Sciencemadness Discussion Board

solvent tin can lied about its composition, but it may contain phenol

Ubya - 26-6-2020 at 08:05

I bought a tin of solvent that "had" as composition only toluene and methanol.
while trying to mix it with water to see how much was toluene and how much was methanol i saw something i didn't expect.
first of all, the smell, this stuff doesn't smell like toluene, or methanol, it smells like DAS (an italian synthetic modelling clay), then when i poured it into a graduated cylinder i could see that this solution is not clear at all, it is milky white, and on addition of water i don't get 2 phases....

searching on the web i found a pdf with the real composition of this stuff (but still very generic).
it should contain "oil from carbonic bitumens" (literal translation, i have no idea of what it means), phenol and sodic soap.

now i'm interested in the phenol:D

whatever this "oil of carbonic bitumens" is (a heavy hydrocarbons mixture maybe), it is apolar, so if it wasn't for the soap, i could add a base and extract the phenolate in aqueous solution.
so how do i get rid of this soap?
if i acidify the solution it should turn the soap back into the fatty acid and inorganic salt (that would precipitate out), but now if i try to basify again to make the phenolate, i will also make the soap again...

do you know a way to get around this? i have 1L of this stuff

[Edited on 26-6-2020 by Ubya]

Ubya - 26-6-2020 at 08:50

ok probably i got double lied, i tested this stuff with iron (III) chloride, and i got no color change....


draculic acid69 - 26-6-2020 at 18:02

First step is distill out the methanol/toluene and then continue heating gently until the next best.p. is reached shall help u tell what is in it. Then u might need to a/b any residual soaps/phenols depending on what you think u have

Ubya - 27-6-2020 at 02:43

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
First step is distill out the methanol/toluene and then continue heating gently until the next best.p. is reached shall help u tell what is in it. Then u might need to a/b any residual soaps/phenols depending on what you think u have


today i'll try to distill some of it, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't contain any toluene or methanol

draculic acid69 - 27-6-2020 at 04:56

That changes things then. I guess you just need to take a shot in the dark.

DraconicAcid - 27-6-2020 at 09:17

Distillation should give you an idea of what volatile components are in it, as well as getting rid of any surfactants that are present.