Sciencemadness Discussion Board

What reagents would you bring during an apocalyptic scenario?

SuperOxide - 14-8-2022 at 11:45

If you woke up and found yourself in an apocalyptic scenario of unknown cause (powers out everywhere, you're hearing that there's some pandemonium on its way, and you need to leave asap before things get violent). What chemicals from your inventory would you bring with you and why?

Ill start:

  1. Iodine - for it's antiseptic capabilities
  2. Activated Carbon - to filter water
  3. Ether or chloroform - as an anaesthetic for if anyone needed to do some crude medical stuff (stitches, setting broken bones, etc)
  4. Magnesium turnings - Help start fires.
  5. Zirconium - Also to help start fires (as a flint)
  6. Nitrates (ammonium, potassium) - Useful for if I ever need to make boom powder.


P.S. I didn't see any "Off Topic" categories, so I put it in Miscellaneous. Hope this is ok. I know it's not exactly chemistry related, but it's a fun one :-D

[Edited on 14-8-2022 by SuperOxide]

Lion850 - 14-8-2022 at 14:56

Potassium permanganate is recommended as a 'survival' chemical on various sites:
- Water purification
- Fire starting
- Medical use as disinfectant
- Location marking (but probably works best on snow)

Rainwater - 14-8-2022 at 15:55

Owww that is A Good question. To survive, or to live.
alkalis can be made with fire ash. Sulfuric Acid with sulfur and fire. Most other acids from salts and h2so4
Clays are everywhere. Dam back to the stone age save what I can carry. So whats the choice? Ready made reagents or, the basics needed to make reagents. Its all about opportunities and knowledge. No youtube, no more google. No quick research with a few strokes of the hand

My chemistry books

DraconicAcid - 14-8-2022 at 15:57

Probably lots of food-grade ethanol.

SuperOxide - 14-8-2022 at 16:24

Quote: Originally posted by Lion850  
Potassium permanganate is recommended as a 'survival' chemical on various sites:
- Water purification
- Fire starting
- Medical use as disinfectant
- Location marking (but probably works best on snow)

Very true. I've heard that PotPerm is used for water purification but never looked into how it's used to do that. Does one just add it to the water and drink the purple water? lol.

Jenks - 15-8-2022 at 09:14

If chemicals for survival include food and drugs, that would increase the list.

Essential vitamins like ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
Basic medications like caffeine, diphenhydramine, iboprofen, etc.

And then there is the idea that the world could devolve into one without currency, so to barter, anything with high value density would be useful, like bars of gold, etc.

It's hard to anticipate what would be needed because they would depend so much on the specifics of the situation, like whether one can stay in their home or has to become a nomad, whether one is physically safe, whether power, food and/or water are available, etc. Will the disaster be due to war, plague, or civil unrest? When I've tried to think through "prepper" scenarios, I get bogged down with these uncertainties and have to keep it simple. And I haven't done much, as I always seem to be too busy. One scenario would be a nuclear incident and having to deal with fallout, so in that case I would definitely grab my nuclear radiation detector and maybe a few reference samples to make sure it is working. And iodine, of course.

arkoma - 15-8-2022 at 11:53

To start with:

H2SO4
NaOH
KNO3

can do a lot with these three, have plenty of them, and all three a pain in the arse to quickly synthesize/purify.

And of course, EtOH!!

SuperOxide - 15-8-2022 at 12:38

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
To start with:

H2SO4
NaOH
KNO3

can do a lot with these three, have plenty of them, and all three a pain in the arse to quickly synthesize/purify.

And of course, EtOH!!


What would you use the H2SO4 for? I think you're thinking about doing reactions or synthesizing some reagents mid apocalypse, lol. Im not sure how well that would work out.
Quote: Originally posted by Jenks  
And then there is the idea that the world could devolve into one without currency, so to barter, anything with high value density would be useful, like bars of gold, etc.

Yeah, I was thinking more of like.. survival kinda stuff. Think Walking Dead, if you had to be on the road with them, what stuff would you want to bring?


Also... I'll add some to my list:

  1. Iodine - for it's antiseptic capabilities
  2. Activated Carbon - to filter water
  3. Ether or chloroform - as an anaesthetic for if anyone needed to do some crude medical stuff (stitches, setting broken bones, etc)
  4. Magnesium turnings - Help start fires.
  5. Zirconium - Also to help start fires (as a flint)
  6. Nitrates (ammonium, potassium) - Useful for if I ever need to make boom powder.
  7. Salicylic acid - For its antiseptic capabilities.
  8. Red and white phosphorus - I honestly have no idea what this would be useful for, since I only have like 25g of wP and 60g or rP, but I'm bringin em!



[Edited on 15-8-2022 by SuperOxide]

[Edited on 15-8-2022 by SuperOxide]

OneEyedPyro - 15-8-2022 at 14:31

Ethanol times four to put off the anxiety of my certain doom.
Water in case I get thirsty.

zwt2 - 15-8-2022 at 17:58

Medications and micronutrients probably provide the best value for their size; you can carry enough to last years in your pockets.
Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  
I've heard that PotPerm is used for water purification but never looked into how it's used to do that. Does one just add it to the water and drink the purple water? lol.

Yes. In an emergency where you don't have access to anything better (including laundry bleach) and can't just boil the water, purple water is better than waterborne illnesses, although really you should only use enough to turn the water slightly pink, and the pink should fade over time as the permanganate is reduced. I wouldn't rely on it long-term (the risks would include manganese poisoning and oxidative damage to internal organs, the latter leading to increase risk of ulcers, cancer, etc), and other options should be available in an "apocalyptic" scenario, including just leaving small plastic bottles of water out in direct sunlight all day.
Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  

Yeah, I was thinking more of like.. survival kinda stuff. Think Walking Dead, if you had to be on the road with them, what stuff would you want to bring?

That sounds more like a backpacking trip than an apocalypse. If it'll take more than a few weeks for society to recover, then it doesn't matter much what you take with you, because you'll run out of everything eventually. In an "end of the world" scenario, scientific knowledge would be far more valuable than any reagents. At least two likely "apocalyptic" scenarios would effectively destroy the internet (those being nuclear war and solar coronal mass ejection), and books are bulky and fragile. It's better to know how to make ether and chloroform from widely-available substances than to just bring some with you, better to learn a variety of firemaking techniques than to rely on some specialty firestarter that could be lost or stolen, and better to know how to make charcoal and treat water by alternative means than to rely on consumable charcoal filters.

SuperOxide - 15-8-2022 at 18:17

Quote: Originally posted by zwt2  
Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  

Yeah, I was thinking more of like.. survival kinda stuff. Think Walking Dead, if you had to be on the road with them, what stuff would you want to bring?

That sounds more like a backpacking trip than an apocalypse. If it'll take more than a few weeks for society to recover, then it doesn't matter much what you take with you, because you'll run out of everything eventually. In an "end of the world" scenario, scientific knowledge would be far more valuable than any reagents. At least two likely "apocalyptic" scenarios would effectively destroy the internet (those being nuclear war and solar coronal mass ejection), and books are bulky and fragile. It's better to know how to make ether and chloroform from widely-available substances than to just bring some with you, better to learn a variety of firemaking techniques than to rely on some specialty firestarter that could be lost or stolen, and better to know how to make charcoal and treat water by alternative means than to rely on consumable charcoal filters.

Yeah, that's true. But I didn't put too much thought into this topic, lol. I was just watching some old The Walking Dead episodes thinking "Hmm.... if I had to leave with this group, what reagents would I bring with me". Just a fun thought.

Keras - 16-8-2022 at 07:30

Potassium permanganate can be used both as an antiseptic (diluted) and to start a fire.

draculic acid69 - 16-8-2022 at 17:34

To add to the list: Glycerine, bleach, detergents,soaps,trygicerides,butane, isooctane,
salt, acetic acid,

SuperOxide - 16-8-2022 at 19:10

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
To add to the list: Glycerine, bleach, detergents,soaps,trygicerides,butane, isooctane,
salt, acetic acid,


Hey buddy, read the rules! You must say why you're bringing each ;-)

draculic acid69 - 17-8-2022 at 06:45

Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  
Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
To add to the list: Glycerine, bleach, detergents,soaps,trygicerides,butane, isooctane,
salt, acetic acid,


Hey buddy, read the rules! You must say why you're bringing each ;-)


Glycerine for use with the permanganate as a fire starter
Bleach for disinfecting water or other things,(Mn ions causing Parkinson like symptoms is not something I want to experience)
Detergents & soaps to keep things and myself clean (zombie apocalypse is no excuse to neglect basic hygiene)
Trygicerides are a basis of food and cooking (not everything can be skewered and grilled over fire)
Butane and isooctane (gas stove or fuel for a vehicle/generator)
Salt, acetic acid are the basis of canning which is a major survival
technique.

Jenks - 17-8-2022 at 09:03

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  

Trygicerides are a basis of food and cooking (not everything can be skewered and grilled over fire)

Sorry this is getting off topic, but one thing I thought would be great to have in a famine would be a cache of vegetable oil, due to its high energy density. It wouldn't be hard to stockpile a year's worth of calories in one-gallon cans. But it isn't so easy when this is multiplied by the number of family members, or extended family, etc. That is a consideration for all the emergency items - having enough to share.

Would SuperOxide mind if we extended this topic to laboratory equipment? Some of it seems like it would make useful tools.

SuperOxide - 17-8-2022 at 12:33

Quote: Originally posted by Jenks  

Would SuperOxide mind if we extended this topic to laboratory equipment? Some of it seems like it would make useful tools.

I think the main thing I was thinking about was Bug-out bag kinda stuff. But I suppose a little bit of glassware wouldn't hurt.

It would be hard to bring a little bit of glassware without needing more though. I guess maybe a retort would do some good.

draculic acid69 - 18-8-2022 at 04:09

Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  
Quote: Originally posted by Jenks  


It would be hard to bring a little bit of glassware without needing more though. I guess maybe a retort would do some good.


I think a metal distillation setup would be a great asset.

karlos³ - 20-8-2022 at 03:47

I'm bringing reagents to an apocalypic scenario and I choose....
Hmmm....


I bring two 25kg drums of each sodium borohydride and N-bromosuccinmide!
Why? Why not!
Those are literally two of the most useful and very versatile reagents, there is no apocalyptic scenario possible in which we would say "oh no, not borohydride and NBS, we have no idea what we can do with it!" :D

Like, fuel-cell battery for a vehicle with the borohydride(commercial batteries for campers and such contain around 900g's of borohydride, usually the sodium cation, as despite given a higher ratio of cation to BH4 ratio with Li(less than a third of Na's mass), its more costly.
NBS is an oxidizer, besides obviously being a brominating reagent as well... so guess water purification is in its scope too?
Not the preferred thing to use, probably bad aftertaste or something, but hey, with 25kg of it, you are happy being able to drink anything at all without getting sick, no?

Uh, and I wonder if you throw a tiny bit of each together, if it could start a fire?
Haha!
If, then we have another use for them! :D

yobbo II - 20-8-2022 at 05:25


A large tank of hydrocarbon fuel

To stay warm

Yob

SuperOxide - 20-8-2022 at 12:54

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I'm bringing reagents to an apocalypic scenario and I choose....
Hmmm....


I bring two 25kg drums of each sodium borohydride and N-bromosuccinmide!
Why? Why not!
Those are literally two of the most useful and very versatile reagents, there is no apocalyptic scenario possible in which we would say "oh no, not borohydride and NBS, we have no idea what we can do with it!" :D

Like, fuel-cell battery for a vehicle with the borohydride(commercial batteries for campers and such contain around 900g's of borohydride, usually the sodium cation, as despite given a higher ratio of cation to BH4 ratio with Li(less than a third of Na's mass), its more costly.
NBS is an oxidizer, besides obviously being a brominating reagent as well... so guess water purification is in its scope too?
Not the preferred thing to use, probably bad aftertaste or something, but hey, with 25kg of it, you are happy being able to drink anything at all without getting sick, no?

Uh, and I wonder if you throw a tiny bit of each together, if it could start a fire?
Haha!
If, then we have another use for them! :D

Very creative, lol. I have like 100g of sodium borohydride, ill be sure to bring it! No N-bromosuccinimide tho...

[Edited on 20-8-2022 by SuperOxide]

Herr Haber - 23-8-2022 at 09:14

When I offered to make KI individual doses I discovered people would actually be more interested in NaCN in case of apocalypse.
Weird.

SuperOxide - 23-8-2022 at 16:26

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
When I offered to make KI individual doses I discovered people would actually be more interested in NaCN in case of apocalypse.
Weird.

I wonder what NaCN would be useful for? I have like a kg of it, wondering if I should put some in my bug-out bag (kidding).

Keras - 24-8-2022 at 00:42

Don’t forget vitamins. In a novel like ‘The Road’, where every vegetal and animal life has disappeared, and ssurvivors live off tinned food (or cannibalism…), vitamin C would be in short supply, and everyone would die from scurvy sooner or later.

karlos³ - 25-8-2022 at 10:34

Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
Don’t forget vitamins. In a novel like ‘The Road’, where every vegetal and animal life has disappeared, and ssurvivors live off tinned food (or cannibalism…), vitamin C would be in short supply, and everyone would die from scurvy sooner or later.

In such a world, honestly, I would be on team NaCN too, I guess :o

Herr Haber - 26-8-2022 at 10:02

Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide  

I wonder what NaCN would be useful for? I have like a kg of it, wondering if I should put some in my bug-out bag (kidding).


Anyone played Fallout ?
I just imagined looting the grinning skeletons of a family around a campfire only to find a note explaining their suicide because of radiation poisoning.
In that world, I expect Karlos would be making good use of brahmin dung fumes :cool:

That makes me think that I'd go for lysergic acid diethylamide. It's the only reagent I consider you are 100% certain to get a reaction with :D
Can I get a drum too ?!

draculic acid69 - 26-8-2022 at 20:37

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
When I offered to make KI individual doses I discovered people would actually be more interested in NaCN in case of apocalypse.
Weird.


That's fukt up. Says a lot about people was my first thought. 2nd thought was
how extensive and diverse was your research on the matter?

SuperOxide - 27-8-2022 at 12:27

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
When I offered to make KI individual doses I discovered people would actually be more interested in NaCN in case of apocalypse.
Weird.

That's interesting.. I'm assuming they meant they wanted it for suicide, correct? I don't think cyanide poisoning is a very pleasant way to go (You can find videos of people taking it in court after a guilty verdict). Something like inert gas asphyxiation would be more ideal (though not as convenient).

Or maybe they just felt like doing some electroplating or gold extraction during the apocalypse?... lol

Herr Haber - 2-9-2022 at 19:41

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  

That's fukt up. Says a lot about people was my first thought. 2nd thought was
how extensive and diverse was your research on the matter?


Yes, well... research is a very generous word ;)
It's rather the recollection of having similar conversations over the years about the use of KI (how, when). I do have a lot of misanthropes among my friends and many of them have extensive knowledge of caves, quarries, underground shelters etc.
In case of a nuclear power plant accident they will happily take the iodine, party underground for a couple of weeks and then take a peek topside.
But I also heard many simply say they dont like the world as it is and would like it even less if the nukes fell so they'd rather witness the blast in all its glory than see people turn on each other etc. And have NaCN as a backup if the blast and neutron flash arent enough...
Most recent conversation was with a neighbour who is a bit chemophobe. When I tell her what I do some weekends she goes "lalalala I'm not listening". She'd trust me more with a suicide pill than a refill of her hand sanitizer bottle. That I made, and she used ! She trusts me with her cat though...

Nope, dont always understand people...
I'm more in the process of upgrading my bug out bag. I'd like to see a nuclear winter with my own eyes so that means surviving till then.