Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Kid wants to do an experiment

NervousMum - 9-6-2022 at 21:30

My child wants to mix draino, balls of aluminium foil and water in a plastic bottle to make a 'bomb'.
Is there a way to do this safely, and what's the clean up method for the products?

numos - 9-6-2022 at 22:37

The problem with this is that this closer to an actual "bomb" than you might think. A big risk I see (certainly not the only one) is the explosion splashing corrosive solution everywhere.

A safer version is to use dry ice/water in a waterbottle. You'll get a similar explosion but without the nasty chemicals or the dangerous hydrogen buildup.

Triflic Acid - 9-6-2022 at 23:13

This could end very badly or be absolutely fine. It depends on the scale you chose to do this one. I've had completely harmless explosions in glassware that I was holding and been perfectly fine spare some minor burns. But those were on gram scales to produce hydrogen for a reduction reaction when the catalyst accidentally ignited the generator. While not intentional, I wasn't seriously injured, though the bang and flying glass stopper did cause my heart rate to jump :P. But if you are going to use a water bottle, I'd recommend doing it in a field far away from other people. It'll go off with a bang if it's just a pressure explosion, and with a fireball, if there is some source of ignition. So, a wet field where there isn't too much of a risk of a fire. But overall, it's just a bad idea to do something like this. How old is said child as well? Anyone under 12 will likely be scared shitless by this. Also, you should check the legality of such explosives in wherever you live. Honestly, explosives are just a bad introduction to chemistry, especially one on such a large scale and so simple to create. You don't learn anything and get a wrong impression of chemistry.

j_sum1 - 9-6-2022 at 23:39

I doubt that dry ice is a lot safer. One of the risks is that you can get quite high pressure if you use a standard soft drink bottle. You can then get shards of flying plastic moving at high speed.

I do recommend letting the kid experiment though.
Start off with using an open container and relatively small amounts. (I am thinking of a teaspoon of draino and a half inch diameter ball of alfoil with maybe half a cup of water to begin with.)
You then get a sense of how vigorous the reaction is, how hot it gets and how manageable the procedure is. From there you can slowly scale up.
I would not try putting a lid on it. There is no point. You either get a pressurised container and then not really know how to deal with it safely. Or you get an actual exploding bottle with the risks and mess. Instead, try putting a balloon over the end of the bottle and collecting the gas. It is hydrogen and you can get the balloon to float. Do perform this experiment outside.

One other thing. Some "draino" products actually contain small amounts of aluminium in them. When mixed with water the reaction is the same as what your kid is trying to do. When poured down a sink the gas produced helps to dislodge blockages. No additional risk to what you are doing. You just need to be aware of exactly what mixtures you are dealing with. You might find that your experiment behaves differently from what has been described because you have a variant on the starting materials. It might be more or less vigorous than expected.

Here are the risks that you may encounter. If you think you can manage these properly then you can go ahead.
  • Draino is highly caustic. It will cause skin irritation on contact. Prolonged contact (a few minutes) can cause dryness, rash, and even blisters that take a few days to heal. It will feel soapy on the skin. Therefore I recommend gloves. And even more importantly, access to fresh water so that you can wash skin the instant you notice the soapy feeling.
  • High concentrations of draino dissolved in water may be even more hazardous than the solid. Same reaction with skin but it will occur more quickly.
  • Draino either solid or solution will cause rapid damage if splashed into eyes. Safety glasses are a good idea. You only have two eyes and they are close together.
  • The reaction will get quite hot. It may boil the water and cause splashing of hot caustic liquid. It may be enough to soften some plastic containers. This can be managed by starting small and scaling up the reaction slowly. Do not attempt to look down the open neck of a bottle: it could splash up quite rapidly. Keep some distance while the reaction is happening.
  • Do the experiment outside, preferably on concrete so that if (when) spills occur they can be hosed down safely.
  • The gas produced is hydrogen. It is possible to ignite it, but that introduces a new spectrum of considerations. I would tie off a small balloon with string, wear ear protection, and ignite with a match on the end of a broom handle.
  • The gas is likely to have water with it and also splashes from your reaction mixture. If you do collect it in a balloon, exercise caution in handling the balloon. Do not assume it is somehow more benign than the other things that have come in contact with your reaction mix.
  • Realistically, the most difficult risk to manage is pressure build up from a closed bottle. That is why I don't recommend putting a lid on. An unexpected spray from an exploding bottle is not desirable.

  • The product is designed for washing down the drain. Therefore, in cleanup, there are no problems with rinsing with plenty of water and flushing down the drain. Solids can be put in the bin. Just be cautions with the residue that may still be on the surface of your foil. Think of ways of avoiding skin contact.

    You will probably notice the leftover solution is a grey gunky mess. This is from the silicon that is always present in aluminium foil. It is not a problem in itself. Just rinse down the sink.
    I think that is it. Someone else here is likely to add something to my list that I have forgotten.


    Let me emphasise that this is a fun experiment. Your kid will love doing it. The risks are entirely manageable. In fact, learning to deal with these appropriately can be part of the fun. Also, teaching your kid to manage the risks will tame some of the recklessness that often arises and help to direct his thoughts into a more scientific mode, which is both more fascinating and more productive.

    Keep an eye on this discussion for some more useful suggestions. And drop back to let us know how you got on.

    woelen - 10-6-2022 at 01:46

    And NEVER do this experiment in a sealed glass bottle.
    Never do any reaction, which produces gas in good quantities, in a sealed glass bottle.
    Sealed glass adds a lot of additional risk of severe wounding.

    [Edited on 10-6-22 by woelen]

    BromicAcid - 10-6-2022 at 03:15

    Baking soda, vinegar, ziplock bag. All the same lessons with none of the real danger. Use a shot glass to keep one of the components separate so you can get the bag sealed without losing the pressure.

    [Edited on 6/10/2022 by BromicAcid]

    Texium - 10-6-2022 at 08:14

    I wouldn't recommend messing with Draino (sodium hydroxide) without experience, especially when the intention is to make it explode, as it's highly corrosive to skin, and could permanently blind you or your child if it gets into your eyes. The fact that highly flammable hydrogen gas is produced is also of concern.

    When I was a kid (9-10 years old), I would mix either baking soda and vinegar or Alka-Seltzer and water in a plastic tupperware container, and that would give a satisfying enough pop without any danger. Dry ice or baking soda/vinegar only produce carbon dioxide gas and the reactants and byproducts are harmless. Either way, start with something like a tupperware container rather than a sealed soda bottle.

    Tsjerk - 10-6-2022 at 08:33

    Hot concentrated sodium hydroxide is scarring and blinding. Sulfuric acid in the eyes is less of a concern than hydroxide as the acid dehydrates the first layer of cells, making them impermeable. Hydroxide just dissolves beyond recognition.

    j_sum1 - 10-6-2022 at 14:11

    A bit depends on age and maturity of your kid.
    There is quite a bit of difference between an 8 year old and a 14 year old here.
    I'll admit I was thinking more like 14 when I wrote my comment.

    Herr Haber - 10-6-2022 at 15:29

    Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid  
    Baking soda, vinegar, ziplock bag. All the same lessons with none of the real danger. Use a shot glass to keep one of the components separate so you can get the bag sealed without losing the pressure.

    [Edited on 6/10/2022 by BromicAcid]


    Exactly !
    And if the school your kid goes to still uses chalk ask if you can take a few pieces. Preferably colored ones.
    As a kid I used that with vinegar and a marmelade jar with a puncture hole in the cap to errr... repaint the ceiling in my room.

    With a pipette head to concentrate the flow and an electric motor to which any kind of fan blades made of cardboard are attached you can light a small bulb.

    BromicAcid - 10-6-2022 at 16:49

    I spent an afternoon with my daughter messing around with baking soda / vinegar. We were re-charging a fire extinguisher and seeing how much pressure we could manage out the mixture. Lots of fun together, kept my 5 year old entertained for hours.

    DocX - 14-6-2022 at 12:47

    What's wrong with mentos and coke? Kids nowadays ...
    Kids anydays, come to think of it. I think I was 10 when I made black powder the first time. And we had none of that fancy schmancy internet back then.

    j_sum1 - 14-6-2022 at 19:51

    Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  


    And if the school your kid goes to still uses chalk ask if you can take a few pieces. Preferably colored ones.
    As a kid I used that with vinegar and a marmelade jar with a puncture hole in the cap to errr... repaint the ceiling in my room

    A lot of manufactured chalk sticks are more calcium sulfate than calcium carbonate. Good for drawing but not the same for doing experiments.

    Herr Haber - 15-6-2022 at 04:03

    What a disappointment j_sum1 !
    But I've been away from school longer than you :)
    These were the good old days of sulphur pearls in water, melting naphtalene and (less glamorous) boiling pee...

    Triflic Acid - 15-6-2022 at 20:39

    Actually, now that everyone mentions it, someone under 12 could probably do it too. I too was 10 when I first made black-powder DocX, was a bunch of fun putting it into PVC pipes in sand to get a shower of sparks. It really depends on the kid.