Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Safety equipment

Safety equipment

nimbus8 - 3-8-2013 at 17:14

Hey everyone, what would you recommend for general safety equipment. Now obviously there will be specific procedures for certain chemicals.

So far i have safety goggles, tyvek suit, and chemical resistant gloves.

ElectroWin - 3-8-2013 at 17:31

depends on what you're doing; fume hood, emergency shower, blast barriers,atropine, ...

Variscite - 3-8-2013 at 17:37

Im still wondering on what goggles are the best, ive been looking at Uvex ones. They seem nice.

plante1999 - 3-8-2013 at 17:38

Faceshield. I got pretty bad marks WHILE I was wearing googles. Hot acid does not make healthy burns.

violet sin - 3-8-2013 at 18:55

I fully concur. face shield. don't forget an assortment of gloves latex, neoprene, nitrile. better than just one type if there is an overlooked incompatibility part way into something. leather apron and gloves are great to have, but not always a necessity. respirator with replaceable cartridges can be nice. the painters ones that filter out VOC's and some acids to certain levels are good.

after I spilled sulfuric acid on myself from being over confident I got a bunch of stuff. was ACE drain cleaner, and strong. made a little steam when I sprayed water on it to was the stuff off. blisters the whole fun of it all. ate holes in my clothes and work tools when it splashed every where. word to the wise, if you are working in a basement and have a normal metal door knob.... put something on the handle for grip. I almost had to break down my door b/c the acid on my hands was dissolving skin and made for a horrible gripping surface. both hands as tight as I could muster ( work construction so got a good grip) BARELY opened the door. things to think about. don't get complacent with inadequate stop-gaps and just rely on the " I just won't spill it" method, ok.

I mixed up 2 baking soda gallon jugs, with an inch of excess not dissolved on the bottom. set out a 5 gall pail of plain water with a lid. and a metal bucket w/ sand and lid for overheating/flammable stuff. like stated above you have to base these on your level of skill and what you plan on doing. I clearly needed a refresher course in safety before dealing with strong acids. thing was I have a pool and deal with hydrochloric all the time so I got use to messing with it bare foot in shorts etc. but think of the best, plan for the worst and always try to have a back-up back-up.

Mailinmypocket - 4-8-2013 at 07:03

One of these... Costed me about $20, never had to use it but I keep it within reach when doing experiments. Safety goggles are obviously the first line of defense but should you ever need to rinse your eyes this makes it a hell of a lot easier!

confused - 4-8-2013 at 15:50

for me

normal experiments:labcoat,goggles, long pants, covered footwear(for labwork only)

anything that produces hazzardous/irritant fumes:full face respirator(with appropriate cartridges) in addition with the other safety gear

hazardous cleanup:tyvek suit, shoe covers, full face respirator

i dont have a faceshield, i use my respirator in lieu of it, since its also impact resistant polycarbonate
also, don't have much in the way of eyewash or emergency showers

and yes, uvex goggles are pretty good, i use a pair for general labwork

[Edited on 4-8-2013 by confused]

testimento - 4-8-2013 at 16:27

- Goggles or preferably full face shield

- Full body protective clothing, preferably plastic lined to prevent instant decay on strong chemicals (chemical industry suits are cheap and best)

- Chemical gloves that endure all chemicals that are used in the process

- Full face gas mask with high quality chemical filter, suitable for chemicals involved in process
(Compressed air breathing source when operating in conditions that involve fumes that are not filtered or are in very high content, for ex. carbon monoxide or large toxic chemical leak)

- Fume hood with powerful ex-proof line fan and activated carbon filter
liquid scrubbers are preferred when handling solid impurities and chemicals that are not filtered by ACF

- The working space should be fitted with leak pool linings and a drain valve which can be closed to prevent excessively hazardous or large amounts of chemicals from getting into sewage system. The fume hood should have at least 50mm edge lined with PTFE or other inert sheet to contain all the leaks.

- Fireproofing equipment, including a water hose suitable for mass extinguishing, CO2 for electric materials or powder or foam applications. All flammable materials should be contained within fireproof, contained metallic cabin and must be kept within good distance from workspace and all chemicals that are not in use, should be kept off from the workspace to minimize the amount of burning material in case of accident. It's a good idea to have the fume hood with a window that can be closed in case of fire or other trouble and make a hole on the wall to inject CO2 inside the hood to distinguish the fire within seconds and contain all the fumes within. I once used this when the line fan caused ether vapors to caught fire and there was one beaker of ether inside the fume hood that instantly caused large fire. The fume hood and everything inside it, including distilling apparatus, survived intact due to quick response and the work was finished with success.

All electronic devices should have a single kill-switch in direction where the user can instantly switch the power off in case of accident to prevent possible electric sparks from causing fire with easily combustible materials, or causing electric shock when extinguishing. Gas bottles must always be kept at distance of several meters from the workspace so that they can be disconnected at once in case of accident.

The larger amounts of chemicals are involved, the more important the safety factors become. It's totally different to spill a 100ml beaker of ethanol on a table than rupturing a barrel of ether. When I work on tabletop scale with maximum of a liter or two of non-toxic chemicals, I wear mostly only goggles and gloves and choose clothes that won't catch fire easily, and with fuming chemicals I use full face gas mask. With these I have one powder extinguisher within hand reach. When handling larger amounts of hazardous chemicals, I do other extra precautions, mostly consisting of improved ventilation and firefighting measures.

If one handles explosive materials, there should also be another safety factor involving distance from occupied structures, immediate ice-cooling bath in case of overrun reactions, and in case of storage, a good distance or a barrier of sand. I used to keep some detonators within box that was lined with 30cm layer of sand. I tested the structure to withstand 50 grams blast of TNT with only a little "THUMP" upon detonation. This will also minimize the risk that the state will find out your hobby. If possible, a remote control during synthesis behind a good blast barrier is always a good idea: even gram-scale detonation of most explosives has enough force to drive glass and tool shrapnel through quite thick materials, including heavy protective gear, and even larger amounts(scale of 100's of grams) are enough to cause instant fatality in all cases within few meters around workplace regardless of personal safety gear.

For normal amateur chemist setup, simple rules:

-Wear face and glove protection and respirator if working with fuming stuff
-Make fire extinguisher ready
-Make sure there are no burning stuff around your workspace
-Make quick switch for all electronics and gases
-Always know the chemicals and reactions and possible side reactions of every chemical involved your experiments. Never do, if you don't fully know, check several sources to correct information.

Oscilllator - 4-8-2013 at 23:43

Often doing the experiment outside can be just as good as a fume hood, especially if there is a breeze about. For example when distilling nitric acid outside I almost never notice any NO2 smell, since its all carried away by the wind

ElizabethGreene - 5-8-2013 at 05:34

I am generally underequipped for safe work, and have limit my experiments because of it.

I use Nitrile gloves and Safety Goggles whenever I'm in the garage/lab. I have a box fan that provides more comfort than ventilation. Anything noxious or toxic gets done out on the driveway or put on the list to do "later". My workbenches have a plywood top and are covered with clear "contact paper" (a thin flexible plastic with an adhesive back)

For emergency response:
I have a gallon of water and a gallon of saturated Sodium Bicarbonate solution within arms reach. I also have an open box of Sodium Bicarbonate right next to it. I have a bucket of wet sand available to douse fires.

Future work:
Cheap:
Dry sand is better than wet sand. I should spread this out to dry.
Bentonite Aka Cheap kitty litter would be good for absorbing liquid spills.
An Apron would be nice, as would a face shield.
I have an N95 mask, but a respirator would be better when dealing with powders like that sulfur I was working on.
Rope rings or wooden circles so I'll have a safe place to set down RBFs.
A panic button to bring assistance from in the house.

Not Cheap:
A proper fire extinguisher.
A fume hood or glove box of sufficient size to permit distillation and refluxing.
A heat and chemical resistant work surface with a backsplash to keep kit from falling behind the bench would be very nice.
A sink with running water and a drain would be fantastic!
An eye wash station.
More Shelves.

Hexavalent - 5-8-2013 at 06:06

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

One of these... Costed me about $20, never had to use it but I keep it within reach when doing experiments. Safety goggles are obviously the first line of defense but should you ever need to rinse your eyes this makes it a hell of a lot easier!

Does it come pre-filled with saline solution, or do you supply your own?

Mailinmypocket - 5-8-2013 at 06:23

It comes empty. You can buy the saline solution, but it expires after a month or so and is quite expensive. I just make my own saline and change it every so often. At first I was curious to see if there would be any problems with mold and whatnot as there is no preservative but nope, no issues. I was always under the impression that an eye wash was expensive (thinking of the wall mounted ones) but the standalone refillable bottle is quite affordable to have at home.

prof_genius - 5-8-2013 at 23:07

You should get a first aid kit (with burn gel) and a eyewash.

Tdep - 6-8-2013 at 02:51

"A proper fire extinguisher"

Obviously CO2 extinguishers have their limitations, but are they still the best option? If not, what's the best fire extinguisher type for a home lab setting?

testimento - 6-8-2013 at 03:19

CO2 is for electric fires and it leaves no residue to clean. It is an asphyxiant, so in contained spaces like small rooms even a small CO2 extinguisher can cause danger to persons.

Powder extinguishers are best for chem stuff, they can be cleaned off rather painlessly and they are quite powerful.

One should build a fume hood by himself if no used are not for sale. New ones cost easily a thousand bucks. I have 1500x700x1500mm fume hood made from plywood and PC faceshield equipped with activated carbon filter or lye scrubber and line fan for highly toxic and dangerous materials.

Tdep - 6-8-2013 at 04:24

I might consider getting a powder one then, it sounds like a smart idea.

Also, has anyone had any experience with a Class D extinguisher? The metal fire fighting ones? Is it a waste of time for a home setting, like is it just better to have a bucket of sand and some good running shoes?

ElizabethGreene - 6-8-2013 at 05:29

All this talk about an eye wash station and #@(@$# if I didn't get metal chips in my eye last night. :/

bfesser - 6-8-2013 at 06:35

<strong>ElizabethGreene</strong>, I hope your vision is alright! Please, tell us what happened, so we can try to avoid such mishaps in the future.

I seemed to be cursed at my last job. I once got the phosphor powder from two fluorescent lamps <a href="viewthread.php?tid=10163#pid141731">in my eyes</a>. Then there was the time I splashed bleach {NaOCl(aq)} in my eyes, only to find that the 'fixed' eyewash station still wasn't working. And the time a large glass and steel clock fell off the wall and hit me in the face, glass first. Or the time I slipped on ice and fell down the insanely steep serrated metal stairs to the roof hatch (like <a href="http://www.cs.grinnell.edu/~walker/phase2/06-07-19/original-photos/stairs.jpg" target="_blank">these</a> <img src="../scipics/_ext.png" />

and fractured my ankle. ...the time I electrocuted myself with 220 VAC while on my back in a puddle of water... ...the multiple concussions, lacerations, burns, and electric shocks... ...and that goddamn box cutter!

Needless to say, I performed a lot of hazardous tasks at that job. Surprisingly, I was the head of the store safety committee, and the one who always insisted other people follow safety regulations and were aware of any hazards!

[Edited on 6.8.13 by bfesser]

ElizabethGreene - 6-8-2013 at 12:29

Quote:

I hope your vision is alright! Please, tell us what happened, so we can try to avoid such mishaps in the future.

I was tapping a hole in an aluminum lawnmower deck spindle, and used compressed air to clean the chips. Some unexpected fluid/aerodynamics later and I took two random bits of aluminum to the eye. I flushed it (and my shirt and the mower deck and the floor) with a gallon of distilled water. I am undamaged.

ScienceHideout - 6-8-2013 at 19:13

I always say that the best personal protection is the knowledge of the chemicals you are working with, along with the reactions involved with them. If you have this you will be 99.9% safe.

Of course, in addition you need a few things.
Goggles, gloves, a lab coat, ventilation device, and of course a sink. Sinks are for washing skin and eyes. I hear that those plastic eye washes are not always good for everything. Regular flowing water is much better. I also have a portable showerhead that I can quickly attatch to the faucet in a matter of seconds to drench myself if needed

P.S. Kitty litter is awesome

bfesser - 1-11-2013 at 11:58

[thred-rez]

Quote: Originally posted by ScienceHideout

I also have a portable showerhead that I can quickly attatch to the faucet in a matter of seconds to drench myself if needed.

Not a good plan. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to accomplish simple tasks or even complete basic coherent thoughts when your hair is on fire, your face is covered in splattered lye, or you're temporarily blinded by bleach—speaking from experience. If it involved threaded connections; you'd be fucked. I prefer something you can find while drunk, blindfolded, and wearing earplugs; where you can just smash a huge paddle, stomp on a peddle, or pull a giant lever to get drenched in life and limb saving water.

Pyro - 1-11-2013 at 13:40

bfesser, I just read your accidents, seems like you are just about as lucky as I am.
My family has especially bad luck with electricity, I have been shocked twice with 380VAC, once while standing in a ft. of water, twice with 220VAC in one day and a few times with 24VDC.
not to mention my dad who got a whole 10 000V from a radar in the coast guard.

bfesser - 1-11-2013 at 21:44

Hehe. I re-read that post myself this morning. Those are just the accidents I could recall offhand and specific to working at that job! I hesitate to label myself as accident prone, because I'm generally quite safe and meticulously cautious and careful about things, but accidents and injuries just seem to be attracted to me. Perhaps it's because I'm always so active in interacting with broken machines and investigating failures.

True fact: among other interesting things (gravel deeply embedded in tissue and what the doctor thought was a broken off pencil lead?) you would see (I have seen) on an x-ray of my left hand (I'm heavily right-handed) are strange marks on several bones. The cause? Drills. Yeah, I've been dumb enough to hold something in one hand, and use a drill on it with the other... more than once!!! I guess I'm not good at learning from some of my mistakes; but at least I'm physically resilient and good at healing.

I've actually been told <em>many many many times</em> that I was bleeding profusely from a head wound or other such injury that I hadn't even noticed. Other people tend to inform me when I'm injured, rather than me finding out for myself.

Pro-tip: good quality (not the 99¢ rolls) vinyl electrical tape is better than Band-Aid®s—and much more economical—for cuts on hands from box-cutters, etc.

[/rambling]

[Edited on 2.11.13 by bfesser]

Pyro - 2-11-2013 at 01:38

ouch, never had a drill accident before, sounds painful! Can bone damage not be very bad in some cases?

hmm, I have burnt myself way too many times, I've cut off the first 3mm of my index finger with a machete, there was that time I was trimming my nails in bed with my pocket knife only to lose it and be too lazy to get up and look for it, the next morning withe my white sheets not looking so white anymore, the time I cut my finger to the bone, the time the hatch fell on my head, pushing my forehead into the steel edge, I have a 3cm scar between my eybrows, or when a horse threw me and I got a galloping hoof on my knee on the way down and couldn't walk for a week

not an accident, but something pretty funny: When I was young and my parents were building the boat I was playing around in the engine room, once the main engine

was in place, they noticed a bolt was missing from the generator. When asked I gave the vague answer "in the main engine". they pulled apart the entire engine again, but found it in the cylinder head

I find that flesh sticks together pretty well once the blood has stopped flowing.

bfesser - 2-11-2013 at 09:16

Actually, I hadn't noticed that I drilled into my hand until I saw every object I'd handled covered in bright red blood. With a sharp enough drill bit, I didn't even feel it.

safety consciousness

quantumchromodynamics - 2-11-2013 at 12:45

I continue to experiment with HF HV devices. It is interesting how HF HV safety precautions are analogous to chemistry precautions.

In HV you always do a full set of measurements with a low voltage excitement in order to verify your setup and comprehension is expected. The chemical analogy is to perform miniature test reactions.

When HV is online you must always be aware of where both of your hands are, and only manipulate the system with one hand. This sounds simple but it requires discipline. For example, you can't lean on something with one hand and move a wire with the other hand. In any lab work it seems important to always be conscious of both hands. This definitely applies to the chemistry of energetic materials.

For me, the most important safety precaution is a kind of mental check. Always move slowly, and if you get confused, or something random pops into your head immediately stop moving and think. Always reserve the option not to do something. You can always wait a few extra seconds to think. If you feel so tired or time constrained that a few extra seconds is wasting time, then shut everything down and go do something else.

[Edited on 2-11-2013 by quantumchromodynamics]

Magpie - 2-11-2013 at 13:21

Excellent analogy, quantum. I have been working with a high pressure Hg arc tube recently that produces UV light that will burn the retina and skin. I have placed the power switch in a location such that I cannot see this light except by its reflection from a dark irregular surface.

Another good check is to fully assemble any complicated apparatus before loading any chemicals and greasing the connections.

A further good precaution is to leak check the apparatus before charging any chemicals. I failed to do this recently and therefore likely wasted a lot of Cl2.

Arthur Dent - 3-11-2013 at 09:02

Not as elaborate as the eye wash station, a plain "eye bath" kit is only a few bucks and always a good thing to have at hand when working with hazardous chems. Mind the expiration date though, I wouldn't use a solution that's a year older than the actual expiration date.

As for kitty litter, it's awesome cheap and great for spillage (just make sure the bag is open so you don't have to fiddle with it in case of emergency), and empty gallon jugs of water can be used for a saturated solution of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize moderate acid spills. A big glass jar with the contents of 3 or 4 boxes of Cow Brand can also be handy for big nasty acid spills.

As stated by all the previous posters, a full frontal apron, good gloves, good goggles and a full face shield are a must if you're going to play with corrosive stuff.

Beyond that, you'll have to determine what you'll need based on what you want to do.

Rob

Sorry for the delayed reply

ScienceHideout - 3-11-2013 at 14:03

Quote: Originally posted by bfesser

[thred-rez]

Quote: Originally posted by ScienceHideout

I also have a portable showerhead that I can quickly attatch to the faucet in a matter of seconds to drench myself if needed.

Sorry it took me so long to reply...
It is not a threaded connection- I rigged up a cork to the end to it, so all I have to do is shove it into the end of the sink. It is pretty simple, but I can agree with you that it might be difficult to do in an emergency- however, for now, there is not much of a substitute. Perhaps I could permanently attach a y connector to the faucet, and put a valve on one side, and have the shower head always attached to that. I may do this in the future, but I feel that what I have now is 100000000x better than nothing!

P.S. Arthur- Do you plan on opening your eyewash bottle? Having a bottle sitting there means less packaging to take off when there is an emergency.

[Edited on 3-11-2013 by ScienceHideout]