Short question / quick answer - Thread

Thanks for link..........and oters....But is impossible, that on bottom will arise as firstly crystals NaClO3, because he has much highly solubility than NaCl. It is against logical. And if yes, on how temperature cooling ? On Zero Celsia? I read almost all about it, but still I do not know how to make apart both compounds. I need some tutorial: Take 100 grams NaCl/O3.
Dissolve in 100g (??) distill water. Heated on boiling point 100 C. Cooling on 63 C ??
Separation NaCl crystals on filter. Solution is pure NaClO3 (99%). Tutorial not exist.

OK, I read all, it is system "salting out from the solution". Yet, that NaClO3 has highly solubility, is possible he get out from solution huge increase just simply NaCl. Absolut against reason..... It is as quantum physics. Nobody knows how is it possible, but work it. For sure I will rinsed in cell Schrödinger cat. Well, maximum simply method is increase NaCl + 10%, waiting on 70 C, again + 10% NaCl, again waiting on run temperature. ETC...
Until the cat climb out from solution.......LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

How apart NaClO3 from NaCl solution ? I have 100g mix NaClO3 + NaCl as dry crystals. This mix content : 50% NaCl + 50% NaClO3 Or also 10% NaCl + 90% NaClO3. It nobody know. Graph for NaCl is solubility 35g in 100g Water at 0 C. And 39g at 100 C. For NaClO3 is graph solubility : 80g at 0 Cels. and 200g at 100 Celsia. Exist some method recrystallization. I look on all S-M, but not find describe exactly how to make. Especially making so, for relatively best purity on NaClO3. NaClO3 estimate stay as solution. But at how concentration create before heating on 100 C ? Dissolving 200g mix-salts in 100g H2O at 99 C ? And after what? Decrease slowly temperature on 50 C? And by 50 Celsius separe NaCl ? Or separe by zero Celsius all crysralls ? Thanks.......... Exist 1000 tutorials how to make KClO3 but nothing for NaClO3. [Edited on 7-4-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

@LL,
you didn't do your homework wel ...everything is into this forum and especially into a tread in which you have replied...(*)

1°) Simply dry all the NaCl/NaClO3 (and NaClO4 if ever present)

2°) Then extract with dry aceton or ethanol....leave the unsoluble NaCl (NaCl is almost unsoluble into aceton while NaClO3 is soluble and NaClO4 even more)...solubility of NaCl into ethanol is low while NaClO3 and NaClO4 are much more soluble.

3°) evaporate the aceton/or ethanol (avoid too much heat and favor the use of a closed system to avoid risk of fuel-air explosion of aceton/ore ethanol vapour-flame point is quite low so risk is high) and condense it to recover the valuable solvent for reuse and some economical turnover.

4°) Collect the dry crystals from solvent evaporation...it is NaClO3 and NaClO4 if present.

(*)
Here are some interesting solubility tables into ethanol I have gathered
tables provided by PH Z into NH4ClO3 tread

And here is a little later reply where I wrote:
***********QUOTED from myself*********
Side note:
It is to be noted that into the tables one may see that for the case of NaCl/NaClO3...the use of aceton is preconized to effect separation because NaCl is quasi totally unsoluble into aceton while NaClO3 is very soluble in it and NaClO4 even more...
Here it seems it is also the case with absolute ethanol that is quite a good solvent for that specific chlorate and perchlorate but not a good one for NaCl...
This is very interesting for all the old weed killer (60% NaClO3/40% NaCl) bags I own or for the purification from electrolysis chlorate cell from chloride...
*********END OF QUOTE***********
Quoted from here
A reply further into the same NH4ClO3 tread

[Edited on 8-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
I invite you to search into this http://chemister.ru/Database/properties-en.php?dbid=1&id... and the upper left "Search in database (English) " then you can type NaCl for example and get solubilities at various températures and sometimes into different solvents than water...

[Edited on 8-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

solubility

Thanks Philou.. However I am before put questions about separation making dissolving process and tested solubility my mix just in acetone. Into 50 ml acetone was insert 25,9g of mix salts. Heated on 50 C and cooling on 25 C. However after filtration and evaporate acetone, was on inert surface only 0,03g some. Practicaly nothing. I find and look on table on wiki. I are same digits as in your recommend tables about solubility. My opinion was, that on wiki are bullshit. Why it say: Because this mix, after mixing in sugar ( ratio 35 sugar / 65 ) burning very quickly, same as should by this mix, from pure NaClO3 + sugar. And according a lot videos with pure NaClO3 + sugar it seem, that I have almost pure NaClO3. However in acetone total not soluble. Ethanol (14,7g/100ml) was not tested yet. Go on it.......LL

Good patent.. Very details about problematic solubility and next important things...Thanks...I´ve what for study on long times......LL

Quote: Originally posted by yobbo II

US 3151935 has some discussion regarding subject. If the acetone contains some water do you know what are the solubilities? or do they change much with a few % of water?

separation NaClO3

The problem with splitting, separating NaCl from NaClO3 resolved. Both substances were dissolved in the smallest possible amount of water, at temperature 20 C. The water is brought to a boil. Observing, watching level boiled solution. If on surface arises a gray coating - fine crystals, the solution is immediately (maximum hot) filtered.
Upstairs in the filter, during process filtering, arises crystalls NaCl. In solution bottom filter in flask, arises next crystalls NaCl, (after cooling to 20 Celsius. ) The solution is filtered or decantated at 20 C. We have Pure solution NaClO3 + water, in purity 99%. Done. For best purity is possibe process repeated again.
Self / answer sytem....Liptakov........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

The problem with splitting, separating NaCl from NaClO3 resolved. Both substances were dissolved in the smallest possible amount of water, at temperature 20 C. The water is brought to a boil. Observing, watching level boiled solution. If on surface arises a gray coating - fine crystals, the solution is immediately (maximum hot) filtered. Upstairs in the filter, during process filtering, arises crystalls NaCl. In solution bottom filter in flask, arises next crystalls NaCl, (after cooling to 20 Celsius. ) The solution is filtered or decantated at 20 C. We have Pure solution NaClO3 + water, in purity 99%. Done. For best purity is possibe process repeated again. Self / answer sytem....Liptakov........LL

AnWax

Of course, that ETN should be enough detonate any AN -WAX. Usually 3 grams is enough for AN-WAX , if is wax added as solution in gasoline and follow evaporate gasoline. Better is always add 2% Al. Much deminers has opinion, that main charge 1 Kg and more requires a big booster, for example 10g Hi - brisant EM. It is not pretty right. If is main charge medium sensitive, enough No.8. Or small booster 2 - 3g at it. For full strenght..........

Quote: Originally posted by Si Da Sci Guy

Is sulfur a better sensitizer for AN than aluminium ?

Quote: Originally posted by Si Da Sci Guy

I know I'm jumping in here and asking lots of questions but here is another quick one: is 8675.9 kJ/mol ( 8.675 MegaJoules ) high for a standard enthalpy of combustion. The molecule is Myristic Acid and has a molar mass of 228.38 g·mol−1. I mean is that a lot of energy ?

Quote: Originally posted by yobbo II

Would there be an issue with ignition with the mixture when drying. A small amount of acetone mixed with sodium chlorate sounds like stuff that might ignite with a spark?

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

The problem with splitting, separating NaCl from NaClO3 resolved. Both substances were dissolved in the smallest possible amount of water, at temperature 20 C. The water is brought to a boil. Observing, watching level boiled solution. If on surface arises a gray coating - fine crystals, the solution is immediately (maximum hot) filtered. Upstairs in the filter, during process filtering, arises crystalls NaCl. In solution bottom filter in flask, arises next crystalls NaCl, (after cooling to 20 Celsius. ) The solution is filtered or decantated at 20 C. We have Pure solution NaClO3 + water, in purity 99%. Done. For best purity is possibe process repeated again. Self / answer sytem....Liptakov........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Si Da Sci Guy

Thank you for your response PHILOU Zrealone. So throw them all in, maybe 2.5%S 2.5%Al 95% NH4NO3. What do you make of adding an AN decomposition catalyst in like ammonium chloride, will that help during the detonation?

Quote: Originally posted by Si Da Sci Guy

I know I'm jumping in here and asking lots of questions but here is another quick one: is 8675.9 kJ/mol ( 8.675 MegaJoules ) high for a standard enthalpy of combustion. The molecule is Myristic Acid and has a molar mass of 228.38 g·mol−1. I mean is that a lot of energy ?

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

I wonder if AN/paraformaldehyde might have a better oxygen balance than ANFO. Possibly AN/polyoxymethylene? [Edited on 26-4-2017 by clearly_not_atara]

The OB depends onto the % of fuel vs oxydizer so the question has no sense per se.

But if the % of paraformaldehyde/polyoxymethylene and mineral oïl are the same in both compositions; then yes the (-CH2-O-)n variant will be higher in OB than the (-CH2-CH2-)n one...

But the detonic parameters have to be analyzed to determine which of the two will be more potent...fuel oïl contains more energy but is lighter...POM is denser but contains less energy...stil a decent amount....
Into a detonation process POM may depolymerise into CH2=O and react instantaneously with NH4NO3 to make "virtually" hexamine dinitrate equivalent (7000 m/s VOD) or Methylamine nitrate equivalent (6500 m/s VOD) thus better than ANFO (3500 m/s at best)...

[Edited on 28-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony

quite a few in the energetic forum, just got to read though it all!

That was so helpful! ok, now back to the real world, not the world of sarcasm!

That was literally the worse answer pyro guy

Beware

PbO2 anode

Has anyone recommendation on seller for Lead dioxide anode PbO2 - beta ? Some experiences ? Thanks.......................LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Has anyone recommendation on seller for Lead dioxide anode PbO2 - beta ? Some experiences ? Thanks.......................LL

Hi L(o)L ,

The joinded document explain how to make alfa- and beta-PbO2 anodes and their properties.

It seems that the alfa is better but not wel studied.

Enjoy and continue the good job and experimentation.

PHZ

Attachment: Unsoluble anode lead dioxide coated on titanium for electrosynthesis of sodium perchlorate.pdf (267kB)
This file has been downloaded 462 times

PbO2 alpha type

Great , thanks. But in tutorial is absence concentration KOH. What is (4M) ? Others prepare conditions seems pretty easy. And maybe preparation Lead acetate can be problem, of course is necessary study how make him. 40g per liter solubility in KOH electrolyte. Clear ratio. But basic concentration KOH is describe not.
Next question is, why everybody not use from year 1990 only alpha type PbO2 anode. Everywhere is prefer beta PbO2.
Maybe is only same , as with prefer the primer Lead azide. Commerce conditions are cheapest for acid bath or some so. ......LL



[Edited on 8-5-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

But in tutorial is absence concentration KOH. What is (4M) ? But basic concentration KOH is describe not.

It is under the 4M secret code information.....

But only initiated chemist know that...
It is common chemical writting ... 4M is "4 molar concentration" what means 4 moles per liter solution.

************************************
You of course know what a mole is?

In biology it is an underground digger mamal that destroys green grass gardens by making tiny soil bumps everywhere as aeration holes.

But in chemistry it is a number defining a group/a number/amount of atoms or molecules that provide a workable quantity linked to the Avogadro's number (6,022 140 857 × 10²³ units)...

So when mixing the two biological and chemical notion you have
6,022 140 857 × 10²³ moles is a mole of moles ... (Chemical joke).

Si if you have 2 shoes you have a pair of shoes, if you have 12 shoes you have a dozen of shoes or 6 pairs of shoes...and if you have 6,022 140 857 × 10²³ shoes, you have a mole of shoes...convenient isn't it?
It is a hurge number but when applying it to molecules and atoms what are very tiny and weights nearly Nothing if furnish you the quantities to work at our scale and to allow us to react together réactants to get products whith the help of the periodic table of the elements and the atomic masses...this is stoechiometry what links equations containing number of molecules that interacts; their molecular/atomic weight and multiplied by the Avogadro's number to get it as a mass of réactants...

As an example:
So 2g H2 gas contains (approx) 1 mole of H2 molecules but two moles of H atoms.
So 32g S contains (approx) 1 mole of S atoms.
By warming the two
H2(g) + S(s) --> H2S(g)
You get 34g H2S or (approx) 1 mole ...
Smokey....Stinky

[Edited on 8-5-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Only one thing, what I am understood, that I had 6 pairs of stinky shoes. And on the garden 4 the moles. Thanks for explanation.
Well...concentration 1 M is less than 4 M. However, still is not clear, how much KOH is need insert, in order that arise solution 4M KOH....Shoes are clear. Everybody the Mole are also in their holes. Schrödinger´s cat in the box. But KOH stay top secret.
........ LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Only one thing, what I am understood, that I had 6 pairs of stinky shoes. And on the garden 4 the moles. Thanks for explanation. Well...concentration 1 M is less than 4 M. However, still is not clear, how much KOH is need insert, in order that arise solution 4M KOH....Shoes are clear. Everybody the Mole are also in their holes. Schrödinger´s cat in the box. But KOH stay top secret. ........ LL

You got everything right ;-)

Molar Mass KOH = 56,1056 gr/mol (1 mole of KOH weights 56,1056 grams)

So 1M is 1 mole/L or 56,1056 gr into 1 L volume solution.
So 4 M is 4 mole/L or 4*56,1056 gr = 224.4224 gr into 1 L volume solution.

Oh not...So easy...? Well...Thus, is necessary use 700g pure water and insert 224,5g KOH and after pour water on volume 1dm3. Not on 1 kg, because it not it same. OK, last problem is solved, done. Thanks for superchemical counting..............LL

Quote: Originally posted by greenlight

You can add small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum.

Quote: Originally posted by greenlight

As for the recyrstallisation, I usually dissolve in alcohol and pour slowly into heavily stirred ice-water to get sand like granules. You can add small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum.

Quote: Originally posted by feedme94

Quote: Originally posted by greenlight   As for the recyrstallisation, I usually dissolve in alcohol and pour slowly into heavily stirred ice-water to get sand like granules. You can add small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum. I can only aquire 2 types of ethanol. The first one is 93% ethanol denatured with turpentine and methanol also is colored with methylene blue. The other one is 95% and its denatured with water and glycerin. Can i use any of these to recrystalize ETN ? I cant find anything about purifying these and distillation wont work at least this is what they told me.

testing the chlorate ph

Quote: Originally posted by underground

I have read that the ph of chlorate cell cant be measured directly cause hypochlorite will bleach the paper, this can be solved by boiling the solution. Can i just use h202 to destroy the hypochlorite then test it with a ph paper ? or will h202 affect the ph ?

Quote: Originally posted by underground

Thank you PHILOU for your valuable help, i really appreciate that. I will take them into consideration [Edited on 20-6-2017 by underground]

Hello guys,

I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems.

I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid.
More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN.

Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature.
Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest.
And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish

Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ?
Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ?

Thank you !


[Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel]

Quote: Originally posted by Uriel

Hello guys, I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems. I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid. More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN. Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature. Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest. And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ? Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ? Thank you ! [Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel]

Quote: Originally posted by Uriel

Hello guys, I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems. I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid. More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN. Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature. Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest. And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ? Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ? Thank you ! [Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel]

Joint grease for the grignard reaction?

Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish

Hi all. I was wondering if it was alright to use Vaseline grease for ground glass joints in a grignard reaction, i know Vaseline is quite hydrophobic but i wasn't sure if perhaps some of the other components of Vaseline could react with or degrade a grignard reagent. Refluxing ether will likely pull a small amount of grease into the boiling flask and im not too bothered about Vaseline contaminants provided they don't lower yields. Thanks

Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish

Ok thanks PHILOU Zrealone, the Vaseline that i have states no other components except petroleum jelly, it doesn't have a smell or taste so im pretty confident of its purity, I will try and purchase some proper vacuum grease at some point but for this particular reaction ill try using Vaseline. I was just wondering if other people used Vaseline for the grignards.

Are you trying to make a touch explosive of sorts out of it?

I don't think relative safety and stability can be used in the same sentence as silver fulminate.

It is extremely sensitive and maintains the same sensitivity even if it is wet.

Ammonia will dissolve silver fulminate but when you apply it to a surface, I think it would eventually detonate just from the stress of crystallization from the solvent evaporating.
I have heard of the weight of crystals on top of crystals causing initiation and add in the fact that bonds forming during crystallization is an exothermic process. It would be a slower crystallization than the initial precipitation during manufacture which means larger crystals and more internal stress.

If you did manage to apply it to a surface in dissolved solution, I think it would detonate prematurely.


[Edited on 18-8-2017 by greenlight]

I am NOT planning to try this but...

So Ive seen lots of good information on metal complex salts that are primary explosives, and I was wondering if there are any similar complex salts that are more like booster or secondary explosives.
Like, I only need a list of compound names, and I can UTFSE from there

And sorry to kinda put two questions into one, but this is also related to metal ion complexes: has anyone tried making complex salts with iodate or bromate as the anion? Both would probably be unstable but I'm just curious.

Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination

So Ive seen lots of good information on metal complex salts that are primary explosives, and I was wondering if there are any similar complex salts that are more like booster or secondary explosives. Like, I only need a list of compound names, and I can UTFSE from there And sorry to kinda put two questions into one, but this is also related to metal ion complexes: has anyone tried making complex salts with iodate or bromate as the anion? Both would probably be unstable but I'm just curious.

Just a quick question.
I made a small batch of PVA-coated lead azide for primary charge in dets. After I had pressed all I needed I left a small sample out to make sure it was storage stable. It is now four months later.
The only thing is that whatever part of the pile is in contact with the air becomes darker brown in colour from the original white of the batch and dearlens more on prolonged storage. I habe noticed this with other batches as well as I only make a small amount at a time.
I have attached a photo below after I transferred it onto a new piece of paper.
Maximum temp it has been exposed to is about 25 C.

Anyone know what causes this or if it affects sensitity or performance?

[Edited on 2-9-2017 by greenlight]

What is this compound's name, if it has one? I've tried searching under several different names I thought it might be, but couldnt find any instance of it. Is it known to exist, and if so, is it usefully stable?

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Lead azide left exposed to air and especially to light will get a thin layer of litharge on the surface. Litharge is brown.

Quote: Originally posted by greenlight

Just a quick question. I made a small batch of PVA-coated lead azide for primary charge in dets. After I had pressed all I needed I left a small sample out to make sure it was storage stable. It is now four months later. The only thing is that whatever part of the pile is in contact with the air becomes darker brown in colour from the original white of the batch and dearlens more on prolonged storage. I habe noticed this with other batches as well as I only make a small amount at a time. I have attached a photo below after I transferred it onto a new piece of paper. Maximum temp it has been exposed to is about 25 C. Anyone know what causes this or if it affects sensitity or performance? [Edited on 2-9-2017 by greenlight]

Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination

What is this compound's name, if it has one? I've tried searching under several different names I thought it might be, but couldnt find any instance of it. Is it known to exist, and if so, is it usefully stable?

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

As mentionned Ninhydric1... 2-nitrotriazane or alternatively ==> N,N-diamino-nitramide (nitramide is H2N-NO2) If it ever exists it will only be as a transient species...even the lower members of the family are not that stable: -nitro-hydrazine (H2N-NH-NO2) is not stable (adding an extra NH2 will not help at all) -nitramide (nitro-ammonia H2N-NO2) has limited stability and very fast decompose autocatalytically to H2O, N2 and O2... apparently it is not stabilised by NH4(+) or N2H5(+) salt formation. This is to be expected with free nitroazanes... ==> so not "uselfully stable" Same applies to dinitramide (HN(NO2)2) what display only moderate stability...on its own ... but here it can be greatly improved by NH3 or N2H4 salt formation...and this comes from the stabilizing effect of the second nitro group...and resonances structures of the dinitramide anion... [Edited on 4-9-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone   As mentionned Ninhydric1... 2-nitrotriazane or alternatively ==> N,N-diamino-nitramide (nitramide is H2N-NO2) If it ever exists it will only be as a transient species...even the lower members of the family are not that stable: -nitro-hydrazine (H2N-NH-NO2) is not stable (adding an extra NH2 will not help at all) -nitramide (nitro-ammonia H2N-NO2) has limited stability and very fast decompose autocatalytically to H2O, N2 and O2... apparently it is not stabilised by NH4(+) or N2H5(+) salt formation. This is to be expected with free nitroazanes... ==> so not "uselfully stable" Same applies to dinitramide (HN(NO2)2) what display only moderate stability...on its own ... but here it can be greatly improved by NH3 or N2H4 salt formation...and this comes from the stabilizing effect of the second nitro group...and resonances structures of the dinitramide anion... Thanks for good information, and yea I didnt expect it would be very stable, at least not on its own. But for similar compounds, if anyone's curious, I do have a few papers saying that some salts and metal complexes of them are somewhat stable:

Nice articles, thanks.

I really like the triazane perchlorate one...

Too bad into most characterization they don't give interesting datas for detonics properties... except density...
==> Heat of formation, Enthalpy of decomposition, Calculated VOD, Temperature of decomposition, Impact sensitivity, ...

Quote: Originally posted by greenlight

Just a quick question. I made a small batch of PVA-coated lead azide for primary charge in dets. After I had pressed all I needed I left a small sample out to make sure it was storage stable. It is now four months later. The only thing is that whatever part of the pile is in contact with the air becomes darker brown in colour from the original white of the batch and dearlens more on prolonged storage. I habe noticed this with other batches as well as I only make a small amount at a time. I have attached a photo below after I transferred it onto a new piece of paper. Maximum temp it has been exposed to is about 25 C. Anyone know what causes this or if it affects sensitity or performance? [Edited on 2-9-2017 by greenlight]

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

There is considerable information available for high explosives based on mixtures of Potassium chlorate and nitrobenzene or of ammonium nitrate and nitromethane. Do any know of data on mixtures of Potassium chlorate and nitromethane? VOD, impact and friction sensitivity? (high, one assumes...) STABILITY? Was there ever any industrial use made of this mixture? A quick Google search shows some amateur experimental uses, and at least one video.

EM Short Question

Quote: Originally posted by Corrosive Joeseph

I once spent a night reading about obtaining sodium azide from airbags and came to the conclusion it was just too dangerous. /CJ

Quote: Originally posted by UkAmateur

I hope these questions aren't regarded as overly kewlish and whilst they have probably been answered previously I have utse and read numerous posts with out a definitive answer being apparent. But given this is the short question/quick answer thread I thought I may as well ask. 1, How much A.P. (acetone peroxide) is required to successfully initiate detonation of E.T.N (ethryitol tetranitrate)? The ETN will be sensitized by addition of 15%(b.w) of aluminum powder. Containment will be a thin walled aluminum tube approx 6mm diameter. 2, How much ETN is required to successfully initiate detonation of nitrocellulose? (Trinitrate, properly washed, neutralised, stabilized, dried and pressed to optimal density) containment varied. I apologise in advance if these questions aren't suited to this thread and am happy for a moderator to delete or move to the appropriate thread or subsection if deemed necessary. Many thanks in advance. E2a I realise AP is less than an ideal primary and I loath to synth it again (been several years since I last did on account of a Darwin award worthy mistake on by behalf which very nearly lost me two fingers) but unless my UTC source of sodium azide comes through soon my options are limited to AP/HMTD. Its worth saying that both questions are at this point hypothetical. As I am still unconvinced that AP is worth the risk. Its amazing how convincing our little accidents can be eh.. Anyways just wanted to clarify as I'm not some 14yr old kid and have the appropriate respect for the compounds in question. Again, many thanks [Edited on 13-9-2017 by UkAmateur] [Edited on 13-9-2017 by UkAmateur]

Quote: Originally posted by UkAmateur

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm gonna shelve the AP idea for now. Even in minute amounts its just to dangerous (to handle/manipulate, the synthesis itself is easy and measures can be taken to reduce risks but when it comes to handling the dry product.. Well I don't need to elaborate) I'll concentrate on acquiring the required reagents for other primaries first. And maybe look into docs method of detonating ETN caps too at the same time.. I've got plenty of chlorates available (and my cell can easily produce perchlorate too) so the perchlorate primaries are perhaps another option as well. I was hoping to acquire sodium azide via the car airbag route as I have a friend in the car breaking business but reading a couple of the above posts it may not be as simple as I first hoped.. As is often the case, less speed = more haste. This isn't the kind of hobby where rushing things brings you any medals. In fact, often the opposite. I'll keep reading. Again, many thanks.

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

For sluggish, low efficiency / low impulse / slow DDT / slow self accelleration initiators there is a very real constraint of critical diameter that works against a practical design at below about 3/8" inch diameter for the initiator column. TCAP is only very marginally usable as an initiator even at that 3/8" diameter in an amount of several grams topped off with a first fire "kicker" of AP / bullseye putty as a low press loading "hand pressed" firing train. HMTD performs a little better, and DDNP still better. At a 1/4" inch column diameter, from my tests, which were not done on ETN or other sensitive base charge, none of the sluggish initiators will perform like they should. Reported by others NHN and other sluggish initiators are going to also require the larger diameter charge columns to be useful loadings. As for the perchlorates, triaminoguanidine perchlorate over guanidine perchlorate could be an interesting combination of initiator and base charge.

Nice data/infos Rosco

The NiHN (Nickel nitrate hydrazino complex) is indeed too much on the edge between a primary/Secondary... that's why I developped the synergetical mix with SADS/SANC (1/1 to 2/1)... so:
1°) initiability of of the mix is strongly improved vs NiHN alone
==> reducing the needed amount and critical diameter of detonation allowing for a lower diameter detonator and shorter one (development distance of the D2D much shorter)
2°) overal power of the mix is improved vs SADS alone since NiHN is more brisant and display a higher VOD.

Hence the synergy

I need a primary explosive that won't kill me easily, is chemically stable, can be synthesized at a home lab and is not TOO expensive to make.
HMTD is cool, but it is not chemically stable.
I need an explosive to make a blasting cap for my Dunnite.

Lead azide is not an option for me. It is very time demanding and expensive to make.

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355

I need a primary explosive that won't kill me easily, is chemically stable, can be synthesized at a home lab and is not TOO expensive to make. HMTD is cool, but it is not chemically stable. I need an explosive to make a blasting cap for my Dunnite. Lead azide is not an option for me. It is very time demanding and expensive to make.

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

I tried to sensitize nitromethane with a 5% epoxy curing agent based on polyamine. The PLX-like explosive is green, I put 6 grams inside a syringe I tried to detonate it with SADS/MHN (500 mg) without success. Should I add a booster or switch to another amine? EDA is hard to get.

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355   I need a primary explosive that won't kill me easily, is chemically stable, can be synthesized at a home lab and is not TOO expensive to make. HMTD is cool, but it is not chemically stable. I need an explosive to make a blasting cap for my Dunnite. Lead azide is not an option for me. It is very time demanding and expensive to make. SADS, without any doubt.

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   I tried to sensitize nitromethane with a 5% epoxy curing agent based on polyamine. The PLX-like explosive is green, I put 6 grams inside a syringe I tried to detonate it with SADS/MHN (500 mg) without success. Should I add a booster or switch to another amine? EDA is hard to get. What polyamine? Maybe the amine group into your product is not basic enough to force the nitromethane to its nitronate form... ==> The nitronate form is responsible of the sensitivity.

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355   I need a primary explosive that won't kill me easily, is chemically stable, can be synthesized at a home lab and is not TOO expensive to make. HMTD is cool, but it is not chemically stable. I need an explosive to make a blasting cap for my Dunnite. Lead azide is not an option for me. It is very time demanding and expensive to make. SADS, without any doubt. Hi! Thanks for answering. By SADS you mean silver acetylide? Doesn't seems hard to make. I can buy silver nitrate locally and recrystallize it, and then generate some acetylene gas. How stable is it? Will it decompose or change its chemical structure in contact with metals, light, time? I'd like to know more about it. How much SADS would be required to detonate, lets say, 300g of dunnite?

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

My SADS is stable enough stored under ethanol in a dark place. I think dunnite is quiet insensitive, maybe you need a booster to detonate it, like picric acid.

Nice.
Since you mentioned solubility, how soluble is SADS in ethanol, acetone and other solvents? The wikipedia article states that it is insoluble in water.
If it is insoluble in ethanol, it is indeed a good choice of chemical, since it would dry the SADS much faster than water.

How much SADS can I store safely together, in the same container?

Thanks!

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone   Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   I tried to sensitize nitromethane with a 5% epoxy curing agent based on polyamine. The PLX-like explosive is green, I put 6 grams inside a syringe I tried to detonate it with SADS/MHN (500 mg) without success. Should I add a booster or switch to another amine? EDA is hard to get. What polyamine? Maybe the amine group into your product is not basic enough to force the nitromethane to its nitronate form... ==> The nitronate form is responsible of the sensitivity. Sorry, it wasn't a polyamine, it was a polyetheramine, so maybe is not basic enough. Next amine to try is hexamine.

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   My SADS is stable enough stored under ethanol in a dark place. I think dunnite is quiet insensitive, maybe you need a booster to detonate it, like picric acid. Nice. Since you mentioned solubility, how soluble is SADS in ethanol, acetone and other solvents? The wikipedia article states that it is insoluble in water. If it is insoluble in ethanol, it is indeed a good choice of chemical, since it would dry the SADS much faster than water. How much SADS can I store safely together, in the same container? Thanks!

SADS is pretty much insoluble in any solvent except very basic or acidic ones...

SADS is silver acetylide double salt or SANC silver acetylide nitrato complex... it is related to silver acetylide but it is not the same.

SA = Ag2C2
SANC/SADS = Ag2C2.xAgNO3 or Ag2C2.xAgNO3.yHNO3

The fact SANC/SADS contains nitrate into its complex structure allows form more energetic output and power... since the oxygen will help burning part of the acetylen carbonaceous fuel... but not all as proven by the fact that the addition of KClO3 increases the power up to 40% by weight vs plain SADS/SANC ==> so not enough oxydizer present for perfect OB (oxygen balance)

There are plenty of info about it all over the energetic section ==> Use the search engine
==> The safe amount to handle depends onto the operator, his ability to make the product pure following good procedures and onto the container.

I have had more than 15 grams stored at the same place under a granulated form with finer powder parts for long time.

Avoid light exposure for too long especially strong halogen ones and UV (like from the sun)... avoid too much friction, shock and heat... 150°C can set it off.

[Edited on 3-10-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355   Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   My SADS is stable enough stored under ethanol in a dark place. I think dunnite is quiet insensitive, maybe you need a booster to detonate it, like picric acid. Nice. Since you mentioned solubility, how soluble is SADS in ethanol, acetone and other solvents? The wikipedia article states that it is insoluble in water. If it is insoluble in ethanol, it is indeed a good choice of chemical, since it would dry the SADS much faster than water. How much SADS can I store safely together, in the same container? Thanks! SADS is pretty much insoluble in any solvent except very basic or acidic ones... SADS is silver acetylide double salt or SANC silver acetylide nitrato complex... it is related to silver acetylide but it is not the same. SA = Ag2C2 SANC/SADS = Ag2C2.xAgNO3 or Ag2C2.xAgNO3.yHNO3 The fact SANC/SADS contains nitrate into its complex structure allows form more energetic output and power... since the oxygen will help burning part of the acetylen carbonaceous fuel... but not all as proven by the fact that the addition of KClO3 increases the power up to 40% by weight vs plain SADS/SANC ==> so not enough oxydizer present for perfect OB (oxygen balance) There are plenty of info about it all over the energetic section ==> Use the search engine ==> The safe amount to handle depends onto the operator, his ability to make the product pure following good procedures and onto the container. I have had more than 15 grams stored at the same place under a granulated form with finer powder parts for long time. Avoid light exposure for too long especially strong halogen ones and UV (like from the sun)... avoid too much friction, shock and heat... 150°C can set it off. [Edited on 3-10-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone   Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355   Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter   My SADS is stable enough stored under ethanol in a dark place. I think dunnite is quiet insensitive, maybe you need a booster to detonate it, like picric acid. Nice. Since you mentioned solubility, how soluble is SADS in ethanol, acetone and other solvents? The wikipedia article states that it is insoluble in water. If it is insoluble in ethanol, it is indeed a good choice of chemical, since it would dry the SADS much faster than water. How much SADS can I store safely together, in the same container? Thanks! SADS is pretty much insoluble in any solvent except very basic or acidic ones... SADS is silver acetylide double salt or SANC silver acetylide nitrato complex... it is related to silver acetylide but it is not the same. SA = Ag2C2 SANC/SADS = Ag2C2.xAgNO3 or Ag2C2.xAgNO3.yHNO3 The fact SANC/SADS contains nitrate into its complex structure allows form more energetic output and power... since the oxygen will help burning part of the acetylen carbonaceous fuel... but not all as proven by the fact that the addition of KClO3 increases the power up to 40% by weight vs plain SADS/SANC ==> so not enough oxydizer present for perfect OB (oxygen balance) There are plenty of info about it all over the energetic section ==> Use the search engine ==> The safe amount to handle depends onto the operator, his ability to make the product pure following good procedures and onto the container. I have had more than 15 grams stored at the same place under a granulated form with finer powder parts for long time. Avoid light exposure for too long especially strong halogen ones and UV (like from the sun)... avoid too much friction, shock and heat... 150°C can set it off. [Edited on 3-10-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone] Thanks for the info. Do I synthesize SADS from SA or I have to approach it differently?

Armstrong's mixture, powerful primary ?