Most utility packed chemistry dream kit for $50-$150

I'd like to do a little chemistry experiments on the side, tinker with things, and run small scale experiments.

What would be the ideal combination of items for this price range?


I'm shopping of Amazon, and I'm trying to piece something together

I'm thinking 6mm O.D. flint glass tubing would make the list, because it is workable with an alcohol lamp, and is the right size for inserting in to stoppers. Only problem is, I have it in my mind, that the black rubber stoppers don't seal particularly well to test tubes unless the thumb is kept over them.

How could something like the design in the picture be constructed? It would need to use the white rubber stoppers and appropriately sized test tubes, where can I find them? Also, could a hollow punch, the type used with a hammer, be used to punch out a 6mm hole for the glass tubing?

If I could make one of these devices, that would be a simple still!



Not sure what to do about hot plate stirrer, I've seen the solder pots, and am wondering if they will work with sand, or would that overheat the solder pot?



What other equipment would provide a good general setup with utility, or experiments in mind?


Something like:

1) Scale
2) hotplate
3) thermometer
4) syringe or graduated cylinder
5)?
6)?
7)?





[Edited on 14-6-2025 by Nitrox2]



[Edited on 14-6-2025 by Nitrox2]

Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping?



[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2]

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping? [Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2]

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2   Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping? [Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2] That's a short path designed to run under vacuum and collect several fractions without breaking the vacuum. That's not a beginner setup. And does not need a claisen. OTOH a short path condenser is very convenient even if it is not used as designed. For versatility however, nothing beats a 300mm liebig. If you are distilling anything, add to your list an aquarium pump and some tubing.

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

I'm not entirely clear on which substances will be okay under vacuum distillation (boiling) using a short path or the properly used method of using a short path (evap). I have a feeling, my target substances may decompose under heat, but I think I've heard that they will be okay under vacuum distillation (boiling).

just my point of view

Distillation kit. This seems expensive but only because you need several different items before you can even start distilling. Look for a cheap kit, but do not be tempted to get any weird combination flask/condenser arrangements. These will prove to be false economy because you will need to replace them fairly soon. I will include side-arm flasks in that description. Get a condenser that you can use either for distilling or for reflux. That means something detachable that can be used vertically so the condensate drips back onto the flask, or fitted at 105° so the condensate can be collected.

Finally, do not overlook the so-called little items you will invariably need. Stands, funnels, filter paper, spoons, stirrers, scoops, containers, paper towels, heat mats, test tubes and racks, beakers, thermometers, scales, all those kinds of things.
These add up very quickly. The good news is that most of the time you can pick up something suitable from the supermarket that will last you at least for a while.


Ok, this really is finally.
Watch a bunch of good youtubers (plus chemplayer on bitchute.) You will see what is possible with comparatively little gear, pick up project ideas, and see good practice that you can emulate. There is a thread entitled "chemistry diamonds on youtube" that has dozens of links.

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Nitrox2 - 17-6-2025 at 06:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX14ly_2Qjc&list=OLAK5uy...

[Edited on 6-17-25 by Nitrox2]

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Texium - 17-6-2025 at 09:27

Hello again, Yttrium2

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Nitrox2 - 17-6-2025 at 09:32

I just read that hand operated vacuum pumps (harbor freight) can be used for vacuum distillations when doing distillations with micro sized glassware (14/20 or less).

I had thinking contrary to this

Any further suggestions?



[Edited on 6-17-25 by Nitrox2]

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Cathoderay - 17-6-2025 at 11:51

One thing to know is that there are different levels of vacuum needed for different things.
For filtering you do not need (or want) a high level of vacuum. For vacuum distilling a stronger vacuum is usually used.
A simple thing to use for a limited amount of filtering is an aspirator pump. It is powered by a flow of water (sink). It is reliable because there are no moving parts. There are metal ones and some made of plastic.
https://www.amazon.com/Bel-Art-Aspirator-Polyethylene-Discon...
For set ups out of doors, some people have used battery powered water pumps running the aspirator pump and re-using the water (closed loop).
I see some small AC powered vacuum pumps for sale for only a little more money but I have no experience with them. A more usual vacuum pump (more like those for distilling) cost well over $100.

Most online videos show making a chemical from others (synthesis), another type of chemistry is identifying the make up of a substance (analysis), still another would be chemical demonstrations (education). The type of chemistry you are interested in could effect the volumes of the vessels you would want to use. Synthesis or demonstrations use bigger volumes than analysis typically.
In the videos I mentioned from several sources there are examples of all three of those types of chemistry.
I would stay away from the videos showing the making of explosives or drugs that would not be a good start.



[Edited on 6/17/2025 by Cathoderay]

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Nitrox2 - 17-6-2025 at 13:30

I wrote to Gemini: "what can I practice fractional distillation on, is practice the word, -- I want to use a micro short path apparatus for separating chemical compounds. What could I experiment on? I've heard of cinnamon to get some sort of cinnamon alcohol, or something, -- but wasn't sure if that was the same thing. Also, how could a steam distillation apparatus be used to collect essential oil with multiple fractions that can then be fed into the micro distillation apparatus to separate and purify -- the fractions..."


Gemini wrote:


"Let's break down your questions about fractional distillation and essential oil extraction.

First, regarding your wording, "practice" is perfectly fine. You can "practice fractional distillation" or "experiment with fractional distillation." Both are clear and correct.

Now, let's get into the specifics:

What can you practice fractional distillation on with a micro short path apparatus?
A micro short path distillation apparatus is designed for separating smaller quantities of compounds with relatively close boiling points, especially those that are heat-sensitive or high-boiling. Here are some ideas for what you could experiment on:

Essential Oils: This is a fantastic application. Essential oils are complex mixtures of various terpenes, terpenoids, and other aromatic compounds, all with different boiling points.

Fractionating a pre-existing essential oil: You could take a commercially available essential oil (like lavender, peppermint, or orange) and try to separate it into its main components. This would be a great way to learn the ropes of fractional distillation.
"Cinnamon alcohol" or Cinnamon Essential Oil: You're on the right track! What people sometimes refer to as "cinnamon alcohol" is likely referring to extracting compounds from cinnamon that are soluble in alcohol, or perhaps distilling essential oil from cinnamon, which then might contain cinnamaldehyde and other compounds.
Cinnamon Essential Oil Distillation: You can certainly extract cinnamon essential oil via steam distillation (more on that below). This crude essential oil would then be an excellent candidate for fractional distillation using your micro short path apparatus to separate components like cinnamaldehyde (the primary compound responsible for cinnamon's flavor and aroma), eugenol, etc., which have different boiling points. This would be a perfect multi-step experiment.
Petroleum Ether/Naphtha: These are mixtures of hydrocarbons with different boiling points. You could attempt to separate them into narrower boiling point ranges.

Alcohol Mixtures: If you have a mixture of different alcohols (e.g., ethanol and isopropanol), you could try to separate them. This is a classic lab exercise.

Used Solvents: If you have solvents that are slightly contaminated with other less volatile compounds, you could attempt to purify them through distillation. (Always be mindful of safety and dispose of waste properly).

Important Considerations for Micro Short Path Distillation:

Boiling Point Differences: The greater the difference in boiling points between the components, the easier the separation will be. Fractional distillation is for components with closer boiling points than simple distillation.
Vacuum: For many essential oil components or higher-boiling compounds, you'll need to operate under vacuum to lower their boiling points and prevent thermal degradation. Your micro short path apparatus is designed for this.
Heating Control: Precise temperature control is crucial for good separation.
Small Scale: Be mindful of the small volumes you'll be working with.
How could a steam distillation apparatus be used to collect essential oil with multiple fractions that can then be fed into the micro distillation apparatus to separate and purify these fractions?
This is an excellent two-step process that utilizes both techniques effectively. Here's how you can do it:

Step 1: Steam Distillation for Crude Essential Oil Extraction

Apparatus Setup: You'll need a standard steam distillation setup. This typically includes:

Boiling Flask/Still Pot: For your plant material (e.g., cinnamon bark, lavender flowers, peppermint leaves) and water.
Heating Mantle/Hot Plate: To heat the still pot.
Steam Inlet (Optional but Recommended): If you have an external steam generator, you can directly inject steam into the plant material. Otherwise, you'll be performing hydrodistillation (water and plant material boiled together).
Still Head/Claisen Adapter: Connects the still pot to the condenser.
Condenser (Liebig or Graham): To cool the steam/vapor back into liquid.
Receiving Flask/Separator: Often a Florentine flask or a simple separating funnel where the essential oil and water (hydrosol) will collect and separate.
Process:

Place your plant material in the still pot.
Add enough water to cover the plant material (for hydrodistillation) or set up your external steam generator.
Heat the still pot. Steam will pass through the plant material, volatilizing the essential oils.
The steam and essential oil vapors will travel into the condenser, where they will cool and condense back into liquid.
The condensed liquid (a mixture of essential oil and water, known as hydrosol) will flow into your receiving flask.
Collecting "Fractions" during Steam Distillation (Conceptual):

While steam distillation itself primarily collects the total essential oil, you could conceptually collect "fractions" by changing your receiving flask at different time intervals during the distillation.
Early Fractions: Might contain more of the lower-boiling, more volatile compounds.
Later Fractions: Might contain more of the higher-boiling, less volatile compounds.
Separation: Since essential oils are generally immiscible with water and less dense, they will float on top of the hydrosol layer in your receiver. You can then use a separating funnel to decant the essential oil layer from the hydrosol. This will give you your "crude" essential oil fractions.
Step 2: Fractional Distillation of Crude Essential Oil Fractions using Micro Short Path

Preparation:

Take the separated essential oil "fractions" (or even the entire crude essential oil) obtained from the steam distillation.
Ensure they are as water-free as possible. You might need to dry them over a small amount of an anhydrous drying agent (like anhydrous sodium sulfate) if there's residual water, then filter.
Micro Short Path Setup: Set up your micro short path distillation apparatus. This typically includes:

Distilling Flask: A small flask for your essential oil sample.
Heating Mantle/Oil Bath: For precise heating.
Short Path Head: Designed for minimal vapor path length.
Condenser: Integrated into the head, often water-cooled.
Receiving Flasks: Multiple small flasks or vials to collect different fractions as they distill.
Vacuum Pump: Crucial for achieving lower boiling points and preventing degradation.
Vacuum Gauge: To monitor the vacuum level.
Process:

Add your crude essential oil fraction to the distilling flask.
Apply vacuum.
Begin heating the distilling flask slowly and carefully.
Fraction Collection: As the temperature rises and different compounds boil and condense at their respective boiling points (under vacuum), collect them in separate receiving flasks.
Monitor the temperature closely. When the temperature stabilizes at a certain point, a particular compound or group of compounds is distilling.
Switch receiving flasks when the temperature starts to rise again, indicating a new component is beginning to distill.
Continue until all desired fractions have been collected or the remaining material is too high-boiling or degraded.
Example with Cinnamon:

Steam Distillation of Cinnamon Bark: You would steam distill ground cinnamon bark. The collected essential oil will be rich in cinnamaldehyde, but also contain other compounds like eugenol, beta-caryophyllene, and various terpenes.
Fractional Distillation of Cinnamon Essential Oil: You then take this crude cinnamon essential oil and feed it into your micro short path apparatus.
You might first collect a fraction of lower-boiling terpenes.
Then, as the temperature increases (under vacuum), you would collect the main cinnamaldehyde fraction.
Following that, you might get a fraction rich in eugenol or other higher-boiling components.
This multi-step approach allows you to first extract the essential oil in a relatively crude form and then meticulously separate and purify its individual components, making it an excellent learning experience for both distillation techniques! Remember safety first and research the boiling points of the compounds you expect to find in your chosen essential oil to guide your fractional distillation."

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Nitrox2 - 17-6-2025 at 20:06

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bnull - 18-6-2025 at 02:55

I recommend that, instead of consulting Gemini and other AI, you try books. Take a look at our Library. There is a book on semimicro and micro scale experiments, the books by Vogel and by Fieser, material much more reliable than whatever it is that AI can spout on demand.

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Nitrox2 - 18-6-2025 at 17:07

I have this block that is 7 1/4" x 15 11/16"

Not sure if I displayed that correctly. It is one tick below 15 3/4"

7.25"x15.6875"?


My 78 cent walmart rod is 36" long x 3/8" diameter.


I'm looking for suggestions on how I should divide up this block to make the best lab stands, I'm guessing I should only need 2 stands?


Would several little stands with 12" rods be nicer than 1 or 2 -- about 8"ish stands, with 300mm rods???


Is this a forstner bit that drills a flat bottom hole into the wood? Should I glue it in place?

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Cathoderay - 18-6-2025 at 17:30

Ha-ha! I was wondering who the heck Gemini was.

Seriously, why would you go to AI when you have people on this forum that could help you with your questions.

Chemistry is a huge field. It would take someone a couple of lifetimes to explore it all.
There are probably a million inorganic compounds possible and at least ten times that many organic compounds. It would make sense to narrow things down a bit.
I did recommend you view some of those series of videos showing various chemical processes and noticing the equipment used.
Are you interested in the science of chemistry itself (exploring, curiosity) or are you out to obtain something?
You know smaller glassware isn't necessarily cheaper. Somewhat larger sizes may cost less because more of that size are sold.
I second the idea of you doing more research on what could be done on a more or less amateur chemist basis. In the spirit of starting small (cost wise and with some basics procedure) you might download "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" by Brent.
Yes it is targeted more for pre-teens, but it does show some simple homemade equipment and use easy to obtain chemicals. There is plenty of more advance books in the library and many people on this forum that do very advanced chemistry. Also it is easy to see that many here are into there own specialties and may push you in that direction.

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Cathoderay - 18-6-2025 at 18:01

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

I have this block that is 7 1/4" x 15 11/16" Not sure if I displayed that correctly. It is one tick below 15 3/4" 7.25"x15.6875"? My 78 cent walmart rod is 36" long x 3/8" diameter. I'm looking for suggestions on how I should divide up this block to make the best lab stands, I'm guessing I should only need 2 stands? Would several little stands with 12" rods be nicer than 1 or 2 -- about 8"ish stands, with 300mm rods??? Is this a forstner bit that drills a flat bottom hole into the wood? Should I glue it in place?

I don't think that slab of wood would be enough for two bases. You don't want the stand to fall over so most have bases made of metal for weight. The smallest base (metal) I have is 5 X 7 with the 18 inch rod. The taller the rod the bigger the base should be. The lighter the base material the larger it should be. The rods on my stands are between 18 and 24 inches tall. The rods should be long enough so that a hotplate for instance can be put under a flask. The bigger base (solid aluminum) is 10 X 8 inch. Three eighths is a good diameter for the rod. The rod should be threaded and if the base is solid the base threaded. Some bases are thick steel sheet metal and use nuts above and below the sheet base. Do you know someone that can weld a steel rod to a steel base? I suppose you could use a wood base and put a chunk of steel on it for stability. Now I do use flasks up to 1000 ml.
You might want to think about ventilation, either do chemical processes outside or consider making a fume hood. There is a thread about fume hood on this forum. The stands should fit into the fume hood.

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Nitrox2 - 21-6-2025 at 16:57

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Nitrox2 - 23-6-2025 at 06:35

Mom says no




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2OYHl6_iLs&list=RDMM&am...

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Nitrox2 - 23-6-2025 at 07:34

Here was my setup I was hoping for.

I've noticed there are a lot of educational videos, in all subjects, in pretty much all areas of the classroom. However, I have noted, that there is no video showing the usage of a micro short path apparatus (one with a cow) being used to perform a reduced pressure distillation.



It would be educational if someone could make a video on it,
thought that I could be the "first".

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Cathoderay - 23-6-2025 at 14:52

What did mom say no to?

Maybe there are no videos of that because the equipment is unsuitable.

You have seemed to be reluctant to say what you are trying to do, however it now seems that you are intending to distill essential oils.

I think most times the oils are derived from distilling plant material that is much more bulkier that what would fit in a micro set up.

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bnull - 23-6-2025 at 15:17

I think I have an inkling of what you want. My suggestion is, take it easy. Buy the basic stuff (test tubes, beakers, heating mantle, stirrer, clamps, thermometer etc.) first and then the special items as need arises. There is no such thing as a chemistry dream kit.

Again, do not use AI as source of information.

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j_sum1 - 23-6-2025 at 16:25

Not that it is clear what you are wanting to do… but it seems that you have not chosen the easiest start point.
Short path and vacuum distillations are advanced variations on a theme. You need to master simple distillation first.
If you are interested in essential oils then you could go for steam distillation. There are starter kits specially designed for that and you can probably pick something up pretty cheaply.

More that that, no one can really help you until you give specific details on what you aim to do and ask some specific relevant questions. Similarly, if you are getting parental objections – there is little point reporting that unless you are explicit about what they have objected to. There are often workarounds, scaled down or safer alternatives, or additional safety measures that folks here can offer. Often with a clear goal, some patience, good communication and some good guidance, parents can change their mind. After all, they generally want the best for you and would usually prefer you pursue academic interests than hang out with riff-raff and get involved in destructive or antisocial activities.

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Nitrox2 - 23-6-2025 at 17:41

I was hoping to distill cinnamaldehyde and eugenol from the essential oil of cinnamon.

They have a small difference in boiling point. Is the Vigreux in the micro short path apparatus long enough to aid in that kind of separation?

Do different substances really boil differently based on their viscosity? I'd imagine that this might plague my setup.


I have a few questions that are hard to answer without experimental data.


I believe that this would be a learning experience, an educational resource, and help to reignite my math interests with implementation of the Clasius Clapeyron equation to uncover the boiling points of substances at a range of pressures.


Are there any other potential draw back or pitffalls of the proposed system?
Dangerous you mentioned? The only danger that I can think of would be the glassware imploding, but I hear that is rare and I would be wearing protective coverings.



[Edited on 6-24-25 by Nitrox2]

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Nitrox2 - 23-6-2025 at 18:07

My Mom is getting sick, point noted about her. I may need to really watch my ass a little more. I'm kind of in dire straits without her. I live away from town, have no car, no way of making money, no money -- and maybe one friend outside of her. She has started to think that there are bugs / eggs in the food. I have no support system, and have not been getting paid for the caregiving that I have been doing. If things worsen with her health, I will be looking at going back to a drug rehab program, for the free sober living housing it offers. (As bad as that can be) as a last resort. I really am quite screwed if I look at it. Perhaps it's no time to be doing these kinds of things.

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j_sum1 - 23-6-2025 at 18:26

So, two projects.
1. Extraction from cinnamon. I would be using steam distillation for that.
2. Separation of cinnamaldehyde from eugenol. Aldehydes form an adduct with bisulfite. I would use that as the basis for separation. Lots of videos on YT cover this process. Other resources available too. Search for aldehyde adduct. Much easier than a fractional distillation. No real special equipment required.

Sorry to hear about your home circumstances. Hopefully you can navigate your way through this difficult time.

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bnull - 24-6-2025 at 04:36

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

Perhaps it's no time to be doing these kinds of things.

Try Chemistry from the other side: the theory. I'm sure your mother won't object if you buy books in place of chemicals. No smell, no fire, no things blowing up.

While I was in college, I was lucky enough to find books for donation in the libraries. They used to receive old books from retired professors or from the family of the deceased ones. After adding the most sought after and the new ones to the inventory, the libraries put the excess copies and the old books and even some gems (by mistake) on a donation pile. A good part of my physical library came from these piles. Two or three were bought new, and the rest is second-hand at best. Well preserved but second-hand. My sixty-year-old copy of Kaplan's Advanced Calculus looks like it was printed a week ago and cost $4.

If she says no to paper books, use e-books. We have lots of them in our Library (too lazy to add link; it is part of my signature anyway).

[Edited on 24-6-2025 by bnull]

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Cathoderay - 24-6-2025 at 11:14

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

My Mom is getting sick, point noted about her. I may need to really watch my ass a little more. I'm kind of in dire straits without her. I live away from town, have no car, no way of making money, no money -- and maybe one friend outside of her. She has started to think that there are bugs / eggs in the food. I have no support system, and have not been getting paid for the caregiving that I have been doing. If things worsen with her health, I will be looking at going back to a drug rehab program, for the free sober living housing it offers. (As bad as that can be) as a last resort. I really am quite screwed if I look at it. Perhaps it's no time to be doing these kinds of things.

That does seem to be quite a situation. Besides books there are many chemistry videos you can see for free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmjbCQM-9ZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt8aYmMQ1KY
I'll have to support the idea that maybe this isn't the best time in your life to do these kinds of chemistry. You need to look to housing and food first.
Also, if I read your post correctly, you have been in drug rehab. That might be problematic if you want to do chemistry at home.
Sorry to hear your mom is also having problems.

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Nitrox2 - 24-6-2025 at 17:30

I'm not asking about steam distilling cinnamon essential oil but fractionally distilling at reduced pressure the cinnamaldehyde. Not because I'm after cinnamaldehyde, to be exact, but because I'm trying to learn the technique and its capabilities.


Here is some boiling point data for the compounds:
Cinnamaldehyde: Approximately 248-253 °C
Eugenol: Approximately 253-254 °C


I've heard "the effectiveness of the separation will depend upon the efficiency of the micro short path apparatus."


I've also heard that "the glass can separate within a degree."


Thanks for the condolences, and pointers everybody.

[Edited on 6-25-25 by Nitrox2]

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j_sum1 - 24-6-2025 at 18:47

Short path operates on vapour pressure only at temperatures below the boiling point -- usually under vacuum to make it more efficient. To be effective at a separation you need to have excellent temperature control and excellent pressure control. Read into that, high quality equipment.

Effective separation of close boiling point compounds is achieved through fractional distillation. That is, large surface area, gradual temperature gradient, and multiple sites for the lower fraction to condense in the column. Efficiency depends on the reflux ratio -- that is, the proportion of the vapour that is allowed to condense back into the flask compared to the proportion that makes it past the still head and to the condenser. 90% reflux would be common. For high BP compounds that are so close, you probably want to go even higher or be prepared to redistil.

In any case, a short path is not what you want for this project. Stacked Vigreux columns, a steady heat source and truckloads of patience are what you need.

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Nitrox2 - 26-6-2025 at 18:25

NEW TOPIC:


=================================================================



Here is a related, but new topic to the previous, more advanced idea.

Here is a basic setup - minus the darn 6" caliper for measuring diameters of tubing from harbor freight for $2 USD. -- They've been out of stock for the last 2 weeks or so. Also, there is no hotplate here. Which will be added, hopefully soon. I'm going to use a cheap stainless steel mixing bowl, to hold sand, which the glass will be cradled in. This is to prevent thermal shock, -- and a bit more.

This setup has some of the basic, but essential stuff.


Looking forward to philosophizing, looking into it -- and seeing, designing, modifying - and coming to conclusions on what I can do, as well as learning new topics related to the potential useage of the glass. Such as information about sand, why it makes a good heating bath material -- etc. There are chemistry concepts to learn, even with basic glassware.


I will post some of what I learn with what I have going here.

Suggestions, or potential experiments welcome

-- Something that seems to be calling me right now, is mixing up something with a certain solution density, and then seeing if my solution matches the -- solution density of the documented solution.












One question I have is the beaker, on the sticker it says it is not microwave safe, --does this mean also that it is not borosilicate glass, or not meant for heating?

On my applicator bottle to the right, it does not make a tight seal, that large white cone snaps down, I'm not sure if I would store anything that -- comes out of solution

I was able to run some glass straw through where the dropper was on the amber dropper bottle. I inserted the straw into the nipple, and cut around the straw, the straw slides in. It seems to hold atleast a little pressure / vacuum, likely enough for my potential distillations. Because the glass is not borosilicate, likely, I will be using a sand bath to heat it, potentially. It is best to use borosilicate glass.


I only was able to get the 2 pack of test tubes I'm not sure if the 2 pack is the same sized test tube as the 4 pack.

My pipettes seem to be a different material than what came in the general hydroponics pH adjustment kit. How can you differentiate between PP and HDPE/PE?

Lastly, I tried to flame bend my glass straw using an alcohol puddle in the contours of a can upside down, I lit it and twirled the glass. I was unable to get a bend, this suggests, to me, that it is not flint glass tubing.

Not sure what other questions if there are any, I have at the moment, but this should be enough to get me started with a few more.



[Edited on 6-27-25 by Nitrox2]

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j_sum1 - 26-6-2025 at 20:14

Add a few jam jars and you will be able to do some simple inorganic chemistry -- precipitation reactions and whatnot.

You won't be able to do density measurements without something accurate to measure volume. And even then it is difficult to get better than 99% accuracy.

Some pH strips would be a good addition. Also something to filter with -- funnels, filter paper. (Coffee filters at a pinch.)

At this level of investment I would highly recommend downloading the Little Golden Book of Chemistry -- link on our library. It has lots of good experiment ideas with readily available substances and gives some good guidance on making simple equipment.

Here are some other ideas:

Dissect a carbon-zinc battery (D size is best.) There are useful items inside. And processing the paste will get you into manganese chemistry. Pure MnSO4 is a challenging but reasonable goal.

You will probably want to build up a little catalog of chemicals. Acids in particular. See what is available to you. Many can also be made. Oxalic acid is a really good one to get. Because oxalates are often insoluble, there exist straightforward ways to use oxalic acid to synthesise other acids.

Have fun.

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bnull - 27-6-2025 at 06:47

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

Lastly, I tried to flame bend my glass straw using an alcohol puddle in the contours of a can upside down, I lit it and twirled the glass. I was unable to get a bend, this suggests, to me, that it is not flint glass tubing.

You need a blowtorch for that. Mine uses a syringe needle and some rubber/silicone tubing (the thinner type used in IV drips is perfect). Fit the needle to one end of the tubing. Make a support to hold the needle so its tip is a little distance away from the upper half of the flame of the alcohol lamp. You don't want the needle to get too hot because the connector will melt. You now blow some air on the other end of the tubing. It takes a little practice to keep air flowing from your cheeks to the tubing while breathing normally through your nose. There's a book on glassblowing in our Library.

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Nitrox2 - 27-6-2025 at 07:36

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Cathoderay - 27-6-2025 at 07:52

I will second the suggestion about a book in the library here. Download from this link.
https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html
Look nearly halfway down the list for "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" by Robert Brent. Lots of home made items. Somethings you already have better versions of.
This book was written in 1960 (a more innocent time before terrorism and widespread illegal drug manufacture) and the things available were different. Less plastic and more glass and metal for example.

Most of the translucent flexible items in you pictures are Low Density PolyEthylene (LDPE).
LDPE is fairly chemical resistant. The white caps on the containers could be made of several possible plastics, so the resistance is unknown. Probably OK for most aqueous solution but think twice about strong acids. Some chemicals may attack the black rubber on the dropper bottles. Be aware that some things sold are not good quality and may not seal well.
Here is a link to a video that gets into how useful PET bottles (clear) are for storing chemicals. It pays to be able to ID some plastics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Snse16qkE
The glass drinking straws may actually be s type of borosilicate glass which has an extra high softening temperature. Even "soft glass" needs to be heated to at least red hot to be shaped.

Here is a possible source of some useful things like small quantities of chemicals and some lab equipment.
https://www.homesciencetools.com/
This site does stress homeschooling and serious education so some thing are higher priced than elsewhere.
I still think that probably you really are not in a financial state to do somethings because of the cost of suitable equipment, etc.

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Nitrox2 - 27-6-2025 at 09:44

For my first experiment, (I hope to be running them in quick succession) I'm thinking of making sugar rock candy. I've heard that I want to heat a sugar solution 2 sugar : 1 water till it all dissolves, filter the mixture into a jar with a string sunken on a paper clip suspended from a pencil. Wait for evaporation to produce the crystals. I think this is different from making a supersaturated solution at temperature and then cooling it to make sugar precipitate, but I'm not exactly sure. I think the evaporation will lead to different crystals? Not sure here.


I've really been wondering if my beaker is borosilicate.
It looks very beaker like, unlike a Pyrex measuring cup
It might not say if it is borosilicate.

In the next few weeks, I will be keeping my eyes open for "splash goggles", a hotplate, and potentially 1 other glass item. (What should it be???) In addition to sand. A 3mL syringe, (for volumetric measurements of liquid. A stainless-steel mixing bowl (flat bottom?) Potentially a larger, maybe more better sealing applicator bottle set, -- I really don't want to shell out the money for another blowtorch, but I might have to.

I'd like to make a 75-degree bend in the glass straw, wondering if I'd need to make a Kjeldahl bulb in line, to prevent bumping. I notice some of them have complex inner tubing areas -- that is something I'd not be able to replicate with my level of glassblowing skill.
Also, I'd like to possible stretch the glass straws. They are fairly long, and I am quite happy with them. Wondering how I should utilize the rest of the glass straws.

Perhaps cutting a bit of tube off and use latex tubing (where can I find it?) to connect it I can make a bend that way, without a torch.

Other than that, the scale didn't come with a calibration weight, perhaps something else will make due? I have yet to look at it further.

Would a graduated cylinder be recommended as my next piece of glassware or what?? I know it's been stated I can use a scale and density to figure out a volume, but what if I don't know the density of my solution?



[Edited on 6-27-25 by Nitrox2]

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Cathoderay - 27-6-2025 at 13:05

That brings back memories.
When I was about 10-12 years old or so I did the growing sugar crystal thing like you describe.
Or at least I tried to, my younger brother kept pulling the string out! I would set it up in a closet and a day later the string was pulled out. When asked he said, he didn't want the paper clip to rust. ( I guess that gives you some idea of how long I've been doing things like that.) Back in those days you could buy chemistry sets (Gilbert or Skilcraft) from Sears or "Perfect Science" chemistry items from toy or hobby stores.

If you crystalize something fast the crystals will be small but numerous. Big crystals need to grow slowly.

Seriously you should download that book by Brent. It has answers to many of your questions.

If you have a good local hardware store it may have the latex tubing. I have one near me that sells it by the foot from big reels.
A more chemical resistant flexible tubing is clear plastic "Tygon". It isn't as flexible as latex tubing however. If not at a hardware store, the air tubing found for aquariums at pet stores may work. Be aware that all flexible tubing can be damaged by some type of chemical or other. Latex tubing will turn brown and deteriorate with time, a year or two.

By the way, bumping which you seem to be troubled with can be reduced by adding "boiling stones" which can be small pieces of broken glass. The stone need to be jagged, not smooth. Not heating too rapidly also helps with bumping.



[Edited on 6/27/2025 by Cathoderay]

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Nitrox2 - 29-6-2025 at 19:23

This is the rest of it that is coming.

Hope everything checks out ok. I'll need some sand, I've heard its best to use a certain type, but don't know what I'll do. Also, I was unable to get a stainless-steel mixing bowl (for use as a crystallization dish/Containment of heating bath.) I think I will add my sand (golf course) to a cooking pot.






[Edited on 6-30-25 by Nitrox2]

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Nitrox2 - 29-6-2025 at 21:02

Here is something interesting I was conversing with Gemini about.

I wrote to Gemini
Gemini:

"I've heard -- that sand is better if it has more thermal mass AND (blank?)"

Gemini wrote:
"You're hitting on a key point about sand baths, especially in the context of thermal energy storage or heating:

**Sand is better if it has more thermal mass AND good thermal conductivity (or a system designed to overcome its poor conductivity).

Let's break down why:

Thermal Mass: This refers to a material's ability to absorb, store, and release heat. Sand, being a dense material, can store a significant amount of thermal energy. The more thermal mass, the longer it can hold heat. This is why "sand batteries" are being explored for large-scale energy storage.

The "AND" - Thermal Conductivity (or how to manage it): This is where sand often falls short compared to liquids like water or oil.

The Challenge: Individual sand grains are poor conductors of heat, and more importantly, the air trapped between the grains acts as an insulator. This means that while the sand near the heat source might get very hot, it's slow to transfer that heat evenly throughout the entire mass of sand. You end up with "hot spots" and "cold spots," leading to poor temperature uniformity.

Solutions/Contexts where sand shines despite this:

Very High Temperatures: For applications requiring temperatures above what water or oil can handle safely (e.g., above 300-400°C), sand becomes a viable option because its thermal stability is very high (it won't break down or catch fire).

Long-Term Heat Retention: If the goal is to store heat for a very long time (hours, days, or even months), the poor conductivity can actually be a benefit, as it means the heat dissipates very slowly from the core of the sand mass. This is crucial for "sand batteries" where the heat is typically extracted by circulating air through embedded pipes, rather than relying on direct conduction through the entire mass.

Simple, Low-Precision Heating: For situations where precise temperature control isn't critical, and you just need a generally hot environment (e.g., heating a crucible in a simple setup), a sand bath can work.

Systems with Agitation/Convection: In industrial or highly engineered sand-based heating systems, methods like fluidizing the sand (blowing air through it to make it behave like a liquid) or actively circulating it are used to overcome its poor inherent conductivity and ensure more uniform heat transfer.

In summary:

You're right that high thermal mass is a benefit for sand as a heating medium because it can store a lot of energy. However, the blank you're looking for is often related to thermal conductivity and the uniformity of heat distribution. If your application requires very precise and uniform heating, sand's natural tendency to have hot and cold spots can be a significant drawback unless specific measures are taken to enhance heat transfer throughout the sand."





----



I had previously thought that sand was superior when it came to precise uniform heating.

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Nitrox2 - 5-7-2025 at 23:29



Incoming

Going to get back to math soon too

















[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]

[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]

[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]

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Nitrox2 - 6-7-2025 at 08:21





[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]


Trying to make copper oxalate--

[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]



[Edited on 7-6-25 by Nitrox2]

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bnull - 6-7-2025 at 11:44

Filtration won't work unless you let the solution rest for a few days.

Edit: Is that a coffee filter? That won't do. You need something with smaller pores, such as a small cotton ball stuffed into the stem of the funnel or a piece of cotton fabric (from an old t-shirt, for example).

[Edited on 6-7-2025 by bnull]

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Nitrox2 - 6-7-2025 at 15:47

Yes it's a coffee filter, I'm a little lost as to why it wouldn't work? I thought it had small enough pores.


Anyone else want to corroborate?


Also, when filtering a precipitate, from say a test tube, can one just let the precipitate settle and then decant the fluid?

[Edited on 7-7-25 by Nitrox2]

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bnull - 6-7-2025 at 16:08

Quote:

Yes it's a coffee filter, I'm a little lost as to why it wouldn't work? I thought it had small enough pores.

It doesn't. Fresh copper oxalate is a pest to filter: did you notice that the filtered solution is practically the same color as the unfiltered one? I don't know if it has to do with the solubility of copper oxalate or how fast the crystals are formed, most probably both, but the crystals are very, very small.

Quote:

Also, when filtering a precipitate, from say a test tube, can one just let the precipitate settle and then decant the fluid?

Usually yes. Some precipitates take a long time to settle, especially when concentrated solutions are used. Others need to age in order to increase the size of the crystals, which is the case of copper oxalate. In both situations, letting the solution rest for a while is less taxing on your patience than filtering right away and seeing the filtration fail again and again. Of course, some substances degrade with time (oxidation by dissolved oxygen, photodecomposition) and you need to remove them from solution as fast as possible, as is the case with copper (i) chloride.

[Edited on 7-7-2025 by bnull]

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Nitrox2 - 6-7-2025 at 17:16

Doing a fresh batch, I need to brush up on my stoichiometry, but Gemini quickly stated .721g of oxalic acid to 2g Copper sulfate Penta hydrate.

I dissolved as much of the copper sulfate Pentahydrate as I could this time, I wasn't able to get it all to dissolve in the smaller capacity of my test tube, so I filtered the undissolved copper sulphate Pentahydrate.


I then added .72g of oxalic acid to the test tube, and mixed the two.

Here are before and after photos, I've got it in the freezer right now. I'm wondering if it will aid in the precipitation.


How would one retrieve the product from a cotton ball? I've never had to think of using qualitative paper or anything more than a coffee filter, as far as I know.


Is this the same, or better or worse, as is a cotton ball plugged in the funnel stem?


What other copper salts degrade in the air and or light and what do they turn into?










I decanted the fluid a bit, I will give it a few days to see if it clears up.

Additionally, I thought precipitations happen rather quickly so longer as there is good mixing --


I'm not sure either why it's retaining the color

And, it is, passing right through the coffee filter paper!
When you say plug the stem with a cotton ball, is this in addition to a filter?





Ps I used bars keepers friend as my oxalic acid source

[Edited on 7-7-25 by Nitrox2]

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bnull - 7-7-2025 at 07:31

Quote:

Doing a fresh batch, I need to brush up on my stoichiometry, but Gemini quickly stated .721g of oxalic acid to 2g Copper sulfate Penta hydrate. [...] Ps I used bars keepers friend as my oxalic acid source

Oxalic acid is usually sold as the dihydrate (~126 g/mol). This would mean about 1 g of acid to 2 g of copper sulfate. Bar Keepers has other stuff in it, such as a surfactant (most probably the sodium salt of an alkylbenzene sulfonate) and an abrasive (quartz, feldspar). If you're in the UK, there will be no more than 10% oxalic acid (unless it comes from a pre-regulation batch). Assuming that your Bar Keepers is 10% oxalic acid, you would need ten times the figure I gave, that is, 10 g of Bar Keepers to 2 grams of copper sulfate pentahydrate.

Quote:

How would one retrieve the product from a cotton ball? I've never had to think of using qualitative paper or anything more than a coffee filter, as far as I know.

The funnel with a cotton ball is basically a poor man's Büchner funnel. Take a piece of cotton, push it into the funnel and hold it with your thumb or middle finger while you compress it from the stem with a glass rod, pen or pencil. the top of the cotton need to be a little bit above the joint between stem and cone of the funnel. To retrieve the product, invert the funnel over a filter paper and push the cotton ball with a glass rod, then scrape the product from the cotton the same way you would do if you had used a filter paper. No secrets here. And no, you don't need to use a filter paper in addition to the cotton ball.

Quote:

What other copper salts degrade in the air and or light and what do they turn into?

Copper (i) salts in general oxidize in the air. Chloride, iodide, I think the bromide does it too. I don't remember any photosensitive copper salt. Silver, on the other hand...

Quote:

Additionally, I thought precipitations happen rather quickly so longer as there is good mixing

Yes, precipitations can be really fast, but the same can't be said of the settling of the precipitate at the bottom of the flask. It has to do with particle size and shape, adsorbed water and whatnot.

Quote:

I'm not sure either why it's retaining the color

Not enough oxalic acid. Add more. Since we're at it, use solutions of the substances when you want to make a precipitate. You don't want to cake it with the powder.

Quote:

And, it is, passing right through the coffee filter paper!

Like I said, the pores are too large. If you don't want to use cotton, try newspaper (the cheapest is the best) or a laboratory filter paper. Don't need to go fancy, AliExpress grade is fine for that.

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Cathoderay - 7-7-2025 at 15:36

I'm seeing the sciencemadness server slowing down.

I'm not sold on the coffee filters being too coarse, but maybe.

A way of separating very find precipitants is using a centrifuge. Something you might have seen if you watched some of the videos I recommended. But then something like a centrifuge may be out of your price range.

I think your main problem was not discussing what you wanted to do beforehand. You act like you are working on state secrets.
If you had said that you were going to use "Barkeeper's Friend" as your oxalic acid someone may have steered you straight. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but most over the counter things are mixtures with other chemicals included. The label often lists the active ingredients and/or dangerous ones. However they are not necessarily the major portion. "Barkeeper's" might be mostly silica powder for instance. You could find out how much oxalic acid is in it by titrating with a standardized base solution and a pH indicator. The silica powder may be clogging the filter for another thing. The oxalic acid solution should be clear. Filtering it beforehand would have been a good idea. The surfactant (detergent) might also be effecting the results.

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bnull - 8-7-2025 at 07:31

Quote:

I'm not sold on the coffee filters being too coarse, but maybe.

See this thread and NurdRage's video on sulfuric acid from sulfates.

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Cathoderay - 8-7-2025 at 11:22

I didn't know what Nitrox2 was after, seems like it is sulfuric acid.

Yes, I was going to suggest NurdRage's video about it. I believe that NurdRage addressed the ferric/ferrous (oxidation state) in his video.

I did think about diatomaceous earth also. Often you can find that at a gardening store.

I'm not sure Keras' conclusion was accurate, he should have distilled the liquid before he titrated it. There could be more oxalic acid remaining than his estimate. Results have to be proved without a doubt.

However, I doubt Nitrox2 should be distilling sulfuric acid at this point and with the equipment he has. That is a process that is very hazardous.

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bnull - 8-7-2025 at 18:04

Quote:

I didn't know what Nitrox2 was after, seems like it is sulfuric acid.

No, it is copper oxalate itself.

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

Trying to make copper oxalate

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Cathoderay - 8-7-2025 at 19:06

Oh, sorry, I missed that.
In that case the diatomaceous earth would not be a good choice. It would be hard to separate the DE from the copper oxalate.

Filter paper does come in different grades, but even the finest might not be enough.
then there are membrane filters but those probably are expensive.
https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/catalog/search/products?keyw...

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Nitrox2 - 8-7-2025 at 19:28

Think this pretty much completes it for now.
This should be all
Maybe a nicer funnel and get a bend in my straw for usage as a gas delivery tube.


Thanks everyone for the advice!




[Edited on 7-9-25 by Nitrox2]



[Edited on 7-9-25 by Nitrox2]

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Cathoderay - 9-7-2025 at 06:39

OK.
I would add more breakers of various sizes, easier to clean than the conical flasks.

I couldn't help but think about your effort to make copper oxalate. You might try various ways of producing crystals of a larger size to help filtering work.
Some things you could try: more dilute solutions (slowing down the reaction because the active molecules would be farther apart), running the reaction at colder temperature.
If you stick with "Barkeeper's Friend" I would filter out the silicate first and re-crystallize the oxalic acid to purify it. The surfactant would still be in it in small amount.
Since you are not after sulfuric acid how about reacting the copper sulfate with sodium oxalate instead. Instead of having sulfuric acid in the solution afterwards you would have sodium sulfate. Making it that way might make bigger crystals.
You could convert oxalic acid to sodium oxalate by reacting it with sodium hydroxide.

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Nitrox2 - 10-7-2025 at 15:05

I added some aluminum can tabs to a string to try to make copper sulphate crystals on a string from copper sulphate solution.

I noticed bubbling, I asked GEMINI why, but forgot the reasoning.

It did say that copper is being plated onto the aluminum tab because it (Aluminum) is more reactive of a metal than copper, based on the reactivity series or activity series. This seems new to me, I've taken up to general chemistry 1, but do not remember these terms. I thought it perhaps had to do with the electronegativity.




My first plating!



[Edited on 7-10-25 by Nitrox2]

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Cathoderay - 11-7-2025 at 10:00

It may be more like a deposit of copper, if a powder rubs off easily it and does not leave a copper coating behind then it is a deposit. Aluminum is tricky to plate because the metal wants to bond with any oxygen around and the aluminum oxide is very tough and inert.

Here again there may be an issue of purity. Most aluminum you come across will be an alloy of aluminum and other things like magnesium, copper, zinc, silicon or iron. Most alloys are at least 90% aluminum however.
The bubbles could be oxygen released from the surface oxide or some reactions with the alloying additives.
I think Wikipedia is better source of info that Gemini.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy

It turns out that the alloy used on the top of aluminum cans is a different alloy than the rest of it. I think the top is 3004 or something.

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Nitrox2 - 11-7-2025 at 12:16

If anyone is curious about my wooden stand, the rod wobbles.
I think it's the weight at the top and the flexibility of the wood.



[Edited on 7-11-25 by Nitrox2]

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bnull - 11-7-2025 at 12:31

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

I noticed bubbling, I asked GEMINI why, but forgot the reasoning.

It is hydrogen. Copper sulfate has a little sulfuric acid remaining from the manufacture process.

Edit: But you also have copper in contact with aluminum in a solution with copper ions, so it has probably more to do with local electrolysis than a simple reaction with acid. Maybe both.

If you want copper sulfate crystals, make a saturated solution in a beaker, cover it with a PVC film, wax paper or even aluminum paper and poke holes in the covering. You get a slower rate of evaporation and the crystals have more time to grow.

If you want metallic copper crystals (that's what the aluminum tabs suggest), add copper sulfate to a test tube, fill it with dry sodium sulfate, cover it with a disc of filter paper and put a small disc of steel (cut it from a metal can, mind the fingers) on top of the filter paper. Add a saturated solution of the alkaline sulfate until it is about 0.5 cm above the steel disc. Cork the test tube and leave it alone for a few weeks. The result are small metallic copper crystals, something that you can't make if you use copper sulfate solution. Sodium sulfate lenghthens the time that copper ions take to diffuse to the top so you get crystals rather than a crumbly sponge.

Take a look at the book From Crystal to Solution by Krestov and Kobenin (https://mirtitles.org/2012/07/04/from-crystal-to-solution-kr...).

[Edited on 11-7-2025 by bnull]

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Nitrox2 - 12-7-2025 at 09:10

I heard the solution becomes acidic from dissolving copper sulphate, or something like that. Will double check everything



[Edited on 7-12-25 by Nitrox2]

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Nitrox2 - 14-7-2025 at 20:07

Picked up about a foot of latex and some sodium hydroxide today.


I'm wondering what type of file I need to score the glass to get a clean break.



Also I'm wondering why there is what appears to be a mutagenic label on the NaOH?



[Edited on 7-15-25 by Nitrox2]

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bnull - 15-7-2025 at 07:08

Quote:

I'm wondering what type of file I need to score the glass to get a clean break.

It's got more to do with making a single score and a quick snap. If there are multiple scratches, chances are the cut will be uneven.You can use a triangular file, a glass cutter (carbide wheel or diamond tip), a piece of tungsten carbide or even a quartz shard. I've used the file, the carbide glass cutter and quartz.

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Cathoderay - 15-7-2025 at 07:11

As bnull and I suggested a month ago, reading some books may answer many of your questions.

A link to the library.
https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html

Look almost half way down the page, a book titled "Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" by Robert Brent. That book was published in 1960 for teenagers.
There are some simple experiments and ways of making equipment. It seems like there were easier ways of getting some chemicals then, some are no longer available over the counter these days. It shows a way to cut glass tubing with a triangular file. I think your glass tubing is borosilicate so you would need a very hot flame to soften it.

In general if you don't take good advice people will stop offering it.

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Nitrox2 - 15-7-2025 at 09:59

Sorry, I was not clear in my last post. I was looking for a common at home item I could use to make a clean cut, Gemini mentioned a nail to score the glass, heating the glass, and then submerging it, in water.

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Texium - 15-7-2025 at 11:00

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2

Sorry, I was not clear in my last post. I was looking for a common at home item I could use to make a clean cut, Gemini mentioned a nail to score the glass, heating the glass, and then submerging it, in water.

That’s shit advice. Don’t trust Gemini or other LLMs. Ever. In fact, please don’t post the crap you get from them here. If you don’t want advice from real people, leave.

Anyway, just buy one of these like bnull suggested: https://www.amazon.com/XAQISHIRE-Triangular-Without-Suitable...

It’s cheap and does the job perfectly. It’s useful to have on hand.

Also, don’t think you’re fooling anyone. It’s painfully obvious that you are an Yttrium2 sockpuppet. I won’t ban you yet but you’re on thin ice.

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Cathoderay - 16-7-2025 at 06:37

Almost any hardware store has triangular files.
You should get out more and explore places like hardware stores, gardening stores, pharmacies, etc. Just keep your eyes open and remember what you see.

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Nitrox2 - 17-7-2025 at 09:32

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2   Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping? [Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2] That's a short path designed to run under vacuum and collect several fractions without breaking the vacuum. That's not a beginner setup. And does not need a claisen. OTOH a short path condenser is very convenient even if it is not used as designed. For versatility however, nothing beats a 300mm liebig. If you are distilling anything, add to your list an aquarium pump and some tubing.

Why would the Lisa Nichols demonstration need a claisen adapter to prevent bumping from contaminating the recieving flask and not the micro short path apparatus, which uses the same, if not similar, micro short path condeser?


Wouldn't it be needing a claisen adapter too? Why or why not?




[Edited on 7-17-25 by Nitrox2]

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Sulaiman - 29-9-2025 at 07:42

currently available via online shopping sites at less than usd20 with p&p
h

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