Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Diethyl ether

Diethyl ether

madscientist - 20-10-2002 at 17:31

Does anyone have a suggestion as for a good source of diethyl ether?

Starter Fluid

PrimoPyro - 20-10-2002 at 17:33

Go to Thrifties/Rite-Aid/Walmart, etc.

Get the aerosol engine starter fluid that contains diethyl ether as the active ingredient and isobutane as the propellant. They are cheap, like $1.00 a can. Seriously.

Great fuel for potato cannons btw.

PrimoPyro

... not plastic ones

Ramiel - 24-10-2002 at 00:15

I proudly own a 2m long plastic spud gun which works just fine, but if i were to use ethers, the PVC would split and the ether may possibly cause corrosion; i know ketones and primary alchohols do at least.

That is sooo vague though

PrimoPyro - 24-10-2002 at 01:12

There are billions of types of plastic. Also note that some of these must be imperveous to alcoholic/ether attack because these solvents are often stored in plastic bottles! [laugh]

My particular potato cannon is made from plastic. It was made by acid-sealing seperate pieces of 1/4" thick plumbing pipe together, the black kind.

I have never used any other fuel in this one besides aerosol ether, and it has yet to begin to show any wear and tear. It is over 4 years old by the way.

Ive never used acetone as a fuel, but I bet it would stand up to acetone too. Ether works better, so I never try anything else.

PrimoPyro

ned to know!!!!

Lou Saffer - 17-1-2004 at 13:24

hopfully someone will see this buired here and reply!!!(!this is a mighty old thread )all the starting fluid i see is ether AND haptane!! is there a way to separate the two aside from distillation? i have
heard of spraying it out of the can and into water and sep funneling but i dont see how this would be helpful...... or is my ignorance showing again??? thanxs 4 your help this is one of my first posts!!!

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Lou Saffer]

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Lou Saffer]

vulture - 17-1-2004 at 14:24

You might get more help if you'd compose your posts properly and didn't use so many exclamation marks...

Ether

chloric1 - 17-1-2004 at 17:04

OK I saw the stuff at the Dollar store and I thought of getting about 9 cans but that would be obviously suspicious so I did not get any at the time. I have contemplated mixting the stuff with muriatic acid. Seriously, Merk index list ether as soluble in HCL. Once ether is in the HCL and separated from the heptane, then you need only to neutralize with household ammonia or baking soda.

This idea sounds better already!

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by chloric1]

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by chloric1]

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by chloric1]

Al Koholic - 17-1-2004 at 17:27

I have made it from ethanol and sulfuric acid before with good yield. A nice fun reaction if you want one to do in your spare time. Anyway, it is a bit of a waste of conc. H2SO4 but if you have tons....

I usually just buy a can of starter fluid and empty it into a beaker that is suspended in an ice-bath or just do it outside now that its cold as hell. Be sure to check the label though as some kinds have heptane mixed in with the ether. If you only need a non-polar solvent then fine but if the ether needs to be pure you are probably better off finding the stuff that doesn't have heptane and then distilling it.

BromicAcid - 17-1-2004 at 19:16

Quote:

A nice fun reaction if you want one to do in your spare time. Anyway, it is a bit of a waste of conc. H2SO4 but if you have tons....

Well even if you don't have tons it doesn't spoil the acid, just dilutes it down, if I have H2SO4 already on a hot plate just needing a bit of condensing, then I just crank up the heat.

Anyway, make the ether, being careful to use lower temperatures otherwise you start to make ethylene then when the temperature starts to abruptly rise discontinue collecting the distillate and let it rise, eventually water will come over and finally it will start to fume.

Most of us have concentrated H2SO4 before so I'm assuming I'm telling you nothing new. Just wanted to get across that it's not a waste of H2SO4, the only thing you need for the reaction is lots of electricity turned to heat.

Saerynide - 18-1-2004 at 06:19

I found it for sale in a drug store for removing plaster. It was called "Dissolv" or something like that. It was about $2-3 for 100 mL.

But then I dont live in the US, so dont flame me again for "lying about my resources", Hermes

1 more ether related ?

Lou Saffer - 18-1-2004 at 13:23

o.k now that i have been set right by Al Koholic(thanks)....(my mistake was purchasing the truly cheap starting fluid)on further investigation i realize only the cheap stuff is ether/heptane mixed. but now i am wondering about the storage life of this ether that i am currently setting up to distill.Stored in amber leak proof, (reasonably)air tight jar how long could i hope to store it safely? Does something i read at some point (i dont remember where)about adding pieces of copper to the bottom of the jar to handle the production of any peroxides apply here? Any help would be appreciated as i have now bought alot of starting fluid and am wondering if i should distill it all at once and store it with the rest of my solvents (much easier,less time consuming)or store it in the cans and prepare it as i need it for individual projects? thanks again!B

To what end?

Hermes_Trismegistus - 18-1-2004 at 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by chloric1
I have contemplated mixting the stuff with muriatic acid. Seriously, Merk index list ether as soluble in HCL. Once ether is in the HCL and separated from the heptane, then you need only to neutralize with household ammonia or baking soda.

This idea sounds better already!

If you neutralize the HCl, it won't be HCl anymore! You better check the solublity with the mix you're gonna make.

Also, I think that the partial pressure law applies here (as much as it would apply to vapour pressure) and you would have a volatile mix of solvent/acid, solvent/???

What would this accomplish? If storage is your aim, solvent bottles vary greatly in price. Perhaps a reasonable alternative would be an empty (metal) acetone/white gas can with a liberal amount of teflon tape on the threads.

BromicAcid - 18-1-2004 at 18:56

Quote:

Originally posted by chloric1
Seriously, Merk index list ether as soluble in HCL. Once ether is in the HCL and separated from the heptane, then you need only to neutralize with household ammonia or baking soda.

I've found that ether is soluble in liquid HCl, as in not the aqueous solution. From your post you make it sound like it's soluble in the aqueous solution. I do not believe it is except for to a very small extent.

I believe distillation would be the best way to go on this one. As for storage, Capri Sun now makes a handy grab and go bottle made entirely of aluminum with a stainless bottom that seems quite reminiscent of the ether bottles I use in my lab classes.

As for the copper wire I think that I read something on that at Rhodium... or somewhere...

Clarification

chloric1 - 19-1-2004 at 16:51

Ok I guess I didn't get my entire point accross. Dissolution of ether is ONLY a means to separate it from heptane. Once the acid is neutralized I would expect a cloudiness and eventual reseparation of ether in the upper layer, hence minus heptane. Then I would perform a calcium chloride dehydration and distillation in a water bath. I cannot always find the "pure" ether fluid and this is really an academic exercise. It would be easier and cheaper to create ether from Everclear and sulfuric acid but this method affords ether on the fly. :cool:

ether still

Organikum - 24-1-2004 at 09:26

Build one.

Not many things are so easily made by amateur chemists like ether and chloroform.