Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Advice sought on CO

Advice sought on CO

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 04:47

Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly. I’m looking for a humane way to end the misery of my 15-year old dog. Firearms are not available in my country, I don’t have the heart to smash his head or anything like that. I can, however (and ironically), legally purchase 1 l sulfuric acid (96-98%) and 1 l formic acid (80%). I have no lab equipment, since science is not my field. Maybe I can use a 10 l rather thick glass canister to make CO. I’d like to end him this way, in a manner that should be also safe for me. I’m aware that the reaction would also produce heat, but I don’t know how much. I’d really appreciate some advice. Thank you.

Bot0nist - 22-6-2011 at 04:50

I hope your trolling man...

Don't euthanize your dog .

Arthur Dent - 22-6-2011 at 04:55

There's a thing called a "veterinarian" which will for the sum of $40/$60, humanely and without any pain, dispach your poor suffering pooch.

If your dog isn't worth that much to your eyes, then I don't know. :mad:

Robert

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 04:56

No, I'm not trolling. I wish I were. I mean every single word I wrote. And I'd really appreciate advice on that.

Bot0nist - 22-6-2011 at 04:57

Here's some advice, DON'T GAS YOUR DOG!

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:01

I checked and the "veterinarian" thing is not available in my backwards area. I'd gladly use it, but...

redox - 22-6-2011 at 05:02

A veterinarian is a doctor, except he works on and helps animals instead of people.

What country do you live in?

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by redox]

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:03

An Eastern European shit hole; an ugly word, but so true...

redox - 22-6-2011 at 05:05

I sympathize with you, Aura, you seek a way to put down your dog, but gassing with carbon monoxide is not the way to do it. It is a very dangerous gas, and there are many easier ways to kill an organism.

How about antifreeze? Methanol? Ethylene glycol?
Do they have these products in your country?

woelen - 22-6-2011 at 05:06

Why do you think that this will be a painless way of killing your dog? With the two chemicals you mention you indeed make CO, but also quite some formic acid vapor will escape from the reaction mix and this will be VERY painful for your dog.

Messing around with such quantities of CO is very dangerous, also for yourself and other people nearby.

As stated by Arthur Dent, the best way is to use the service of a veretinarian.

DO NOT MIX 1 L OF H2SO4 AND HCOOH.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:13

Thanks for the answer, woelen. I was thinking CO because from what I've read it's supposed to be quick and painless. And no, the veterinarian thing is not available, really.

woelen - 22-6-2011 at 05:18

DOUBLE POST: database hicc-up

[Edited on 22-6-11 by woelen]

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:24

So then, if CO is out of question, should I start wondering about methanol, or ethylene glycol? Are they painless, quick? I hardly know anything about them, and this problem really hurts me. I know I sound silly, but the options here are limited, and so is my knowledge of Chemistry.

entropy51 - 22-6-2011 at 05:26

Carbon DIOXIDE is an approved euthanasia agent. Google "euthanasia" together with "carbon dioxide".

redox - 22-6-2011 at 05:26

Well, ethylene glycol, would actually taste sweet to your dog, I think.

I wouldn't really suggest methanol, as that would probably blind your dog before it kills it.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:42

Should I resort to another idea for making CO? I read somewhere: 4 C + 2 NaNO3=3 CO+Na2CO3+N2.
Would this work, and how?

Nicodem - 22-6-2011 at 05:43

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

Thanks for the answer, woelen. I was thinking CO because from what I've read it's supposed to be quick and painless. And no, the veterinarian thing is not available, really.

Who are you trying to fool? Every shithole in Europe has a veterinary station close by, particularly in eastern Europe. Hunter's associations also do the killing service in many European countries, very cheaply and with pleasure.
Your inquiries in using carbon monoxide as a poisoning gas is nonsense. There are dozens of other poisons more suitable for killing a dog, but carbon monoxide is only suitable for presenting a homicide as a suicide or accident.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 05:53

No, Nicodem, I was just trying to find an answer. I'm not trying to use the forum as a muderer's handbook. I can't kill my own dog, much less a person. Sorry if I made you believe otherwise. So far, I only found out what NOT to do, thanks to woelen, but not more. That's because I found no vet, on a 15-km radius, willing to perform it. Moral reasons, they say.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

redox - 22-6-2011 at 06:25

Is there a pound or an animal shelter nearby? Usually they are happy to take animals off of your hands.

Bot0nist - 22-6-2011 at 06:25

Quote: Originally posted by Nicodem

Your inquiries in using carbon monoxide as a poisoning gas is nonsense. :snip: Carbon monoxide is only suitable for presenting a homicide as a suicide or accident.

That's what I was thinking when I reported this post.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 06:34

Well, Botonist, you are right, it may sound like that, but it's not. I wish I could do something to change your mind.
Redox dear, I don't know where you live, but it's for sure a more civilized place. Looks like another planet to me.

Morgan - 22-6-2011 at 07:25

How to Kill a Human Being
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/
http://www.news.com.au/technology/humans-will-become-the-pet...

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 07:35

Thanks, Morgan, but it's about killing a dog, not a human. There are probably many ways to do it, but I need to do it quickly and painlessly, because I don't have the heart to do it otherwise. I'll go check those links anyway.
Ooops, I watched only 7 mins of the first one and already freaked. That's why I dream of something simple, like pressing a button-and there goes my dog!
I was hoping CO would do the trick, but the whole topic of the thread just went away.
[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

Saerynide - 22-6-2011 at 08:36

What the fuck is your problem?? Please don't kill your dog

He loves you and has trusted you with his life for 15 years. What would he think if he knew you would kill him??

Even if your dog is very sick, chances are he would never want you to kill him - animals ALWAYS want to live - it is programmed in them. Please don't kill him

Whatever you do, DO NOT USE METHANOL OR ETHYLENE GLYCOL. Antifreeze poisoning is a very painful death - they will go into kidney failure and take days to die. And methanol will make him go blind and give him seizures from metabolic acidosis long before he dies.

I don't know what your circumstances are and why you want to kill your dog, but if he is really suffering terribly and you must end his life out of compassion, please don't poison him with chemicals. Take him to a vet or find some heroin or something if you are that desperate, but don't poison him

AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT otc painkillers like acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. They are very toxic to dogs and cats in very painful ways.

I don't know what I can say to change your mind, but he loves you very much. Don't do it

[Edited on 6/23/2011 by Saerynide]

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 08:47

I wouldn't do anything at all that would make him suffer. I just want to end his suffering, not add more. And that because I really love him. You have no idea how much it hurts me to see him suffer. Anyway, unless I discover a quick and painless way, chemicals, poisons are out of question. I really hoped CO would be the way, and now I'm so disappointed.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

m1tanker78 - 22-6-2011 at 08:54

Please don't use ethylene glycol. It may take DAYS for the dog to die and will suffer greatly in that time. If all else fails, slitting the dogs throat properly will cause it to pass out until it bleeds to death. Sounds cruel but I think it's better (for the dog) than taking a shovel or stick to its head.

Find an animal doctor or seek advice from a MD before you take this into your hands. Perhaps a farmer can help??

Tank

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 08:56

No, I really don't have the heart to slit his throat (I put the knife there and just couldn't do it). And poisons are out of question.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

LanthanumK - 22-6-2011 at 08:58

Ask someone else to do it then, someone you trust.

Saerynide - 22-6-2011 at 09:01

Just be with him. Stay by his side and let him know how much you love him. If you think he is suffering that much that you want to take his life, it will not be long before he leaves on his own anyway. Just comfort him. That is the best you can do for anyone you love. No one wants to die alone...

Also for you own sanity, don't put him down. It will scar you for life. You will never get over it. you may think you are doing him a favor now, but your decision will haunt you.

You need to ask yourself, if this was your sibling or your human friend, no matter how much he or she suffered, would you kill them? Would they ask you to kill them? What would they want from you, other than for you to be there for them? Why should it be any different for your dog?

[Edited on 6/23/2011 by Saerynide]

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 09:31

Well, I tried all these options and nobody would help. MD's were suspicious (maybe rightfully so), there are pills I don't have access to, guns are illegal here, we have no farmers like you have in America. It's incredibly frustrating.
And the same here-please, guys, don't take any offense, because it's not my intention-instead of advice on how can I safely manufacture CO, I got into something else.
It's time to go to bed in my part of the world. Have a nice day!

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

Morgan - 22-6-2011 at 09:50

I once saw a National Geographic photographer hang it up in Africa, he couldn't stand to see all the animals eating each other on a grand scale. Life is very sad on many levels. I have a dachshund that I inherited when my father died. My dog nearly died of pancreatitis and didn't eat for weeks on end. Finally I got him to eat. Then he got sick again and I think I lost a few years of my life worrying from the stress. But now he is better. I feed him fresh healthy foods, keep him slim, and give him exercise. He turned 15 last month and gets around fine now, and even jogs with me for a block or two.
I really found the documentary to be very good. I didn't care for the first 7 minutes either. Perhaps the last 7 minutes illustrate the best way to go, with euphoria.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

Nitrogen is formally considered to have been discovered by Daniel Rutherford in 1772, who called it noxious air or fixed air.[1] The fact that there was an element of air that does not support combustion was clear to Rutherford. Nitrogen was also studied at about the same time by Carl Wilhelm Scheele, Henry Cavendish, and Joseph Priestley, who referred to it as burnt air or phlogisticated air. Nitrogen gas was inert enough that Antoine Lavoisier referred to it as "mephitic air" or azote, from the Greek word ἄζωτος (azotos) meaning "lifeless".[2] In it, animals died and flames were extinguished. Lavoisier's name for nitrogen is used in many languages (French, Polish, Russian, etc.) and still remains in English in the common names of many compounds, such as hydrazine and compounds of the azide ion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Morgan]

Random - 22-6-2011 at 10:24

Would you want to kill a human (possibly a member of your family) if you see him/her suffering? I think you wouldn't, you would try to make his natural death easier, but definitelly you wouldn't try to harm him or her.

For dog, it's the same thing, so I don't think you should try to kill him, that won't make it easy for him as every way when you die is painful even when you die in sleep.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 10:30

I won't have anyone suffer, man or animal; still, there should be ways to let an animal go without suffering, into an eternal sleep. Terminate the pain, end the suffering, the humane thing to do. Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be.

LanthanumK - 22-6-2011 at 10:36

Instead of Sciencemadness, its Animalrightsmadness. :cool:

The WiZard is In - 22-6-2011 at 10:39

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly. I’m looking for a humane way to end the misery of my 15-year old dog. Firearms are not available in my country, I don’t have the heart to smash his head or anything like that. I can, however (and ironically), legally purchase 1 l sulfuric acid (96-98%) and 1 l formic acid (80%). I have no lab equipment, since science is not my field. Maybe I can use a 10 l rather thick glass canister to make CO. I’d like to end him this way, in a manner that should be also safe for me. I’m aware that the reaction would also produce heat, but I don’t know how much. I’d really appreciate some advice. Thank you.

Your one atom off from an ideal gas.

Baby fur seals are killed by clubbing ... granted not pretty,
however, this method has been tested and found to humane,
i.e., quick, painless and does not stress the animal.

djh
----
Dead. Needlessly,
John M Allen
NY Times, 9x76.

Pawling, N.Y.—I killed your cat early this morning, You know, the
small black-and-white one, sleek-furred and friendly—about three months
old, I'd say. I laid it down on the front section of yesterday, newspaper and
folded a part of the paper over its head—the white side up—and then I
took an old walking stick and I bashed the paper over the head as hard as
I could. Four times, just to make sure. It broke the old walking stick.

I though you’d want to know, because it was your cat, and you must
have loved it very much, for it always walked right in front, crisscrossing—
in a trusting, brushing sort of way, trying to get picked up and petted.

At least I thought you ought to know how it died. How two dogs in the
neighborhood, one a golden retriever, the other a red setter, had cornered
the cat by our front door, fought with it, and finally chewed through its backbone.

Oh, it fought hard and the cat-shrieks of terror woke me up. But the
dogs were too big, your cat too small, too young. So I did all I could think
of to put it out of its misery, as it lay there on the grass, wet, bleeding,
feces protruding, from fear or bite pressure or both, its eyes open, whining
gently. I had no choice.

But you did. Every year, literally scores of summer people leave their
cats by our house—hoping, I'm sure that they'll find a way, And most of
them do, for a while. I've seen as many as 30 cats over there, left off by
their loving owners who felt, I'm sure, that a dairy farm in the foothills of
the Berkshires was a perfect spot for a cat. In a way it is. For a while. But
cats procreate, and soon there are too many. And then one day there are
none, and I've never asked the farmer what happens to them. I care, but I
don't want to know.

And maybe you didn't want to know that I bludgeoned your kitten. All
you wanted to remember was the delight your children had with it, all
summer long, as it grew from an eyes-closed fluff to hesitant staggered to
pretended hunter. I'm sure you wanted to remember it curled up on the
end of a bed, with the shaft of sunlight warming its sweet-smelling fur.

But you can't remember only that, you know. Because life is a
continuum, and we can't escape the responsibility of our acts. You
enjoyed your cat, and your kids enjoyed your cat. And somehow you were
able to divorce the enjoyment from your responsibility. You may have
taught your children love and playfulness and the wonder of nature. But
you also taught them to throw away something that wasn't convenient,
that didn't fit in with your plans, or your landlord's plans.

You taught them to pass a responsibility on to others—who were
unknowing and unwilling. You convinced yourself—because you wanted
to—that your kitten would be happy and well feed on fresh cow's milk. I'm
sure you even rationalized yourself into believing that it would be better
off, really, with all those other cats.

No, I', not talking about one cat, your cat, which must have been loved
because it didn't do to the barn but across the road to our home to play
with our children (and our three cats). And that's where the dogs bit
though its spinal column. An where I had to bash its head in to relieve its
agony. Because you really didn't care enough. Or you wouldn't have done
it.

You wouldn't even have accepted the responsibility in the first place. If
you really had cared.

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 10:42

Oh, thanks for the advice, but it sounds gruesome. I'll never be able to bring myself to do it.

Morgan - 22-6-2011 at 11:06

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

Thanks, Morgan, but it's about killing a dog, not a human. There are probably many ways to do it, but I need to do it quickly and painlessly, because I don't have the heart to do it otherwise. I'll go check those links anyway.
Ooops, I watched only 7 mins of the first one and already freaked. That's why I dream of something simple, like pressing a button-and there goes my dog!
I was hoping CO would do the trick, but the whole topic of the thread just went away.
[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

Watch the last 7 minutes. I might like to die that way myself. You should try to save your dog if at all possible. And find an animal doctor, there must be one somewhere.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Morgan]

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 11:15

I definitely will, thankyou, but tomorrow. Now I really have go to sleep; Maybe it will provide some help. All the best, Morgan.

Morgan - 22-6-2011 at 11:29

Just a poem I ran across in a library a few years ago. Sad how life is sometimes, even for pets.
http://www.muttshack.org/2005/04/dogs-death-poem.html

Aura - 22-6-2011 at 22:17

Thanks, Morgan, I watched the last part and it seems the perfect way. The only problem is that it's well beyond my capabilities. I'd go to any length for the sake of my little pet, but I see no way to do it at home.

Aura - 23-6-2011 at 02:15

Time to close this thread, folks. Thank you all for your input. What I found out (to my dissapointment) is that CO won't help me with the job. And I'm not going to have him killed in a painful manner, like poison, etc.
Special thanks to woellen, who expertly explained to me the downside of every way to manufacture CO on a large scale. Best regards.

[Edited on 23-6-2011 by Aura]

Ramiel - 23-6-2011 at 04:53

Dogs skulls are much harder than cats too, I don't think you want to try bashing in your dear friend's head... what if you flinch and glance a blow or don't do enough damage to end it instantly... I pale to think about it.

Now I don't want you to think I'm some kind of animal torturing psychopath, but I've had to kill a number of animals out of mercy or necessity (lived on a farm, worked in an abattoir). Some animals are hard to end cleanly with violence, dogs included.

Aura - 23-6-2011 at 05:19

Truth is, the mere thought of applying violence makes me cringe. But I have to do something; I'll still look for a humane way-quick, no pain.

m1tanker78 - 23-6-2011 at 05:22

Do you have a pharmacy in your town?

bbartlog - 23-6-2011 at 06:26

Chemical means of killing may sound attractive as one pictures a fast-acting and painless poison, but the reality is that unless you have some fairly specialized drugs (morphine) or closely controlled conditions (IV with dosimeter), poison is not a good way to reliably kill something painlessly. Although it may seem violent and bloody, quick decapitation is really a better DIY way of killing things. I've killed crippled ducks and chickens with an axe (could have used a rifle but even a hollowpoint bullet in the area of the heart is slower than chopping off something's head).

The WiZard is In - 23-6-2011 at 06:41

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly.

Carbon dioxide is relatively humane. Don't know about dogs,
however, in humans when the CO2 tension reaches 3-5%(?)
it stimulates breathing. Put it in a comfortable box and then
put in some dry ice and wait 1/2 an hour or so to be sure.

NB - After death the dog may defecate put some newspaper down.

djh
----
In 1922 in New York, a device for the disposal of unwanted cats
was wrecked by an explosion. The cats were dropped into an iron
tank containing a lethal coal gas/air mixture. On one particular
day a fourth batch of cats included a particularly fierce black male
who clung to the basket in which he had been brought. This built
up static electrical charge on his body so that, when he was
eventually dislodged and fell through the opening to the tank, a
spark ignited the explosive mixture remaining in it. There was an
explosion and people from the office rushed in to find the three
executioners on the floor. Two were sent to hospital, one with a
possibly fractured skull, and all were more or less burned and
lacerated.

H.J. Yellop
Explsion Investigation.
The Forensic Science Society, 1980.

Morgan - 23-6-2011 at 10:28

http://www.theworldaroundyou.com/2004/09/28/man_almost_kille...

In this clip at the 42 minute mark the pigs dislike CO2 and opt for the N/Ar while eating apples.
What seems peculiar is that the scientist says breathing pure nitrogen will knock you out in 15 seconds and end your life one minute after that. Air being 78% nitrogen, you wouldn't think an extra 22% would be so fast acting?
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

Caution- Sad video on CO2 you might want to skip.
Viewer comment on nitrogen.
It definitely works.
Before some time I got bored in my lab during hot day and I set up the
stream of pure nitrogen from pressure flask against my face. I supposed
to enjoy the cold stream of gas like the stream of air from the fan,
but instead of it I suddenly woke up with my nose broken at the desk...
If I would keep some beaker or another laboratory glass on the table,
it would end in my eye without problem..
I've to admit, I didn't fell absolutely anything - I even didn't realized, when I did lost consciousness momentarily.
With compare to it, the stunning with carbon dioxide is far from
such a comfort, because carbon dioxide promoted breathing, not
inhibiting it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N082tXCac08

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Morgan]

ItalianChemist - 23-6-2011 at 11:00

couldn't be used a phenol injection?

Bot0nist - 23-6-2011 at 12:35

Yeah, right into its heart, like the Nazis did :mad:

Bet that feels nice.

I guess a general anesthetic followed by a paralytic and then a nice IV of KCl solution would do. Good enough for our convicts.

[Edited on 23-6-2011 by Bot0nist]

Morgan - 23-6-2011 at 16:09

From 4:30 to the ~10 minute mark, the documentary discusses the lethal injection method. The paralytic facet seems worrisome.
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Morgan]

Bot0nist - 23-6-2011 at 16:35

Yes, I agree about the paralytic effect in our lethal injection system. I saw on a "Bullshit" episode that a coroner did a study and found that a large percent of the inmates killed did not receive enough of the drug that renders them unconscious, so unfortunately after the paralytic was administered they could have been fully aware but completely unable to display any pain or fear. Gruesome. I think that method is meant to be easier on the executioner, not the executed.

Morgan - 23-6-2011 at 16:45

"Along with pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride, thiopental is used in 34 states of the U.S. to execute prisoners by lethal injection. A very large dose is given to ensure rapid loss of consciousness. Although death usually occurs within ten minutes of the beginning of the injection process, some have been known to take longer.[10] The use of sodium thiopental in execution protocols was challenged in court after a study in the medical journal The Lancet reported autopsies of executed inmates showed the level of thiopental in their bloodstream was insufficient to cause unconsciousness."

"On December 8, 2009, the State of Ohio became the first to use a single dose of sodium thiopental for its capital execution, following the failed use of the standard three-drug cocktail during a recent execution, due to inability to locate suitable veins. Kenneth Biros was executed using the single-drug method. Death was pronounced at 11:47 a.m., about ten minutes after the single-dose injection was administered. Including the time required to insert the IV lines and prepare the inmate, the entire process lasted 43 minutes.[11][12] Ohio executed a second man using sodium thiopental on January 7, 2010. Vernon Smith was pronounced dead eight minutes after the time of injection.[13] A third man was executed using the single-drug method on April 20, 2010. Daryl Durr was pronounced dead at 10:36 am.[14] Most recently, William Garner was executed in Ohio with sodium thiopental.[15]"

"The state of Washington is now the second state in the U.S. to use the single-dose sodium thiopental injections for death penalty executions. On September 10, 2010, Cal Coburn Brown was executed. His was the first execution in the state to use a single dose, single drug injection. His death was pronounced approximately one and a half minutes after the intravenous administration of five grams of the drug.[16]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Morgan]

CaliusOptimus - 23-6-2011 at 16:56

aura, im sorry to hear about your dog.

im glad however, that youve chosen to keep your pet's end as painless as possible.

oxygen deprivation sounds like the only way to go. a dog-sized plastic tub and some tape around the lid. i suppose the CO2 concentration might get unpleasant....but it would be minimal.

phlogiston - 23-6-2011 at 17:23

Because it is sometimes inevitable to kill a laboratoyr animal used for research purposes, it has been well studied what the most humane ways are to kill a given animal. You may be able to find out what the consensus is for dogs (or animals of similar size). Ofcourse, lacking proper aneastethics and tools, this may not be helpful.

I would never, ever take my own life whatever happens, but like many people I did think about what way I would prefer, and I guess the most painless way would be an explosive tied to the head. It would leave an awful mess to clean up, but it would be a very quick and probably painless way to go (I am a coward). Your brain/consiousnes is gone before the pain signal is processed.

Good luck and I hope you take the right decission

simba - 23-6-2011 at 18:46

Just drug your dog with ether or chloroform until hes gone. He will lose consciousness in a few minutes and will eventually die short after if you keep him breathing it.

If you use ether he will probably die of acute intoxication. If you use chloroform he will probably die from cardiac arrhythmia.

But in both cases, he will be fully unconsciousness and will feel no pain, just a little dizzy before he faints.

sternman318 - 23-6-2011 at 19:05

http://research.uiowa.edu/animal/?get=euthanasia#Dogs and Cats

hkparker - 23-6-2011 at 21:40

This is really an unfortunate thread...

If you really can't get professional help then CO2 is obviously the best. I agree with what the wizard is in said, place him in an box of some sort, possible with a loosely fitting top, and plastic so the CO2 wont leak out the bottom, and add dry ice (not touching his skin!!) or a CO2 canister thats slightly open

Ramiel - 24-6-2011 at 02:11

CO2 is what stimulates the physiological breathing reflex... your dog will be desperately gasping for air in the frantic last minutes (or seconds) of life, thrashing around and trying to escape to fresh air. Not a great idea.

I've heard many cautionary tales related to working with liquid nitrogen in the lab, including two people who died in a fridge within which was previously placed a full dewar of liquid nitrogen. They simply walked in, lost conciousness and obviously never walked out. Shocking that neither of them was able to escape even when the first lost conciousness - a testament to the stealth and speed with which this is supposed to work. Draw from this apocryphal tale what you will.

As for how I will go out if I am afflicted with dementia? Barbiturate/alcohol/opiate overdose.

LanthanumK - 24-6-2011 at 02:40

A N2 canister is better than a CO2 canister.

azo - 24-6-2011 at 02:52

Well i have only one thing to say, if i lived in a place that couldn't provide the most basics of services i think i would shoot my dog and myself.

I am glad i dont live there ! but then they say living in australia is the the best place on the planet

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 03:02

Actually, people, you should really appreciate your freedoms. If I lived in the US, I could just buy a gun and do it. Probably painful, but it won't take more than a sec for him to die. I can't do that here. This is exactly one of those places you were talking about, Azo.

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Aura]

azo - 24-6-2011 at 04:28

i not only feel so sorry about your dog but i also feel sorry for you to.

try and get out of that hell hole
yes i say it again after hearing about your story i don't think i will be winging about anything anymore, some times we become gready and don't relise how lucky we are.
I wish you the very best of luck

regards azo

The WiZard is In - 24-6-2011 at 05:39

Quote: Originally posted by Ramiel

CO2 is what stimulates the physiological breathing reflex... your dog will be desperately gasping for air in the frantic last minutes (or seconds) of life, thrashing around and trying to escape to fresh air. Not a great idea.

This is not true. It will die a peaceful death. Not like drowning
where it would be fighting to breath. This why people die
when the enter enclosed spaces with low O2 tensions,
don't even notice the lack of oxygen they just pass out-die.
Like putting a plastic bag over your head.

I would note in passing I shelve —

MP Battin & AG Lipman
Drug Use in Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia
Pharmaceutical Press
1996

djh
An single instance will serve to
display the rigor, and even
cruelty of Aurelian. On of his
soldiers had seduced the wife
of a his host. The guilty wretch
was fastened to two trees
forcible drawn toward each
other, and his limbs were torn
asunder by their sudden
Separation. The punishments
of Aurelian were terrible ; but he
had seldom occasion to punish
more than once the same offense.

Gibbons

entropy51 - 24-6-2011 at 06:20

Quote: Originally posted by Ramiel

I have observed lab rats euthanized with CO2 many times. There is no gasping or thrashing around. They just go to sleep. Euthanasia using CO2 is approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association.

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 06:30

OK, friends, Morgan's documentary persuaded me to try using nitrogen gas instead of CO to put the dog to sleep. Does anyone have any advice on how to get it, or maybe manufacture it at home-yes, it may sound silly but I'm a Math teacher with no knowledge of chemistry. I'd appreciate some advice. Thank you.

Bot0nist - 24-6-2011 at 06:39

Surely you could just buy a small canister of nitrogen, I highly doubt it's restricted in any way. Price isn't that bad either. If you can't get it locally, try an online vendor.

If not try dry ice. CO2 sounds promising.

ScienceHideout - 24-6-2011 at 07:04

Sorry about your dog.

For nitrogen, see if there are any welding stores near you. They usually rent out canisters of many different gases. They sometimes even have liquid nitrogen! However, If I were you, I would want something to work faster. Chloroform is a bit harder to obtain, but It is great. If you put it on a cotton ball in a jar, and drop a bug in there, the bug usually is deceased in a few seconds. All you have to do is put a wash cloth with chloroform on it over the dog's nose. It will not be a bit painful- and at first, the dog will be put into a deep sleep. I am not sure how long it would take him to pass away, but you might have to rehydrate the cloth every fifteen minutes until he is gone. Chloroform is a beautiful, sweet smelling liquid (smells good) that is inexpensive and usually easy to get. Becuase of its properties, it can not hurt you if absorbed through the skin, and I am not sure about ingestion, however, the fumes it releases were once used to anestisiate (sp?) someone before a medical procedure, and can be deadly if inhaled after a long period of time. Therefore, do this away from your family. The best part is, your dog will be able to pass away while smelling a sweet-smelling chemical. If you are unsure of how to obtain chloroform, you can look up how to make it. It is not hard, and because you are not needing it for chemistry, you don't have to purify it. I am no way obligating you to use this over nitrogen, however, if I was is your place, I would want chloroform. And again, sorry about your dog.

Bot0nist - 24-6-2011 at 07:47

Nitrogen would be very fast and a lot more comfortable than chloroform. Even diethyl ether would be better than chloroform even though it has a higher LD50 for inhalation. CHCl3 is a crappy anesthetic, only works good in the movies. Try it yourself, its nasty, uncomfortable, and twitchy.

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Bot0nist]

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 07:56

Chloroform is out of question anyway, because it's highly restricted. I'm searching online furiously right now for nytrogen and can't find a single welding store, tyre service, not even a paintball store.

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Aura]

The WiZard is In - 24-6-2011 at 08:01

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

like pressing a button-and there goes my dog!

“Recently I found another tale of rough life for mules in the army. It
was in the book "Facts Worth Knowing: Selected Mainly from the
Scientific American", published in 1893.”
***************************************************
Instantaneous Photography:

We are indebted to Gen. Henry L. Abbot, U.S.A., in charge of the
Engineer School of Application, Willet's Point, N. Y., for copies of
photographs illustrating the remarkable sensitiveness of photo-gelatine
plates, which we will briefly describe. It became necessary, one day,
at Willet's Point, to destroy a worthless mule, and the subject was
made the occasion of giving useful instruction to the military class
there stationed. The mule was placed in proper position before a
photo-camera and duly focused. Upon the animal's forehead a cotton bag
was tied containing six ounces of dynamite. The slide of the camera was
supported by a fuse; the camera fuse and the dynamite on the mule's
head being connected in the same electrical circuit, as shown by the
wires in our engraving. On pressing the key so as to send the
electricity through the wires both the fuse and the dynamite were
simultaneously fired; the camera slide and the head of the animal fell
nearly together. The photosensitive plate was impressed with a picture
of the headless creature, still standing, before its body had time to
fall.

Fig. 1 of our illustrations shows the animal, camera, and electrical
wires in position for firing. Fig. 2 shows the appearance of the animal
after the explosion, as taken on the photo-plate.

http://tinyurl.com/6agkwxs
http://tinyurl.com/6knxezv

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 08:07

Thanks, it is instructive, but I can't just order explosives at a store. I even thought of igniting a LPG cylinder (this is easy to get) somewhere in a remote area, but according to the specs, they are supposedly hard to detonate. It would rather burn the animal-gruesome. If that's what I wanted, I may as well pour gasoline on him, but hey, I'm not a torturer. It needs to be painless.

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Aura]

The WiZard is In - 24-6-2011 at 08:10

Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston

I would never, ever take my own life whatever happens, but like many people I did think about what way I would prefer, and I guess the most painless way would be an explosive tied to the head. It would leave an awful mess to clean up, but it would be a very quick and probably painless way to go (I am a coward). Your brain/consiousnes is gone before the pain signal is processed.

Figure 1

Victim propped against bedroom door
with extensive skull injuries and
avulsed brain. Note handle of hatchet
(arrow) wedged under door behind
the deceased.

Some years ago someone whose name I don't
have permission to use, and as I don't know
if this was published ..... Sent me a copy of
this for review/suggestions.

M-80 Fireworks Explosion: A Bizarre Case of Suicide.

----
JERRY NACHMAN
Bizarre is the norm if you're a coroner
[This a few years latter.]

MEDICAL examiners, like many other like many
members of a profession, meet at conventions each
year.

While the day's business is usually the presentation
of scientific papers, there is usually a nightly gabfest
in someone’s hotel suite. Coroners and medical
examiners from around the country screen slides of
their most unusual cases.

In a darkened hotel room, the slide projector's fan
- and the clink of ice in cocktail - glasses provide odd
background noise as the presenting doctor describes
0a case -- and the sometimes-subtle signs nature
chooses to reveal how a life ends. .

It was at one of these conventions in Chicago that I
saw a slide of a naked man on a stainless steel table.
The pathologist described the visible wounds.
Someone setting on - the floor asked if a magnet had
been applied to the coins found in the deceased's
clothing.

When the answer came back "yea" and the results
described as positive, the smiling doctors hem up
their glasses in salute: it seems that in serious
lightning strikes, the electrical charge can be so
strong as to magnetize all the metallic objects on the
victim's body, including non-magnetic items like coins.

This interchange of grisly trivia has contributed to
much of what we know about sex crimes, child abuse,
environmental hazards and heretofore unknown forms
of suicide.

And soon, thanks to the curiosity of three detectives
in the New York Police Dept., the medical literature
will have a horrible new entry.

This case began late last month in Queens, at 54th
St. and 31st Ave. informed police found the body of a
37year-old man in the courtyard of a residental
complex.

The victim's face had literally been blasted away:
Queens Homicide Detective Jim Curran tentative!
assessed the death as a shotgun homicide.

But there were loose ends. No visible exit wound
And some strange findings by Dr. Josette Montez the
Queens deputy medical examiner. A penny was found
in the victim's head, along with another foreign object
The longer you're a cop, the less willing you are to
accept the obvious. The veteran Curran had too many
questions He called the department’s Bomb Squad
and asked then to visit the scene.

Detectives Peter Dalton and Kevin Barry, not usually
partners, worked together on this case. They
reexamined the place where the body was found.
More pennies were on the ground. They widened the
search. Forty-five feet away they made a gruesome
discovery—a piece of a human lip. And yet more
pennies. Half a football field away—in the opposite
direction—a piece of an ear.

The bomb experts also found aluminum foil, a bit of
which had the impression of a penny etched on it.
They drew a map of the places they'd found tissue,
pennies, tape and foil. The lines intersected precisely
where the body was found.

It was time to meet with the medical examiner. They
looked at X-rays and measured holes in the mouth
and tongue. Calipers and metric rulers sized them at
the exact diameter of a penny.

Detective Barry exhaled and voiced his theory. The
victim had taken a Super M-80 firecracker,
surrounded it with loose pennies, wrapped it all in
aluminum foil and taped the package together.

He left the apartment in which he lived with his
father, went to the courtyard and placed the
homemade bomb—roughly the size of a small apple—
into his mouth and lit the fuse.

The detectives phoned the victim's brother. They
learned the victim had argued with his father shortly
before his body was found. The police received
permission to enter the apartment and found
aluminum foil and masking tape on the kitchen
counter, a collection of pennies in the deceased's
bedroom.

So in some Journal of forensic pathology to be
published soon, medical detectives will learn about a
new form of death—suicide-by fireworks—and shake
their heads in horror and wonder.

New York Post 6ix88

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 10:21

I couldn't find nitrogen anywhere. Still, I found another inert gas, helium for party baloons. Since it's about oxygen deprivation, will it do the trick, what do you think? A nice gas chamber to put my dog in (he's quite large). I dug up the internet and I read he'll be unconscious within seconds, painlessly.
But I'd rather ask you than trust wikipedia or other web sources.

[Edited on 24-6-2011 by Aura]

hkparker - 24-6-2011 at 12:07

Helium is lighter then air, and will leave the container. CO2 is heavier then air and will stay in.

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 12:18

First, helium is much easier for me to get and that's a MAJOR plus. Also, some say CO2 is painful. I'm just a layperson so I try to listen to every opinion and take no risks.

LanthanumK - 24-6-2011 at 12:43

Seal the contain if using He gas.

spotlightman1234 - 24-6-2011 at 13:01

Some brands of helium, like balloon time, have oxygen mixed in at about 20% to prevent children inhaling it from dying from asphyxiation. However, if you couldn't find nitrogen, helium is your best bet. Unlike carbon dioxide the body can't tell the difference between helium and air. If you have ever inhaled pure carbon dioxide I can tell you, it's just like the feeling you get when you burp after drinking a soda and it burns your nose, except all in your lungs. Carbon dioxide reacts water in equilibrium forming a small amount of carbonic acid. which is what gives you that burning sensation.

entropy51 - 24-6-2011 at 13:01

Helium will probably work if you can attain a high enough concentration, but since it is less dense than air it will fairly jump out of containers with leaks or openings.

Any of the asphyxiant gases would be more humane if you first administered a dose of sedative or sleeping pills to the animal. In fact, an overdose of such medications would be sufficient if used alone. There surely must be doctors wherever you live and a complaint of persistent insomia should easily produce a prescription for a sleeping pill which can be given to the dog wrapped in a favorite treat.

The American Veterinary Medical Association Guidelines on Euthanasia are here.

Aura - 24-6-2011 at 13:25

Quote: Originally posted by spotlightman1234

That's exactly what I was afraid of. That essentially makes it useless for euthanasia, I guess. How exactly is it then my best bet?

Morgan - 24-6-2011 at 16:22

I really think a doctor or vet would be the best bet for such a serious matter. That being said, here's a few things I ran across. As an aside, I remember once shelving this book entitled "Final Exit" but it was a large print edition, I guess for those whose eyesight was going. Oh!

I wonder if you didn't use a mask like in the video on euthanasia, if you would create big problems, drawing the oxygen starvation out slowly.
"Air Force trains air crews to recognize their individual subjective signs of approaching hypoxia. Some individuals experience headache, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, or euphoria, but some become unconscious without warning (Fisher n.d.). Equivalent training is unlikely for a condemned individual, making unconsciousness without warning probable, although as much as a 30 second warning is possible."
"Loss of consciousness may be accompanied by convulsions (Fisher n.d.) and is followed by cyanosis and cardiac arrest. About 7 minutes of oxygen deprivation causes death of the cerebral cortex and presumably the medulla oblongata, which controls breathing and heart action."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_asphyxiation

http://assistedsuicide.org/blog/2007/12/09/helium-hood-metho...
(I read all the comments, some informative insights)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag

[Edited on 25-6-2011 by Morgan]

simba - 24-6-2011 at 17:01

Quote: Originally posted by spotlightman1234

Some brands of helium, like balloon time, have oxygen mixed in at about 20% to prevent children inhaling it from dying from asphyxiation. However, if you couldn't find nitrogen, helium is your best bet. Unlike carbon dioxide the body can't tell the difference between helium and air. If you have ever inhaled pure carbon dioxide I can tell you, it's just like the feeling you get when you burp after drinking a soda and it burns your nose, except all in your lungs. Carbon dioxide reacts water in equilibrium forming a small amount of carbonic acid. which is what gives you that burning sensation.

Even so, in a gas chamber it will work just the same...after the oxygen has been consumed the helium will do the job.

spotlightman1234 - 24-6-2011 at 17:07

Quote: Originally posted by shivas

Quote: Originally posted by spotlightman1234

Ahh I hadn't thought of that. Thank you.

Even so, in a gas chamber it will work just the same...after the oxygen has been consumed the helium will do the job.

spotlightman1234 - 24-6-2011 at 17:20

woops my n00bness is showing.

Morgan - 24-6-2011 at 17:35

Some Balloon Time tidbit, I don't know if the info is correct or not.
Again, a vet or doctor for your dog is what you should strive to find.
http://suicideproject.org/2011/05/helium-dilluted-with-air/

[Edited on 25-6-2011 by Morgan]

AJKOER - 24-6-2011 at 19:10

While I do not approve of what you are doing, if you are pushed (pray with your dog before), give him a full bottle of cold medicine (read the label, found the one with appropriate warning label). He will just go to sleep. I know of at least one American movie star who died young because of an accidental over dose, so believe that warning label!

God Bless.

P.S. If it does't work, you may just cure him!

[Edited on 25-6-2011 by AJKOER]

Bot0nist - 24-6-2011 at 19:53

Appropriate warning label? If you are talking NyQuil or the like I don't think that would be a good idea. OTC pharms like acetaminophen, ibuprofen, and antihistamines will have a drastically different effect on a canine than it would on a person. Many will cause a prolonged, agonizing poisoning. Maybe an cough syrup containing an opiate antitussive would do, but I still wouldn't think it would be the best route. And forcing it to ingest it could be torturous in its own right.

"P.S. If it doesn't work, you may just cure him!" What??? I am not sure if you mean the medicine or the spirituality, but in either case I highly doubt it will reverse the aging dogs condition. A nice thought, but not scientifically, or statistically backed.

[Edited on 25-6-2011 by Bot0nist]

Morgan - 25-6-2011 at 07:33

I have to wonder if common nitrogen tanks also have some irritant, odorant, impurity or other trace gas to thwart accidental or intentional asphixiation - a "bitrex" of the pressurized gas realm?
When I was watching the video on the death penalty exploring the ways to end a life humanely, the one method that works the best seemed the obvious choice, well known in certain circles, and yet it didn't quite ring true, as if there were some haunting/nagging no free lunch mystery as to why if it is so perfect why is it so rare or unused in the penal system? I don't see why the least painful, least failure prone, simple method would be discarded.

spotlightman1234 - 25-6-2011 at 12:46

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan

I have to wonder if common nitrogen tanks also have some irritant, odorant, impurity or other trace gas to thwart accidental or intentional asphixiation - a "bitrex" of the pressurized gas realm?
When I was watching the video on the death penalty exploring the ways to end a life humanely, the one method that works the best seemed the obvious choice, well known in certain circles, and yet it didn't quite ring true, as if there were some haunting/nagging no free lunch mystery as to why if it is so perfect why is it so rare or unused in the penal system? I don't see why the least painful, least failure prone, simple method would be discarded.

I highly doubt that there would be any kind of bittering agent in any nitrogen tanks sold for lab use, especially since nitrogen isn't abused like other common inhalants.

Morgan - 25-6-2011 at 19:39

"Workers who have survived these episodes describe a funny feeling where they can take a deep breathe and yet they still feel like they're suffocating."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs

Most likely even a short exposure to pure nitrogen would cause some brain damage.
"Inhaling the pure nitrogen, patients lose consciousness immediately (in approximately 12 seconds)[8] and die a few minutes later."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device

Aura - 26-6-2011 at 08:44

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan

Very good point as usual. Thanks again, Morgan. I have a question (maybe silly): can an usual LPG container be refilled with nitrogen?

Morgan - 1-7-2011 at 07:12

Tidbit
Company restricts death penalty drug
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0701/break...
http://www.france24.com/en/20110701-danish-firm-prevent-use-...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentobarbital

[Edited on 1-7-2011 by Morgan]

The WiZard is In - 1-7-2011 at 10:34

Quote: Originally posted by Aura

Very good point as usual. Thanks again, Morgan. I have a question (maybe silly): can an usual LPG container be refilled with nitrogen?

Propane tanks have unique to propane tanks - valves. I doubt
you can find a commercial source that can/will refill one.

Perhaps you can find a old CO2 fire extinguisher.

textex - 1-7-2011 at 17:04

Just use some co2. Easy to get, and humane. As for drugs, a ethyl alcohol overdose might work to? Shouldnt be that uncomfortable.

But i kind of think that you are trolling though. In rich "sivilized" countries we have vets that can do it, an in an eastern europeans country i bet you have a mobster, cop, guard, hunter etc that will use his gun and do it for a few bucks.

You should also consider the stress the animal has to go trough when you prepare for the task, aswell with the possible pain the method itself will cause.

[Edited on 2-7-2011 by textex]

Grebulocities - 31-3-2014 at 23:13

Now I know it's been over three years and the poor dog has presumably died some way or another, but I wanted to bump this thread because I used this method to euthanize my pet rat, who was old (2.5 years) and suffering from a tumor nearly as large as she was, which appeared very painful based on the amount of time she spent chirping. Mammary tumors like that are common in old female rats; they can be removed surgically but usually return rapidly and 2.5 years is about the life expectancy of a pet rat in the first place, so euthanasia seemed to be the best option. Since very high CO concentrations can be reached rapidly in confined areas, this seemed to be a humane way to go about it, especially when compared to cardiac injections and other methods often used by vets on small animals.

I obtained 950 mL each of 95% HCOOH and 98% H2SO4 from a chemical supply company. The total cost including shipping was about $37 and it arrived in two days. I bought a 2-gallon airtight container and taped up a plastic 100 mL graduated cylinder, to which I added about 30 mL H2SO4. The cylinder's top was high enough that my rat couldn't reach the top and get into the acid. I put in some shavings and chocolate chips (even rodents deserve a last meal!). I picked up my rat and put her in the container, then took everything outside so as not to release CO indoors. Finally I drew up 6 mL of HCOOH into a syringe, closed the lid most of the way, added the HCOOH, and immediately closed the lid.

She acted fairly normally for about a minute, then paused briefly. Then there were several deep gasps and squeaks, so there was obviously some discomfort (maybe from HCOOH vapor?). This lasted at most a minute before she stopped moving; her final breath was at about 2.5 minutes by my watch. I left her there for about half an hour, then opened the lid to vent for another half hour, and finally retrieved her body. Her skin, and the tumor especially, was cherry-red, a sign of extreme CO poisoning. I put her body in a box and buried her in the backyard.

I later did a little experiment involving a little 0.1 g scale and the same reaction. I went out to the deck, measured out 87.5 g H2SO4 and 11.5 g HCOOH, similar to the ratio I used for the euthanasia, added the HCOOH to the H2SO4 (on the scale) while holding my breath, and quickly ran inside to a window where I could see the scale readings. 11.5 g HCOOH --> 7.0 g CO + 4.5 g H2O, so the max. yield was 7.0 g. The scale showed a loss of 1.3 g (19%) by 18 seconds after HCOOH addition and 2.4 g (34%) by the time the scale switched off at 78 seconds. Using 7 g HCOOH -> 4.3 g CO (max) gives me a CO concentration of around 8% by 18 s and 15% by 78 s in a 7.5 L container at room temperature, if I did my math right.

So this is indeed a very effective and quick, if perhaps not totally painless, euthanasia method for small pets. I would strongly advise against using it on a dog or other medium-sized pet, however - the safety risks are way too high. Mixing the whole 950 mL of HCOOH with the H2SO4 is more than enough to kill a human within 3 minutes in an enclosed space such as a car, let alone a dog. I'll admit I was sort of bothered by how effective it would be as a suicide method, if that was what the OP was really going for. Hopefully not...

edit: minor fixes

[Edited on 1-4-2014 by Grebulocities]

Praxichys - 1-4-2014 at 05:59

You guys sound like you're taking lessons from Mr. Himmler.

I used to test the effect of chloroform and various solvents on insects and arachnids when I was younger. I imagine a cotton rag with diethyl ether or chloroform might help sedate the subject first, followed by an unconscious gassing with CO or H2S (if you don't mind the stink!) or even a solid whack with an axe if you have a solid stump and good aim. Drowning while unconscious is another option.

But, honestly, here in the good old USA a pound of tannerite and a well-placed rifle shot takes care of both the euthanasia and the scattering of the remains.

-Prax

Steam - 1-4-2014 at 07:11

Make some ricin out of castor beans? Joke!

When it comes to killing something painlessly I would recommend just ethylene glycol (antifreeze). But it will take about 72 hours ish. If you don't want to wait, try using NyQuil and OD him.

If I were you I would sedate him with chloroform and just shoot him in the back of the head.

macckone - 1-4-2014 at 08:23

Ethylene glycol poisoning is not painless. It forms oxalic acid crystals in the kidneys and leads to kidney failure. As someone who has kidney stones, I would call it a good way to kill someone or something you want to suffer intensely. Definitely not painless.

aga - 1-4-2014 at 10:44

Apparently a 100% Nitrogen environment yields the 'nicest' death.

Nitrogen Narcosis (in humans) is analgous to being drunk, really happy, then dead. No idea what a dog will feel.

My two-pence is that the worst thing you can do to a living creature is to Kill it.

How you do it is more down to how you will feel afterwards : for the unfortunate victim, the end result is the same.

Grebulocities - 2-4-2014 at 00:06

Not that I've ever tried it, but ethylene glycol poisoning would be a very slow and painful death, and its time to death is ridiculous: 2-3 days compared to 2-3 minutes for very high concentrations of CO in an enclosed container. That sort of thing would just be animal cruelty.

Another option which may be humane (and also would work best on small pets) is a large amount of straight chloroform in an enclosed space, ideally with something like wire mesh to separate the animal from the liquid CHCl3. It should be fatal at high enough concentrations, and would cause unconsciousness very rapidly.

There seems to be some debate in the literature about whether pure N2 or Ar, CO2, or CO is the best way to euthanize an animal by gas. CO2 seems to be preferred because it's easiest to obtain and appears to sedate the animal rapidly in concentrations greater than 30% or so. But it's also the gas that triggers pain and the feeling of suffocation, so there's a risk of that. CO is attractive because it takes much lower concentrations to cause rapid death (so you don't have to worry about getting rid of the O2 first) and should just cause death by hypoxia without the animal feeling like it's suffocating, although (as I saw) it still seems to cause some brief distress. Even pure N2 or Ar seem to cause a bit of distress - I suspect hypoxia itself causes some awareness of danger before loss of consciousness even without the CO2 signal. But all four kill very rapidly and about as painlessly as possible.

Just so everyone knows, the OP was from 2011, so presumably the dog in the OP is now dead somehow. I bumped the thread to add my $0.02 after euthanizing my rat this way and finding it to be fairly humane.

[Edited on 2-4-2014 by Grebulocities]

Chris Docker - 26-4-2015 at 11:12

Dear science experimenters,

This sort of touches on my area so I thought I'd pop in in case my comments can be of any help.

Any inert gas is equally effective. Helium and Nitrogen are the most obvious candidates as they do not react chemically (although there is a possibility of minor biological reaction). They are not toxic, and when used for euthanasia cause no distress. They can be breathed normally. This is not scientifically controversial. (I've covered this at length in my books.) Carbon dioxide, a major constituent of exhaled air, causes distress by triggering hyperventilation (the distress is minor if sufficient life-sustaining oxygen is quickly obtained, otherwise it can be considerable, causing feelings of suffocation). Carbon monoxide, the major constituent of car exhaust fumes in the period of history before catalytic converters, is toxic. It will cause death in sufficient quantities and brain damage in slightly less quantities.

The majority of helium sold domestically as balloon gas has been reasonably pure (98% in tests) for many years with occasional exceptions. Balloon Time have recently said that all their balloon gas will from April 2015 however will be 20% air and 80% helium.

I am wary of the advisability of discussing methods of potential suicide online (I don't do it). Pointing out what won't work though is not likely to cause any problems. Hope this helps. There's some links to a few relevant scientific papers at the end of the current post (April 25th) of my blog if anyone is interested. Kind regards.