Sciencemadness Discussion Board

advice please! Seller snafu 500ml 70% HNO3 ACS Reagent shipped to residence not my llc

spukhafte Fernwirkung - 7-5-2013 at 13:17

Repost from legal: . Hi, been lurking for a while this is my first post. I have an LLC, am a external collaborator/particle physicist with CERN. Like most of you: anything related to the "higher 'purity'" sciences. Chemistry being a facet of physics is of large interest to me , while not my concentrated field of study persay. I have no doubt on my credibility to have legitimate reason to procure even some 'eye brow raising' chems. Still: there are ways to do things properly and ways that can make you the target of audit level scrutiny and defending your intentions. So: when I ordered HNO3 I Requested it be shipped to my llc name and brick and mortar commercial address. unfortunatley: the seller sent it to my billing address/residence. There was no one there to sign for it, and they couldn't find the 'apartment number' of the residence. My residence is the top two stories of a metropolitan 3 floor storefront. My question: its held for pickup. Addressed to me, not my corporate entity, at my residence not my commercial location. Is it more trouble than it's worth to pick it up? Or am I over conservative in my perception of the regulations? I know we're a far cry from the freedom we had just 80 years ago to tinker with the matter around us: do I refuse shipment? Do I just explain myself? Also: is there a list of std. Regulated chem and what's needed to procure them without persecution? Something smaller than the litanous ACS web list? Thanks in advance for your advice and anecdotal experiences.

chemcam - 7-5-2013 at 15:34

We can't really advise unless we know the country but really as long as you didn't order it along side sulfuric acid and glycerin or something similar, you should be good. No need for double posts pretty much all members are active through each sub-forum. Personally I don't receive hazardous chemicals by mail but I go in person to get them. I feel that its safer to go in person because then the people see who I am and feel secure that I won't do stupid things. If I were you, I would go pick it up and act like its an everyday thing, have confidence, if youre nervous and sweaty you're up to no good.

radagast - 7-5-2013 at 17:11

Without knowing more about your location, I don't think anyone can advise you. That being said, unless you have other reagents that in combination with HNO3 clearly establish that you're making something illegal, I can't imagine why you wouldn't pick it up. There are plenty of uses for nitric acid (e.g. gold recovery, electroplating) and 500 mL is a relatively small amount.

If you're in the United States, the DEA publishes a list of amounts for listed chemicals that trigger heightened scrutiny. I asked them once whether I needed to file any paperwork for ordering a liter of acetic anhydride, and they informed me that this amount was so far under the threshold that I didn't need to file anything. (Of course, that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to have that reagent if you have morphine lying around).

spukhafte Fernwirkung - 7-5-2013 at 17:15

Thanks. Both for the posting tip and on the shipping tip! It's U.S. so, I don't know what alarms people these days. Everyone is super sensative to the slightest fear it seems (and I.e. the LHC " is going to create a singularity" once the T8.. repairs are done and we're up to 14TeV ;) ). I figured it'd be not a big problem but wanted to make sure it wasn't *highly illegal* to get it delivered residential and that by accepting even with documentation of seller error: I would get possibly slapped with fines or charges for something stupid. I shared a piece of My background because while not a highly advanced chemist: I'm (if what I said is true) not up to no good (i.e. clandestine lab) , just looking to avoid unneccessary hassle, without that I'm sure the advice would vary greatly. Just wanted to avoid having to sail to Geneva or a vacation in Hawaii instead of fly because of one cro magnon vendor's error. Thanks for your help!!!! Was just skeptical when most companies refuse to ship to residential.

spukhafte Fernwirkung - 7-5-2013 at 17:18

Quote: Originally posted by radagast  
(Of course, that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to have that reagent if you have morphine lying around).


:D LOL

binaryclock - 7-5-2013 at 20:15

What I don't get is that you can make a really powerful explosive device just by using table salt and electricity. However they ban other oxidizers like it's going out of style. I guess they just can't ban salt, electricity and water?

Magpie - 7-5-2013 at 20:41

Quote: Originally posted by binaryclock  
I guess they just can't ban salt, electricity and water?


They would if they could. But they only ban what is convenient to ban. Gasoline and guns will not be banned.

spukhafte Fernwirkung - 8-5-2013 at 07:01

haha. Right, and we'll fear our cleanest most efficient form of harnessing energy as the plebeian Type .7 (0) civilization we are, simply because if the discovery of splitting an atom to harness nuclear energy led to the Atom Bomb then all things nuclear (the human body? ;)) must also be feared. We'll lash Prometheus to a cliff and as eagles claw out his entrails; we'll watch "biggest loser" in our hearth warmed homes; because without fire we wouldn't have gunpowder: and that has just been nothing but a 'headache' for us.

I say we eliminate O^8 altogether, it's much harder to transmute chemical to kinetic energy in an anaerobic environment.

"A question that sometimes drives me hazy; "Am I, or are the others crazy?""

That's why the hesitation. No matter how succinct the reason is with logic: people with less of a handle on Occam's razor will fear what they do not understand; and sadly: science has somewhat of a lineage of being persecuted from the fear in less than amply lit minds. I didn't want to rely on "Well, I didn't know it was a problem, or think it was wrong. Apologies" as a defense.

Listen buddy: If I wanted to watch the world burn instead of trying to improve life: I'd have became a priest or a lawyer.

aliced25 - 12-5-2013 at 19:34

Quote: Originally posted by spukhafte Fernwirkung  
Quote: Originally posted by radagast  
(Of course, that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to have that reagent if you have morphine lying around).


:D LOL


I can't, offhand, think of too many reagents that would look good if you have morphine lying around. The morphine lying around bit is the key:P