boil eggs. Are the eggs boiled in salt water different from those boiled in plain water?


I'm so glad that somebody asked this. The reason that I can come to is that at different altitudes you have different boiling points. 25 years ago I lived in Colorado and just above Denver and Boulder we had to boil water longer to make boiled eggs and water also froze at a higher temperature interesting quality for the compound. Salt water freezes below freshwater's freezing point and the same can be said of the boiling it boils higher than freshwater's boiling point so this would solve the altitude problem hope this helps. :)

[Edited on 25-8-2019 by Quieraña]

teodor - 27-8-2019 at 04:42

Well, I was always curious what is the relationship between water and its boiling temperature and protein folding. As far as I understand folding of eggs proteins makes eggs "boiled", not evaporation of internal water. If you have experience of poor eggs cooking in high altitude I suspect that forming of steam around eggs is also not very important for preparing them, but some magic of boiling water temperature at sea level.

Alas, I see no advantage of using eggs, even Quail Eggs as boiling chips if they work only starting from 100 degrees C.

One day I will try to prepare eggs by alcohol injection, I red it helps to fold proteins keeping the reaction temperature much lower.



[Edited on 27-8-2019 by teodor]