Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Fertilizer Plant blows up in Waco, Texas

Fertilizer Plant blows up in Waco, Texas

binaryclock - 17-4-2013 at 21:47

Get ready for more restrictions....

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/fertilizer-p...

Here is a crazy youtube video of it happening, and the explosion. At first it's just on fire.. but 3/4 of the way through a MASSIVE explosion... keep watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrpKx3aIjA

This is why you don't play with nitrates.

elementcollector1 - 17-4-2013 at 21:57

I was just thinking that it could've been a rudimentary sort of ANFO at work. All they'd need is a good reducing agent.

chemcam - 17-4-2013 at 22:10

HOLY SHIT! That poor little girl talking to her dad in the background saying she can't hear is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. What kind of idiot gets that close to a burning factory, especially with kids. Morons like him are what get the restrictions placed.

*EDIT
Ammonium Nitrate will detonate explosively under strong heating so fuel oil isn't necessary in this case.

[Edited on 4-18-2013 by chemcam]

binaryclock - 17-4-2013 at 22:35

Update: West EMS Director tells KWTX-TV as many as 60 or 70 people dead, hundreds injured in fertilizer plant explosion. My god it's been a bad week for explosions.

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by binaryclock]

froot - 17-4-2013 at 22:39

At that distance the noise and shock wave is one thing, flying debris is another.

Classic example of DDT.

Finnnicus - 17-4-2013 at 23:02

NH4NO3 is what's happening here? That was incredible!

Edit: Sorry, that seems insensitive, I do feel for these people.

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by Finnnicus]

Rosco Bodine - 17-4-2013 at 23:05

The explosion was heard and felt 60 miles away, with the blast reportedly producing an earthquake tremor measuring 2.1 on the Richter scale at the nearest seismograph 23 miles away.

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by Rosco Bodine]

binaryclock - 18-4-2013 at 04:51

Quote: Originally posted by Finnnicus

NH4NO3 is what's happening here? That was incredible!

Edit: Sorry, that seems insensitive, I do feel for these people.

No worries mate. We are a scientific community discussing the blast, reaction, and the possible community response from this matter. It goes without saying we all feel for them and you are just discussing the chemical reaction and how powerful it is.

Local notice issued:

If you are experiencing any of the following:
Irritation of the eyes, nose throat; Burns or blisters; Difficulty breathing; A pungent smell which feels suffocating,
Get out of the area immediately - This is likely to be Anhydorus Ammonia - It clings to the floor/ground and can cause death in high exposure.

Interesting VIDEO to watch however be aware, this video shows total devestation of homes from the blast. So if you are offended by raw video then do not watch. At 7:34 in the video, the guy immediately starts relating the explosion to a "meth" explosion. I find it curious as soon as any sort of chemicals are involved, people immediately think of "meth" or the worst things criminal chemists can do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...

A quote:

Why was the explosion so massive?
"The plant uses ammonium nitrate in fertilizer production, the same chemical used in 1995's Oklahoma City Bombing," says Siobhan Morris at Newstalk 1010. Timothy McVeigh used a truck packed with about two tons of ammonium nitrate to set off his deadly blast, killing 168 people and wounding hundreds more. "The West Fertilizer plant may have had as much as 100 tons of the chemical on hand." SOURCE: http://theweek.com/article/index/242947/what-we-know-about-t...

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by binaryclock]

DerAlte - 18-4-2013 at 07:45

Here is a comparison with another real event. For those with long memories, the worst incident of this nature was the following (WIKI):

Texas City Disaster On 16 April 1947, the SS Grandcamp, loaded with 8,500 short tons (7,700 t) of ammonium nitrate, exploded in port at Texas City, Texas. 581 died, over 5,000 injured. Using standard chemical data for decomposition of ammonium nitrate gives 2.7 kilotons of energy released.[14] The US Army rates the relative effectiveness of ammonium nitrate, compared to TNT, as 0.42.[15] This conversion factor makes the blast the equivalent of 1.134 kilotons of TNT. This is generally considered the worst industrial accident in United States history.

Der Alte

ScienceSquirrel - 18-4-2013 at 07:53

Ammonium nitrate explosions;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Intergalactic_Captain - 18-4-2013 at 07:55

There are a few things that irk me right off the bat here... I live in WNY, and all the local coverage is following the same pattern as Boston - Media blitz, normal programming, media blitz - test the waters to see what the reaction is. I, as someone who can look at this from an objective perspective, as I'm sure most of the members her do, see this as most likely being an unfortunate industrial accident that happens from time to time due simply to lack of proper oversight and/or a freak accident or three...

...That said, this is the legal section...

Point one - The "sheriff" that gave the soundbytes on my local station kept referring to "the anhydrous" as if it were some sort of WMD. In his words, and I'm sure someone has heard what I'm talking about, "the anhydrous" was the same explosive used in OKC - And he goes on to ramble that it is incredibly powerful and that's why the devastation was so great.

...The problem here is that this sheriff is speaking from his ass... The problem is that he's the top cop in the middle of meth country - Yes, "the anhydrous" is a dangerous local concern - but not because it's an explosive (which it isn't), and not because it's a terrorist target (it's a fertilizer factory, take the AN instead) - It's a local concern because the internet and rednecks exist and anhydrous ammonia is available in bulk at a factory that deals with it one way or another (AN synthesis? bulk distribution? don't know, it's a fertilizer factory) - And that factory just exploded, so the obvious answer is that "the anhydrous" must be at fault...

Second, the LE interviews on the news - "We will perform a criminal investigation first, to see if there is anything criminal about this... If there is no evidence of criminal activity, then we will, um, go about it as if it were a normal industrial accident"... I'm sorry, is this not ass-backwards? Yes, this is an incredible human toll when considered as human casualties in a modern american city - However, it's still an industrial accident - It doesn't matter whether it was deliberate or purely coincidental - Shouldn't the primary focus be on what caused the event in the first place, and the direction towards criminal or civil prosecution be made after that?

...I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting here, but all I can do is scream "Texas City!" and hope people can put two and two together and realize that not everything is the result of terrorism... Who knows, but this one just screams long-overdue incident of random chance...

binaryclock - 18-4-2013 at 08:27

To be a sheriff in "meth country" you should be required to have at least high school chemistry or first year university chemistry knowledge. These are the guys making some life changing decisions based on their wisdom in life. It wouldn't be surprising to hear more fathers going to jail that are just trying to teach their son chemistry at home.

For this reason I called my local police station and asked them 20 questions regarding home chemistry just to make sure there wasn't any odd laws like Texas has concerning glassware.. He told me that I'd have nothing to worry about as long as I'm not purchasing large industrial sized equipment and using common sense. Surprisingly, the cop that picked up the phone on the first ring and that I spoke with knew quite a bit about chemistry and was able to advise me quite well. I was impressed.

I really am disappointed that it's not as easy for my son to learn chemistry as it was for me when I was young. I got a chemistry set with over 50 chemicals, half of them caustic and acidic. I remember having tubes of nitric acid, lye, powdered aluminium, and many nitrates. While I do understand why companies stopped selling these sets, it is still disappointing.

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by binaryclock]

watson.fawkes - 18-4-2013 at 10:57

Quote: Originally posted by Intergalactic_Captain

the LE interviews on the news - "We will perform a criminal investigation first, to see if there is anything criminal about this... If there is no evidence of criminal activity, then we will, um, go about it as if it were a normal industrial accident"... I'm sorry, is this not ass-backwards? [...] Shouldn't the primary focus be on what caused the event in the first place, and the direction towards criminal or civil prosecution be made after that?

No, it's not backwards at all. If there was crime involved, an act of sabotage, say, then if you want to convict the saboteur you need to preserve an evidence chain from the start. You don't get a good evidence chain when you try to go back and reconstruct it; it's far weaker.

DerAlte - 18-4-2013 at 11:44

Pipped me to the post, W.F.!

@Intergalactic_Captain, who wrote

Quote:

Point one - The "sheriff" that gave the soundbytes on my local station kept referring to "the anhydrous" as if it were some sort of WMD. In his words, and I'm sure someone has heard what I'm talking about, "the anhydrous" was the same explosive used in OKC - And he goes on to ramble that it is incredibly powerful and that's why the devastation was so great.

Before you immediately accuse the sheriff or deputy of crass ignorance, he was referring to anhydrous ammonium nitrate, which was the explosive is in OKC (with the addition of some fuel oil). Ammonium nitrate solution will not explode, AFAIK, and is regularly transported around the country in tankers by rail and even by road. The deputy, being in a rural area, and one where AN was actively being produced, would have known this. Also, solid AN, anhydrous, is regularly used by farmers in Texas , with a bit of old oil, plus a blasting cap, to blow up trees etc. off agricultural land. AN decomposes explosively at 210C, IIRC, and detonates. Hence the deputy is perfectly correct.

In other words, you are talking out of your ass. The legal angle is that AH is known to detonate if heated enough, and an arsonist, for example, could have, set a storehouse on fire – a criminal act. If the problem is a manufacturing or handling prblem, OSHA investigates - after LE has established a cause, if it can, or simultaneously as an aid to LE. Surely you can see you have it ass backwards, can’t you? What the hell has meth to do with it?

Der Alte

[Edited on 18-4-2013 by DerAlte]

DerAlte - 18-4-2013 at 14:14

Associated Press report Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:19 PM EDT

"About a half-hour before the blast, the town's volunteer firefighters had responded to a call at the plant, (Waco police Sgt. William Patrick) Swanton said. They immediately realized the potential for disaster because of the plant's chemical stockpile and began evacuating the surrounding area.

The blast happened 20 minutes later."

Der Alte

bfesser - 18-4-2013 at 14:15

Does anyone have any photographs (or other videos, not by that guy with his cell phone) of the moment of the actual detonation?

ScienceSquirrel - 18-4-2013 at 16:47

Ammonium nitrate does not need any help or provocation to detonate.
Just stack enough kilos tiogether, start a self sustaining fire and it will explode.
If the stuff is in the presence of oil or another fuel then it is even more dangerous.
I highlighted a case where ammmonium nitrate had been prepared using spent acid from the preparation of TNT.
Wild horses could not drag me in to close proximity of a 50 kilo bag of ammonium nitrate contamininated with TNT but they had happily stockpiled tons of the stuff.
Big heap of ammonium nitrate, familiarity breeding carelessness and bang.

Rosco Bodine - 18-4-2013 at 19:50

That is not entirely correct. Ammonium nitrate in large stockpiled quantity of many tons such as a manufacturing facility or in the hold of a ship presents an exponentially greater hazard than does for example a few dozen bags or a few tons unconfined. Ammonium nitrate is quite difficult to detonate without extreme provocation. Only a very specific, usually deliberately made and not storage stable crystalline form and density has low enough critical diameter for ability to sustain a detonation wave through a mass as might be attempted to be used deliberately as in blasting. Of course that limitation becomes less operative where the critical diameter is exceeded by a storage silo or a hold of a ship that may have hundreds of tons of the material. You are correct that contaminants like fuel can sensitize the material and reduce the critical diameter for detonation as can be true for any oxidizers. But high density fertilizer grade ammonium nitrate such as might be a bagged product stacked unconfined in a barn or greenhouse or at a garden supply is not going to "just blow up" from a fire. It just doesn't happen. Under ordinary conditions, ammonium nitrate is not dangerous in storage. It is when extraordinary exceptional and specific conditions are encountered that is when the danger arises. There are many other relatively stable materials of commerce which can under specific conditions become explosion hazards.

[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: removed unnecessary quoting]

[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]

Endimion17 - 19-4-2013 at 19:28

When I first saw that vertical

video of a father and his daughter in a car, I've immediately noticed the vicinity of their parking spot. How on earth did he come up with an idea to approach such fire? A fertilizer plant on fire. Geez, wasn't that an obvious clue?
And what about the firefighters and the police? Why haven't they established a perimeter? I've read that there were lots of people even closer than he was.
Here's an example.
<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tLWw24OQFdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Judging by the sound of the blast delay, father and daughter in the car were at some 200 metres mark, and the people in the embedded video seem to be under 100 metre mark. That's insane!

If I lived in a town with fertilizer plant and it caught fire, I'd pick up my family and evacuate. At least a kilometre away. I remember PEPCON. OK, fertilizers are less powerful than solid rocket fuel, but screw that, I like not being a disabled person.

AndersHoveland - 19-4-2013 at 22:27

It may have been the release of ammonia gas that accumulated into a cloud and ignited, causing an explosion which was then able to detonate the NH4NO3 that was sitting around in storage.

Especially with the large quantities of the fertilizer already in the heat of the blazing fire to begin with, that greatly increases the sensitivity.

Obviously individual bags of NH4NO3 are completely safe under normal situations. It is only HUGE quantities of the fertilizer sitting around that can create a potential storage danger.

I guess the big agricultural corporations could just switch to organic farming.

[Edited on 20-4-2013 by AndersHoveland]

elementcollector1 - 19-4-2013 at 22:37

Is ammonia even that easily flammable? Also, it combusts to N2 and H2O, which are both nonflammable gases under these conditions.

[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: removed unnecessary quoting]

[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]

AndersHoveland - 19-4-2013 at 22:46

It is actually very difficult to get NH3 to burn in air, it can only undergo combustion within a very narrow vapor concentration range, but industrial explosions from clouds of NH3 have been known to occur.

Ammonia can ignite when it reaches a concentration of about 16 to 25 percent in air. The combustion temperatures can reach 650 °C. The anhydrous ammonia tanks were also stored at high pressure, so could possibly have ruptured during the fire and been the cause of the main explosion. In other words, an ammonia leak may have found an ignition source, started a fire, and then that fire may have eventually caused the other ammonia tanks to explode.

[Edited on 20-4-2013 by AndersHoveland]

[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: removed unnecessary quoting]

[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]

Intergalactic_Captain - 20-4-2013 at 06:02

Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes

My point here was that if this happened at any other time, the coverage and media portrayal would be different. I work third shift, so I saw a blip about an explosion in Texas on the news, heard the conspiracy coverage on Coast on my lunch break, and this sheriff's sondbytes on the ride home the next morning. My point is that the first coverage on the matter was focused heavily on the criminal and terrorist potential, and that those being interviewed were more than ready to jump on a criminal investigation before even considering figuring out what the hell actually happened...

Quote:

Before you immediately accuse the sheriff or deputy of crass ignorance, he was referring to anhydrous ammonium nitrate, which was the explosive is in OKC (with the addition of some fuel oil). Ammonium nitrate solution will not explode, AFAIK, and is regularly transported around the country in tankers by rail and even by road. The deputy, being in a rural area, and one where AN was actively being produced, would have known this. Also, solid AN, anhydrous, is regularly used by farmers in Texas , with a bit of old oil, plus a blasting cap, to blow up trees etc. off agricultural land. AN decomposes explosively at 210C, IIRC, and detonates. Hence the deputy is perfectly correct. In other words, you are talking out of your ass. The legal angle is that AH is known to detonate if heated enough, and an arsonist, for example, could have, set a storehouse on fire – a criminal act. If the problem is a manufacturing or handling prblem, OSHA investigates - after LE has established a cause, if it can, or simultaneously as an aid to LE. Surely you can see you have it ass backwards, can’t you? What the hell has meth to do with it?

...Because NOT ONCE were the words "ammonium" and/or "nitrate" used. I'll admit that I'm not a texan, so maybe you're right - But I spent my entire life in agricultural communities and anhydrous ammonia and ammonium nitrate are most definitely NOT the same thing. When the term "anhydrous" is used, it is only ever in reference to anhydrous ammonia.

My concern, I guess, comes down to semantics and outright wrong information... Sure, anhydrous ammonia may have been present at the plant - I don't know their process, but it's possible. The most likely thing that happened was a massive detonation of NH4NO3 - However, this cop, who considering the area of the country he is in, likely has far more experience with meth cooks than high explosives - So he put two and two together, thought fertilizer factory explosion and exploding meth labs, and decided that "the anhydrous" must be what happened... Now, do you get where I'm coming from here?

...I could be completely wrong about everything I just said, only wanted to clarify what was apparently taken the wrong way.

watson.fawkes - 20-4-2013 at 07:04

Quote: Originally posted by Intergalactic_Captain

My point is that the first coverage on the matter was focused heavily on the criminal and terrorist potential, and that those being interviewed were more than ready to jump on a criminal investigation before even considering figuring out what the hell actually happened...

Sure, I agree with that much. So the suspicion of criminal activity was overblown, but that doesn't mean the the LEO involved, once he has that suspicion, who is taking care to treat the scene as a crime scene, is acting improperly. He might be wasting his time, but that's about the worst thing that can be said. Yet also, though, in a media environment that inflames political anxiety, he would be prudent to say all these things even if he himself puts no credence in them. Whatever else it is, it's not "ass-backwards".

S.C. Wack - 20-4-2013 at 08:23

Bretherick's:
Although there is a high lower explosive limit in air and ignition is not easy, there is a long history of violent gas—air explosions in refrigeration practice, in which ammonia previously was used widely [1]....A report is given of explosion of a tank containing 7000 t of liquid ammonia, in Lithuania, consequent upon thermal disequilibrium and ‘bumping’ of the liquid [10,11]. The liberated ammonia caught fire in the open air, the first time this is thought to have been observed.
1. MCA SD-8, 1960
10. Andersson, B. O., Hazards XI, 15, Symp. Ser. 124, Rugby(UK), IChE, 1991.
11. Andersson, B. O., Ammonia Plant Safety, 1991, 31, 5

More relevant to us than the thread:
Mixtures of ammonia and air lying within the explosive limits can occur above aqueous solutions of certain strengths. Welding operations on a vessel containing aqueous ammonia caused a violent explosion...added water vapour at 80C shows that aqueous solutions of below 5% ammonia content do not produce flammable vapours at any temperature, and that above 49C no flammable vapours are produced by ammonia solution of any concentration.

Endimion17 - 20-4-2013 at 08:55

I don't know if you've seen this...

<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n4ktAaGAyLc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's beautiful and it shows how tough itis to create an explosion. These are deflagrations. Detonations of ammonia-air mixtures are highly unlikely.

S.C. Wack - 20-4-2013 at 12:01

While 540,000 lbs of NH4NO3 have been reported, the pictures of what remains of the plant seem to indicate a large amount of something with less power than ammonium nitrate...270 tons of which should have pulverized the plant to shrapnel and left a notable crater...

hyfalcon - 20-4-2013 at 17:11

Not exactly. All of it would have to come to the decomposition temp at once. I'm sure a sizable quantity reached that temp but not all of it at the same time.

Endimion17 - 21-4-2013 at 06:39

Here's a new video. It seems there was really a ton of stupid people around the plant.

<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JTVUA-jJ11I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This might be from the other side, and you can see there were several bursts in a very short time, probably resulting from pressure tank ruptures induced by the main blast.

S.C. Wack - 21-4-2013 at 16:52

The best crappy picture I've seen now does perhaps indicate a notable (50') crater at the south end of the building. IIRC we'd've been told the depth and diameter by now, Back In The Old Days.

Dr.Bob - 22-4-2013 at 09:46

It seems likely that the fire over-pressured and over-heated the liquid ammonia tanks, at least one of which then failed catastrophically, creating a cloud of flammable vapors which likely reacted with the hot ammonium nitrate to create a larger deflagration/explosion, which likely initiated the other tanks of ammonium nitrate to explode. All of this might have happened in a very short time, creating what appears to be one large explosion, but is likely several explosions of growing size. Getting the exact order of which went first will take a while, but might be determined eventually.

But certainly there was enough ammonium nitrate (100+ tons) and anhydrous ammonia (10,000's of gallons) to create a large explosion under the worst case scenario. I counted at least 3 silos of AN and 3 or more large tanks of liquid ammonia. Anhydrous likely does mean liquid ammonia. And ammonium nitrate slurry in water is used in blasting, so while the solution may be safe, ammonium nitrate as a slurry of prills in water can explode under the right conditions, especially if a fuel is present.

The combination of ammonium nitrate and ammonia would certainly be able to create an explosion, as for each ammonia that is oxidized, you get 3 molecules of water and 0.5 N2, so that creates a very large amount of gas, and with AN, it would be:

NH3 + NH4NO3 ---> 1.5 N2 + 3 H20 + 1/2 H2

So from a liquid and a solid, you generate roughly 5 moles of a gas, plus a large amount of heat. That would certainly be enough gas to create a large explosion.

DraconicAcid - 22-4-2013 at 10:03

I think it would be more likely to give 2 NH₃ + 3 NH₄NO₃ --> 4 N₂ + 9 H₂O

My mind rebels at seeing hydrogen generated from a conflagration.

[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: removed unnecessary quoting]

[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]

Magpie - 22-4-2013 at 11:35

Just looking at the satelite picture I conclude the following:

1. There was no manufacturing, or likely even blending of ferilizers (not enough tanks, pipes, pumps, etc). The "plant" looks to be only for storage and distribution.
2. There are many smaller anhydrous ammonia tanks likely for use on location in a farmer's field.
3. There are quite a few larger anhydrous ammonia tanks for truck transport on the highway to other distributors.
4. The big gray silos look like they are for storage and distribution of dry particle fertilizers, likely NH4NO3 prills. One silo looks like it can receive product from the nearby railroad.

The large circular structure with all the small white rectangles neatly arrayed in it puzzles me. Anybody know what that is?

Why do we think that anhydrous ammonia had anything to do with the explosion other than through over-pressurization of the tanks? Wouldn't over-heated NH4NO3 be enough to cause the explosion in and of itself?

NH4NO3 + heat --> N2O + 2H2O (Wiki)

unionised - 22-4-2013 at 12:11

A few of my colleagues and I were talking about this. We came to the conclusion that the coverage of the ammonia was a bit like them saying "This plant with 250 tones of explosives and a lithium battery exploded- but, because we have heard they use lithium to make meth it must be devilishly dangerous so we will blame it."

(And these are my colleagues who deal with risk assessments for hazardous processes and me, whose jobs include looking at what should or shouldn't be built near such factories)

Ammonium nitrate factories blow up from time to time- usually due to a fire- occasionally due to outright stupidity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

S.C. Wack - 21-5-2013 at 20:37

I still have not seen a better photo of the actual blast site than the one I posted. Other photos including aerials seem to be rather deliberately just off to one side or low-res. Don't hear much except for the paramedic who has been silenced by prosecution after talking, after being fired immediately after talking...It's said that the manager of the nitrate operation was a fireman and quite aware of what they including 2 civilians were getting in to, and all of them were found within yards of the crater. The wisdom of going anywhere near it much less putting water on it seems yet to come up. IIRC people predicted the brick wall for the CSB from the beginning. I wonder if they actually have access to the US Marshals.

-------------------------------------------

WACO, Texas May 22, 2013 (AP)

Federal agents and the state fire marshal have effectively barred a federal safety panel from the site of a Texas fertilizer plant blast that killed 15 people and injured about 200 others, hampering its investigation, the panel's chairman said.

In a May 17 letter to Sen. Barbara Boxer, U.S. Chemical Safety Board Chairman Rafael Moure-Eraso asked the California Democrat to help the board obtain evidence under control of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that he contends is essential to the board's investigation, the Waco Tribune-Herald and Austin American-Statesman reported.

"To date, the CSB has experienced significant obstacles that potentially compromise and delay our ability to complete the 'comprehensive investigation' that you have rightly demanded, and that we would very much like to produce," he wrote to Boxer. The chairwoman of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works has said she planned to hold hearings into the April 17 West Fertilizer explosion.

A criminal investigation "comes with certain sensitivities. You need to keep it to law enforcement only," Robert Champion, ATF special agent in charge of the investigation told the American-Statesman. He also said the decision to bar the CSB from the site was made by the State Fire Marshal's Office.

Fire Marshal's Office spokeswoman Rachel Moreno said the CSB was kept out because criminal investigators were executing search warrants.

"We have to protect evidence," she told the American-Statesman. "We need to have one report, one set of interviews; it all has to be clear cut."

Messages left by The Associated Press with ATF and the State Fire Marshal's Office were not returned Tuesday night. However, a Boxer spokeswoman said the senator had asked the agencies to respond as quickly as possible to her concerns regarding the issues raised in the letter.

In an April 30 statement, Boxer said she "cannot rest until we get to the bottom of what caused the disaster" in West and that she wants to make sure such facilities are complying with chemical safety laws.

In his letter, Moure-Eraso said the board sent 18 investigators and other experts to West within 24 hours of the blast. At the same time, ATF "assumed essential exclusive control of the incident site" with the State Fire Marshal's Office, he wrote.

"These criminal investigators have exercised exclusive control of the site for a full one-month period ... and have altered or removed almost all relevant physical evidence at the site," he wrote.

ATF and the State Fire Marshal's Office "consistently expressed the position that CSB was not permitted to conduct separate interviews, prepare expert analysis or author its own independent report," he wrote. ATF and the state fire marshal "state that because in their view this was exclusively a criminal investigation, there could be only one version of what occurred and one report."

On May 16, representatives of the State Fire Marshal's Office announced that the joint criminal investigation left the cause of a fire precipitating the blast as "undetermined."

Investigators narrowed the number of possible causes to three: a problem with one of the plant's electrical systems, a battery-powered golf cart and a criminal act. However, they could not say with certainty what caused the fire that ignited stored ammonium nitrate, said Kelly Kistner, the assistant state fire marshal.

subsecret - 9-8-2013 at 16:21

My family is from Texas...more specifically the West area. 2 family houses were damaged. One of them had asbestos insulation and apparently the ceiling caved in.

Sorry if this is off topic...

bfesser - 9-8-2013 at 16:58

Not off topic at all.

<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Ba8jTkRWiwI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

USGS Event Summary, <strong><a href="http://comcat.cr.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usb000g9yl#summary" target="_blank">M2.1 Explosion - 1km NNE of West, Texas</a></strong> <img src="../scipics/_ext.png" />

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=west-texas-...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosi...

[Edited on 10.8.13 by bfesser]

vulture - 26-10-2013 at 05:57

Quote:

Eyewitnesses likened the event to a nuclear bomb blast

This pisses me off to no end - sensationalism. Because everybody in that town has witnessed a nuclear blast before, right?

As for blaming the people in the videos for coming so close, they might not have been aware that it was a fertilizer plant. Secondly, even if they knew, they probably didn't realize fertilizer is explosive. The question should be: Why was there an ammonium nitrate plant in a residential area?

IrC - 26-10-2013 at 11:23

"Why was there an ammonium nitrate plant in a residential area?"

I have no doubt in virtually every case of this the plant was already there. Developers wanting to profit from their land investments work at changing zoning regulations and slowly urban sprawl surrounds these plant with houses. Long have I wondered about the sanity of those buying newly built houses in these areas. I watched it in Phoenix for decades. Cannot imagine buying a house in a new subdivision a few blocks from a 1 million gallon petroleum storage tank, itself surrounded by other giant tanks. Or a new trailer park near a Morton Thiokol plant. Is it madness or just stupidity? I get it, both.

franklyn - 26-10-2013 at 11:31

Quote: Originally posted by vulture

Quote:

Eyewitnesses likened the event to a nuclear bomb blast

This pisses me off to no end - sensationalism. Because everybody in that town has witnessed a nuclear blast, right ?

No doubt they had , for why else would witnesses make that comparison. Experiencing a ' nuclear blast ' was common place for the weapon scientists during above ground testing. There are many videos on youtube of this. You should know that high explosives in the amounts of this event have been used in practical simulations of nuclear explosions , so the comparison is perfectly valid.

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vulture - 26-10-2013 at 12:38

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They are hearsay witnesses, watching a video does not make you an eyewitness.

Yes, HE's have been used to simulate nuclear blasts, but in larger quantities and there is no electromagnetic spike - otherwise the witnesses would have been blind.

franklyn - 29-10-2013 at 12:02

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BlE1BdOAfVc

http://www.youtube.com/embed/paCUhiUxxIw

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