Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Storage of H2sSO4, and HCI

Storage of H2sSO4, and HCI

batsman - 22-8-2013 at 07:13

Hey, i just bougt some acids, and some of them had leaked into the bag, from the bottles on arrival, and into the cardboard box.

I put them in the basement, but i was thinking, what should i do?

mr.crow - 22-8-2013 at 07:34

HCl is nasty shit as I'm sure you're about to find out. H2SO4 doesn't fume though. Keep it outdoors for now, not in the basement or garage.

Get a proper bottle, like a Boston Round with a polycone lined cap. The type of cap is important. Transfer the acid to the bottle, wrap electrical tape around the cap and affix a label. But the bottle in a plastic bag along with an open container of baking soda to catch fumes. Keep the bag inside a cardboard box.

[Edited on 22-8-2013 by mr.crow]

batsman - 22-8-2013 at 07:47

It did not break of anything like that, it is just a couple of drops in there. I tried to lean the bottles to see if they leaked, but they didn´t.

I live in a apartment building, so i dont want to store them outdoors where the kids, and the kids in the neighbourhood can get a hold of them.

I took a look at the bottles. Looks like a cool company, with many interesting stuff besides the bottles. Is it a german company? Is say Berlin something in their logo.

[Edited on 22-8-2013 by batsman]

plante1999 - 22-8-2013 at 07:51

You should not have bought HCl then, it can't be stored inside without severe corrosion, at least not in the original bottle, need to be in a box with lots of sodium carbonate in it. Never ever use it inside, I have done in the past, and rusted thousand s of dollars worth of material.

H2SO4 is perfect for the inside though

batsman - 22-8-2013 at 08:04

I didn´t know that. Do i need to always store HCI outside?

Ps. I bought 5, 1 liter HDPE bottles. Should you advice me to transfer the HCI into them, and keep them outdoors?

Mailinmypocket - 22-8-2013 at 08:09

HCl can be stored inside. Get a bucket with a snap on lid at Home Depot (in the paint section), cover the bottom with baking soda and put the bottle in that and snap the lid on. I have been storing mine like that for years, near metal, without consequence. Electrical tape around the cap might help if they are crappy caps.

MrHomeScientist - 22-8-2013 at 09:52

I have basically the same setup as Mailinmypocket - mine is a large Rubbermaid tub with a lot of baking soda layered on the bottom, and I store all my acids in this. No smell escapes the tub, and nothing around it has rusted in the ~3 years I've stored things this way. It's a very nice storage solution. You can certainly transfer your acid into smaller bottles if you like. I have my gallon jug of original solution, and a small 500mL glass bottle that I use for every day experimentation. It's much easier to handle, and avoids the risk of contaminating your whole supply if you make a mistake. I wouldn't worry about keeping your acid in the bottle it came in - it was made to hold the acid, after all. I also strongly advise working with fuming acids (HCl, HNO₃) outside.

mr.crow - 22-8-2013 at 10:52

I store HCl inside using the method I described, it seems to be OK.

Use glass, HCl gas will slowly leak through plastic. H2SO4 might slowly damage plastic too.

I think this is what happened, HCl fumes leaked out and reacted with moisture in the air.

Pyro - 22-8-2013 at 14:27

Buy a bottle or two like this brown one. It has a teflon lined lid, It is very effective for all chemicals including HCl, and you can also wrap teflon tape around the screw for extra security

[Edited on 22-8-2013 by Pyro]

subsecret - 22-8-2013 at 17:33

You could buy a five-gallon bucket at a hardware store, add a container of baking soda, and keep the acids in there...

A problem arises if acids happen to leak out of the bottles... The lid may blow off the container. Solve this by placing the bottles into a smaller dish-shaped container. I have yet to bucket my HCl...

MichiganMadScientist - 23-8-2013 at 05:43

I'm not a big fan of storing any liquids in anything but glass. The stuff is just so inert. The problem, then, is the type of caps you use on the glass bottles. I like the teflon-backed caps.

For me, HCL tends to hold up pretty well in Nalgene bottles. I'll swap the bottles about once a year, and have never had any issues.

I also store all of my smaller bottles in individual ziplock bags. That helps contain fumes if the bottle leaks.

I don't like the idea of ever storing strong bases and strong acids together, as Awesomeness suggests. IMHO, if one was to leak into the other, a potentially violent reaction could ensue....

Just my 2 cents, anywhoo.

woelen - 23-8-2013 at 11:11

I store my 30+% HCl in special bottles with a GL45 cap, which has a teflon liner inside. The bottle and cap are quite expensive (appr. EUR 10), but this is a one-time investment and it works exceptionally well. No fumes at all and the acid remains pure indefinitely.

subsecret - 23-8-2013 at 13:13

MMS, I agree with you that storing acids and bases together is potentially hazardous. A small amount of sodium bicarbonate in a dish wouldn't hurt, right?

I still have my 34.5% HCl in the original plastic bottle. It's just muriatic acid from the hardware store.. Is this recommended for long-term storage?

woelen - 23-8-2013 at 13:54

The original bottles apparently are somewhat porous and especially in wintertime they become wet and covered by a nasty acidic layer. This is really annoying and it causes every nearby metal object to rust like hell. So, I would not keep it in its plastic bottle but transfer it to a glass bottle with a sturdy cap (PP is OK, but teflon lined caps are even better).

Fantasma4500 - 24-8-2013 at 04:58

i think the whole thing with HCl is overrated, although i do have some wire hanging around where i work with acids, in the start where i didnt consider the acid vapours much it suddenly made tonnes of little neat rust spikes, this is steel wire..
that would be a mix of pretty well all the nastiest acid vapours you can get a hold of

if you just keep the HCl in a drawer or cabinet it wont tear stuff up that bad, perhaps put weak ammonia in a spray bottle or put a piece of tissue with abit of ammonia on it in the cabinet where you have acids to remove fumes? perhaps some DIY fancy anti-acid system?

i would say for storage PET should work, as in the standard hard plastic bottles, thin ones
you can put it in 0.5L bottles, then cut up some 1.5L bottles and put the 0.5L bottles in that, IN CASE it actually does decide to leak suddenly..

actually for HCl im quite sure that PVC bottles will work also

this is more of a ghetto storage, you can if you care to put some money aside get some decent containers for acid, the larger they are the more expensive, personally i like plastic more than glass as you dont need to worry for it breaking by putting it too hard on a table

MichiganMadScientist - 24-8-2013 at 14:14

Quote: Originally posted by Awesomeness

MMS, I agree with you that storing acids and bases together is potentially hazardous. A small amount of sodium bicarbonate in a dish wouldn't hurt, right?

I still have my 34.5% HCl in the original plastic bottle. It's just muriatic acid from the hardware store.. Is this recommended for long-term storage?

I think it all depends on how you store it. I just would never as a rule recommend storing any large quantity of a strong acid with a large quantity of strong base. What's the worst that could really happen? Probably a violent exothermic reaction and then a big mess, but that's about it I would imagine.

I guess I'm still trying to guess why you originally mentioned adding a container of baking soda to a 5-gallon bucket storing your bottles of HCL. If your bottles leak, the plastic bucket should contain it. 30% HCL is in my mind baselevel "concentrated acid."

And again Nalgene-type plastic seems to work fine for me for HCL. The only acids I have trouble storing in plastic is HNO3. That stuff's nasty, and the vapors will destroy anything they get near.

Here's my method of for storing strong acids/bases:
1) Sturdy plastic or glass bottle with appriate cap.
2) Place bottle inside gallon ziplock bag.
3) Place whole gig inside large beaker or 5-gallon bucket.

This is all just my humble ideas anyways...

[Edited on 24-8-2013 by MichiganMadScientist]