Exotic Primaries - Complex Salts

Quote: Originally posted by Microtek

@Mineman: The modified CoCP+ was considerably less sensitive than any NAP batch I have tried, and as such was quite promising. However, there are two problems with it: Reproducibility and toxicity. The complexes react when they come into wet contact with something that is able to act as a ligand, and some of the ligands (carbohydrazide) in the CoCP are probably exchanged for NT, or maybe some of the perchlorate ions are. Maybe polymeric complexes are formed. The point is that it is difficult to achieve the same properties every time. I don't quite remember the Chinese paper (was it maybe ICM-something?), but at any rate I haven't tried it. @Axt: I wonder about the quoted minimum charge to initiate PETN. They do state a minimum of about 200mg, but only describe testing 200 and 300 mg charges. I haven't yet tried [Fe(4-ATRI)n](ClO4)3 complex using iron(III)perchlorate. I just dissolved the calculated amount of FeCl3 and NaClO4 in ethanol and made another soln of 4-ATRI also in ethanol. On adding the first to the second (dropwise), a precipitate was formed. It changed character from a dull brown to blood red over time, and I let it stir for about another hour after addition. It dried to a nice brick red free flowing powder. The sensitivity is not very high and it behaves much like NHN. It is quite soluble in water, so I need to try it with Fe(ClO4)3 to avoid the NaCl impurity.

Quote: Originally posted by Microtek

I didn't systematically test the sensitivity of UZP, but it was quite sensitive. IIRC, a little more sensitive than PETN, though the nature of its reaction when it goes could make it seem more sensitive in my minds eye. I could have worked around it if it wasn't for the hygroscopicity and also the problematic preparation due to the combination of low basicity and low solubility of urazine.

I see, isn’t it worth it if it is the most powerful energetic? There are ways around the hydroscopic nature . I do recall your experiment of HMX with triaminoguanadine produced higher det pressures… but I also recall the UP, despite its sensitivity had issues with critical diameter, limiting its brisance which should be explored further. Have you come across any new promising energetics that can compete against those two?

Quote: Originally posted by Axt

It's a salt of "Tz-FOX", essentially FOX-7 with a tetrazole moiety replacing one of the nitro's. It's not a trivial preparation; you will find its potassium salt in older literature that is accessible through sci hub. If you track it back the starting compound is 4,6-Dichloro-5-nitropyrimidine bought commercially ($500 for 25g).

Thank you for this Information. 20 Dollar per gram precursor, final product probably expensive as gold, that"s out of my financial possibilities.

Quote: Originally posted by Microtek

I recently read a paper about a promising primary that was easy to prepare from "inexpensive commercially available materials". When I looked the precursor up it was priced at right around 1000 euro for 25g, even in China or India. @MineMan: It turned out the critical diameter issue was a function of crystal size. Due to the way I made the UZP (heating equivalent amounts of urazine and perchloric acid to dryness), fairly large crystals were formed. I tested the mechanical sensitivity of UZP when wet with gasoline, and deemed it reasonably safe to grind like this in small portions (0.1 g at a time). When I tested the ground material, it worked just fine in 7 mm coloumns. If you have ideas to get around the hygroscopicity, I would love to hear them. I tried a number of solutions myself, but didn't find anything that worked.

Alkoholvergiftung.......Have you tried making anything yet? Or is it just theorizing about ammonium thiocyanate?.....

Not made yet. Ammoniumthiocyanat is ordered . It isnt only theory it seems they used it in some blasting caps bevore ww1.The other sulfo compounds would be better but heavier to make.Storage stable up to 100C. Persulfocyan wold be the simpelst and it was used as an yellow colour name Kanarin maybe it is somewhere aviable.

I am curious for first resuts.......Beware on 10 fingers,,,,,

Silver styphnate?

Quote: Originally posted by Axt

This threads getting off track, it's meant to be specific to complex salts. That bi-imidazole is worthy of its own thread, its downside is its pathetic yield.

Gallium DMSO Perchlorate is more vehemic than the iron salt analogue, flashes quite violently on ignition almost resembling NHN. Made the same way, Ga(ClO4)3 precipitated from acetone solution with DMSO.

I ignited it on Al foil to see if it affected it, it didn't seem to.


[Edited on 22-3-2025 by Axt]

The patent with the Ammoniumthiocyanat and Coppersulfate doesnt work i couldnt isolate any Copperammoniumthocyanat. It should form blass blue needles. I got only crystals like from tetrammoniumcoppersulfate. I tried purification with EtOH no sucess. If you dont use ammoniusolution and react ammoniumthiocyanat directly with Coppersulfate it forms metallic copper powder.