Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Practical experience with beryllium and its compounds

Admagistr - 17-11-2021 at 08:31

Does anyone have practical experience working with metallic beryllium or its compounds? Some of the work here at the forum was done some times ago by Plante. I'm sure that this information will be important for members who don't yet experience it because of its toxicity and don't yet have the necessary background, or the equipment to handle the dangerous properties of this very interesting element. Among the good qualities of this element is that it is the father of great gems such as emeralds, alexandrites and many more;-) Pictures and videos are welcome!

Admagistr - 17-11-2021 at 15:12

I found these videos, the first with a link to the German Forum: Illumina-chemie.de
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYhGJO-XFRo&t=13s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAwgpN0fk3s

vano - 22-11-2021 at 02:48

Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal).

Admagistr - 22-11-2021 at 16:09

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal).


That's great to hear:). It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO yourself;)? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18? Regards-Adam

vano - 22-11-2021 at 20:34

Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal).


That's great to hear:). It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO yourself;)? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18? Regards-Adam


No my BeO is very old reagent, i have three jars. In the photo, there are two jars in my hand. Before I had oxide I used metal. But now I have a lot of oxide so I use it all the time. I am going to reduce BeO with hydrogen during the holidays, I hope I will not be lazy.

Admagistr - 23-11-2021 at 08:56

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Of course it's very toxic. I'm sure If you know what you are doing and do it right it is not dangerous. I have worked with beryllium metal and it compounds, my major source is low cancinated BeO. I also made violurate (i hope, it's strange metal).


That's great to hear:). It's a strange and miraculous metal! You made this BeO yourself;)? If so, from Be metal, or from the mineral beryl - Al2Be3Si6O18? Regards-Adam


No my BeO is very old reagent, i have three jars. In the photo, there are two jars in my hand. Before I had oxide I used metal. But now I have a lot of oxide so I use it all the time. I am going to reduce BeO with hydrogen during the holidays, I hope I will not be lazy.


Be has a very strong bond to oxygen, are you going to reduce BeO by hydrogen, to metallic Be? How are you going to do that? Do you have a specific plan? It seems like a superhuman task... I'd try to synthesize tiny emeralds, I'm sending an article written by Japanese expert Oishi. I transferred it to Word, unfortunately without the photos. What do you say for it?


Attachment: Emerald.doc (67kB)
This file has been downloaded 174 times

Admagistr - 23-11-2021 at 09:15

Sorry for the raw article, I'll do some graphic editing and convert it to PDF later!


[Edited on 23-11-2021 by Admagistr]

vano - 23-11-2021 at 09:48

I will make this experiment with quartz tube and Kipp's apparatus. this is the reduction of copper oxide to metalic copper, you can reduce BeO in this way. To tell you truth i don't know what temperature it needs, but i will find out.

I have heard about the mineral before, you can get it artificially but as far as I know the main value of gemstones is time, like a diamond made from hydrocarbons. If you just want it for you, I like the idea. Unfortunately I have no practical experience in making gemstones. Hopefully someone knowledgeable will show up.

Admagistr - 23-11-2021 at 14:04

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
I will make this experiment with quartz tube and Kipp's apparatus. this is the reduction of copper oxide to metalic copper, you can reduce BeO in this way. To tell you truth i don't know what temperature it needs, but i will find out.

I have heard about the mineral before, you can get it artificially but as far as I know the main value of gemstones is time, like a diamond made from hydrocarbons. If you just want it for you, I like the idea. Unfortunately I have no practical experience in making gemstones. Hopefully someone knowledgeable will show up.



You're going to need a very high temperature, the BeO is melting at 2507 C! Quartz glass won't do, I'd probably choose graphite, although it will also form a beryllium carbide... I've got an important thing to tell you, and it's that BeO volatile around with water vapor at 1,000 C!!!! and up and cause chronic berylliosis....
I'd like to make those emeralds for pleasure and enthusiasm someday, not for money. But I don't have the necessary laboratory background yet, everything else would be...

vano - 23-11-2021 at 15:15

I don't need to melt oxide and similar things. It just need hot oxide and hydrogen. For example in this way you can reduce tungsten trioxide at 800-900 °C, i think Be needs less temperature.

Admagistr - 23-11-2021 at 15:53

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
I don't need to melt oxide and similar things. It just need hot oxide and hydrogen. For example in this way you can reduce tungsten trioxide at 800-900 °C, i think Be needs less temperature.


But the BeO is a special and difficult case...If it can be reduced with hydrogen at all, which I'm not sure...,it will be extremely difficult and will definitely need to be melted down, the bond of Beryllium to oxygen is extremely strong! It's not the same case as WO3 and similar oxides...Could WOELEN, or someone equally experienced, tell us what they think?! Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure of success...

Admagistr - 23-11-2021 at 16:01

I'm sending the promised article in PDF. I started a new topic about it.


Attachment: Emerald.pdf (252kB)
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vano - 23-11-2021 at 22:22

I think it will be easy. My oxide is quite reactive, i can dissolve it in any acid, bacause it's cancinated at low temperature. i think I won't melt it down, i just save powder.

woelen - 24-11-2021 at 01:53

Vano, reactivity comes in different 'flavors'. Your oxide is reactive in the sense that it can be hydrolysed easily and made to dissolve in aqueous solutions as Be(2+) or beryllate ion, depending on pH (acidic resp. alkaline). Beryllium, on the other hand, is not reactive at all in the sense that it can easily be reduced to the metal. I am quite sure that reduction to the metal wiull be very hard and that you need quite extreme conditions. I myself also have some BeO, but I never even considered trying to reduce this to beryllium metal. I have read, that its redox properties (in terms of ease or difficulty to change from the ion to the metal or vice versa) are comparable to those of aluminium. Aluminium also is not easy to obtain as free metal from its Al(3+)-compounds.

I would be VERY careful with heating BeO to high temperatures. If it volatilizes and you breathe some of the smoke/fumes, then that can be really detrimental to your health. I would first experiment with Al2O3 and see if you can safely convert some of that to Al-metal. In that way you can test the engineering part of your setup and check how well contained your materials are, the robustness of your heating equipment, etc. A little accident with red-hot Al2O3 can be nasty already, but if done in a suitable area, it is manageable. Escape of material does not need to be a big issue. If the same happens with BeO, then the consequences can be really dire.

Admagistr - 24-11-2021 at 06:26

Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Vano, reactivity comes in different 'flavors'. Your oxide is reactive in the sense that it can be hydrolysed easily and made to dissolve in aqueous solutions as Be(2+) or beryllate ion, depending on pH (acidic resp. alkaline). Beryllium, on the other hand, is not reactive at all in the sense that it can easily be reduced to the metal. I am quite sure that reduction to the metal wiull be very hard and that you need quite extreme conditions. I myself also have some BeO, but I never even considered trying to reduce this to beryllium metal. I have read, that its redox properties (in terms of ease or difficulty to change from the ion to the metal or vice versa) are comparable to those of aluminium. Aluminium also is not easy to obtain as free metal from its Al(3+)-compounds.

I would be VERY careful with heating BeO to high temperatures. If it volatilizes and you breathe some of the smoke/fumes, then that can be really detrimental to your health. I would first experiment with Al2O3 and see if you can safely convert some of that to Al-metal. In that way you can test the engineering part of your setup and check how well contained your materials are, the robustness of your heating equipment, etc. A little accident with red-hot Al2O3 can be nasty already, but if done in a suitable area, it is manageable. Escape of material does not need to be a big issue. If the same happens with BeO, then the consequences can be really dire.


Thanks Woelen!

Admagistr - 24-11-2021 at 07:18

BeO becomes more and more inert as the temperature rises!
Does anyone have an English version of the Gmelin Handbook compendium about Beryllium? I'd love to read it, but I can't get hold of it...

vano - 24-11-2021 at 09:17

i agree. I will try. Then I will tell you the answer.

vano - 24-11-2021 at 09:20

Also my beryllium reactions are stopped because I have no idea what compounds to make. If anyone has a good idea I will listen.

Admagistr - 24-11-2021 at 14:16

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Also my beryllium reactions are stopped because I have no idea what compounds to make. If anyone has a good idea I will listen.


Vano, you don't have to go far, beryllium oxide is extremely interesting, of course not in the form of a powder...When it's melted and crystallized it's a great gem with the hardness of 9 Mohs, it's as hard as ruby and sapphire and it's beautiful! In this form, it's nontoxic! If you shine a UV light on it, it glows blue, I have it too, and I've tried it in personally. Besides, it's an extremely good conductor of heat and an excellent insulator of electricity. It's just a matter of getting it into a compact form, preferably crystalline, and you don't have to deal with the toxicity then and you can investigate its extraordinary properties!

vano - 25-11-2021 at 02:21

Interesting. But it's little bit hard, because it has very high melting point, i need hydrogen torch. Did you make your own crystal? BeO was useful material in old devices, somewhere i have BeO ceramics.

[Edited on 25-11-2021 by vano]

Admagistr - 25-11-2021 at 08:50

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Interesting. But it's little bit hard, because it has very high melting point, i need hydrogen torch. Did you make your own crystal? BeO was useful material in old devices, somewhere i have BeO ceramics.

[Edited on 25-11-2021 by vano]


I have a very interesting idea, I hope. Synthesis of colored, crystalline beryllium chromate. If ammonium chromate is added in an appropriate proportion, it produces BeCrO4.2(NH4)2CrO4, this compound degrades with heat and is likely to sparking in the process, similar to pure ammonium chromate. But mainly the thermal decomposition produces Cr2BeO4, which is very similar to alexandrite. Alexandrite Al2BeO4, doped with Cr3+ changes colour in sunlight is emerald green and on artificial it is beautifully purple!
I haven't done Crystalline BeO yet because I don't have my own lab yet. I can send you an article on how to do it, if you're interested. Be sure not to melt the BeO with a hydrogen flame. It'll work, but the BeO will be running around with water vapor, there will be heavy casualties, but it would be extremely dangerous and you could even die!
I have constructed the equation: BeCrO4.2(NH4)2CrO4 = 2Cr2BeO4+8H2O+2N2.

[Edited on 25-11-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 25-11-2021 by Admagistr]

vano - 25-11-2021 at 23:02

It's interesting. Months ago i tried synthesis of beryllium chromate, but it hydrolysed in Solution, the best making way is from BeO and CrO3. Yes i want the article please.

Admagistr - 26-11-2021 at 15:56

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
It's interesting. Months ago i tried synthesis of beryllium chromate, but it hydrolysed in Solution, the best making way is from BeO and CrO3. Yes i want the article please.


I've created a new theme here on the forum about forgotten synthese rubies in an electric arc furnace by the genius Henry Moissan. I'm sure it's also applicable to beryllium oxide, only the current needed will be slightly higher. BeO and Al2O3 behave very similarly chemically. I'm also sending you the promised article, but the first, aforementioned option is much, much simpler and doesn't require a platinum crucible.... All it takes is a crucible of graphite, which is cheap and affordable. Don't add Cr2O3 to BeO, it wouldn't make sense, I think it could get a beautiful blue color from CuO. It needs testing... But please be very,very careful not to inhale any furnace fumes and not contaminate the environment you live in. The solution might be to rinse everything around with water and BeO residue, then get the BeO back by water evaporating. I'm sure you work outside...
And how did you go about synthesizing the beryllium chromate? Do you have any pictures? CrO3 and BeO in an aqueous environment will certainly work smoothly. I once made magnesium chromate out of CrO3 and MgO in water....


Attachment: BROMELIT-BeO.pdf (2MB)
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[Edited on 26-11-2021 by Admagistr]

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[Edited on 26-11-2021 by Admagistr]

Admagistr - 26-11-2021 at 16:04

Note: The correct English filename is BROMELLITE. I couldn't correct it in the uploaded file.

vano - 27-11-2021 at 01:05

Thanks i will read.

Before I made it, I had previously read that it was hydrolyzed in water. I still tried to just mix beryllium nitrate and potassium chromate solutions. To tell you the truth, the yellow chromate precipitate, after that I threw it away, I did not study how much it was hydrolysed. But there also was white hydroxide

[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]

[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]

Admagistr - 27-11-2021 at 19:34

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Thanks i will read.

Before I made it, I had previously read that it was hydrolyzed in water. I still tried to just mix beryllium nitrate and potassium chromate solutions. To tell you the truth, the yellow chromate precipitate, after that I threw it away, I did not study how much it was hydrolysed. But there also was white hydroxide

[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]

[Edited on 27-11-2021 by vano]


What about trying it from K2Cr2O7 and Be(NO3)2!? That could work a lot better.... Even (NH4)2Cr2O7 could provide interesting results... ;)!

vano - 28-11-2021 at 22:33

i will try.

Admagistr - 29-11-2021 at 17:06

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
i will try.


Please send some pictures or video afterwards;)

vano - 30-11-2021 at 00:14

Yes, of course.

Admagistr - 30-11-2021 at 17:19

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Yes, of course.


I look forward to it!

vano - 1-12-2021 at 02:43

Nothing much happend. The best way is solid synthesis method.

received_1066136820896660.jpeg - 179kB

Admagistr - 1-12-2021 at 15:59

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Nothing much happend. The best way is solid synthesis method.



Thank You, Vano!
It's not as simple as I thought, but you worked well;)! Your results, and especially your experience with hydrolysis, have confirmed what is written in the scientific chemistry literature. I'm sending a snippet of a theme I found in the Sciencemadness Library. Do you have some another plan? The sure way is CrO3+BeCO3, with a minimum amount of water...Do you have CrO3?
Normal beryllium chromate, BeCrO4.H2O, was obtained by neutralizing a cone. soln. of chromic acid with beryllium carbonate, and evaporating the liquid. The reddish yellow,monoclinic plates are hydrolyzed by water. B. Bleyer and A. Moormann could not obtain either of the two salts described by B. Glassmann. The precipitation of beryllium sulphate by potassium chromate yields impure, amorphous products of varying composition, whilst the precipitate from the chloride has the composition 15BeO.CrO3.12H2O, independently of the proportions of the reacting substances. Beryllium hydroxide and chromic acid yield only resinous masses,but the clear soln. contains beryllium and chromium in the ratio 1:1. N. A. Orloff obtained 9BeO.BeCrO4.16H2O and 20H2O, and 14BeO.BeCrO4.31H2O, from a soln. of beryllium sulphate and potassium chromate ; 12BeO.BeCrO4.16H2O from a soln. of beryllium hydroxide in chromic acid and potassium chromate; and 5BeO.BeCrO4.14H2O, as a precipitate by adding alcohol to a soln. of beryllium hydroxide in chromic acid. Hence, beryllium chromate is gradually hydrolyzed by water without forming any definite basic salt. H. C. Creuzberg prepared beryllium tridecoxychromate, BeCrO4.13BeO.23H2O, by precipitation.

[Edited on 2-12-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 2-12-2021 by Admagistr]

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vano - 1-12-2021 at 23:06

Thanks. Unfortunately i don't have CrO3, i used all of them, but i will try to find it. I like beryllium carbonate idea. Also I don't have any new ideas about beryllium chemistry, but you can tell me any experiment what you want and i will do it, no prob. If i will make chromate with way you mentioned, then i let you know anyway.

Admagistr - 2-12-2021 at 11:47

Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Thanks. Unfortunately i don't have CrO3, i used all of them, but i will try to find it. I like beryllium carbonate idea. Also I don't have any new ideas about beryllium chemistry, but you can tell me any experiment what you want and i will do it, no prob. If i will make chromate with way you mentioned, then i let you know anyway.


That's perfect! I have what I believe is a very attractive idea. To create this beryllium aluminate with a small addition of Cr3+ ion as well as a completely different and interesting method. The method is called "Combustion synthésis", and it was discovered by accident, years ago in India. I've never read anywhere its use for synthesizing Al2BeO4:Cr3+, but I believe 100% that it will work!! Beryllium has very similar chemical behaviour to aluminium and when ruby powder is made this way, there's no reason why alexandrite powder can't be made this way!!! Something like "Pharaoh's snake" comes out of the method, and you can leave it as it is, or grind it with water to powder and dry it. It'll be green in sunlight, like emerald, and purple in artificial light at night, like amethyst, changing its colors! You can then put it in a test tube with a stopper and show it to your visitors. Plus, the method has a very spectacular flow, the mixture will heat itself up to more than 1000 C and the hot zone will spread in it, maybe releasing some rusty NO2 fumes. But most of all, the reaction will be over in a few minutes, so you can get the color-change gem in a few minutes!! Isn't that cool!? Tomorrow I'll send you the exact procedure, construct an equation, calculate the necessary quantities. All you're going to need is water, aluminium nitrate, beryllium nitrate, and some chromium nitrate, urea, and possibly, to improve the results and some glycine...

Admagistr - 4-12-2021 at 16:10

Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  
Quote: Originally posted by vano  
Thanks. Unfortunately i don't have CrO3, i used all of them, but i will try to find it. I like beryllium carbonate idea. Also I don't have any new ideas about beryllium chemistry, but you can tell me any experiment what you want and i will do it, no prob. If i will make chromate with way you mentioned, then i let you know anyway.


That's perfect! I have what I believe is a very attractive idea. To create this beryllium aluminate with a small addition of Cr3+ ion as well as a completely different and interesting method. The method is called "Combustion synthésis", and it was discovered by accident, years ago in India. I've never read anywhere its use for synthesizing Al2BeO4:Cr3+, but I believe 100% that it will work!! Beryllium has very similar chemical behaviour to aluminium and when ruby powder is made this way, there's no reason why alexandrite powder can't be made this way!!! Something like "Pharaoh's snake" comes out of the method, and you can leave it as it is, or grind it with water to powder and dry it. It'll be green in sunlight, like emerald, and purple in artificial light at night, like amethyst, changing its colors! You can then put it in a test tube with a stopper and show it to your visitors. Plus, the method has a very spectacular flow, the mixture will heat itself up to more than 1000 C and the hot zone will spread in it, maybe releasing some rusty NO2 fumes. But most of all, the reaction will be over in a few minutes, so you can get the color-change gem in a few minutes!! Isn't that cool!? Tomorrow I'll send you the exact procedure, construct an equation, calculate the necessary quantities. All you're going to need is water, aluminium nitrate, beryllium nitrate, and some chromium nitrate, urea, and possibly, to improve the results and some glycine...


It's right here:

6Al(NO3)3.9H2O+3Be(NO3)2.4H2O+20CO(NH2)2=32N2+20CO2+106H2O+3Al2BeO4.

If we want to get 2.574 g of Al198Cr002Be100O400, then we have to take:

15 g of Aluminium nitrate, nonahydrate.
4.142 g of Beryllium nitrate, tetrahydrate.
0.1616 g of Chromium nitrate, nonahydrate.
8,086 g of Urea.

Then dissolve the weighed substances in a minimum quantity of water in a beaker, stirring constantly with a magnetic stirrer using very gentle and low heat to dissolve the solids. Then place the beaker with the mixture in a hot charcoal fire, for example, or heat to about 500 C in a preheated oven; I do not know the exact temperature to start this reaction, but it will be about 300 to 500 C. It would be best to start it with only aluminum nitrate , doped with a little of the above mentioned amount of chromium nitrate and with urea to get ruby powder and gain experience with this type of reactions, and then continue with using beryllium nitrate. I recommend this because of the extremely dangerous toxicity level of beryllium compounds!

[Edited on 5-12-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 5-12-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 5-12-2021 by Admagistr]

[Edited on 5-12-2021 by Admagistr]