Sciencemadness Discussion Board

How to dispose of unknown chemical waste?

seashell1982 - 21-2-2012 at 18:44

I've been trying to form KCN at home and the result is an unkown black glob of mess. How do I dispose of this stuff? The ingredients are potassium ferrocyanide, potassium carbonate, and carbon.

Endimion17 - 21-2-2012 at 21:20

Dump it in the village water well. :D

If there's a handful of the stuff, and it isn't a cumulative poison, it can go down the drain if you use a lot of water. It's not like that's going to harm anyone.

If there's lots of it, or it's cumulative (heavy metal, nasty pesticides), and the official disposal is expensive, you can always evaporate the water (if possible) and place it in a bottle, wrap the bottle in thick iron wire and entomb it in a concrete block. Or you can mix the solids with the actual concrete and some wire and let it harden. Then throw the nasty block in one of those big dumpsters for large waste like washing machines.
The concrete matrix will keep the nasty stuff inside for a few centuries. It's poor man's vitrification. :)

Of course, if you ever become a big time boss in a chemical company, working with tons of material, don't do it. Be responsible.

[Edited on 22-2-2012 by Endimion17]

AndersHoveland - 22-2-2012 at 01:55

Mix in some bleach to oxidize away any potential cyanide that may have formed.

[Edited on 22-2-2012 by AndersHoveland]

Ephoton - 22-2-2012 at 06:07

"Potassium ferrocyanide can be used as a fertilizer for plants"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_ferrocyanide

Potassium cyanide is already found in nature
Potassium carbonate is potash
and carbon is not a problem.

mix with water dig hole and water away.

fill hole and pick your favorite plant that you want to go absolutly nuts.

The plant should love that shit dont waist it and dont make more waist by adding more chems to it.

make sure the plant you plant is one that likes alkaline soils :)


[Edited on 22-2-2012 by Ephoton]

woelen - 22-2-2012 at 23:21

The waste is not that dangerous. I would either make it very fine and rinse it away through the toilet with a lot of water. If there is a lot of this kind of water, the other option is making a solid of it through evaporation and putting it in a plastic bag in the household waste. The only metal in it is iron and that is not considered a long term persistent risk and if there is any cyanide in it, it will be decomposed in contact with air and water very quickly (days at most) or it will be completely destroyed by fire when it is in the household waste.

neptunium - 23-2-2012 at 11:54

for small quantity of not so toxic stuff i wouldnt even worry about it ...down the drain it goes...
but heavy metal compound (who is getting rid of mercury ??)
highly radio active material (probably not a home scientist though) or higly toxic chemicals would be extremely tricky to dispose of..
i mean how would you even go about calling the EPA and tell them you have to dispose of 20 ml of dimethyl mercury from your garage???
i remember burning a liter of nitrobenzen with gasoline once !
but i donated some uranium acetate to a university...

AirCowPeaCock - 23-2-2012 at 12:33

How'd they like that? No questions asked, just--"Thanks!"?

neptunium - 23-2-2012 at 12:51

i was working with a teacher there on my element collection...she knew me ,we had work together, it was before 9/11 etc....good old days!

Endimion17 - 23-2-2012 at 13:33

Quote: Originally posted by neptunium  
for small quantity of not so toxic stuff i wouldnt even worry about it ...down the drain it goes...
but heavy metal compound (who is getting rid of mercury ??)
highly radio active material (probably not a home scientist though) or higly toxic chemicals would be extremely tricky to dispose of..
i mean how would you even go about calling the EPA and tell them you have to dispose of 20 ml of dimethyl mercury from your garage???
i remember burning a liter of nitrobenzen with gasoline once !


When in doubt - CONCRETE. Nothing beats concrete entombing. Seal the shit in a concrete brick and stamp a skull symbol in it while it's still fresh. Then just throw it somewhere where it won't be bothered. If someone finds it after few hundred years, oh well. He's got the skull symbol staring at him. It's his problem if he's dumb enough to open a fucking solid concrete brick.
Quote:

but i donated some uranium acetate to a university...


Sorry, but that's just stupid. Uranium reagents are made with U-238. It's very weakly radioactive and the greatest danger comes from it being a heavy metal salt.
If it's closed in a decent bottle, it won't do you harm. You can even put it behind a lead plate if you really spend much time in its vicinity (in that case, other chemicals pose more threat).

I'd understand if it was cobalt, radium, technetium or tritium compounds, but U-238? Why, oh god, why? :D

neptunium - 23-2-2012 at 17:50

dont remind me !:(
when i think of all the chemicals and equipment i used to have it makes me sick ..

why? because i couldnt take it with me ! i moved far away and didnt think it was a good idea to ship it by air along with a lot of other chemicals...i hate it but i had to get rid of my first lab!

had white and red phosphorus too! and a good 15lbs of mercury..

[Edited on 24-2-2012 by neptunium]

[Edited on 24-2-2012 by neptunium]

Panache - 27-2-2012 at 07:46

Quote: Originally posted by RisingSun96815  
How to dispose of unknown chemical waste?


Step 1 Convert your unknown waste into known waste
Step 2 Get a quote for its disposal.
Step 3 Save for eighty years
Step 4 Dispose

Who says you need ten steps!

neptunium - 27-2-2012 at 09:57

get a quote? do you know how much they charge for even 1 gallon of unsuable diessel fuel? i dont know about anyone else but i am a home scientist...understand NO MONEY!

Endimion17 - 27-2-2012 at 10:16

Quote: Originally posted by neptunium  
dont remind me !:(
when i think of all the chemicals and equipment i used to have it makes me sick ..

why? because i couldnt take it with me ! i moved far away and didnt think it was a good idea to ship it by air along with a lot of other chemicals...i hate it but i had to get rid of my first lab!

had white and red phosphorus too! and a good 15lbs of mercury..


For some reason, the post I wrote is gone.
My condolences. I hope you at least got some money for it.

Dr.Bob - 27-2-2012 at 11:59

According to the chemists of Max Gergel's era, "The solution to pollution is dilution."

So for small amounts of material, I agree with the other above. If you have anything that is organic and nasty, you could mix it into some other related consumer household waste and take it to a local "Household Hazardous Waste collection" site (we have them here sometimes) and let them deal with it. For instance, our area collects mercury thermometers and other related items, so you could probably give them a few ounces of mercury no problem. But if you show up with a 80 pound bottle, they might get a bit worried.

But I have seen pesticides, pool chemicals, photographic chemicals, and others dropped off OK. So if you have used DCM, and you obtained it from a bottle of paint stripper, you could probably put it back into the empty original bottle and say it is used paint stripper. That would all be true, and they will likely burn it with other halogenated waste. My biggest problem is that I usually would like to haul away some of the stuff people have turned in for disposal. I have seen some very valuable chemicals disposed of that way.

Bot0nist - 27-2-2012 at 12:02

Yeah, i once saw a ton of devices for measuring blood pressure. They were all full of Hg! They wouldn't let me have any though. :( What a waste.

Neil - 27-2-2012 at 16:45

Quote: Originally posted by Panache  
Quote: Originally posted by RisingSun96815  
How to dispose of unknown chemical waste?


Step 1 Convert your unknown waste into known waste
Step 2 Get a quote for its disposal.
Step 3 Save for eighty years
Step 4 Dispose

Who says you need ten steps!


:D

Also recycle. If you are doing chemistry and not just mixing things at random then you should have a general idea of what you have in your waste, unless its experimental organic chem then you're up a murky brown tar creek.

neptunium - 27-3-2012 at 04:37

true! some chemicals are hughly toxic to wildlife (like fish) and even greatly disolved a few ppm can produce massive killing...research and knowledge can save you alot of trouble and money with the EPA..these guys dont play!

frenchemist - 31-3-2012 at 03:15

Quote: Originally posted by RisingSun96815  
I've been trying to form KCN at home and the result is an unkown black glob of mess. How do I dispose of this stuff? The ingredients are potassium ferrocyanide, potassium carbonate, and carbon.


You'd better use bleach. If some cyanide will have form, it will be destroy. There is no other side reaction with compounds such as K2CO3 or carbon.
Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
I'd understand if it was cobalt, radium, technetium or tritium compounds, but U-238? Why, oh god, why? :D


Natural cobalt isn't radioactive.

[Edited on 31-3-2012 by frenchemist]

Endimion17 - 31-3-2012 at 03:32

Quote: Originally posted by frenchemist  
Natural cobalt isn't radioactive.


Judging by the mentioned set of elements, it was pretty obvious I was talking about the radioisotope...

frenchemist - 31-3-2012 at 05:48

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
Judging by the mentioned set of elements, it was pretty obvious I was talking about the radioisotope...


Sorry for never understanding ^^ my english is sometimes weak... But it's not very easy to find cobalt radioisotopes... except in cancer treatment.

seashell1982 - 27-5-2012 at 06:39

I also have some left over potassium ferrocyanide that was K4[Fe(CN)6] ยท 3H2O that I heated in an attempt to make potassium ferrocyanide anhydrous. The color turned lighter, so it may have become anhydrous, but I'm not really sure what it definitely is. I actually got sick from this process, so I'm a little leery of whatever it is, but want to dispose of it. How should I dispose of this chemical?

Roger86 - 27-5-2012 at 15:28

You can always get oil drum and put it in one of those, and let your grandchildren worry about that, when they inherit your house.Works for all problem waste.

Really, how much does it cost in USA to get rid of chemical waste? As an european i'd like to know, there is absolutely no way you have stricter bureaucracy than the EU :D

neptunium - 28-5-2012 at 08:44

in the US a chemical spill on the ground (dirt) is dug up and private labs conduct analysis to make sure the contaminant is at a reasonably low level..as long as they keep finding it the EPA or any cleaning crew will keep digging, and keep charging! its easy to see how greed can drive the whole cleaning operation very quickly

jackboyz - 31-5-2012 at 04:12

Disposing an unknown waste without precaution may be hazardous for human being and environment. It should be disposed at proper disposal place or can send it to waste disposal industries.

neptunium - 10-6-2012 at 12:16

oh ok yeah thanks for this precious info..

Eddygp - 10-6-2012 at 12:43

try to react those products into known ones, e.g. with nitric acid or by calcining (just in case some sort of hydrated carbocyanide was made).

Panache - 28-6-2012 at 07:05

A good trick is to package it up into say ten lots and simply mail it back and forth to yourself repeatedly. Eventually it will all be lost.

Pyro - 30-6-2012 at 13:04

put it, and all your other chemical waste somewhere where you will never have contact with it again. good ideas are: public toilets, neighbours toilets, other countries,... :P
But I prefer to put em in a glass jar, label it toxic and just put it down somewhere in a dumpyard. they will not know who it belongs to, and you don't need to pay

Funkerman23 - 6-7-2012 at 16:52

Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob  
According to the chemists of Max Gergel's era, "The solution to pollution is dilution."

So for small amounts of material, I agree with the other above. If you have anything that is organic and nasty, you could mix it into some other related consumer household waste and take it to a local "Household Hazardous Waste collection" site (we have them here sometimes) and let them deal with it. For instance, our area collects mercury thermometers and other related items, so you could probably give them a few ounces of mercury no problem. But if you show up with a 80 pound bottle, they might get a bit worried.

But I have seen pesticides, pool chemicals, photographic chemicals, and others dropped off OK. So if you have used DCM, and you obtained it from a bottle of paint stripper, you could probably put it back into the empty original bottle and say it is used paint stripper. That would all be true, and they will likely burn it with other halogenated waste. My biggest problem is that I usually would like to haul away some of the stuff people have turned in for disposal. I have seen some very valuable chemicals disposed of that way.
Someone shows up with an 80 pound bottle of mercury at MY doorstep not only would I be beyond words( read: extremely happy) but that bottle isn't going anywhere so long as I draw breath on this earth. but I digress. IF the waste is yours follow the advice and entomb the sucker. mark the block if you wish but , if nothing else, make a very big mental note which concrete block is what.