Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Chloramine??

jimmyboy - 19-9-2004 at 14:13

I was messing with a synth for ammonium chloride and decided to damp some ammonium sulfate with a little isopropanol (a few drops) and then add calcium hypochlorite - the reaction was nasty - it bubbled and hissed and a thick acrid vapor formed - after all was done i added some water and was left with what looked like calcium sulfate on the bottom and ammonium chloride floating around in the solution forming crystals -- what on earth was the vapor - man was that nasty - it wasnt chlorine (not green) - it was a whitish color - maybe it was the chloride as well but i've been around ammonium chloride vapor and it was never nasty like this and it didnt have the ammonia scent - almost was like hydrochloric to me. Im still toying with what happened exactly. Any ideas would be good.

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 19-9-2004 at 17:58

Calcium hypochlorite is acidic, maybe the acid action was sufficient to liberate some ammonia, ammonia+a hypochlorite does generate chloramine, along with some hydrazine, although not very much in the case of a reaction not optimised for hydrazine production, and I think, some incredibly small amount of NCl3, although I'm not sure on that last one.

Aparrently, I just UTFSE for chloramine, and it dissociates to Cl, NH3 and free oxygen radicals inside the lungs, could explain it.

I have tried to gas ammonia through bleach before in a failed attempt at making NCl3, I always though chloramine was yellow though, could be due to trace amounts, and I MEAN trace, of NCl3, I couldn't find a MSDS on google for chloramine, it all came up with chloramine-T, some sort of water chlorination agent.

jimmyboy - 19-9-2004 at 18:12

hmmm - i always thought calcium hypochlorite was alkaline - my other theory is maybe it was hypochlorous acid - and that reacted with the ammonia resulting in ammonium chloride and water vapor

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 19-9-2004 at 18:36

Hypochlorous acid is pretty unstable, and wouldnt the combination of that with NH3 yield ammonium hypochlorite?

JohnWW - 19-9-2004 at 19:22

The decomposition should release Cl2 and OH- ions, which would chlorinate any NH3 or ammonium salts present to chloramines, i.e. NH2Cl, NHCl2, and finally NCl3.

John W.

vulture - 20-9-2004 at 00:31

Solutions of calcium hypochlorite are alkaline, because hypochlorous acid is a weak acid and because it's usually contaminated with calciumhydroxide.

Esplosivo - 20-9-2004 at 05:08

Sodium hypochlorite is listed as incompatible with ammonium sulfate in the MSDS. Sodium and calcium hypochlorites are quite similar.

What occured is probably due to the fact that a solution of ammonium sulfate in water is acidic, due to the stronger conjugate acid. An acid would react with the OCl- to produce Cl2. The rxn of Cl2 with the ammonium sulfate were already mentioned.

[Edited on 20-9-2004 by Esplosivo]

jimmyboy - 20-9-2004 at 17:08

After looking awhile in Othmer i found that impurities catalyze a reverse reaction between hydrazine and chloramine which form N2 + Ammonium Chloride which explains what happened pretty well.

Thanks

JohnWW - 20-9-2004 at 22:03

But, how would hydrazine, N2H4, come to be formed in the reaction solution, with an ammonium salt, under consideration here?

John W.

Careful!

hodges - 21-9-2004 at 15:31

Ammonium salts and hypochlorites can, under the wrong conditions, produce an extremely unstable high explosive (nitrogen trichloride). Have a look at this link describing what happened when hypochlorite was added to a tank that previously contained urea. I realize there is a difference between urea and ammonium salts, but some the the same reactions can occur with either.

http://www.chemaxx.com/explosion16a.htm

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 21-9-2004 at 19:40

I take it the right..COUGH..wrong conditions for NCl3 formation include a highly acidic environment?

Judging that is, from that incident with the tank of bleach that was posted, jeebus H christ, that was scary, that much NCl3 simply shouldnt be, ANYWHERE, EVER:o