Sciencemadness Discussion Board

HNS the only explosive to make it to the moon

The WiZard is In - 18-7-2011 at 11:21

HNS/Teflon (90/10) is a new [1973] pressed explosive developed
for use in the APOLLO program........


Attachment: Moon explosive 1.pdf (1.1MB)
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Attachment: Moon explosive 2.pdf (1.2MB)
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djh
----
…Through the nominative diarrhea of the solar system may
have gone a little far, a well-chosen name is both
picturesque and memorable. Perhaps, therefore, it is time
to change the convention and give such a name to an
extrasolar planet. [Kepler-10b] And an ideal candidate has
just turned up—one that matches one of astronomy’s own
myths: the legendary, non-existent planet Vulcan.

…smallest extrasolar planet yet discovered. Its diameter is a
mere 1.4 times that of Earth, though it weighs 4.6 terrestrial
masses.

…its high mass probable means it is made of iron, an
appropriate material for a planet named after a divine
smith.

The Economist
15i11

Bot0nist - 18-7-2011 at 18:16

You seem to contradict yourself in regards to <a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17012#pid216141">this post</a>, unless I'm mistaken.

The Wizard is In said, "PLX is only used where its unique characteristic is useful,
the first (only) explosive used on the moon..."

The WiZard is In - 18-7-2011 at 18:54

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
You seem to contradict yourself in regards to <a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17012#pid216141">this post</a>, unless I'm mistaken.

The Wizard is In said, "PLX is only used where its unique characteristic is useful,
the first (only) explosive used on the moon..."



Granted it was poorly written. I should have made a second
sentence rather then using a comma.

Ozone - 18-7-2011 at 20:12

I was annoyed by the use of unspecified acronym.

HNS appears to be hexanitrostilbene: http://neyersoftware.com/Papers/AIAA2003/AIAA2003-5138--HNS-...

I found the Perkin Elmer connection of interest.

Cheers,

O3

The WiZard is In - 19-7-2011 at 07:01

Quote: Originally posted by Ozone  
I was annoyed by the use of unspecified acronym.

HNS appears to be hexanitrostilbene: http://neyersoftware.com/Papers/AIAA2003/AIAA2003-5138--HNS-...


I was annoyed by the use of unspecified acronym.

Forsooth I think you doth protest toooo much.

HNS like TNT, PETN, RDX, PLX, HNDPhA, &c., &c., are de rigueur
anachronisms — long used and widely accepted.

When Id comes acoross a Whatthefuckisit explosive —
e.g., TFENA, THPhBuNA, TMENT, TNTMNA, &c., &c. I turn to
the ever useful Meyers Explosives. You can DL a copy of
the latest ed. 6th, or buy a hard copy.

ISBN [English Ed.] 978-3-527-31656-4

Amazon - http://tinyurl.com/3derb4h

Hawkguy - 14-8-2015 at 19:58

Does anyone know the synthesis for HNS? The best I've found is the oxidation of TNT to yield it, but with limited knowledge on HNS properties, I would find it difficult to impossible to properly separate and identify the product.

Things that would be useful would be melting point and solubility in different solvents.

kecskesajt - 14-8-2015 at 21:39

http://www.google.hu/url?q=https://miningandblasting.files.w... Maybe.
If you don't thrust this book,make your own calculations.

Hawkguy - 15-8-2015 at 09:49

Thanks, much appreciated

franklyn - 15-8-2015 at 10:02

This compound is very well studied. Found these by googling Hexanitrostilbene. There are many more.

Application of Hexanitrostilbene ( HNS ) in Explosive Componenets
www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/4666790

Detonating Cords filled with Hexanitrostilbene ( HNS ) Recrystallized from Acid or Organic Solvents
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a019918.pdf

Equation of State for the Detonation Products of Hexanitrostilbene at Various Charge Densities
www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/7347697

Equations of State of Hexanitrostilbene ( HNS )
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/proceeding/aipcp/10.1063/1.3686344

Determination of Critical Energy Criteria for Hexanitrostilbene Using Laser-driven Flyer Plates
www.researchgate.net/publication/253225956_Determination_of_Critical_Energy_Criteria_for_Hexanitrostilbene_Using_Laser-driven_Flyer_Plates

greenlight - 15-8-2015 at 10:27

Looks like PETN is going to slowly get phased out by the military due to safety standards.

Found a short review on synthesis of HNS from TNT with amounts/temps/etc...
Seems it gets a little tricky in the second step when converting to the final product.
I wonder if it could be improvised at home?;)

http://www.dissertationtopic.net/doc/1697479

[Edited on 15-8-2015 by greenlight]

PHILOU Zrealone - 18-8-2015 at 09:01

In principle HNS should be obtainable by condensation of TNT and of Trinitrobenzaldehyde with mild basic catalyst.

Formaldehyde / alkaline carbonate and TNT do condense to form:
CH3-C6H2(NO2)3 + CH2=O -base-> HO-CH2-CH2-C6H2(NO2)3 + H2O
CH3-C6H2(NO2)3 + 2 CH2=O -base-> (HO-CH2-)2CH-C6H2(NO2)3 + 2 H2O
The reaction doesn't go further with a third equivalent of formol because of steric hindrance...so no trimethylol-TNT.

Based on this the highly reactive trinitrobenzaldehyde (or lower nitrated variant) should add to TNT.
(O2N)3C6H2-CH3 + O=CH-C6H2(NO2)3 -base-> (O2N)3C6H2-CH2-CH(OH)-C6H2(NO2)3
(O2N)3C6H2-CH2-CH(OH)-C6H2(NO2)3 -heat/or spontaneous-> (O2N)3C6H2-CH=CH-C6H2(NO2)3 + H2O

Alternatively discrete form of TNBenzaldehyde could be used instead--> alfa-alfa-dichloro-TNT (Cl2CH-C6H2(NO2)3)

This explains the oxydative or chloro-oxydative process on TNT allow a synthetic pathway to HNS.

And just because I like this claim from famous Will Smith:
"When shooting for the Moon, you may land to be a Star!" :D

[Edited on 19-8-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Hawkguy - 19-8-2015 at 10:37

Here is a procedure I found, from Soldier's Handbook, Volume 1 by Jared Ledgard, and also in US Patent 4626606.

50 grams of 2, 4, 6 – Trinitrotoluene is dissolved in 500 millilitres of Tetrahydrofuran. 250 millilitres of Methanol is added. With stirring, the mixture is cooled to 0 degrees Celsius. When cool, 500 millilitres of pre chilled 5% Sodium Hypochlorite solution is quickly added. The reaction beaker is removed from cooling, and allowed to warm up to room temperature with stirring, over the course of an hour. A precipitate will begin to form. The mixture is then cooled again in an ice bath for three hours to fully precipitate the product. The product is washed with Methanol and Acetone, and then dried at 90 degrees Celsius until fully dehydrated.

Marvin - 25-8-2015 at 09:04

You mean US Patent 3505413 I assume.
Ledgard is a fantasist. That said he doesn't seem to have done much to the Shipp method other than scale it up and skip some purification steps. The later patent does note it precipitates with a lot of crap.

He does fail to mention in the hazards section that the reaction produces some chloropicrin as a byproduct.

Hawkguy - 25-8-2015 at 12:46

I have noticed a few boo boos with a lot of Ledgards work. Mostly stuff like: that reaction would make that, but...

kecskesajt - 26-8-2015 at 00:01

This is why I said: If you dont thrust this book...
Also the ETN synthesis:Keep the reaction temp. under 50 degree C :o
So I can keep it at 40 C°? No way.