Sciencemadness Discussion Board - "Chemical free" wonder cleaner goes on sale...

"Chemical free" wonder cleaner goes on sale...

Fusionfire - 23-7-2012 at 01:21

Shows the level of ignorance these days

The only chemical free thing is a perfect vacuum, and even that does not exist.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177432/Wonder-clean...

Quote:

They say Bio-mex is an organic, chemical-free product which can get rid of grease and dirt not only from kitchens and bathrooms, but also be used to keep bicycles and car engines shiny and clean.

...

Matthew Canwell, buying director at Lakeland, said: ‘Bio-mex is a bit of a wonder product really. Chemical free but powerful, it should have a place in every home.

Rogeryermaw - 23-7-2012 at 01:45

of course people will fall for it. the dancing monkey on tv said to. certainly you don't expect the hardworking sloths of today to make an educated decision by educating themselves do you? effort is far too traumatic for the delicate, programmed intellect.

Diablo - 23-7-2012 at 02:37

A perfect vacuum would make a great cleaning product though.

weiming1998 - 23-7-2012 at 03:27

Chemistry definition of organic: A substance containing a carbon-carbon/carbon-hydrogen bond (although the term organic is not very well-defined nowadays)

Marketer's definition of organic: All natural and chemical free.

Being natural would imply being full of chemicals, as perfect (100% empty) vacuums are only theoretical and doesn't exist. There is no difference between a synthetic chemical (there are no totally synthetic chemical anyway, as it has to come from something at the beginning, man can't create things out of thin air) and a natural one if the chemical makeup and structure of the two substances are exactly the same.

Unfortunately, the general population is exposed to the second definition of organic much more than the first. Vitalism (what started the "chemical free" and the "natural is totally different from synthetic" type of thinking) should be now obsolete, as humans can now make what people from the past think as "organic and natural" synthetically, but the type of thinking still continues.

Marketing/media could be partially blamed for this type of thinking (encouraging and hyping up), but they're just fishing for money. Isn't the true cause for this type of thinking a lack of education amongst the public? The fact that people falls for this type of "all natural" nonsense and the existance of false diseases that are just pure media hype like "multiple chemical sensitivity" should tell us a bit about how ignorant of science the public is.

[Edited on 23-7-2012 by weiming1998]

99chemicals - 23-7-2012 at 03:46

Wow this is weird.

Last night I found this bottle of shampoo in my shower.

When I found it I was laughing so hard

.

Thank God this shampoo is completely free of chemicals and cruelty. What a great product....

I will bet that most people will believe that there are no chemicals in it too. Quite sad really.

Here is a good rule for you stupid marketers.

IF YOU CAN TOUCH IT, IT IS A CHEMICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dann2 - 23-7-2012 at 04:24

Quote: Originally posted by Diablo

A perfect vacuum would make a great cleaning product though.

Yes.

It would be the perfect cleaner for politicians and bankers.
Procedure:
Banker or politician in placed into the cleaning chamber and the 'cleaning fluid' is turned on . The squeeky clean dude is then removed after a minimum of five minutes.
(Volunteers needed to clean up the cleaning chamber at this stage)
A joyous cleaning job, let me tell ya.

Mailinmypocket - 23-7-2012 at 05:04

I thought I would show this to you guys, it's called head-on... a homeopathic "remedy" which is supposed to relieve headaches. It reminds me of a glue stick and you are supposed to rub it on your temples and forehead, I bought it for fun seeing as it was cheap and not surprisingly, it doesn't work. It only makes your head greasy and smell like menthol.

Anyways, when I first got it I read the ingredients and there is something called "bichromate of potassium" which is not something I want on my skin :S it then lists the "homeopathic name" as being kali bichromicum.

When I google this it brings up some images of orange crystals...and on the homeopathy sites it doesnt say exactly WHAT it is, it only gives all these strange ways it can be used.

I took some pictures of the label in case somebody may know if this is actually K2Cr2O7 or some other product. It would be crazy if it was dichromate though!

weiming1998 - 23-7-2012 at 06:04

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

I thought I would show this to you guys, it's called head-on... a homeopathic "remedy" which is supposed to relieve headaches. It reminds me of a glue stick and you are supposed to rub it on your temples and forehead, I bought it for fun seeing as it was cheap and not surprisingly, it doesn't work. It only makes your head greasy and smell like menthol.

Anyways, when I first got it I read the ingredients and there is something called "bichromate of potassium" which is not something I want on my skin :S it then lists the "homeopathic name" as being kali bichromicum.

When I google this it brings up some images of orange crystals...and on the homeopathy sites it doesnt say exactly WHAT it is, it only gives all these strange ways it can be used.

I took some pictures of the label in case somebody may know if this is actually K2Cr2O7 or some other product. It would be crazy if it was dichromate though!

It's a homeopathic product. There is probably zilch K2Cr2O7 in that stick. Homeopathic substances are measured in X and C. The undiluted form of the medicine is the "mother tincture". 1X means that it is diluted 1:10, 2X means 1:100, 3X means 1:1000. Alternatively, 1C means 1:100, 2C 1:10000, etc. Medication past 12C is unlikely to have even one molecule of the active ingredient originally added in (the dilution is so great it passed the Avogadro's number) Check the label of the medication and see if it specified how many C/X.

Edit: I saw the picture of the label. The concentration for K2Cr2O7 is 6X. Say that the mother tincture was 10g of K2Cr2O7 dissolved in water. So 10 divided by 10^6. The product would contain 0.000001g of dichromate, which is 0.001mg, or 1 microgram of dichromate. I might not be exactly accurate on how concentrated the mother tincture is, but around a few micrograms/tens of micrograms is the very upper limit on the amount of dichromate in that stick.

[Edited on 23-7-2012 by weiming1998]

[Edited on 23-7-2012 by weiming1998]

Sublimatus - 23-7-2012 at 06:13

From the label in the photo:

Code:

Blue Flag / Iris versicolore (Iris Versicolor) root/ racine .. 12X 0.1%
Potassium Bichromate (Kali Bichromicum) crude
Bichromate de potassium (Kali Bichromicum) brut .............. 6X  0.03%
White Bryony / Bryone blanche (Bryonia Alba) root/ racine .... 12X 0.04%

Hah, beat me to it.

[Edited on 7/23/2012 by Sublimatus]

Mailinmypocket - 23-7-2012 at 08:04

@weiming1998: That makes sense, I had no idea that's how homeopathic products work (well... If they work or not seems debatable) Thanks for making sense of it though!

zoombafu - 23-7-2012 at 10:51

I hate how vitamins and natural supplements (I'm looking at a 5-htp bottle right now) say they are drug free.

Rogeryermaw - 23-7-2012 at 11:06

Quote: Originally posted by zoombafu

I hate how vitamins and natural supplements (I'm looking at a 5-htp bottle right now) say they are drug free.

actually, that proclamation carries weight and is definable. normal vitamin supplements are not classified as drugs because they do not alter normal bodily functions. not sure how to classify 5-htp though. the body metabolizes it to serotonin which is naturally occurring in the body, but it is used as an anti-depressant which would indicate the user's body is not producing or using serotonin properly.

hyfalcon - 23-7-2012 at 11:12

The substance in the original post could actually be d-Limonene. Since that substance makes up 90-95% of orange oil then I guess it is considered natural and organic by these marketing gurus. Stuff can still strip paint in it's pure form.

Vogelzang - 23-7-2012 at 13:53

I saw some bleach that was labeled "natural" recently. It had sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate in it.

497 - 23-7-2012 at 20:26

Whoa wait a minute! The marketing industry has been lying to us???

Repetition = Truth

The definition of any word can be changed to suit them (scare you), especially if they cooperate to inundate you with the new definition enough times from every direction. That has always been exploited, but only recently has it become many orders of magnitude cheaper.

Teen Chemist - 25-7-2012 at 07:35

It just proves that you can make money even off of peoples fear of chemicals. It is incredible how ignorant people can be.

SM2 - 27-7-2012 at 08:07

Vegetables containing parathion and DDT are truly "organic". Organic produce.

achem500 - 8-8-2012 at 12:35

The Royal Society of Chemistry has a 1,000,000 pound award to the person who can produce something you can touch that doesn't contain chemicals.

watson.fawkes - 8-8-2012 at 15:36

Quote: Originally posted by achem500

The Royal Society of Chemistry has a 1,000,000 pound award to the person who can produce something you can touch that doesn't contain chemicals.

High-energy electron beam in open atmosphere. You can touch it, but you may not want to. You know, all that nasty induced plasma and the burns would be bad. They didn't say "safe to touch", and it's even made of matter.

gregxy - 9-8-2012 at 10:13

The chemicals that nature produces are not always friendly and good for you. Botulism toxin is "natural' and is the deadliest compound out there, LD50 is something like 1ng/kg,
100s of times more toxic than nerve gas.

If you tested all the chemicals in common plants (even the ones that we eat) you would find quite a few toxic compounds.

Diablo - 9-8-2012 at 10:49

Don't forget mushrooms.

SM2 - 20-8-2012 at 06:54

Why do people call certain elements, chemicals. It seems to retarded to me.

Quote: Originally posted by Fusionfire

Shows the level of ignorance these days

The only chemical free thing is a perfect vacuum, and even that does not exist.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177432/Wonder-clean...

Quote:

Adas - 24-8-2012 at 00:06

Quote: Originally posted by gregxy

The chemicals that nature produces are not always friendly and good for you. Botulism toxin is "natural' and is the deadliest compound out there, LD50 is something like 1ng/kg,
100s of times more toxic than nerve gas.

If you tested all the chemicals in common plants (even the ones that we eat) you would find quite a few toxic compounds.

True, for example, many vegetables contain NaNO2 which causes carcinogenic nitrosamine formation.

- As mandated by law

franklyn - 20-4-2013 at 22:41

Well now it can be told , 35 years ago people were a whole lot more stupid.
The prospect of being sued into insolvency for causing harm apparently has
not worked to ensure product safety. The gist of this new legislation is that
any product made must first prove that it does not cause any harm before
it can be marketed. How dumbed down must civilization become before we
will soon be in the middle ages again with all natural products that will not
even display a label.

These talking heads are themselves dangerous chemicals that should be banned
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIDNO4YmTjE

Some phD's discuss material saftey data
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGKX-ZghK9c

The great leap forward - where have I heard that before
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybYGMwXHIFM

Do it for the children
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmaQiKQKQWQ

.

Finnnicus - 21-4-2013 at 02:34

Can somebody 'touch' the empty space between molecules?
Also, I believe (in a marketers opinion) organic could is often defined as produced naturally by lifeforms, which completely discounts things like SiO2 which makes up a reasonable part of our planet.... Facepalm.

Hexavalent - 2-5-2013 at 13:03

Another superb "chemical-free" product!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB_axsS1w38

testimento - 9-7-2013 at 20:17

In my country this has been true for a long time. You cant get any decent cleaner from shops, even specialty wares, the strongest industrial scale cleaners are something like 1-3% NaOH and 0.5-1% NH4OH. Go ahead and try to wash something for example, dirty floors, walls and shit, you gonna rub your hands to ascbesses. I'd so like to derust parts with citric acid(BAD BOMB MAKING CHEM THINK OF KIDS), use ammonia and lye for any general cleaning(oh wow, theyre so dangerous chemicals), clean mineral walls with HCl, use real fertilizers for my plants other than calcinated shit that may only kill them, etc.

I can find no chemical that wouldn've been cut with some totally random shit. Even de-icers are cut with something that has zero de-icing properties. Sick fuck.

annaandherdad - 10-7-2013 at 09:12

testamento, I'd like to respectfully request that you refrain from vulgar language in your posts. Its presence means that younger children cannot use the forum, and it's not necessary for your message. Thanks.

bfesser - 10-7-2013 at 11:20

The vulgar language is the only thing I've been able to comprehend in his posts. I'd like to respectfully request that he refrain from posting altogether. Think of the children!

unionised - 10-7-2013 at 11:29

"Also, I believe (in a marketers opinion) organic could is often defined as produced naturally by lifeforms, which completely discounts things like SiO2 "

Actually, life is rather good at making things from SiO2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom

The word "Organic" means what you want it to, but "chemical free" is just silly.

Incidentally, way back in this thread someone said that the 6X dilution of bichromate was 1 in ten to the sixth.
It's not.
That would be silly- there might actually be some left.
The homoeopaths dilute things 100 fold each time so it's one part in 100 ^6 or 1 in 10^12
Then, rather absurdly, they dilute it 3000 fold as if that will matter.
Mind you , some of the other "ingredients" are diluted 12X so that's 1 in 10^24
At that level it's unlikely that there's a single molecule of "ingredient" left in the product.
http://xkcd.com/765/

but the most important thing to remember is the bumper sticker
"Real homoeopaths bang it repeatedly against a lump of rubber!".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMK_wLYKpF0

[Edited on 10-7-13 by unionised]