Sciencemadness Discussion Board - LSD on antipsychotics

LSD on antipsychotics

Romix - 3-4-2020 at 21:25

I'm having antipsychotic called Palliperidone injected in my arm every month, on it for almost 3 years.
After taking LSD I don't see hallucinations, on high dosages over 1 mg only pink dots appear on the walls...
And I don't get drunk of alcohol.
Why?

Sigmatropic - 3-4-2020 at 21:35

LSDs effects are mediated through serotonergic and adrenergic receptors. That paliperidone is an inverse agonist or antagonist at the very same receptors. Not surprising it alters the effects. It would be interesting to compare selectivity profiles but I couldn't find a complete list, although Wikipedia has a decent amount of them.

Not becoming drunk, I don't understand.

karlos³ - 4-4-2020 at 05:22

Aren't these compounds rather potentiating the effects of other sedatives like alcohol, I mean, usually neuroleptic antipsychotics are more or less sedating too?
I would not recommend to combine them in such experiments, that is not very smart and potentially dangerous or even worse.

But then again, I think you are maybe trolling, because 1mg of LSD?
That is really quite a large dosage.
I don't see the reason trying to combine that, these medications act as antagonist on certain dopamin subreceptor types and usually act antagonistic for serotonin too.
That explains why they are the exact opposite of drugs which are fun, and I would assume that is why you try to use alcohol or LSD, simply to get out of these horribly sounding effects of the medication.
But you don't have to take it forever(you don't have to, right?), so pull yourself together, it will be over some time(hopefully) and steer away from these useless experiments with other drugs, its a waste of money and probably hard on your already heavily strained brain chemistry.

I think there is a good reason why they are called "chemical lobotomisation", and it is understandable it is not pleasant to have this all the time without a way to escape from it at all.

Fery - 4-4-2020 at 08:41

Romix: Paliperidone is a remedy to treat psychotic symptoms and psychotic disorders. Hallucinations are one of psychotic symptoms. Did you mean 1 ug of LSD, not 1 mg? Why are you abusing shits like LSD/alcohol when you are undergoing a treatment of some serious mental problems/disorder?
karols3: some psychotic disorders require long term treatment and some of them even forever.

Romix - 4-4-2020 at 08:58

Quote: Originally posted by Fery

Romix: Paliperidone is a remedy to treat psychotic symptoms and psychotic disorders. Hallucinations are one of psychotic symptoms. Did you mean 1 ug of LSD, not 1 mg? Why are you abusing shits like LSD/alcohol when you are undergoing a treatment of some serious mental problems/disorder?
karols3: some psychotic disorders require long term treatment and some of them even forever.

1mg - 1000ug

mayko - 4-4-2020 at 11:33

aripiprazole and mescaline is a big wet fart too, from what I hear

morganbw - 4-4-2020 at 12:12

Romix sir,
You may become a brilliant chemist. I do not know????
Do take care on ingesting certain chemicals/perhaps all. Your experience would probably not help most. I am sure that you realize that your mind is somewhat different than most.
Please take into account your current medicine/drug use and go from there.

Herr Haber - 4-4-2020 at 13:39

Now that's though. No trip from "1mg - 1000ug" ?
That's 10 blotters or so

What a waste

mackolol - 5-4-2020 at 10:31

Psychedelics don't work when on antipsychotics no matter how high dose will you take. You could take as well 5mg of LSD.
If you are having a bad trip, or you just want to end your psychedelic high solution is just to take antipsychotics or benzodiazepines.

[Edited on 5-4-2020 by mackolol]

Cou - 5-4-2020 at 17:16

Oh yes, LSD. The drug that makes you think you're an expert on quantum physics, philosophy, sociology, psychology, theology, cosmology, buddhism, and metaphysics, when you haven't even read a single book about those subjects.

not against you, but that's a stereotype i see often. and i say this from experience, psychedelics often make you mentally masturbate about how smart you are, and your potential of doing smart things, when you actually don't do anything. e.g. you fantasize about the idea of doing math, then you look at an actual linear algebra textbook and go "i don't feel like it"

Vosoryx - 5-4-2020 at 17:26

Quote: Originally posted by Cou

Oh yes, LSD. The drug that makes you think you're an expert on quantum physics, philosophy, sociology, psychology, theology, cosmology, buddhism, and metaphysics, when you haven't even read a single book about those subjects.

not against you, but that's a stereotype i see often. and i say this from experience, psychedelics often make you mentally masturbate about how smart you are, and your potential of doing smart things, when you actually don't do anything. e.g. you fantasize about the idea of doing math, then you look at an actual linear algebra textbook and go "i don't feel like it"

I assure you your experiences are not universal.

And no matter how high of a dose you take of psychedelics, taking antipsychotics or some ssris (like trazodone for example) will cancel any effects. Not good for your brain chemistry either.

stoichiometric_steve - 6-4-2020 at 10:05

Quote: Originally posted by Cou

psychedelics often make you mentally masturbate about how smart you are

I can't say i've ever witnessed someone coming off like that, you're most likely hanging out with people that already had this kind of mindset to begin with.

Probably not the most pleasant type of person to be around, regardless of intoxication.

Come to think of it, that's exactly what the POTUS acts like. I guess those people take after him then!

[Edited on 6-4-2020 by stoichiometric_steve]

karlos³ - 6-4-2020 at 12:08

For me it is exactly the opposite.
Whenever I take these kind of drugs, I am astonished, as I see out of pure bliss things I never seen this way and it makes me kinda feel like how I do know almost nothing to begin with.

mackolol - 7-4-2020 at 03:06

Microdosing of psychedelics is very interesting thing. One takes very small doses of psychedelics (LSD or shrooms are the most common for this technique) it can help with some mental problems or just boost creativity, happiness, motivation as well as desire to live.

There is a nice website that describes benefits, contains guide and explains how it scientifically works.
Microdosing is not common and not many people know about it, but it's really worthy knowledge.

Link to the website: https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing/mushrooms/

Cou - 7-4-2020 at 03:34

the mad scientist's two favorite drugs: ethanol and DMT

karlos³ - 7-4-2020 at 04:33

I do microdosing occasionally and it works, it is magnificent how good even.
When I did it the first time, I was really surprised how intense the effects were when they slowly started to manifest.
I can really recommend that.

Pyro_cat - 18-4-2020 at 00:06

Quote: Originally posted by Romix

I'm having antipsychotic called Palliperidone injected in my arm every month, on it for almost 3 years.
After taking LSD I don't see hallucinations, on high dosages over 1 mg only pink dots appear on the walls...
And I don't get drunk of alcohol.
Why?

Anti psychotic a dopamine antagonist it blocks up the keyholes so if you try and get drunk or high it wont work.

Problem is you grow more keyholes

Antipsychotic-Induced Dopamine Supersensitivity

I would medicate by mouth and try to keep the dose as low as possible as needed instead of being stuck on fixed dose with those injections.

Those injections are designed for compliance and the benefit of the system not yours.

mindfreedom dot org

[Edited on 18-4-2020 by Pyro_cat]

Pyro_cat - 18-4-2020 at 00:27

I believe I am too old to ever do LSD again. I really couldn't re live the magic and possibly have a bad episode even though back in the day I never did.

No one can ever tell a long animated story about the night they drank alcohol or took cocaine that shit always ends bad but that night when we were tripping on acid and we .... (long ass fun stories go here)

You could see the gravity waves coming off the flywheel of the engine...

The old tube TVs when you turned them upside down the colors would change...

Pushing shopping carts with the car and crashing them into things then laughing and the next day your cheeks hurt.

Six Flags Great Adventure !

Blue unicorns, fritz the cat, flying mothers, bart simpsons ...

LOL !

Pyro_cat - 18-4-2020 at 00:49

That time driving.

Instead of the car moving forward I was staying in the same spot and vacuuming the world into me. Front wheel drive was kind of new I think thats what started it.

OMG you guys be careful though !

And the TV upside that will flip your world I bet even if the new TVs don't change colors. Me and andy started seeing thinking the same things then WTF spiders all over the house but for real. They just like hatched no way dude not now.

Then that time with billy we were watcxhing some Vietnam war movie and the ceiling fans in the room synced up with the helicopters in the movie and unlike any other time I get sleepy and started to dose off. Billy is like no dont leave me !

The hardest part was sleeping after but that time I wanted to sleep as it was going on.

I never really "hallucinated" more of an intense enhancement

The carnival and a ride called the gravitron OMG !

These were the blue unicorns of the 1980s

[Edited on 18-4-2020 by Pyro_cat]

symboom - 18-4-2020 at 09:02

That's interesting
Antipsychotic-Induced Dopamine Supersensitivity

Anti psychotic a dopamine antagonist it blocks up the keyholes so if you try and get drunk or high it wont work.

Problem is you grow more keyholes

Seems like there is a rebound effect to the brains receptors
Such that anti opioids (opioid antagonist)might actually help pain patients if they are discontinued.

Same difference if an opioid is stopped the person becomes
Hypersensitive then a lower dose opioid is needed for pain relief starting the tolerence back down

Same diffence antoserotonic compounds could help a person's mood due to the body readjusting.

If the pendulum of the brains rebound effect could be harnessed to make new treatments for many aliments
Lowereng the chance a person may form a tolerance to a drug.

[Edited on 18-4-2020 by symboom]

Fery - 18-4-2020 at 23:12

symboom - it's very common effect in pharmacy / medicine
you suppress a receptor -> body increases the receptor synthesis
it concerns not only brain but almost everything possible and not only receptors - e.g. you block trombocytes (blood platelets) with acetylsalicylic acid which usually forces the body to synthesize more trombocytes and increase their concentration
because of very strong binding of antipsychotics to dopamine receptors there were developed new antipsychotics which do not only block the receptor but also have some internal stimulating effect on the receptor (which must be lower than stimulating effect of original neuromediator dopamine) - e.g. aripiprazole (partial agonist of D2 receptors)

Cou - 24-4-2020 at 02:04

Quote: Originally posted by Pyro_cat

That time driving.

Instead of the car moving forward I was staying in the same spot and vacuuming the world into me. Front wheel drive was kind of new I think thats what started it.

OMG you guys be careful though !

And the TV upside that will flip your world I bet even if the new TVs don't change colors. Me and andy started seeing thinking the same things then WTF spiders all over the house but for real. They just like hatched no way dude not now.

Then that time with billy we were watcxhing some Vietnam war movie and the ceiling fans in the room synced up with the helicopters in the movie and unlike any other time I get sleepy and started to dose off. Billy is like no dont leave me !

The hardest part was sleeping after but that time I wanted to sleep as it was going on.

I never really "hallucinated" more of an intense enhancement

The carnival and a ride called the gravitron OMG !

These were the blue unicorns of the 1980s

[Edited on 18-4-2020 by Pyro_cat]

woah XD

outer_limits - 24-4-2020 at 02:36

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³

I do microdosing occasionally and it works, it is magnificent how good even.
When I did it the first time, I was really surprised how intense the effects were when they slowly started to manifest.
I can really recommend that.

It could be dangerous. I don't know if results of this study are relevant to LSD also but repeated administration of psilocybin can damage blood vessels and lead to ischaemic disease.
Polish medical academy conducted a research:

Quote:

MORPHOLOGICAL CHANGES IN MYOCARDIUM AND CORONARY VESSELS OBSERVED AFTER PSILOCIN ADMINISTRATION IN EXPERIMENTAL CONDITIONS Abstract Introduction and aims: Apart from psychodysleptic effects, natural hallucinogens may exhibit organ toxicity e.g., to the cardiovascular system. The aim of this paper is to evaluate morphological changes, such as histopathological and morphometric ones, observed in experimental conditions in rats under repeated administration of psilocin - an alkaloid present in hallucinogenic mushrooms, also known as magic mushrooms. Materials and methods: The study was performed on three-month-old male Wistar rats repeatedly given psilocin. The post-mortem biological material was collected in order to analyze morphological changes in the myocardium and coronary vessels using histopathological and morphometric studies. Results: Morphological changes occurred in the myocardium and coronary vessels in the form of subendocardial fibrosis, increase in the volume of loose connective tissue of the stroma, perivascular fibrosis and thickening of the vascular walls. Conclusion: Repeated administration of psilocin in rats is associated with morphological changes both in the myocardium and the coronary vessels walls. Keywords: Psylocin, hallucinogenic mushrooms (magic mushrooms), cardiotoxic effect. (Received: 24.05.2017; Revised: 25.05.2017; Accepted: 31.05.2017)

mackolol - 24-4-2020 at 07:11

Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits

That's why you do it with very small doses and once per 3 days. And to be honest, I don't think that psychedelics induce some big heart damage compared to stimulants for example which are quite safe if taken reasonably. Next thing is that you don't microdose all your life. Usually it's like a month or two.

outer_limits - 24-4-2020 at 11:08

Sure, in comparison to stimulant drugs they are almost harmless. But to be honest - you can never be sure that they won't do different type of damage.
I'm not sure if there is something which you can name "taking in responsible manner" without the psychologist who knows what psychedelics are and how to handle both: them and their possible adverse effects.
If you asked me few years ago I would answer totally the same. Now I am not so sure and I think that taking psychedelic drugs is similar to a bungee jumping. You don't know the crew; you don't know the gear - you don't have any control. Even if you think you have, you don't.

I used to take psychedelics which I really loved. Unfortunately, I can't do it anymore and I really miss them

karlos³ - 24-4-2020 at 20:03

What, why would you need and want any control, its a psychedelic experience, you're not driving a car

That sounds like a recipe for a long lasting disturbance between you and psychedelics, with such an underlying issue, especially since the fear of loosing control is something very deeply seated...
Wouldn't be surprised if the right person could fix that, which in turn would enable you to use those compounds again.
But I am just guessing based on those two statements, maybe you can't use them anymore because of something completely different, something neurological/or some medication resulting in neurological changes that make them ineffective for you?
I pity you, but I am sure(or hope) that it isn't as horrible as the OP and the prospect that whatever it is will be over soon, is already in reach for you.

outer_limits - 24-4-2020 at 20:55

You're right - maybe a will to keep any control was too strong

mackolol - 25-4-2020 at 05:41

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³

What, why would you need and want any control, its a psychedelic experience, you're not driving a car

It all depends on you, how familiar are you with these compounds and how well can you control yourself and of course how big dose you take.
For example my friend on new years eve, took 150ug of LSD, pretty normal dose, but no one from his company couldn't tell that he was tripping although they knew that and he definitely was. Of course he couldn't drive a car
So you can control yourself on psychedelics

Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits

Sure, in comparison to stimulant drugs they are almost harmless. But to be honest - you can never be sure that they won't do different type of damage.
I'm not sure if there is something which you can name "taking in responsible manner" without the psychologist who knows what psychedelics are and how to handle both: them and their possible adverse effects.
If you asked me few years ago I would answer totally the same. Now I am not so sure and I think that taking psychedelic drugs is similar to a bungee jumping. You don't know the crew; you don't know the gear - you don't have any control. Even if you think you have, you don't.

And neither do I think that they can cause psychical damage. Psychedelics can deepen your psychological problems or cause them if you're prone to them. But if you're totally healthy, they don't cause damage.

[Edited on 25-4-2020 by mackolol]

outer_limits - 25-4-2020 at 09:42

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol

Psychedelics can deepen your psychological problems or cause them if you're prone to them. But if you're totally healthy, they don't cause damage.

So... you just wrote that they don't do damage but they do if you have those 'famous predispositions'.
There are such predispositions but usual psychedelic drug user has no knowledge about mental health, psychiatry and psychology. It's very common to hear the words you wrote but it's a bullshit.

Imagine such a situation. You are healthy person without any mental/psychological issues that you know about.
After a psychedelic experience your state changed to for example: paranoid or suicidal, requiring long medical treatment.
So, before psychedelic experience you lived normally, after the trip you have a really hard time and possibilities to recover are not known. Your state has dramatically worsened - isn't a damage?

I am not against psychedelic drugs, but there is no need to defend them in such a way. Their neurological mechanism of action is so profound that even healthy people can develop PTSD after a really bad experience. As any other biologically active compound - they have adverse effects. And honestly, if somebody says they don't have any - he's a liar. Even if they are preety rare they still exists.

You can always say that 'somebody was prone to such problems' - but without any scientific background and professional approach it's just a lie.
You could say that only after psychological and psychiatric screenings conducted by experienced professionals.

[Edited on 25-4-2020 by outer_limits]

mackolol - 25-4-2020 at 12:57

Yes of course, some of the LSD users can develop PTSD after very profound and bad experience. But there are also very heavy users of psychedelics, that take Acid once or twice a week. They become quite weird, especially sociable, but they and don't seem to have mental issues.

DrRadium - 15-12-2021 at 00:55

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol

Psychedelics don't work when on antipsychotics no matter how high dose will you take. You could take as well 5mg of LSD.
If you are having a bad trip, or you just want to end your psychedelic high solution is just to take antipsychotics or benzodiazepines.

[Edited on 5-4-2020 by mackolol]

I know I'm way late for the parade, but I just joined the board and as it happens I cam address the question of psychedelic interactions with antipsychotics about as definitively as you are going to get. I'm an MD/PhD. and my research was on central serotonergic function. This is solidly within my professional sphere.

The effect pf antipsychotics on psychedelics all boils down to 5HT2A receptor function. Classic psychedelics, both indoleakylamines and phenylethylamines, produce their effects through agonist activity at the 2A receptor. Not all 2A agonists have psychedelic effects, ergotamine for example. The reason is ligand directed signaling. Activation of the 2A receptor can activate multiple second messenger pathways, psychedelic agonists have a particular profile of intracellular effects on activation. Read all about it here. Lots of good references in that paper too.

For example, work done mostly in Franz Vollenweider's lab, found that in healthy volunteers given LSD or psilocybin, the 5HT2A antagonist ketanserin blocks their psychedelic effects. This is where antipsychotics come into it. Newer, 'atypical' antipsychotics are distinguished from classic 'typical' antipsychotics that block dopamine D2 receptors, by also having effects on the serotonin system mostly via antagonist activity at 5HT2A receptors. In some atypicals such as risperidone, 2A antagonism is extremely strong even at very low doses. In the case of risperidone, at or below the lowest effective antipsychotic dose.

But not all antipsychotics will block psychedelics. Older 'typical' antipsychotics do not. Haloperidol, a high potency selective D2 antagonist has little effect on the trip itself. Benzodiazepines will sedate you and make you less anxious abiut the intense psychedelic effects, but has little effect on the trip itself.

True story. I was working one night at in the psych ER at the county hospital of a major US city to remain nameless. Heard about a college student coming in freaking out after taking a large number of mushrooms he'd cultivated. Normally I didn't find out about cases like that until they have mostly cleared and show up on the psych side of the ER. He was freaking out less when he got there (his 'better living through chemistry; T-shirt was a nice touch), but he was almost completely incoherent, unable to string together 2 or 3 words that went well together. IIRC, he had wet himself. Tried to tell him I was giving him a medication to stop the trip and gave him 0.5 or 1mg (can't remember it was 15+ years ago), risperidone by mouth. Usual dose is 1 to 6 mg a day. Came back about 40-45 min later. He is sitting up, in scrubs to replace the wet pants, speaking in complete sentences, damn near stone cold sober. Talking with him, he'd gotten a bumper crop his first time growing mushrooms and severely underestimated the potency of fresh picked and dried mushrooms over ones he had bought. So about 60 minutes after arriving unable to speak, he was getting ready to be discharged and go home. And not take so many at once next time.

Paloperidone is, like risperidone a high potency antagonist at D2 and the 5HT2A (Ki = 0.4nM). It is entirely to be expected that it will prevent psychedelic drug effects. Other atypical antipsychotics have different affinities for 5HT2A receptors and their ability to block psychedelics will be proportional to their 5HT2A blockade in vivo. The ones that have the highest affinity will do the best in terminating a trip. Of import, some of these notably risperidone may be available as quick acting orally disintegrating tablets.

The alcohol effect the OP described is idiosyncratic as it is not an general effect of atyptical antipsychotics nor of paloperidone in particular. If anything, they are likely to increase sedation from alcohol in proportion to their own sedative effects.

The obligatory disclaimer. I am not giving medical advice, nor forming any type of doctor-patient relationship with anyone. Nor am I encouraging use of psychedelics in any setting.

My terrible typing skills, arthritic thumbs, and ability to read what I intended to write not what I wrote ask you to tolerate ny uncorrected typos.

[Edited on 15-12-2021 by DrRadium]

[Edited on 15-12-2021 by DrRadium]

[Edited on 15-12-2021 by DrRadium]

DrRadium - 15-12-2021 at 02:02

Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits

Quote:

Cardiac effects from serotonergic drugs are linked to effects from activation of another serotonin receptor, the 5HT2B, in thr heart. Chronic agonism at the 2B can cause cardiac fibrosis and valvulopathy, apparently via simulation of cardiac fibroblast activity. This is what got fenfluramine pulled from the market. This id now something new serotonergic drugs are screened for. Of note, it really does require chronic dosing, single doses don't carry lsubstatial risk, but potent 2B agonists taken frequently have serious cardiac risks. And here is a full text review compliments of the NIH.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3179857/

Psilocybin/psilosin are partial agonists at 5HT2B receptors, with moderate affinity, but low efficacy in activating the receptor (the partial agonism is weak). MDMA and metabolites have substantial 5HT2B agonist activity. The NIMH Psychoactive Drug Screening Program run by Bryan Roth provide data about receptor binding profiles for both old and new drugs, and proved useful in IDing hazardous drugs when the link between cardiac fibrosis and 5HT2B agonism was detected. PDSP data is available to the public here.
One caveat to keep in mind is that the conditions in which the binding is tested is too often far from physiologic, so real in vivo binding many differ.

Microdosing creates issues obviously. On one hand, it's chronic dosing which is where the danger lies. OTOH it's micro, so it is possible that dosing is under threshold for biological effects. It's unclear at present but is on minds of scientists in the field.

Digging up references I came across an online literature review by an exercise physiologist on of the safety of psilocybin in regards to cardiac fibrosis that was an easy read and does a good job of laying out the issues involved https://drbillsukala.com/psilocybin-heart-valve-damage/

One last reference, a huge one on psychedelics by Dave Nichols, who curiously, looks (and whose voice sounds) a lot like a classic American version of Santa Claus.

[Edited on 15-12-2021 by DrRadium]

karlos³ - 15-12-2021 at 02:43

Quote: Originally posted by DrRadium

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol

True story. I was working one night at in the psych ER at the county hospital of a major US city to remain nameless. Heard about a college student coming in freaking out after taking a large number of mushrooms he'd cultivated. Normally I didn't find out about cases like that until they have mostly cleared and show up on the psych side of the ER. He was freaking out less when he got there (his 'better living through chemistry; T-shirt was a nice touch), but he was almost completely incoherent, unable to string together 2 or 3 words that went well together. IIRC, he had wet himself. Tried to tell him I was giving him a medication to stop the trip and gave him 0.5 or 1mg (can't remember it was 15+ years ago), risperidone by mouth. Usual dose is 1 to 6 mg a day. Came back about 40-45 min later. He is sitting up, in scrubs to replace the wet pants, speaking in complete sentences, damn near stone cold sober. Talking with him, he'd gotten a bumper crop his first time growing mushrooms and severely underestimated the potency of fresh picked and dried mushrooms over ones he had bought. So about 60 minutes after arriving unable to speak, he was getting ready to be discharged and go home. And not take so many at once next time.

Thank you for joining, what an interesting biography!

I have myself experienced exactly the same.
Although, the "psychedelic" was actually a deliriant(it was datura flower whiskey), and the antidote was haloperidol....
I remember sitting on a sofa, after having drunk that stuff from the little plastic beaker they gave me...

And how I, shyly, approached them at their counter an half hour later, asking wtf happened and why I'm there....
That was after the haldol "kicked in" and I saw reality again as what it is.
Lesson learned was, not to use nightshade derived deliriants ever again....

SWIM - 15-12-2021 at 16:15

Datura flowers are mean stuff.

Especially if you take them together with mescaline.

Going rock climbing with Bob Dobbs.

[Edited on 16-12-2021 by SWIM]

DrRadium - 19-12-2021 at 13:58

Quote: Originally posted by SWIM

Datura flowers are mean stuff.

Especially if you take them together with mescaline.

[Edited on 16-12-2021 by SWIM]

I don't know why anyone would want to take perfectly good mescaline and f-it up with scopalamine. Other than maybe a transderm scop patch for nausea.

SWIM - 19-12-2021 at 15:13

Quote: Originally posted by DrRadium

Quote: Originally posted by SWIM

Datura flowers are mean stuff.

Especially if you take them together with mescaline.

[Edited on 16-12-2021 by SWIM]

I don't know why anyone would want to take perfectly good mescaline and f-it up with scopalamine. Other than maybe a transderm scop patch for nausea.

This combination was used somewhere in South America at one time.
However just because it was a practice of some indigenous peoples doesn't mean it was a good idea.
I think William Emboden maybe mentioned this combination in one of his works.

aab18011 - 20-12-2021 at 09:58

Just to add some info about alcohol.

Alcohol overlaps the 5HT2A and 5HT2B receptor pathways

800px-Release,_Reuptake,_and_Metabolism_Cycle_of_GABA.png - 208kB

In this photo you see gamma aminobutryic acid cycling. GABA is mediated by alcohol directly.

The ion channel GIRK is mediated by the 5HT2A and 5HT2B circuits which are mediated by LSD and others. Things like apiperazole can block or modulate GIRK and other ion channels indirectly.

What does this mean in plain english, well, basically you have a very high tolerance for alcohol, not because you metabolize it faster but rather because your body requires larger doses to feel the effects. Be careful as this also means you still have the same toxicity to it, thus you may drink more anticipating a reaction and you will be much closer to the LD50. Id steer clear of this as the GABA modulation will mess up your apiperazole cycle.

A good example of the issues that arise here are the deadly combo of benzodiazepines and alcohol. The GABA receptors have binding affinities for benzos and other related ones.

Paliperidone is a 5HT2,3,4 antagonist (as far as we can tell) and thus directly interacts with other pathways. A photo below shows one of the many interactions, specifically GIRK in this case. But there are probably between 10 and 40 interactions depending on what part of the body it was absorbed. The 5HT family is all over the body in varying amounts. The main location is the brain, where it has the highest concentration of proteins in this family with exception to 5HT3.

5-Hydroxytryptamine-Receptor-Family-1.png.jpg - 43kB

To give you insight on why drugs like Risperidone are antidotes:
Risperidone is a potent antagonists, and this means theh will selectively compete with other chemicals to bind to the protein. So paliperidone is actually even stronger than risperidone (which is given less nowadays) and can actually outcompete the normals agonists. The point of the medication when not used for antidote purposes is that it stops overactive receptors (because schizophrenia does that).

[Edited on 12-20-2021 by aab18011]

[Edited on 12-20-2021 by aab18011]