Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Was it HDN?

Was it HDN?

freedompyro - 17-6-2011 at 23:24

A while back I tested this synthesis for HDN.

Code:

HDN HCl Synth
5g Hexamine
65ml 30% HCl
10g Ammonium Nitrate
1. Pour the HCl into your reaction chamber and add your ammonium nitrate.
2. After all the Ammonium nitrate has dissolved, keep your solution at 5 degrees Celsius.After this step has been taken, slowly add your hexamine.
3. HDN crystals appear. Filter, and let fully dry.Note: Yields should be around 3g per 5g Hexamine
(KEEP HDN AWAY FROM WATER!!)(DON'T WASH HDN WITH WATER)

It acted like a normal nitration. Each addition of hexamine caused a rise in temperature. I kept it around 5C I think. Maybe had a few quick jumps up to 7C or so. Don't exactly remember... What I do remember is I ended up with a bunch of white powder.

I couldn't get it to self deflagrate so I thought something was wrong somewhere and just tossed the stuff. Left some outside in very moist air and it disappeared after a day or so.
Kinda mystified me... I thought it would deflagrate like NG, ETN, or EGDN...

Couldn't figure out how to wash it properly anyway. Will acetone or ethanol work?

I have ratios for a HNO3 synthesis but it makes no sense... Won't the water just ruin the HDN?

Code:

HDN
250ML water
70g Hexamine.
50% HNO3 (150ml)
1. Add 70g hexamine to 250ml water and stir till all hexamine dissolves.
2. Add the 50% HNO3 to the mixture and filter then HDN appears.
(KEEP HDN AWAY FROM WATER!!)(DON'T WASH HDN WITH WATER)

Making sure I have correct information here...

Edit: On second thought... This is a pain in the neck... The R-Salt route seems more foolproof. CTMTNA(R-Salt) also seems more useful without the second nitration too.

[Edited on 18-6-2011 by freedompyro]

Peroxid - 17-6-2011 at 23:42

HDN is Hexamine-DiNitrate, it is a organic salt. HDN decomposing by water, so you can't wash it with water. The filtered crystals wash with aceton, after dry it, and storing in a dry place. In a moist place HDN decompose for formaldehyde and ammonia. Anyway the second way to synth. HDN is better than first, but you need to cool the hexamine and nitric acid solution.

[Edited on 18-6-2011 by Peroxid]

freedompyro - 17-6-2011 at 23:53

Quote: Originally posted by Peroxid

Anyway the second way to synth. HDN is better than first, but you need to cool the hexamine and nitric acid solution.

[Edited on 18-6-2011 by Peroxid]

I always keep my nitrations under 20C. I always have gotten the best results in the 13-20C range personally... That is just the simple one step nitration's though. These double stage ones are a bit more complex... Never gonna bother with TnT! That has crazy complex temperature control... LoL... 5x more complex than RDX.

Btw, slightly off topic. Is there a more efficient ratio of Nitrate Salt to H2SO4 than 1-2 for distillation? I use weight, not volume.

[Edited on 18-6-2011 by freedompyro]