Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Red Phosphorus, Acetone, and The Striker

Yttrium2 - 20-6-2020 at 09:52

Just wanted to post a heads up for anyone trying to recover Red Phosphorus from the matchbook strikers.


When the Phosphorus is removed from the match book striker, and the striker is soaking in acetone, it can ignite upon contact with the matches without any real friction,


my question is why is this?

I thought it would be worth sharing this.


Swinfi2 - 21-6-2020 at 07:26

Most likely the acetone dissolves minute amounts of the oxidant and brings it into contact with the remaining red P.

But I don't have any evidence to back up my hypothesis.

Mateo_swe - 21-6-2020 at 12:20

I dont understand why would one go through all the trouble of scraping off the red P from hundreds of matchboxes when you can just buy the red P online.
The safety matches that are used nowadays shouldnt ignite without friction or heat.
Maybe heat is developed when you add acetone that mixes the potassium chlorate & sulfur from the matchheads and the rep phosporus from the strike pad.

karlos³ - 21-6-2020 at 12:23

Because it is restricted in some places? Or precisely, I think only the states, where Yttrium2 is located?
I understand that.

Mateo_swe - 21-6-2020 at 13:23

Oh, I thought they had more liberal laws regarding chemicals.
Or maybe this is an exception.

Yttrium2 - 21-6-2020 at 13:30

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe  
Oh, I thought they had more liberal laws regarding chemicals.
Or maybe this is an exception.



Care to elaborate on what you are saying?

Mateo_swe - 21-6-2020 at 14:17

With the more liberal laws regarding chemicals?

Well, take sulphuric acid for an example, you can not buy that where i live but is available in every hardware store in US.
Same with nitrates, not available here but is in every hardware store is US in form of stump remover.
And the exception with red P might be as US have lots of problems with meth and they simply tried to get it under control with banning the chemicals used to make it.
For some strange reason meth is not popular in Europe, at least not in the northern parts.
And red P is not really available everywhere here but its found in some parts of Europe and as we have customs free shipping between EU countrys red P is easy to buy and get delivered.

Syn the Sizer - 21-6-2020 at 14:45

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe  
Oh, I thought they had more liberal laws regarding chemicals.
Or maybe this is an exception.


I believe it is the total opposite, aren't the States far more strict with chemicals?

Edit:
Though I guess I am comparing to Canada, I can't say about EU countries.

[Edited on 21-6-2020 by Syn the Sizer]

SWIM - 21-6-2020 at 15:24

I'm in the western USA.

The last time this subject came up I actually found a listing on Ebay for phosphorous from the Russian Federation, posted it here, and bought some myself which was delivered to me.

No complication from customs, no visits from law enforcement.


Maybe I got lucky, but I don't think so.

I don't think they're too worried about somebody buying an ounce or two once in a while.

Just don't buy 10 tonnes on Alibaba for the volume price break.







violet sin - 21-6-2020 at 15:27

Bonnidine or spectracide stump remover can easily be metabisulphite as I found out. Only needed a few grams one time, got SMB instead, took it back begrudgingly. :( Lowe's building supplies does not carry nitrate variety here in northern CA. The also do not sell janitorial ammonia 10%, red devil lye, and I'm sure a few others. But ace hardware does, you can often find a pound or two of sodium nitrite there in the fishing section for bait curing, a whole display of lye, ammonia, bleach, muriatic acid .. my take, it's down to insurance premium costs. Lowe's/home depot are bigger companies and have a lot to loose if people start suing them because their kid does something dumb with supplies bought there. The revenue potentially lost to that is no win over the revenue lost to note selling those products.

I'd love to own a tiny useful amount of things like P and I for experimentation, not production. It seems like they are available in the states legally. United nuclear sells samples of both. It IS a far cry from having right to buy a kilo for the storage bin.
Iodine - "NOTE: Federal regulations limit purchase of this chemical to 1 ounce per year per customer."

Yttrium2 - 21-6-2020 at 16:04

back to my original question/statement,


any ideas as to why the two will ignite without friction once mixed in acetone? is acetone a catalyst?

karlos³ - 21-6-2020 at 16:19

In terms of that it allows the reaction due to its solvating properties, I would guess yes, it acts as a catalyst since it brings the two reagents in contact?