Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Most corrosive agent?

Most corrosive agent?

Psychopatic - 9-8-2004 at 08:26

Hello everyone! I'm new here!

Now, my first question is, how to manufacture the most corrosive agent as possible. I have concentrated Nitric Acid (68%) & concentrated Hydrochloric Acid (35%), in my larder. And this gives the well-known Aqua Regalis, in the properties 1:3. But is it possible to make something even more corrosive than this? I also have concentrated Sulphuric Acid (96%).

Hydroflourine Acid, is said to be extremly corrosive, but I do not have access to that.

Any tip?

svm - 9-8-2004 at 08:40

here's a tip: don't use HF. it's terribly, terribly toxic.

it is very, very corrosive too, however.

Hang-Man - 9-8-2004 at 08:41

Bah. Someone delete this before I have an aneurism.

1. It’s hydofluoric acid, not ‘Hydroflourine Acid’
2. It’s aqua regia not ‘Aqua Regalis’
3. How the hell do you measure how ‘corrosive’ something is.
4. It doesn’t matter because this will be deleted before you read my response.

Here's a tip, look into super acids/bases.

JustMe - 9-8-2004 at 08:47

What Hang-Man said!

However, impure HF could probably be made with your Sulfuric acid and the mineral Fluorite (which is easily available). I wouldn't try it... insidiously toxic, and (hopefully you already know) it corrodes glass.

On the other hand if you could get potassium or sodium dichromate and combine it with salt and sulfuric acid then you get chromyl chloride.

Argh, somebody stop me! I'm incorrigible and incorriging him.

kyanite - 9-8-2004 at 08:58

http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/hydrofluo.htm

at 70% it dissolved some of a test tube, and brought the acid to a boil

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by kyanite]

Psychopatic - 9-8-2004 at 09:03

Well, sorry about my english, it's not so good, especially not in technical terms. But I hope you all know what I mean!

Well, I think I skip the Hydofluoric Acid, I know it's very toxic.

But the dichromate-thing sounds interesting. I think I have ammonium-dichromate, mayby it will work as well?

And I know it's difficult to measure how corrosive substances are. But I mean, if you put the agent on, for example iron, how fast it will destroy the material.

raistlin - 9-8-2004 at 09:15

For the sake of playing devils advocate...

He's from Sweden, which my be the reason for saying "hydroflourine" rather than "hydroflouric".

Aqua Regalis is correct, as it comes directly from Latin, mean- 'Royal Water' or 'Water of Kings'. However, the far more common way of hearing it said, is indeed, aqua regia.

Or then again the guy could quite possibly be a total moron and me defending him is pretty pointless...

Is it just me

Quantum - 9-8-2004 at 09:22

or should you learn some basic chemistry before messing with stuff that has a huge potential of hurting you?

Hang-Man - 9-8-2004 at 09:39

Quote:

And I know it's difficult to measure how corrosive substances are. But I mean, if you put the agent on, for example iron, how fast it will destroy the material.

Consider, dilute nitric acid will attack copper but concentrated Hydrochloric acid will not. This isn't because dilute nitric is 'more corrosive' but because it is an oxidizer as well as an acid. HCl will also attack some things nitric acid will not, (pure Al?)

So if you want to measure how corrosive it is you must also state what it is attacking. Hot H2SO4 will eat organic matter faster than anything else (molten lye would probably be comparable) but wouldn't be as effective on metal as some hydrogen halides.

As for steel, Aqua Regia would most likely be best, or some other acid/oxidizer mix. I have used HCl/H2O2 on hard metals with success. But Aqua Regia won’t eat things like silver where as nitric acid alone will, so specify the target.

I knew Aqua Regia was known as royal water but didn't know regalis was correct, nor did I see he was foreign. All I saw was shitty English and posts 1. Although I still see Vultures circling on this thread.

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by Hang-Man]

Saerynide - 9-8-2004 at 10:04

With your "gimme the worst thing you got" type of post, I really hope you aren't intending to do anything harmful to others with this acid you want to acquire

Psychopatic - 9-8-2004 at 10:45

No, no! I would definitely not harm anyone. I just want a "cool substance" that will "eat upp things"

And yes, it is true that I don't have advanced chemistry-knowledges. But, I'm intressted of it, reading a lot of books and pages on the net about it, mainly about organic chemistry. And I also work part-time at a pharmacy, so have access to many chemicals

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 9-8-2004 at 10:50

There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.

corrosive sublimate

Organikum - 9-8-2004 at 11:29

thats it.

Its also more poisonous than Zyankali. So say some books. Others say otherwise, its not healthy - ok?

And its not water-incompatible. As most supa-acids.....

guy - 9-8-2004 at 12:04

Also, HSO3F and SbF5 mixture gives a super acid.

And is perchloric acid stronger than sulfuric acid?

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by guy]

Democritus of Abdera - 9-8-2004 at 12:38

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1791

Caro's Acid picked up the nickname of Pirahna Bath after one witty chemist noticed it eating a candle someone had placed in a beaker of it.

It also has the benefit of being made from common and inexpensive reagents.

JohnWW - 9-8-2004 at 13:09

As regards gases, fluorine gas is undoubtedly the most corrosive, especially when there is water vapor also present; or as a vapor, platinum hexafluoride (rather unstable though) which can even abstract electrons from O2, N2 and Xe to form salts.

As regards stable liquids, I would think a mixture of HNO3 and HF. I believe that this can dissolve Pt, unlike aqua regia (HNO3 + HCl) which dissolves Au but not Pt.

John W.

DDTea - 9-8-2004 at 13:22

Just adding my bit of warning to what's already been said... Describing HF as simply "toxic" is not adequate. HF is extremely damaging to the bones and causes painful, slow-healing wounds. Do not go anywhere near it if you don't have Calcium Gluconate gel.
Wounds from HF may lead to death or limb amputation!!!

BromicAcid - 9-8-2004 at 14:27

HClO4 (>75%)/H3PO4 mixture at its boiling point will eat glass and metals and detonate if it comes into contact with organic material.

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 9-8-2004 at 14:54

Bromic, won't concentrated perchloric acid
detonate in contact with organics wether in the prescence of H3PO4 or not?

How about tellurium, isn't H2TeO4 supposed to be a stronger acid per % than H2SO4? I imagine peroxymonotelluric acid would be yet more powerful still.

Can H2O2 exist in solution with HF? I'm not sure, but seing as H2O2 isn't exactly going to oxidise HF due to the lack of F oxyacids, than would a strong solution of HF in H2O2 be possible, and one hell of an oxidiser if it is.

budullewraagh - 9-8-2004 at 14:56

Quote:

There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.

a 50% solution of SbF5 in H5 is 10^18 times as acidic as 100% H2SO4.

peroxymonohydrosulfuric acid is also extremely acidic.

if you are asking for the "most powerful acid," are you referring to the acid that has the lowest pK1? but then again we have to factor in the possibility of a pK2, pK3, pK4, etc.

JustMe - 9-8-2004 at 16:20

Well, I'm glad that somebody went into more detail about HF. Anyway, I don't think ammonium dichromate can be substituted in making Chromyl Chloride (in an ALL GLASS apparatus, like a retort). Though it makes a neat fake volcano, of course.

Another very corrosive material is Chromium Trioxide (need we remind us that Hexavalent Chromium is nothing to play around with casually). This can be made from sodium dichromate and concentrated sulfuric acid... look it up.

But it all depends on what you want to corrode. And it begs the question that if it meant to corrode "anything," what are you gonna keep it in? (And for how long?)

Please read, read and read. Start simple. Many years ago I also had a similar situation... access to chemicals through a part-time job at a pharmacy. Ah, them was the days!

BromicAcid - 9-8-2004 at 18:56

Quote:

Bromic, won't concentrated perchloric acid
detonate in contact with organics wether in the prescence of H3PO4 or not?

Very true, especially concentrated solutions when boiling. I just added the H3PO4 in the mix because concentrated phosphoric acid, when hot, will attack glass, something perchloric will not do on its own. This is not a special solution, just something mixture in my head that someone would throw out with only a little chemistry.

Superacids are indeed very acidic by pKa standards but how do they react when exposed to virgin metal? Is the ferocity of their attack in parallel to their intense pKa? However they do dissolve long chain hydrocarbons so they must have something going for them.

Molten CsOH would be quite a formidable corrosive, readily attacking glass and other materials.

Bromine pentafluoride supposedly reacts with every element known except the lower noble gasses and nitrogen directly. Explodes on contact with water and organics, just another 'corrosive' compound.

As stated though, it all depends on what criteria fit your definition of corrosive.

Blind Angel - 9-8-2004 at 19:17

Maybe this scheme could help understand pKa and acidity scale

(old one i know

)

budullewraagh - 9-8-2004 at 19:50

Quote:

Superacids are indeed very acidic by pKa standards but how do they react when exposed to virgin metal? Is the ferocity of their attack in parallel to their intense pKa? However they do dissolve long chain hydrocarbons so they must have something going for them.

in a superacid, the HF has (just about) completely dissociated leaving a ton of H+ wondering what the hell happened to their respective electrons. as a result, these H+ decide to protonate things, namely hydrocarbons because they can easily take, oh, say dodecane and form 12 methane molecules. it makes the H+ happier and the hydrocarbons dont even know what hits them. as for metals, a similar effect happens. the hydrogen is not so happy without any influence on any electrons so it jumps on metals (even if they aren't so active) because hey, there is a better chance of them getting control of an electron than from SbF6- seeing as the F- are all crazy about the Sb+5.

Psychopatic - 10-8-2004 at 09:04

Quantum:
I'm knowing what i'm doing, and I have done experiments with much more dangerous chemicals than HF.

Reverend Necroticus Rex:
I've heard about this Fluoroantimonic acid, I think it is ment in the Guinnes Records of the World.

JustMe:
I have a very small pot with Chromium Trioxide! This should be examinated... There is no warning signs on it.

Working at the pharmacy is fun! But the boss is not so happy about my orders

. But it is my dad who is boss there, so...

Some chemicals I have got from there (the most hazardous):
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium

I also worked at the hospitals physics-department, as a trainee. Some radioactive isotopes "mystically disappeared", from there

budullewraagh - 10-8-2004 at 09:23

why the bloody hell would you ever have a want for KCN?

Corrosive to what ?

MadHatter - 10-8-2004 at 09:36

It's a matter of what material you want to attack. If it's glass then I'll go with
hydrofluoric acid and cesium hydroxide - both will attack glass easily.
If it's gold then aqua reqia or cyanides.

Saerynide - 10-8-2004 at 09:46

*Why* would they have:
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium
in a pharymacy??

[Edit]: typo

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by Saerynide]

Unusal

MadHatter - 10-8-2004 at 10:25

Saerynide, that would seem strange for a pharmacy given how dangerous
those materials are. It's definitely suspicious. Are we dealing with a troll here ?

Hang-Man - 10-8-2004 at 14:28

Potassium Cyanide? ThioCyanide maybe.

Quote:

And yes, it is true that I don't have advanced chemistry-knowledges

Quote:

I'm knowing what i'm doing, and I have done experiments with much more dangerous chemicals than HF.

Anyone see a problem?

What the hell is more dangerous than HF? The KCN you ordered at the pharmacy? ( <--Sarcasm, in response to below. You can’t just order KCN, I agree, he's a troll.)Perhaps you don't understand. IF YOU SPILL IT, YOU WILL DIE.

[Edited on 10-8-2004 by Hang-Man]

Hang-Man

MadHatter - 10-8-2004 at 15:06

Since when do pharmacies carry such lethal matierals ? I still smell a troll !

Marvin - 10-8-2004 at 16:22

MadHatter,

Though dont, but its quite possible places would sell them to a pharmacy.

Hang-Man,

KCN is not quite that toxic. If you get it on your skin you need to wash it off. Its only life threatening if it gets in a cut, or you injest it, or you add acid and breathe in the HCN. It did used to be just another lab chemical.

Conc HF on the other hand, if you spilt on you my understanding is the toxicity could well kill you.

Hang-Man - 10-8-2004 at 16:41

yes, when I said 'if you spill it you will die' I was refering to the HF not the KCN.

Pyrovus - 11-8-2004 at 03:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Saerynide
*Why* they have:
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium
in a pharymacy??

Maybe they sell do-it yourself home euthanasia kits?

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by Pyrovus]

Saerynide - 11-8-2004 at 04:37

LOL

I don't think anyone would want to use any of those to commit suicide.

Hang-Man - 11-8-2004 at 09:32

KCN wouldn't be a bad way to go. Eating sodium metal, white P or Br on the other hand.......

Seems our deceitful friend went AWAL when we exposed his fraud. :rolleyes:

Psychopatic - 11-8-2004 at 11:33

Well, the pharmacys, does not handle these chemicals. But when I worked there, I've access to order chemicals from the biggest chem-company in Sweden, without questions & restrictions.

Hang-Man - 11-8-2004 at 12:47

And what was it you handled that was more dangerous than HF?

JohnWW - 13-8-2004 at 15:04

I have heard of pharmacies, in the past, selling compounds of arsenic and thallium, along with strychnine, and I think KCN, for use as poisons to kill rats and other vermin. Buyers had to sign poisons books. However, this has just about ended, due to the widespread availability of rat and other vermin poisons containing warfarin and other coumarone derivatives, or "1080" (sodium fluoroacetate), which are much more easily treated with antidotes if accidentally ingested.

John W.

Polverone - 13-8-2004 at 17:04

An aside: sodium fluoroacetate is among the deadliest pesticides in use. It is not easily degraded and will poison animals that eat the corpses of poisoned animals. There is no accepted antidote for it. KCN is fairly benign by comparison.

JohnWW - 14-8-2004 at 01:38

Tha is why fluoroacetate is used in poison pellets, made of cereal and dyed green to avoid the attentions of birds, and often dropped by air, for the introduced Australian opossum here in New Zealand, where it is the number one pest, ravaging native forests. However, KCN or NaCN is still used in poison paste (apple jam) for quick kills at bait stations where it is desired to collect the opossum carcases for their skins. There must be an antidote for it, however, as I have heard of veterinary surgeons successfully treating (with an antidote, along with stomach pumping) dogs which had eaten fluoroacetate-poisoned opossums.

John W.

Polverone - 14-8-2004 at 10:32

I did see a few links that mentioned treatment of fluoroacetate poisoning, but they all looked to be research endeavors. I know that my (1950s) references on fluoroacetic acid and derivatives say there's no antidote, in contrast with cyanides and acetylchloinesterase inhibitors, but it's not surprising that something could have been discovered in the last 50 years. Still, I saw many MSDS sheets that warned "there is no antidote," so I suspect that this is a fairly recent innovation.

[Edited on 8-14-2004 by Polverone]

Michal - 18-8-2004 at 01:20

Talking about poisons, when I was at vacation in Hungary I could buy 1 Kilo bags of a 60% NaF and 30% Sodiumdichromate mix with 10% of a other unknown nasty

Logically my dad would'nt let me buy it

(Not that I wanted it, I would wet my pants trying to open the casing, let alone carrying it back in the car to Holland

)

tom haggen - 19-8-2004 at 18:51

The term "aqua regalis" actually sounds oddly familiar to me. Whether it is called aqua regia or the former I would just like to ask a few questions about this mixture. I would like test this mixture on some mild steels. Basically I've had first hand experience with concentrated Nitric, and Sulphuric acid. I guess I'm just curious about experimenting with acids that burn through metals instantly. After experimenting with strong oxidizing acids I figured that acids that burn through metals were just from the movies.

[Edited on 20-8-2004 by tom haggen]

rift valley - 19-8-2004 at 20:07

I have been looking for detailed info on sodium fluoroacetate for a while can any of you point me towards some good resources (my interest was peaked when reading a novel where it mentioned it was was of the strongest poisons know to man

)

thefips - 6-9-2004 at 08:58

Is it right,that Pb is not attacked by HF?I made KF from HF and K2CO3 and I want to get the solid salt from the solution.But it attacks glas because of thaces of HF and perhaps the KF reacts with the glas,too.
I thought I could make a dish from Pb to evaporate the water.Or are there other possibilities?

vulture - 6-9-2004 at 09:22

Both nickel and lead are impervous to KF because of passivation.

fvcked - 7-9-2004 at 15:30

So you could cast a container out of lead or nickel and use that to store HF/KF?

BASF - 8-9-2004 at 01:48

@superacids....why not H2SO4 + another lewis acid like ZnCl2 or FeCl3 instead of SbF5 ? - SbF5 might be first choice in being a strong lewis acid, but i think ZnCl2 or FeCl3 might also work nicely.

Did anyone mention the pKa of Caro´s acid here(for comparison)

?....i was wondering whether it would make sense trying to calculate the super-acid-strength using pKa-Values of the H2SO4 and the lewis acid?!

Caesium-137 - 8-9-2004 at 05:51

Hello!

I suppose you won´t have acess to Lewis-Acids, so what are you going to do with the corrosive chemicals? When you want to corrode metal (writing on it) you can make a little bit of boric acid on it and heat it with a gas-Burner. For Glass is hydoflouric acid great, but its dangerous. Other metals or combinations of them (i`ve forgotten the word

, e.g. woods.....)can be corroded with a little hot sodium hydroxid-Solution. When you want to burn letters in Messing (Zn+Cu), nitric acid is good.

Edit: SbF5 is very expensive.

What is the english php-code for writing letters low? [tief] [/tief] ist the german but it dont work...

[Edited on 8-9-2004 by Caesium-137]

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 8-9-2004 at 09:18

No offense meant at all caesium, but I think you underestimate us at the MSDB, we are all about finding out different methods to synthesise all sorts of materials no matter how mad or unusual they may seem.

Theoretic - 12-9-2004 at 12:25

*Graham Norton voice*

HELL-LO, LADIES! I'M BA-ACK! :cool:

O2F2 is your ultimate oxidizer, at liquid air temperatures it's almost as agressive as elemental fluorine at room t. Think what it does at normal t (if it doesn't do anything at those temperatures it decomposes, it's that active

).

Fluorine has been excelled! Peroxygen fluoride is the king! :cool:

budullewraagh - 12-9-2004 at 18:30

F2O2? that's sick man!

JohnWW - 12-9-2004 at 18:44

Do you think O2F2 could oxidize Au up to Au(V) pentafluoride? The usual reaction is with a mixture of F2 and O2, via dioxygenyl hexafluoroaurate(V):

2Au(s) + 2O2(g) + 6F2(g) (370°C, 8 atmosphere) -> 2O2AuF6 (sublime, 180°C) -> 2AuF5(s) + 2O2(g) + F2(g)

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/compounds/text/Au/Au1...

A red solid, it decomposes at 60ºC. The same reaction with Pt would probably produce O2PtF6, or with pure F2, PtF6.

John W.

Theoretic - 13-9-2004 at 09:22

I'm sure it will, it's certainly more aggressive than fluorine, and it has the oxygen you would otherwise have to add to the fluorine in an active "peroxygen" state (the -O-O- group is always more oxidizing than elemental oxygen, while O2F2 is F-O-O-F, so it has the oxidizing power of H2O2 and fluorine combined, oh and O2F2 is highly ENDOTHERMIC).
So yes, it will do what fluorine on its own can't, make AuF5.

Pyrovus - 16-9-2004 at 03:58

I don't know how this compares with O2F2, but apparently ClF5 is quite nasty, on account of it being about as reactive as fluorine but much denser.

Anyhow, I was reading through a rather old chemistry book of mine and ran across this:

From Latimer, Hildebrand, "Reference Book of Inorganic Chemistry", 1929

Quote:

Fluorine forms the fairly stable oxide, F2O, and at low temperatures the oxides F2O2 and F2O3

The book unfortunately doesn't elaborate on how stable it is (which I found rather annoying), so it could just be an unstable intermediary or something. Still, if it is stable (to some extent) it'd probably be a bit more corrosive than F2O2 owing to the fact that it has 3(!) oxygens in a row.

[Edited on 16-9-2004 by Pyrovus]

Blind Angel - 16-9-2004 at 04:48

Fluorine Superoxide

Ohhhhh, tasty!

Man ppl can't type chemistry formula right F2O3 search on google yield result talking about Fe2O3, but i found a Ref here

Btw: use [ sub ] [ /sub ] (whitout space)

JohnWW - 16-9-2004 at 09:28

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyrovus
I don't know how this compares with O2F2, but apparently ClF5 is quite nasty, on account of it being about as reactive as fluorine but much denser.

I read somewhere that someone had succeeded in producing the cation ClF6+ as a stable compound, isoelectronic with SF6. It would be highly reactive, but probably less so than ClF5 due to its greater molecular symmetry and Cl(VII) being more stable than Cl(V).

John W.

Theoretic - 17-9-2004 at 09:25

Not fluorine SUPERoxide, and not even fluorine peroxide. Peroxygen fluoride... the sound of it kind of prepares you for hearing about its reactivity...

Oh, and F2O4 also exists (btw, "F2O3" is actually a mixture of F2O2 and F2O4).

verode - 30-10-2005 at 09:09

Maybe the more powerfull oxydant is the cation KrF+
KrF(SbF6) + ClF5= Kr+ ClF6(SbF6)

fluoro-antimonic acid
blaze4212005 - 21-6-2006 at 04:53

i only say one thing about this stuff .the stuff 1,018 times more powerful than concentrated sulphuric acid . and i dare u to stick yur finger in there if u think i am wrong lol

Nerro - 21-6-2006 at 05:35

Quote:
Originally posted by Reverend Necroticus Rex
There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.
Nope, CHB<sub>11</sub>Cl<sub>11</sub> is way stronger

Wikipedi has a picture of this molecule

[Edited on Wed/Jun/2006 by Nerro]

blaze4212005 - 21-6-2006 at 06:10

yes but it not Most corrosive acid tho is it look here

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?p=214866

Jdurg - 21-6-2006 at 18:21

Being strongly acidic does not neccessarily mean that a compound is very corrosive. The superacids being generated in research labs are incredibly strong acids, but are usually not all that corrosive. On the opposite end of the spectrum, HF is a fairly weak acid yet it is one of the most corrosive compounds out there.

Pyrovus - 21-6-2006 at 22:07

This might be a bit ambitious, but anyway:

If there could be found a Lewis acid strong enough to make F2 act as a Lewis base (i.e. form a complex of the form F - F(+) - X), then you could effectively have a compound in which one of the fluorine atoms is in the +1 oxidation state. It will be the fluorine atom on the end that is in the +1 oxidation state, not the middle one (this is because, owing to the positive charge on the middle fluorine atom, the electrons in the F-F bond will be closer to the middle fluorine. As a result, the fluorine on the end will have lost partial control of an electron, putting it in the +1 oxidation state.) Such a reaction is known to occur for the heavier halogens, for instance, chlorine will react with AlCl3 as follows: Cl2 + AlCl3 -> Cl-Cl(+)-Al(-)Cl3
in which the chlorine atom on the end behaves as would be expected if it were in the +1 oxidation state.
So if such a feat could be performed with fluorine, this might perhaps be the most corrosive possible chemical compound (the most corrosive non-chemical agent you could get in the universe would probably be antimatter ).

[Edited on 22-6-2006 by Pyrovus]

ethan_c - 22-6-2006 at 02:20

Quote:
Originally posted by Psychopatic
Quantum:
I'm knowing what i'm doing, and I have done experiments with much more dangerous chemicals than HF.

Reverend Necroticus Rex:
I've heard about this Fluoroantimonic acid, I think it is ment in the Guinnes Records of the World.

JustMe:
I have a very small pot with Chromium Trioxide! This should be examinated... There is no warning signs on it.

Working at the pharmacy is fun! But the boss is not so happy about my orders . But it is my dad who is boss there, so...

Some chemicals I have got from there (the most hazardous):
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium

I also worked at the hospitals physics-department, as a trainee. Some radioactive isotopes "mystically disappeared", from there

I can't even tell you how bad a plan all of this is.

Personally, I am nuts. I still play around with concentrated mineral acids.
But no one really understands how insidiously dangerous HF is until they make a mistake. I have one hospital stay under my belt from that one, even being super careful.

Sodium- meh. Keep it away from large amounts of water. Bromine? Keep it in its container, pull a few drops out to experiment…not a huge deal as long as you don't pour it all over the place. But WP, any cyanide, arsenic, and thallium- you're gonna die. It's not worth it.

Chromium trioxide is corrosive, but the true danger lies in the fact that it's quite carcinogenic. If you weren't aware of this, cancer SUCKS. I have CrO3, its a useful compound, but be vewy vewy careful…

Bah. Have your fun. But be very careful that your fun doesn't end in heavy metal toxicity, hypocalcemia, blindness, or a simple tertiary case of DEATH.

lightningstalker - 28-6-2006 at 22:15

Quote:
Originally posted by Saerynide
*Why* would they have:
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium
in a pharymacy??

[Edit]: typo

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by Saerynide]

Dunno if you will read this because that post is a few years old, but some pharmacies order directly from chemical supply houses for things like epsom salt and saltpeter, so they could order anything the house carries.

Quote:
I also worked at the hospitals physics-department, as a trainee. Some radioactive isotopes "mystically disappeared", from there

Perhaps you all aren't aware of how dangerous radioisotopes are. Ever heard of a dirty bomb? Yhea. A few grams of material can kill hundreds if not thousands of people, whereas HF can get diluted in air and water to harmless levels much more easily. This of course would depend on a lot of things, such as the halflife of the particular isotope, but if it were, say, 134Cs or 90Sr, it would be bad. 238Pu could release some nastiness beyond imagination.

[Edited on 29-6-2006 by lightningstalker]

JohnWW - 29-6-2006 at 02:32

Quote:
Originally posted by verode
Maybe the more powerfull oxydant is the cation KrF+
KrF(SbF6) + ClF5= Kr+ ClF6(SbF6)

Yes, I heard that someone had recently made a compound of ClF6+ (isoelectronic with SF6 and PF6-), formerly thought to be an "impossible" compound, and that was probably the method, in which the Kr effectively gives up a F+ ion to be evolved as the gas. But KrF2 is hard enough to make and store (and ArF2 harder still - only by low-temperature solid-phase irradiation, and detectable only by the Ar-F bond's IR stretching frequency); presumably it reacts with SbF5, a very powerful Lewis acid, to form KrF[SbF6]. I wonder if BrF6+ has been similarly made.

The cation NF4+ would probably be made in the above reaction if NF3 were substituted for ClF5. I understand that it has been made by other means as salts of BF4- and PF6- and ClO4-. If it could be isolated in combination with a F- anion, that would be effectively NF5, although containing two different types of F atom which would show up in the F-19 NMR spectrum.

JohnWW - 30-6-2006 at 16:40

Following on from my previous post on this thread, if F2O were used instead of ClF5 or NF3 in the above reaction with KrF[SbF6], because the Kr gives up an F+ cation, it is likely to be a method of preparing the trifluorooxonium cation, OF3+, also as a salt of SbF6- or other powerful Lewis acid, but which seems so far to have eluded isolation. This is in spite of its being theoretically thermodynamically stable, with the O being tetravalent. This may be a route to the tetrafluoride, [OF3]F, again coiontaining two types of F atom, which apparently cannot be prepared directly.

ethan_c - 1-7-2006 at 00:11

Quote:
Originally posted by lightningstalker
Perhaps you all aren't aware of how dangerous radioisotopes are. Ever heard of a dirty bomb? Yhea. A few grams of material can kill hundreds if not thousands of people, whereas HF can get diluted in air and water to harmless levels much more easily. This of course would depend on a lot of things, such as the halflife of the particular isotope, but if it were, say, 134Cs or 90Sr, it would be bad. 238Pu could release some nastiness beyond imagination.

I have a bone to pick with this. Dirty bombs as a weapon aren't meant to kill lots of people- that idea just doesn't make sense. The idea is to incite mass hysteria, and cause lots of health problems that would push any government to the breaking point, staff-wise and money-wise.
If 'a few grams of material' can kill people like you say, bombs of this design would be employed by many militaries without a doubt. Radioisotopes of Cs, Co, Sr, Pu, Np, etc are much, much more likely to cause one long-term health problems than they are to outright kill one.
The truth is that governments and corporations illegally and irresponsibly dump 'used' radioisotopes all the time, all over the world, and while it's not a GOOD thing, at the moment our species has bigger fish to try, to say the least. We are quite lucky that as organic beings, we are fairly resistant to low-power yet persistant radiation exposure, because it's all over the place (we get radiation exposure from natural carbon and potassium isotopes every second).

verode - 1-1-2007 at 13:55

Quote:
Originally posted by Psychopatic
Hello everyone! I'm new here!

Now, my first question is, how to manufacture the most corrosive agent as possible. I have concentrated Nitric Acid (68%) & concentrated Hydrochloric Acid (35%), in my larder. And this gives the well-known Aqua Regalis, in the properties 1:3. But is it possible to make something even more corrosive than this? I also have concentrated Sulphuric Acid (96%).

Hydroflourine Acid, is said to be extremly corrosive, but I do not have access to that.

Any tip?

try with SeOCl2 very nice ...only pure C resist the attack
very powerfull solvent.-

verode - 1-1-2007 at 13:59

Quote:
Originally posted by Reverend Necroticus Rex
There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.

better SO3+ HSO3F + SbF5 it's even stronger

woelen - 2-1-2007 at 08:17

In what kind of vessels they store such compounds? Since a few weeks I have some KHF2 and in my first experiment with that I already spoiled a test tube, so I really wonder how compounds like HF/SbF5 mixes are stored or processed.

Nerro - 2-1-2007 at 10:12

Doesn't Ni get pacified by HF by forming an thin impenetrable layer of NiF2?