Sciencemadness Discussion Board

NaBH4 now on DEA Special Surveillance List

German - 8-11-2023 at 19:20

https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/2023-10/2023-10-30/dea-adds...

Unbelievable. Vendors on Alibaba won't even sell it out of China anymore. Only the most widely used reducing agent in all of chemistry. All because one fucking route to fentayl uses it (and my understanding is NaBH4 isn't even the preferred reducing agent). But let's screw the rest of the chemistry world.

draculic acid69 - 8-11-2023 at 20:15

As if nabh4 wasn't already on the watch list and as if most fentanyl isn't synthed in China

Keras - 9-11-2023 at 05:16

I suppose that if you buy 50 g of it you won’t get visited. It probably only matters if you’re buying it by the kilos. (But I might be wrong.)

[Edited on 9-11-2023 by Keras]

Texium - 9-11-2023 at 07:50

Most of “the chemistry world” doesn’t buy sodium borohydride from AliBaba.

clearly_not_atara - 9-11-2023 at 08:19

Honestly I'm just surprised it took this long considering that it's used for everything.

German - 9-11-2023 at 09:28

Quote: Originally posted by Texium  
Most of “the chemistry world” doesn’t buy sodium borohydride from AliBaba.


Neither do I, but in the last couple months all the domestic sources either stopped or now require multiple forms and statements to fill out. Only jumped on Alibaba so I wouldn't have to deal with that bureaucratic bs to only find out to my surprise that I guess the Chinese were told not to supply it to the US anymore either (talk to 3 different suppliers and they all said they can no longer legally supply it). So now your options are very limited domestic sources who will now only ship to a commercial business address with statement of intent forms, biz documents, and all the rest. Basically everyone is Sigma now with regards to NaBH4.

Raid - 15-11-2023 at 10:22

Quote: Originally posted by German  
https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/2023-10/2023-10-30/dea-adds...

Unbelievable. Vendors on Alibaba won't even sell it out of China anymore. Only the most widely used reducing agent in all of chemistry. All because one fucking route to fentayl uses it (and my understanding is NaBH4 isn't even the preferred reducing agent). But let's screw the rest of the chemistry world.



It's not just fentanyl that's being made with NaBH4 it's also used in the synthesis of many other drugs, mostly Methcathinone's and Amphetamines. I can see why the DEA would be surveying this as it's used to make lots of illegal molecules. I just don't understand why they care that much because most of those drugs are made in the EU or China due to the low price of reagents and cutting off the supply of NaBH4 is not going to change much.

6dthjd1 - 18-11-2023 at 01:55

at least they left out lithium aluminum hydride

Mush - 18-11-2023 at 15:53

Biden should have started cleaning up at Purdue Pharma .
US pharma companies are responsible for this crisis in the first place .
They suppose to heal not kill but profit was more important.
Is anyone in jail for this crime?

OldNubbins - 18-11-2023 at 19:33

Quote: Originally posted by Raid  


It's not just fentanyl that's being made with NaBH4 it's also used in the synthesis of many other drugs, mostly Methcathinone's and Amphetamines. I can see why the DEA would be surveying this as it's used to make lots of illegal molecules. I just don't understand why they care that much because most of those drugs are made in the EU or China due to the low price of reagents and cutting off the supply of NaBH4 is not going to change much.


pssst... banning precursors has nothing to do with drugs and everything to do with fear and quick access to warrants. Maybe. Maybe not, just thinking out loud. I'll see myself out.

Raid - 5-12-2023 at 16:15

Quote: Originally posted by OldNubbins  
Quote: Originally posted by Raid  


It's not just fentanyl that's being made with NaBH4 it's also used in the synthesis of many other drugs, mostly Methcathinone's and Amphetamines. I can see why the DEA would be surveying this as it's used to make lots of illegal molecules. I just don't understand why they care that much because most of those drugs are made in the EU or China due to the low price of reagents and cutting off the supply of NaBH4 is not going to change much.


pssst... banning precursors has nothing to do with drugs and everything to do with fear and quick access to warrants. Maybe. Maybe not, just thinking out loud. I'll see myself out.


While your statement maybe be true NaBH4 is used in MANY drug synthesis and guess who knows that? The DEA. They don't care if your using it for legitimate uses or not, they see this precursor and automatically connect it to drug synthesis.
I do agree with your statement that to people without much knowledge this precursor may look like something scary and could cause fear and to them banning it would be a much better idea then letting people buy it freely.
DEA = Fear mongering?

[Edited on 6-12-2023 by Raid]

Loptr - 6-12-2023 at 08:38

What effect does the Special Surveillance List even have on suppliers. It seems to be the lesser of the lists when it comes to reporting.

Raid - 6-12-2023 at 10:38

Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  
What effect does the Special Surveillance List even have on suppliers?


It means they have more restrictions and more restrictions on their products mean fewer people buy the products and if fewer people buy the product It means less money for the company.
In the end, it just comes down to money.

mysteriusbhoice - 6-1-2024 at 17:42

reject borohydride accept poisoned palladium catalyst for selective reductions eg Co-Pd.

not_RickSanchez - 7-1-2024 at 03:18

Long time lurker here, thanks for the information!

This is good to know. I was about to put up a listing on ebay to try to sell some of the surplus I have accumulated. That could have ended badly! Back to the drawing board.

Anyone know of a discreet marketplace or gathering spot that would be possible to facilitate an interaction with interested parties? Looking for amateur chemists, hobby chemists, professional chemists, or anyone who is educated and trained in the handling of said reducing agent and possibly other reagents? Not interested in criminals or criminal organizations, nor anyone intent on illegal activity.


[Edited on 7-1-2024 by not_RickSanchez]

dettoo456 - 7-1-2024 at 10:52

From my understanding, it is not illegal to sell NaBH4, nor is it illegal to possess in the US. It is simply ‘watched’ now which means that you may be tracked by a certain 3-letter agency if you buy it from a large-scale vendor and may be required to sign use declarations to do so. Please correct me if I’m wrong though.

If you’re specifically trying to get rid of NaBH4 though, it’s perfectly legal (idk what the mods would say about it though) but I’d recommend posting about it in a thread not associated with DEA conversation - it might draw the wrong crowd.

Good luck finding that mysterious marketplace you spoke of though, I couldn’t think of anything like that that may exist.

[Edited on 7-1-2024 by dettoo456]

not_RickSanchez - 7-1-2024 at 12:48

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  
From my understanding, it is not illegal to sell NaBH4, nor is it illegal to possess in the US. It is simply ‘watched’ now which means that you may be tracked by a certain 3-letter agency if you buy it from a large-scale vendor and may be required to sign use declarations to do so. Please correct me if I’m wrong though.

If you’re specifically trying to get rid of NaBH4 though, it’s perfectly legal (idk what the mods would say about it though) but I’d recommend posting about it in a thread not associated with DEA conversation - it might draw the wrong crowd.

Good luck finding that mysterious marketplace you spoke of though, I couldn’t think of anything like that that may exist.

[Edited on 7-1-2024 by dettoo456]


Would be wise to avoid associating a point of sale to a thread with an ongoing discussion involving the DEA

I may message one of the mods and ask if thats within the rules here before I make a post.

Thanks for the advice

Dr.Bob - 9-1-2024 at 05:50

I just found out that 1,2-dichloroethane (DCE) is now a controlled reagent as well, they must have added that in the last few years, I have used for it years for reductive aminations, as it gives great yields in some tough ones. So it now also requires DEA paperwork to order....

Texium - 9-1-2024 at 10:45

Where did you hear that? I see no evidence of it being on any of the DEA lists.

Dr.Bob - 10-1-2024 at 06:23

Doh, the email was covering a large order, and they listed two part numbers as issues. The actual DEA listed compound was Toluene, which is on Watch List 2, but apparently some vendors are now requiring special paperwork even for watched chemicals. List 2 covers many common chemicals, but apparently some vendors are much more cautious than others, or can't keep track of previous paperwork. The issue with DCE was that larger amounts have to be shipped ground/freight, which I was not aware of either, making it more expensive to ship. At least via that vendor. Their email was quite confusing, so I apologize for my confusion about it.