Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Is it too much to ask to wear a mask?

 Pages:  1  

Morgan - 15-9-2020 at 08:36

"Trump and his vice president flouted local mask rules, making it a point not to wear masks themselves in public appearances."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-americ...

Metacelsus - 15-9-2020 at 09:18

Yes, this is infuriating for me.

Furthermore the administration has interfered with MMWR, a weekly scientific report by the CDC. I used to trust it, but now I wonder how much is being manipulated.

Cou - 15-9-2020 at 10:52

I have some authority issues, and even I don't freak out about being told to wear a mask.

violet sin - 15-9-2020 at 11:36

In california working in Chico, I wear one to drive to work. Smoke is giving us headaches often. My work is awesome about PPE in general, better with covid. Now we have even more reason to wear them with wildfires.

My boss set his air quality tester at my packing station and it was 120 inside the warehouse. I wear the mask as long as can be, occasionally taking it off for an unhindered breath. But I'm far enough away from everyone I'm not forced to wear them whole shift at all. You can visibly see other drives shake their heads when I'm I traffic, but I like breathing an not having a low grade headache 24-7

A gentle breeze yesterday had ash falling down the rain gutters like water would, lol

macckone - 15-9-2020 at 12:34

The MMWR fiddling is concerning, but the one thing that can't be hidden is excess deaths.
Excess deaths are way over the 'offical' covid-19 death totals.
Some of that is due to people not getting adequate medical care and increased suicides, but I think
it is fair to attribute those to covid as well since those are happening because of covid.

macckone - 15-9-2020 at 12:39

This is month old data and it was probably on the low side at the time due to reporting delays:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deat...

Twospoons - 15-9-2020 at 14:00

There is some evidence emerging that masks are helping to convey immunity. By reducing the initial viral load the body has time to mount a defense before the virus becomes overwhelming, resulting in mild or even asymptomatic infection. We have already seen there is a strong correlation between high viral load and poor outcomes for this virus.

I dont see what the big deal is with wearing a mask - its just another piece of clothing, mandated for public health reasons. Its the same as having to wear pants/skirt or similar, but nobody complains about legally having to cover their genitals in public ...

Chemorg42 - 15-9-2020 at 14:04

This mask controversy is just one more example of a broad and disturbing trend I have noticed in the west in general and America in particular, focusing on the "Rights" that don't really matter.
Both parties have their "Sacred cows", "Rights" they insist they can never give up. For the republicans, these include the "Rights" to be heavily armed and the "Right" not to be vaccinated. For the Democrats, its homosexual marriage and abortion.
I'm sure that for almost everyone here, at least one of these created strong feeling (I am no exception.) However, ultimately, these are, none of these, human rights. Because, as the two parties proclaim their support for these rights, they both decry certain aspects of the rights that truly matter, like freedom of speech and expression, of thought and religion, of assembly and association.
For the GOP, these include the desire for mandatory school prayer, as well as trump's disturbing disregard for the right to protest. For the Dems, these include "Hate speech" laws, as well as the strategy of "Deplatforming" openly advocated by academics and activists alike.
Masks are no different, not wearing a mask is a week and trivial statement in favour of a right whose existence is doubtful, and whose position in the hierarchy of rights which have been trampled by this and many previous administrations is very low indeed.

[Edited on 15/9/2020 by Chemorg42]

Cou - 15-9-2020 at 19:44

Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
I dont see what the big deal is with wearing a mask - its just another piece of clothing, mandated for public health reasons. Its the same as having to wear pants/skirt or similar, but nobody complains about legally having to cover their genitals in public ...


Issues with authority. One reason I hope to start a business is because I hate having a higher up tell me what to do. and even when their decisions will end up hurting both of us, and there is a better way to do things... "what they say, goes".

arkoma - 15-9-2020 at 19:59

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
I have some authority issues, and even I don't freak out about being told to wear a mask.


I have SEVERE authority issues, but also have no probs.

Respect for fellow beings.

unionised - 15-9-2020 at 23:41

I don't think highly of the authorities and am pleasantly surprised that they are now encouraging me to defeat their face recognition systems.

Tsjerk - 16-9-2020 at 00:07

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
I don't think highly of the authorities and am pleasantly surprised that they are now encouraging me to defeat their face recognition systems.


Doesn't it just mean they only need your iris for a positive ID by now? :D

Heptylene - 16-9-2020 at 01:30

From the article:
"Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in its 175-year history. This year we are compelled to do so. We do not do this lightly."

This is just sad. They are throwing away 175 years of consistency!

unionised - 16-9-2020 at 03:51

Quote: Originally posted by Heptylene  
From the article:
"Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in its 175-year history. This year we are compelled to do so. We do not do this lightly."

This is just sad. They are throwing away 175 years of consistency!

They have been pretty consistent. They try to encourage science, so this is consistent with their history.
Only problem is that they are about 4 years too late.

Chemorg42 - 16-9-2020 at 09:48

Quote: Originally posted by Heptylene  
From the article:
"Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in its 175-year history. This year we are compelled to do so. We do not do this lightly."

This is just sad. They are throwing away 175 years of consistency!

Agree completely.
As much as I despise mr. Trump, I just can't indorse a scientific magazine getting into politics.
:(

karlos³ - 16-9-2020 at 10:48

I have a good doctor who wrote me a medical certificate and I don't need to wear any fucking mask ever now.
Screw their stupid muzzle laws.

clearly_not_atara - 16-9-2020 at 11:09

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
I don't think highly of the authorities and am pleasantly surprised that they are now encouraging me to defeat their face recognition systems.

my thoughts exactly

macckone - 16-9-2020 at 12:39

Cou,
A dirty secret.
When you are an employee you usually have one boss.
When you own your own business you have all of your customers as bosses.

DraconicAcid - 16-9-2020 at 12:57

Quote: Originally posted by Heptylene  
From the article:
"Scientific American has never endorsed a presidential candidate in its 175-year history. This year we are compelled to do so. We do not do this lightly."

This is just sad. They are throwing away 175 years of consistency!


I don't think there's anything sad about it. When one candidate is so staunchly anti-science and counter-factual, it would be hypocritical of them to pretend that they are above politics.

And yes, Morgan, for some shitwits, it is far too much to ask to wear a mask. You might be infringing upon their FREEEEDUMB!!!

morganbw - 16-9-2020 at 15:30

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I have a good doctor who wrote me a medical certificate and I don't need to wear any fucking mask ever now.
Screw their stupid muzzle laws.

carl sir, please do not present yourself as a dumbass. I think you just did

Vomaturge - 16-9-2020 at 17:57

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
I don't think highly of the authorities and am pleasantly surprised that they are now encouraging me to defeat their face recognition systems.


Doesn't it just mean they only need your iris for a positive ID by now? :D



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97bMX7KV8d4

stoichiometric_steve - 17-9-2020 at 08:39

Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I have a good doctor who wrote me a medical certificate and I don't need to wear any fucking mask ever now.
Screw their stupid muzzle laws.

carl sir, please do not present yourself as a dumbass. I think you just did


Just wait, next he's gonna deny the Holocaust and claim that Merkel is a reptilian.

Herr Haber - 17-9-2020 at 09:32

Of course !
M marks the Reptilians !

Merkel, Melania, Michael Jackson, Mark Zuckerberg, Mike Pence, Manuel Noriega. Oh wait I'm mixing first and last names now.
I hope no one notices it before I come up with some bs to explain it.


Back to the original topic, I think most people here realize even toilet paper thin protection can be better than no protection at all. I dont know how long you guys think about the safety side of everything you do in the lab but for me it can be a good part while I chose a path, reagents etc.
So why not wear a mask ? I also notice the irony of defeating those new face recognition system our leaders think so highly of :)

stoichiometric_steve - 17-9-2020 at 10:32

— Allegedly — face recognition has advanced beyond being stumped by masks. Gait recognition appears to be the new hot shit.

This is why Segways were BANNED by the NWO/Reptilians!!!1!1!

arkoma - 17-9-2020 at 14:06

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I have a good doctor who wrote me a medical certificate and I don't need to wear any fucking mask ever now.
Screw their stupid muzzle laws.

carl sir, please do not present yourself as a dumbass. I think you just did


Just wait, next he's gonna deny the Holocaust and claim that Merkel is a reptilian.


This can easily get out of hand.......

karlos³ - 17-9-2020 at 17:45

As far as I've read, the mandatory mask wearing in china was very good training regarding the improvement of the accuracy of facial recognition software for people wearing masks.
So I'm not sure if that is still actual to this date.
I mean, they had plenty of opportunities to improve their ability to recognise people with mask on, I doubt that their accuracy is still as bad as when that all started.

And, my doctor(a good one, not a quack) wouldn't have written a certificate if he wouldn't be of the opinion that the disease poses no greater risk than the flu.
Our government here has up to eight weeks before masks became mandatory again and again repeated that using masks is useless, or even more dangerous than not wearing them, and then suddenly its the opposite?
So why take their recommendations serious?
I rather listen to a doctor who knows what he is talking about.
Other countries did fine completely without that either(like sweden), and in many places they have stopped requiring their use in the meantime, all without the situation worsening.
Thats why it doesn't appear to me like wearing them makes any significant difference to the spread of the disease.

I mean its not like I run around and refuse a mask and then go on to argue loudly and demand to see the manager, or what, when buying groceries and an employee speaks to me about the lack of a mask.
No, I just comply calmly and pull that piece of paper out and it is all fine.
And in the meantime they know about that where I usually buy supplies, just occasionally another customer acts up and makes a scene about it.
But I play by the rules too, to be excepted with a medicinal certificate is simply according to those rules, so I don't see the issue or why it should be stupid.
Is it that bad?
I would wear a mask otherwise too, of course.
What I don't understand is why not more people make use of this option.

B(a)P - 17-9-2020 at 18:20

The Lancet released a pretty convincing paper on the effectiveness of wearing masks in reducing transmission.
The paper was prepared to inform practices in health care, but some of the data used was collected from non-health care settings, so is relevant to wearing masks in public settings.
The Lancet

B(a)P - 17-9-2020 at 18:23

Not from the Lancet, but also pretty convincing.


Screen-Shot-2020-05-01-at-4.34.20-PM-e1588365423770.png - 265kB

OldNubbins - 17-9-2020 at 19:04

Entertaining and to-the-point

https://youtu.be/x6cTDGqcUpA

mayko - 17-9-2020 at 19:46

"American problems demand American solutions!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6BlJlrL-k

Twospoons - 17-9-2020 at 20:29

Oh mate! That made my day that did!

DraconicAcid - 18-9-2020 at 07:27

I can't understand why more people don't get a medical exemption from using headlights.

[file]83301[/file]

headlights.jpg - 55kB

Tsjerk - 18-9-2020 at 09:22

In the Netherlands nobody wears a mask, only in public transport it is mandatory, and then only in the transportation vehicles, not even at stops or in stations.

On the streets, in shops, in supermarkets, only rarely I see masks.

At the moment infections are skyrocketing, but the people infected are mostly students. The new study year started and youngsters are partying all around. Many infections in bars.

The number of people hospitalized at the moment still is only 380, of who around 60 in IC. On 17 million people not too bad I guess. In March and April those numbers where a lot higher, while the number of infections were a lot lower. Of course there were less tests done back then, but I think the difference is mostly the age of the people being infected.

1.5 meter distance and no big events seems to do the trick.

karlos³ - 18-9-2020 at 14:21

Finally someone with a realistic sight on the whole thing!
Next door, in my country, the death rate this year was actually lower than last year, regarding flu/corona.

Comparing not wearing a potentially may or may not helpful mask with driving without lights does not even remotely make sense.
And every study about the benefits of mask can't be taken serious if you see how people wear them in public and behave with them on, so that is why I'm saying they aren't doing much.
Most people wear them under the nose, I've seen people pull them down to answer the telephone, even saw a man in the supermarket who almost ripped it down to sneeze wholeheartedly into both hands.
Even the french president pulls his mask down in an interview to cough in his hands!
Or politicians, again and again, no social distancing, even push themselves to 8 into a small elevator(nobody with a mask), and those people want to be taken serious?
So who is expecting the general population to use them like they should be used? If not even our rulers are able to?
And that is why I don't participate in that circus, and that is why my doctor wrote me such a certificate.
And why I wonder why not more people are doing this.
It doesn't matter anyways when the majority acts like this, this isn't far fetched, just logical in my opinion.

So that is what I meant with the comparison with the flu, as that seems to be deadlier and nowhere was such a hysteria with the mask mandatory ever, not since the spanish flu epidemic, and this is what I was talking about.
The same risiko groups are dying of the flu every year, but people just shrug and go on with everything just as normal, but when a slightly less dangerous virus got hyped by the media, everyone stirs crazy?
And this is why I refuse to be part of the mandatory mask circus, I mean next door in NL it does work too, so why should the virus be a different kind of beast a few hundred km's away?

And most just ridicule me about my opinion with memes, instead of arguing factual.
I get that impression that the english speaking countries are fearmongering their population, to an unreasonable extent.
In oz the cops choked a woman because she wore no mask.
Where is this reasonable and ok for people?
They all overreact because of the deliberately overhyped media reports.
There is even a lot of strong evidence, no actually proof, that the statistics are blown up artificially as they don't differ between dying ON corona and dying WITH corona, all count as the first case, even violent deaths and so on.
I mean that is known already for a while, not widely but it can be found, many cases of such manipulation even, in many countries.

I mean, its just a piece of cloth, and you can use everything, even a scarf is alright? Although not a living snake, as a man in UK found out :D
But what protection against aerosol offers a scarf, or a neckerchief or such actually?
Almost nothing against anything that is smaller than dust.
But people sigh in relief when somebody covers his half face with an useless device? Thats what the fearmongering of the media did to them.
The real risiko groups aren't even, just as usual, in public, they are in retirement homes, hospitals or at home, now even more than usual.

This is just crazy and makes really not much sense, and I don't want to participate in it.
But please don't throw me into the same niche as the "muh freedoms" people, its not like I don't have any good reasoning for why I think like this about the situation.
Thank you, that would be nice :)


Oh, and this:
Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Just wait, next he's gonna deny the Holocaust and claim that Merkel is a reptilian.

Really, fuck you steve.

Tsjerk - 19-9-2020 at 02:14

Our government always said there would be no obligation to wear masks because even if it would help, it would also cause a sense of "false security". I don't know if this is true or not, but the people who are getting infected now would get infected anyway even with masks I think.

In case of mandatory masks, apparently if you are in a bar and are having a drink, you don't have to wear the mask while drinking. Well, in my student drinking days, I made sure I would have a drink on hand anytime and if not I would be at the bar ordering one. Another place people are being infected is inside student houses, where even with a mandatory mask policy no one would be wearing masks.

If I see someone wearing a mask now, I keep some extra distance from them. Maybe they are in a risk group and don't want to get ill, maybe they just got back from a COVID test and still need some groceries, or maybe they are feeling sick but don't want to get tested as a positive test would mean quarantine for them and their friends and family... who knows?

stoichiometric_steve - 19-9-2020 at 05:31

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
In the Netherlands nobody wears a mask...

At the moment infections are skyrocketing,


Gee, i wonder why?

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
I don't know if this is true or not, but the people who are getting infected now would get infected anyway even with masks I think.


So basically surgeon doctors are required to wear masks even though they're ineffective at minimizing risks for infection during surgery due to droplets containing bacteria etc.?

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

Next door, in my country, the death rate this year was actually lower than last year, regarding flu/corona.


There is your proof that masks and social distancing obviously work, even if there are countless shitwits trying to undermine those common sense measures every step of the way bEcAuSe MuZzLe LaWs bAd!!!1!

Yes, many are just too dumb to wear masks correctly, but even then the rest who aren't helped prevent the worst. Imagine how this could all have long been under control if it wasn't for those who are just too entitled and ignorant to give up a little bit of their comfortable lives for a few months.

This is why that virus will never be under control and there is no going back to normal anymore. It's going to cost a lot more lives still and frankly, that's what mankind needs most. That kind of catharsis was long overdue.

[Edited on 19-9-2020 by stoichiometric_steve]

DraconicAcid - 19-9-2020 at 07:04

In Canada, the death rate from COVID is 7%. That's not "just a flu".

Tsjerk - 19-9-2020 at 08:13

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
In the Netherlands nobody wears a mask...

At the moment infections are skyrocketing,


Gee, i wonder why?



I knew this one was coming.

These are the graphs of infections and hospitalizations since February:


[file]83313[/file]
Number of infections (note: only since June everyone can be tested).

[file]83315[/file]
Number of hospitalizations

No one, from the beginning, wore a mask.

Source for the graphs: rivm.nl


Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
I don't know if this is true or not, but the people who are getting infected now would get infected anyway even with masks I think.

So basically surgeon doctors are required to wear masks even though they're ineffective at minimizing risks for infection during surgery due to droplets containing bacteria etc.?


Come on, that is the worst argument ever. Surgeons wear surgical masks and know how to use them.
Also I'm not saying the people being infected would be infected if they would wear a mask all the time. I just say these people wouldn't wear the mask at the moment they are infected if wearing one would be obligatory.


Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

Next door, in my country, the death rate this year was actually lower than last year, regarding flu/corona.


There is your proof that masks and social distancing obviously work


That is what I said, 1,5 meters and no big events do the trick. But the Dutch numbers do prove you don't need masks in the equation.

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Imagine how this could all have long been under control if it wasn't for those who are just too entitled and ignorant to give up a little bit of their comfortable lives for a few months.



Look at the hospitalization graph above, in the Netherlands it is pretty much under control.

[Edited on 19-9-2020 by Tsjerk]

Besmettingen.PNG - 23kBopnamen.PNG - 17kB

woelen - 19-9-2020 at 10:01

I believe that these masks are totally useless. I never used one and never will use one. You cannot compare these masks with masks, used by surgeons and other professionals in the medical world.

As long as we have to use masks in public transport I will not use public transport. I do most things on bike, so no big deal for me. Using P&R facilities around big cities now is no go for me, but I avoided the big cities of NL anyways last year.

I do, however, take the 1.5 meter distance and avoidance of busy places very seriously. This afternoon I went downtown, but it was so crowded (we have great weather now and many people go out shopping or just visiting the centre of the city), that I decided to go home again. I go out biking at least once a day, sometimes twice a day, but I do that in rural areas do that I do not have to go through crowds of youngsters. Normally I also visit cities like Amsterdam, Utrecht, The Hague or Maastricht once or twice per year, but this year we did not go to any main city.

[Edited on 19-9-20 by woelen]

karlos³ - 19-9-2020 at 12:07

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
bEcAuSe MuZzLe LaWs bAd!!!1!

You really believe that this will lead to normality anytime?
If so, I am a bit disappointed in your intellect.
And apparently you haven't read the wording in the infektionsschutzgesetz, please do, I encourage you!

Also, I made a meme for you :)

spongebob muzzle.jpg - 80kB

AvBaeyer - 19-9-2020 at 14:37

I generally try to stay apart from the types of discussions happening here. However, there was an editorial piece in the NY Times a while back that everyone involved in this discussion should read and think about. The man being written about is not some marginal crank. He raises some very contemplative points no matter which side of the "mask argument" you are on. Do take the time to read, and reread,this piece. It is worth the effort.

AvB

Attachment: Giorgio Agamben, the Philosopher Trying to Explain the Coronavirus .pdf (791kB)
This file has been downloaded 33 times


Morgan - 19-9-2020 at 16:32

Quote: Originally posted by AvBaeyer  
I generally try to stay apart from the types of discussions happening here. However, there was an editorial piece in the NY Times a while back that everyone involved in this discussion should read and think about. The man being written about is not some marginal crank. He raises some very contemplative points no matter which side of the "mask argument" you are on. Do take the time to read, and reread,this piece. It is worth the effort.

AvB


Via Wiki
Agamben, in an article published by Il Manifesto on 26 February 2020, wrote that the COVID-19 pandemic was an "invention": "In order to make sense of the frantic, irrational, and absolutely unwarranted emergency measures adopted for a supposed epidemic of coronavirus, we must begin from the declaration of the Italian National Research Council (NRC), according to which 'there is no SARS-CoV2 epidemic in Italy.' and 'the infection, according to the epidemiological data available as of today and based on tens of thousands of cases, causes light/moderate symptoms (a variant of flu) in 80-90% of cases. In 10-15%, there is a chance of pneumonia, but which also has a benign outcome in the large majority of cases. We estimate that only 4% of patients require intensive therapy.'"[50][51][52]

COVID-19 pandemic Wiki
The disease mainly spreads between people when they are in close proximity. It spreads very easily and sustainably, primarily via contaminated droplets produced during breathing, coughing, sneezing, talking and singing.[7][8] Many larger droplets rapidly fall to the ground, however some can be suspended in air as aerosols, especially in indoor spaces.[8]

Passage via Verso
So, here we are, galled by an elderly and misguided sage, a man born in 1942 whose stringent theoretical dispositions have clouded his judgement. On this small amount of evidence, Agamben is a coronavirus truther. His reliance on philosophical abstractions, just as the material world deteriorates around him, is his intellectual ruin. That he is personally more at risk from his wrongheaded assumptions adds an extra level of pathos and concern.

The following day, Jean-Luc Nancy wrote a rebuttal in another Italian journal, Antinomie.[iii] Not only does Nancy state the obvious medical knowns about COVID-19 to contradict Agamben’s analysis, he also draws on damning personal experience. About thirty years ago, Agamben had been one of the few people to advise Nancy to avoid having a heart transplant. Nancy politely reminds us (and him) that if he had acted on this advice he would almost certainly be dead, which counts as something less, presumably, than mere biological survival.
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4636-states-of-emergency-me...

Please, go back to your corners guys

arkoma - 19-9-2020 at 21:21

TL;DR




Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  


Oh, and this:
Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Just wait, next he's gonna deny the Holocaust and claim that Merkel is a reptilian.

Really, fuck you steve.


Guys, check this out. I AM A SELFISH BASTARD and it grieves me that two of our best contributors may quit speaking to each other.

You both come on strong--not a judgement, an observation. I am prone too it too, as you know if you've been here these last six years. I have to exercise an ENORMOUS amount of restraint in these threads myself. Please, for an old drunk redneck if no one else, would y'all go back to your corners. We just went through a firefight next door.......

Thank you for your consideration,.

Arkoma

edit corrected this " last two years" to "last six years"

[Edited on 9-20-2020 by arkoma]

sodium_stearate - 20-9-2020 at 09:20

The whole mask thing is completely bogus.
It does nothing. The only function wearing a mask
actually does, is that it keeps people from confronting
the wearer with their insanity.

I have had some luck with the following technique : (such as when walking past the mask nazi lady at the door to the local WalMart super center).

I walk past wearing no mask. Then as I am grabbing my cart
to do my shopping, I hear her droning "Sir, you MUST wear
a mask!"...

So I smile and walk over to her and tell her this:

"I have a medical condition which precludes the wearing
of a face covering".

Then she tells me to stay at least 6 feet away from everyone.

Then I say that 12 feet is probably much better.

Then I go in, do all of my shopping, and nobody says
shit about it.:cool:

DraconicAcid - 20-9-2020 at 09:26

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
"I have a medical condition which precludes the wearing of a face covering".

"I'm sorry sir, but smug stupidity does not qualify as a medical condition."

medical condition

sodium_stearate - 20-9-2020 at 14:23

When a person states that they have a medical
condition which precludes the wearing of a face covering,
that is the end of the conversation.

The person cannot be questioned any farther, cannot
be asked for any paperwork, cannot be asked what the condition
is.....nothing.....nadda.

End of story. :cool: :D

Twospoons - 20-9-2020 at 15:50

If your breathing is so compromised that you cannot wear a properly adjusted mask, then you should stay home, as covid will probably kill you.
Alternately, if its a mental condition, then you should stay home too - we don't want crazy wandering the streets.

Morgan - 20-9-2020 at 17:37

Whitehouse official Admiral Brett Giroir wants you to wear a mask."Biology is independent of politics"
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/20/giroir-corona...

[Edited on 21-9-2020 by Morgan]

medical condition

sodium_stearate - 21-9-2020 at 07:52

My medical condition is that I simply do not
like breathing my own warm moist air inside
of a mask. That irritates me.

I opt not to do it. Very simple.

The words to use to get out of doing it are:

"I have a medical condition which precludes the wearing
of a face covering"

End of story!

DraconicAcid - 21-9-2020 at 11:40

So being a giant toddler, waving your rattle and screaming "I don't wike it!!!" is a medical condition now? And that entitles you do avoid the most basic precautions to avoid spreading a disease that's killed 950 000 people world-wide?

You people are beyond help and beyond hope.

stoichiometric_steve - 21-9-2020 at 12:36

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
So being a giant toddler, waving your rattle and screaming "I don't wike it!!!" is a medical condition now?


That's a great summary of basically all the anti-mask comments in this thread.
It truly baffles me how people with a great understanding of chemistry just cannot wrap their heads around the simple, yet highly effective physical protection that basically any kind of fabric (given sufficient layer thickness) will provide against spreading droplets.

It's a respiratory disease after all, isn't it? So if masks aren't necessary or effective, what is? Following that logic, fucking someone carrying chlamydia without protection is safe as well, right?

As a health professional, i had an unbreakable will to protect and further the health of the general public, up until it became evident that utter idiocy has infected a vast amount of people, sadly beyond all hope of any recovery. All I'm hoping for now is that they all get killed by whatever fake pandemic they're protesting against. Better sooner than later, too!

arkoma - 21-9-2020 at 12:50

Everyone has had their chance to express themselves. I vote for a thread lock.


*edit* don't see this going anywhere. I expressed my opinion early and stayed out since. Strife and division is all I see coming out of this thread.

[Edited on 9-21-2020 by arkoma]

value

sodium_stearate - 21-9-2020 at 14:25

Trust me. If I saw *any* value whatsoever
in being forced to breathe my own stale air
inside of a mask, I'd gladly wear it.

But the fact is that I realize that it does nothing else
except put on a show of compliance.

That kind of theater needs to be left at the playhouse
where people pay to see fictional drama.

Meanwhile, I shall go about my normal business, normally.

I do not expect hardly anyone here to grasp the concept.

Bmoore55 - 21-9-2020 at 18:26

Well this thread has been quite illuminating, perhaps we can all take a big step back and think for a second. Why are we at eachothers throats here? Sure people on either side of the argument have staunch beliefs, but should we resort to name calling? Isn't this a science forum? Perhaps these arguments have some merit on either side of the discussion! Rather than screaming at each other, maybe we could be a bit constructive. Would it be too much to ask to try and turn this thread into a catalogue of data that could be discussed, politely, to determine certain aspects of a masks efficacy? Or could we, as scientifically minded folks, maybe review some data like the infection rates and death counts together to see who among us is actually receiving quality information and how to filter out good vs bad data. Or maybe discuss ways that we interpret the data to make sense of it to avoid fear mongering or histeria. Is it just me or is that what we should be doing? If I wanted to see people scream at each other about who has the more perfect opinion then I could always hop on twitter for a minute to feel sad.

DraconicAcid - 21-9-2020 at 19:10

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Trust me. If I saw *any* value whatsoever in being forced to breathe my own stale air
inside of a mask, I'd gladly wear it.


Your lung capacity is surely greater than the amount of air held by the mask, so surely it's not all air that you've just exhaled.

Even the simplest of cloth masks will filter out particles of mucus and saliva expelled when you cough, sneeze, speak enthusiastically (or in Dutch), etc. These are the particles that carry viruses around, which you should NOT be exposing other people to.

Whining that you don't like it is like whining that urinals splash urine back at you, so you'd much rather piss in the open air of a public street, and anyone who doesn't like it should just stop being a sheep.

stoichiometric_steve - 22-9-2020 at 02:02

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  

Your lung capacity is surely greater than the amount of air held by the mask, so surely it's not all air that you've just exhaled.


You again with your stupid simple explanations and relatable facts. CAN'T YOU SEE IT'S ALL A HUGE CONSPIRACY?


nzlostpass - 22-9-2020 at 03:56

To those who think it is a conspiracy or fake or just as bad as a flu...how do you explain almost a million people dead from it? Can you show me what year recently that a million people died from a simple cold or flu?
I believe there is a chance it is manmade or deliberately put out into the public but it sure as hell is a thing.

We here in NZ had a heap of elderly in just one rest home die from it. We have never had that many oldies die from a flu/cold in just one rest home before.

As for masks, its not that bad wearing one and if theres a chance it helps then its not that big of a deal. We have only had a handful of cases here but we still wear masks in certain situations just in case. Its just a matter of not being selfish for the greater good in my opinion.

DraconicAcid - 22-9-2020 at 08:16

Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  
To those who think it is a conspiracy or fake or just as bad as a flu...how do you explain almost a million people dead from it? Can you show me what year recently that a million people died from a simple cold or flu?


I've had people assure me that every death gets officially blamed on COVID, regardless of what the person died from. So the nearly a million people is just regular death.

arkoma - 22-9-2020 at 08:45

from bmoore
Quote:
If I wanted to see people scream at each other about who has the more perfect opinion then I could always hop on twitter for a minute to feel sad.


Agree whole heartedly

WGTR - 22-9-2020 at 09:36

In my county there are two active cases. Two...in a county of about 20,000 people. There have been around 100 total cases this year. Hardly anyone here wears a mask, even in the stores. What we do instead is keep our distance from people that we don't know. We have groups of friends that we hang out with that are like quasi-family. It's an unspoken rule that if anyone has close contact with someone that they don't normally see, then they spend some time isolated from their regular group of friends/family. Given that this thing has been going on for a while now people have learned to adjust in this way, at least where I live.

If we see people wearing masks we give them some extra space because either they may be sick, or (more often than not) you can see fear in their eyes and we're just trying to help them feel more comfortable.

Masks are really meant to be used once and thrown away in health care settings. Otherwise where do you store it when you take it off? In your pocket? On the table? Hanging around your neck? And you never actually touch the inside of the mask do you? There are too many opportunities to contaminate the inside of the mask. I see people adjusting the things in public with their (dirty) hands all the time because they're slipping down or otherwise going out of wack. If the outside of the mask is considered contaminated, then it would make sense that the rest of your body and clothing is contaminated to one degree or another, including your face. You don't want to be sliding the mask around, and you probably want your face to be pretty clean before you put one on.

If the mask is working like it's supposed to then the level of breathing effort is significant. I have to wear one in the city when I go to work. I have to loosen it after every flight of stairs just to catch my breath, and I'm a runner. It makes sense if you realize that in order to breath in you're creating a vacuum. Any restriction slows down respiration speed. Each breath simply takes longer. At least it does for me, since I have mild asthma anyway. I do start panicking a little bit until I can lift off the mask and take a deep breath.

I find it difficult to communicate in one. I can only see eyes, not facial expressions. And then I sound like I'm talking with a pillow wrapped around my face.

Yeah, wearing a mask is a big problem for me. The possibility of wearing one for another year or two or three is not tenable. At some point early next year I'll just quit wearing one. But then I suspect that most other people around here will be in the same frame of mind too.

I'm looking at the excess death numbers in my country and it looks like there was a big spike early in the year, then there was a smaller spike later in the year, and now it's going back down quickly. I suspect that most people who had a bad reaction to this virus were either very susceptible to this genetically or were near the end of their lives already. We'll see next year, but I would not be surprised if excess mortality numbers came back down to normal soon or even go negative for a while.

Herr Haber - 22-9-2020 at 13:40

Dunno about you but I was a bit annoyed when I saw the obscene margins.

9.90 for 10 in a pharmacy
0.28 by 5000 from my lab supplier.

clearly_not_atara - 22-9-2020 at 15:04

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Trust me. If I saw *any* value whatsoever
in being forced to breathe my own stale air
inside of a mask, I'd gladly wear it.

It's pretty easy to understand why masks work.

First, particles in the air electrostatically adhere to surfaces. The charge-to-mass ratio is larger for smaller particles, making them more sticky. Airborne particles are charged by the triboelectric effect, particularly when a particle is expelled from a living organism with a membrane potential on its cells.

Second, particles in the air undergo constant Brownian motion, oscillating at an instantaneous velocity much faster than anyone can exhale. That means that, while not 1, the probability of a particle colliding with a surface is much larger than if you imagine sand falling through a grating, as some people apparently do. It's not like that -- microscopic droplets constantly wobble back and forth. And of course the smaller the particle, the more irregular its path will be.

Viruses are transmitted by two kinds of particles: droplets and free virions. Droplets are made of water and adhere to surfaces easily; they tend to be on a length scale comparable to the gaps in tight fabric. Virions are much smaller than the gaps in fabric, and at their size have a very high charge-to-mass ratio. While a virion certainly can pass through fabric without sticking, the fraction of virions that do is not that large. This has been verified by actually measuring it:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisT...

Therefore, the concentration of droplets and virions in exhaled air is reduced significantly by passing that air through a mask, or even near one, since as we all know the seals aren't perfect.

Now, when a virus encounters living tissue, it has a generally small probability of actually causing infection. It may infect a cell which releases interferon and becomes apoptotic, ending the virus life cycle; it may encounter a macrophage, which destroys it; it may simply be destroyed by chance encounters with transition metal ions and free radicals; or, in some cases, it may successfully infect a cell, reproduce, and release more viruses. These preliminary defenses are grouped together under the term "primary immunity".

In other words, the probability of becoming infected after inhaling one particle of SARS-CoV-2 is some number p for 0 < p < 1. Since viruses infecting cells which are far apart usually do not interact with each other, the probability of being infected after being exposed to N viruses is P(N) = 1 - (1-p)^N.

It is easy to see that dP/dN > 0 for all N > 1. Therefore, being exposed to more viruses increases the chance of infection. Since masks reduce the number of viruses propelled into ambient air by an infected person, they also reduce the number of viruses an uninfected individual near that person will encounter, ceteris paribus. It follows that masks reduce the probability of disease transmission.

It is a mathematical and biological fact that masks reduce the probability of transmitting SARS-CoV-2. Churlish contradiction is wilful ignorance.

stoichiometric_steve - 22-9-2020 at 23:43

Questioning the effectiveness of masks is like questioning the suitability of a boot against getting wet feet. Stupidity at its highest level.

I'm kinda happy we got to this point, makes it easier to decide whom to exclude from one's life.

B(a)P - 23-9-2020 at 01:30

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Dunno about you but I was a bit annoyed when I saw the obscene margins.

9.90 for 10 in a pharmacy
0.28 by 5000 from my lab supplier.


We have always used P2 masks routinely for work.
In Jan 2020 we could get them for $0.50AU ea
In April - May 2020 we couldn't get them
Since June they have been around $7 ea

sodium_stearate - 23-9-2020 at 22:23

A mask is nothing but a costume which signifies
compliance.

wg48temp9 - 24-9-2020 at 00:56

I thinks this thread has been informative at least to me if not to anyone else.

I am still amazed by these types dichotomies though not surprised anymore.

I think the evidence for the benefits of wearing a mask is overwhelming and its difficult for me to understand why everyone else does not agree but then most/many people in the world believe in God, ghosts homeopathy and some people expanding space, none of which I believe in.

I shop once a week late evening so there are very few other shoppers. I particularly keep my distance from people not wearing a mask as their cavalier attitudes suggest to me they are more likely to be infected. They should be required to wear a bleeper so I can hears them coming LOL

I should add that I am a vulnerable (to the virus) person so my self interest in my own survival may have biased my views. But be warned if I catch the virus from someone not wearing a mask and in the very unlikely (even more unlikely than life on Venus) event there is an after life I will come back and haunt them LOL

Masks reduce the probability of transmitting SARS-CoV-2

PS: my sentences ending with "LOL" are jokes.

stoichiometric_steve - 24-9-2020 at 01:33

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
A mask is nothing but a costume which signifies
compliance.


Of course you don't want to smell your own breath with all that shit coming out of your mouth. Maybe start brushing your teeth more regularly?

sodium_stearate - 24-9-2020 at 05:00

Nice. See, it's funny how when I get absolutely to the
real truth of the matter, guys like S.S. come back
with nothing of substance.

Yep. Go ahead then. Y'all dress up and wear your little
costumes of compliance if it makes you happy.

Corrosive Joeseph - 24-9-2020 at 11:05

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
when I get absolutely to the real truth of the matter


This is ridiculous, there is no truth in what you write, only delusion.


I live on my own, I don't see many people, and those I do know, they in turn, do not mingle with many folk either. It is quite an 'anti' social circle, and how we ever became friends, I will never know.

I can assure you, nobody hates society more than me, but even when I go in the store I do wear a mask and make sure to get a good ol' splash of that free alcohol hand sanitizer they got left at the door.... I mean, what, how long will you be at the shops getting your groceries in any given week.... An hour, maybe..... Tops.....?

Surgeons wear masks all day every day.... You think these trained, medical professional are uninformed, stupid or are going to die young.....?
You think they do this just for a laugh.....? I certainly don't.

Even though I don't give two fucks about the strangers who pass by me in the aisles of the mall, and I would only love to go on a shooting rampage with an AR-15 because these miserable, pathetic sheep deserve nothing less than to have their tiny brains sprayed all over the tins of beans.....
EVEN I WEAR A MASK..... Why, because I certainly don't want to bring any pathogens home to meet Granny, even if they do have tea and biscuits.

I don't give a rat's ass about my own well being, and nor that of anybody else out there, but it is only irresponsible to behave as you describe.

Embrace your inner mask, have fun with it, how long is this going to last anyway, not forever that's for sure.... Every time I go into a store I wish I had a gun, and I get a great kick out of driving around in the car (wearing mask, hat, sunglasses, the whole nine yards), because, in other times, I would be dragged out of it and hand cuffed on the ground!


You need to lighten up, before you believe that Coronavirus was caused by 5G which was invented by Bill Gates, so he could unveil the cure he has already got, that is secretly masquerading as a vacinne, when in fact he is will be injecting the whole human race with microchips so he can surveil and control us.



/CJ

markgollum - 24-9-2020 at 11:34

For everyone: Educating oneself on COVID 19:

There is so much conjecture and speculation running rampant in nearly all of the conversations I have watched and participated in since I first heard about COVID last year when it was only in China.

So, wouldn’t it be great if we could listen so someone who is a real expert talking about it either without speculation and/or making a distinction between speculation and what is known?

Well, there is a brilliant practicing physician that founded MedCram.com and has been regularly posting excellent lectures geared to physicians and medical students on all kinds of topics for years. And he has a lecture series that he has been producing as information and publications have come out. He has also been providing care for COVID patients on a daily basis.

For my purposes I consider him the foremost authority on the subject. And if you watch his videos in chronological order you can see how the thinking and treatment has evolved with time.

Highly recommended

Here is a YouTube link to his most recent lecture
But don’t watch it. Go to his channel and pick out the the lectures you are interested in instead

https://youtu.be/2wJdB5tTKeg

stoichiometric_steve - 24-9-2020 at 11:45

Quote: Originally posted by markgollum  
For everyone: Educating oneself on COVID 19:


That's where your logic fails already. Do you think those covidiots here wouldn't know where to look if they really wanted to get educated? They don't, they're overwhelmed by the brutal realization that they have no control whatsoever over the threat that Covid is. So in the psychotic state of mind that this brings about, they resort to making up shit like the 5G conspiracy and whatnot.
Facts and experts don't matter anymore.

LOOK AT ME! I AM THE EXPERT NOW!

markgollum - 24-9-2020 at 13:01

@ stoichiometric_steve

I provided that link because I really think everyone who wants to understand medical stuff including COVID should know about it.

Being an amateur chemist this would be analogous to someone introducing me to orgsyn for the first time maybe.

My father who I love believes all kinds of nonsense: that there may be a civilization of people living within the hollow earth for example, and that they might have their own sun for light too.

And it’s really disheartening and depressing that this sort of thing is something otherwise seemingly “normal and intelligent” people can defend, argue, and humiliate themselves for. My dad is a good man, he has done a lot for me personally and for the rest of the family too. I choose to show love to him and even though it’s hard I make a big effort to avoid calling him and idiot and that is very hard.
But as a teenager I did say to him a few times “shut up Dad, you are embarrassing yourself” it never did any good. Nothing has done much good. And yes, sometimes there can be serious real world consequences. Recently he was visiting an uneducated but smart old relative who has been doing a lot to protect himself from getting COVID, (and for him getting is would be certain death, he already has 2 heart pacemakers, and cardiovascular disease). And my dad went on a tirade about COVID not being that bad, against Bill Gates, etc etc. And well, if my dad psychologically undermines the old mans efforts to stay alive by not getting COVID, then in a sense, my dad will have contributed to the old mans death and that would be a tragedy. My dad doesn’t really do anything to protect himself and he has some higher risk co-morbidity I also have roommates that don’t protect themselves so that is the Achilles heel for the entire family who is otherwise doing things to reduce everyone’s risk.

Twospoons - 24-9-2020 at 18:03

Conspiracy nuts are immune to facts, reason and logic.

B(a)P - 25-9-2020 at 03:09

I question if it is useful to keep this thread going. Many of the arguments have been made at cross purposes. The conversation is certainly not heading in a productive direction. On one side there is a lot of scientific proof to say masks when used correctly provide a level of protection. On the other side of things people falling over each other at the local department store while talking on the phone with their masks around their necks obviously have zero protection. Surely we all agree that masks correctly fitted work? Let's not keep arguing about how the general population might conduct themselves and work towards a real solution or shut this down.

Real Solution:

sodium_stearate - 25-9-2020 at 08:28

Do what Sweden did. In other words, nothing.

Just simply allow the new virus to freely run its course.

Some will get sick, some even will die.

But the vast majority might only get a mild fever
and maybe a cough for a few days.

Global human society does not get all worked up over
anything else that causes sickness and death nearly as
much as they've gotten themselves worked into
a virtual froth over this covid sham.

If health is suddenly so important, then why not
ban smoking and cigarettes? Why not ban driving autos
because that kills a few all the time.

Hey guys, life is a big bad place with all sorts of risks.
Get over it. Covid is just another in a very long series
of viruses which have attacked organisms on this
planet for millions of years.

All of a sudden, the whole damn planet full of gullible
people decides to completely over-react to the latest
virus to come along.

It's really alarming how easily brainwashed the masses
are about this entire debacle.

[Edited on 25-9-2020 by sodium_stearate]

Tsjerk - 25-9-2020 at 08:58

In Sweden they never got anywhere near group-immunity... Look at the USA, there they are getting somewhere close.... maybe, but it is not "some even will die", they are going towards 0.1% of the population.

njl - 25-9-2020 at 09:09

Smoking cigarettes and driving don't directly put any other unwilling person in danger if done correctly. Unlike people who think they're invincible spewing shit everywhere (on the street and online).

stoichiometric_steve - 25-9-2020 at 12:19

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
they are going towards 0.1% of the population.


BuT iTS jUsT a FlU

Herr Haber - 25-9-2020 at 15:02

Compare Sweden to ANY of it's neighbours and explain to me what kind of "success" that is. They're doing far worse.
Besides, look at the density of population there, add their discipline in the equation and imagine what would have happened in cities likes New York, London or any other with people living on top of one another.

arkoma - 26-9-2020 at 03:22

Still throwing food at each other I see. Bet this thread looks GREAT to visitors. ScienceMADNESS indeed.

Corrosive Joeseph - 26-9-2020 at 04:23

Send it to whimsy..... Or just lock it up.



/CJ

The Original Question

sodium_stearate - 26-9-2020 at 06:41

Getting back to the original question asked, which is
also the title of this thread:

"Is it too much to ask to wear a mask?"

The shortest true answer is Yes.



[Edited on 27-9-2020 by sodium_stearate]

arkoma - 26-9-2020 at 06:52

arkoma just did a 10,000 unit shot of meth* in his penis and all this idiocy went away.


^^^ just want to keep the post quality up to snuff in this thread.

*METHanol, not what you think........

*edit* *edit* amazes me the heights of ridiculousness (mostly) rational people delude themselves with (It's all a HOAX!). See my opinion on this at beginning of thread.

*edit* Original post of mine this thread:

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
[rquote=644618&tid=156164&autho
*edit* r=Cou]I have some authority issues, and even I don't freak out about being told to wear a mask.[/rquote]

I have SEVERE authority issues, but also have no probs.

Respect for fellow beings.


*edit* HOAX was typed with my tongue FIRMLY planted in my cheek. Sorry T****p dudes, I believe the CDC and WHO, not the Re******ans

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by arkoma]

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by arkoma]

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by arkoma]

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by arkoma]

Twospoons - 26-9-2020 at 13:14

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Getting back to the original question asked, which is
also the title of this thread:

"Is it too much to ask to wear a mask?"

The shortest answer is Yes.


Wrong. the shortest answer is No. Only two letters, not three.

sodium_stearate - 26-9-2020 at 16:28

Thanks for pointing out that error, Twospoons.

My oversight as been corrected. The post has now
been edited to specify the shortest TRUE answer.

Not just the shortest answer.

My mistake. :D

Twospoons - 27-9-2020 at 01:41

Your post was merely an assertion. Mine was an assertion backed up with mathematics.

Corrosive Joeseph - 27-9-2020 at 01:49

Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
assertion


.... a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/assertion



/CJ

Chemorg42 - 27-9-2020 at 09:37

This thread is truly descending to new lows of ignorance and petty bickering.
"Shortest" answer? Seriously!?

arkoma - 27-9-2020 at 10:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSh7CDkKwTI

Herr Haber - 27-9-2020 at 11:50

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSh7CDkKwTI


Meh, someone should make a(nother) cover for Cannibal Corpse.

Flask of the brominated ! (After Tube of the resinated it'd be fair!)

Or how about Morbid Angel ? We will chlorinaaaaaate !

Morgan - 2-10-2020 at 04:26

At the last presidential debate everyone at the debate wore masks except for the Trump family. Someone came around and offered masks but the family declined them.

arkoma - 2-10-2020 at 10:08

See where that got them...........

Morgan - 11-10-2020 at 10:44

"It's literally a dream come true." Also the part about John Wayne was insightful.

Bill Burr
https://youtu.be/O1xgXJ5_Q34

As an aside I drove by an Applebee's restaurant today and the parking lot was jam packed. Not much social distancing inside I'm guessing.

Following Scientific American magazine the journal Nature is taking a stand.
"People packed in by the thousands, many dressed in red, white and blue and carrying signs reading “Four more years” and “Make America Great Again”. They came out during a global pandemic to make a statement, and that’s precisely why they assembled shoulder-to-shoulder without masks in a windowless warehouse, creating an ideal environment for the coronavirus to spread."
"US President Donald Trump’s rally in Henderson, Nevada, on 13 September contravened state health rules, which limit public gatherings to 50 people and require proper social distancing. Trump knew it, and later flaunted the fact that the state authorities failed to stop him. Since the beginning of the pandemic, the president has behaved the same way and refused to follow basic health guidelines at the White House, which is now at the centre of an ongoing outbreak. The president spent 3 days in a hospital after testing positive for COVID-19, and was released on 5 October."
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-americ...

Oh and The New England Journal of Medicine ...
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/1...


[Edited on 11-10-2020 by Morgan]

XeonTheMGPony - 25-10-2020 at 14:00

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  

Your lung capacity is surely greater than the amount of air held by the mask, so surely it's not all air that you've just exhaled.


You again with your stupid simple explanations and relatable facts. CAN'T YOU SEE IT'S ALL A HUGE CONSPIRACY?



Well more a load of crap, sure it is a nasty bug, a rather weak one at that, sure a bit worse then the flue, but it is just a power grab at this point, if you are scared YOU stay at home. they toss scary numbers at you but when you look at the larger picture it is not scary in the least.

We haven't lead pathetic meaningless lives, So if it is our time it is our time, I will enjoy life thank you, you may continue to cower in your room alone wearing a body condom if it makes you feel safe.

But much like the TSA, it is all security theater.

Most people don't know how to wear them, they hack away in the mask, then play with it, they then go to grope every thing in the store.

Not sorry but I am not playing along with meaningless gestures.

[Edited on 25-10-2020 by XeonTheMGPony]

[Edited on 25-10-2020 by XeonTheMGPony]

XeonTheMGPony - 25-10-2020 at 14:05

Quote: Originally posted by njl  
Smoking cigarettes and driving don't directly put any other unwilling person in danger if done correctly. Unlike people who think they're invincible spewing shit everywhere (on the street and online).


Life is risk, can't accept that stay at home under the sheets in the fetal position till your time has come.

As fore spewing shit every where, well to avoid that just stay out of California.

XeonTheMGPony - 25-10-2020 at 14:08

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Do what Sweden did. In other words, nothing.

Just simply allow the new virus to freely run its course.

Some will get sick, some even will die.

But the vast majority might only get a mild fever
and maybe a cough for a few days.

Global human society does not get all worked up over
anything else that causes sickness and death nearly as
much as they've gotten themselves worked into
a virtual froth over this covid sham.

If health is suddenly so important, then why not
ban smoking and cigarettes? Why not ban driving autos
because that kills a few all the time.

Hey guys, life is a big bad place with all sorts of risks.
Get over it. Covid is just another in a very long series
of viruses which have attacked organisms on this
planet for millions of years.

All of a sudden, the whole damn planet full of gullible
people decides to completely over-react to the latest
virus to come along.

It's really alarming how easily brainwashed the masses
are about this entire debacle.

[Edited on 25-9-2020 by sodium_stearate]


I think it comes from people living vapid empty lives thus being terrified of every little risk in the world.

A dozen things can end your life in an instant, and even more slowly and painfully 24/7.

I do not let those make me cower under the bed wearing a body condom either.

arkoma - 25-10-2020 at 14:47

Quote:
As fore spewing shit every where, well to avoid that just stay out of California.


Piss off.

*edit* mirroring you're rather rude tone xeon. We oughta be better than that here. And I take offense to you insulting my home State.

[Edited on 10-25-2020 by arkoma]

Morgan - 25-10-2020 at 15:51

This trend might be the greatest fear of any anti-masker. It's an interesting historical overview.
"I would not be surprised if the masking culture changes dramatically, and people of most parts of the world continue to mask their faces ever after."
https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/masks-may-become-perman...

Coronavirus could leave U.S. with a lasting imprint: Masks as normal part of life
"We may be moving gently at this point toward the Asian culture where it’s more a usual thing to wear masks to prevent the transmission of viruses,” said Dr. William Schaffner, professor of preventive medicine and infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University."
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/coronavi...

Texium (zts16) - 25-10-2020 at 20:52

I am highly disappointed in all of you who are anti-mask here. Not that I'm the least bit surprised by sodium_stearate or Xeon having this belief. But woelen, seriously? Just plain shameful.

Such drivel has no place on this board.

j_sum1 - 25-10-2020 at 21:25

I agree, Tex. Time to shut down this thread. It was getting feisty and going nowhere.

That said, the efficacy of masks depends entirely on what they are being used for, what the quality of the mask is, how the masks are used, what particular pathogen is involved, whether one is expecting protection for the wearer or others in the area, population density, air circulation and a multitude of other factors. Two truths emerge.
  • They are not anywhere near as effective as we would like.
  • Many jurisdictions have imposed mask laws on a blanket basis without a medically supportable basis for such laws.
    The situation is nuanced which why there is such disparity of opinion amongst such intelligent people as populate this board.

    (Near where I live, the only reason for wearing a mask is so that you don't get a fine equal to two weeks of the average wage. It has nothing to do with mitigating any health risk.
    In a city of 5mil where 1200 people per day are losing their jobs due to unreasonable restrictions, there is a reason for people to be angry – about masks and a whole lot of other matters.)

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