subsecret - 2-1-2014 at 14:50
While looking around at the labels of bleach, pool shock, and pool chlorine tablets (TCCA), I found this clause on all of them:
"It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."
This law is in place to prevent pesticide abuse, as many chlorine-containing oxidizers are environmentally dangerous.
Does anyone have suggestions for using bleach/TCCA in experiments? Is there a way it can be used legally?
Any help is appreciated.
elementcollector1 - 2-1-2014 at 14:59
I really don't think that law is the type that they enforce.
papaya - 2-1-2014 at 15:06
You say that you won't experiment with TCCA only because it's not intended for experiments?
subsecret - 2-1-2014 at 15:16
Well, I'd experiment with it, but it gives law enforcement a reason to take action. They may not enforce it, but if I happen to get a knock on the
door, it gives them a foothold on an otherwise 100% legal chemist.
elementcollector1 - 2-1-2014 at 15:20
Law enforcement are not the Thought Police - they cannot sense you misusing the bleach/TCCA, and would have a hell of a time proving it even if the
bleach were in your lab.
subsecret - 2-1-2014 at 15:27
A hard time proving it? I don't have a pool, and there aren't any other uses in my household for TCCA. I think it would be rather easy to see that it
had been used.
papaya - 2-1-2014 at 15:27
It's a big question IF home chemistry is legal at all.. Isn't it that laboratories must have a license to operate ? (I may be wrong, also may depend
on country). Anyway, as always it's all a matter of wordplay - a kitchen where you cook food can be called a "lab" because everything is "chemical"
in nature and viceversa - instead of the term "misuse" you can always say that you only wanted to transform it into some form to dispose it safely.
This is why I hate these legal issues...
subsecret - 2-1-2014 at 15:30
One could also say that the law is intended to protect the environment, and I'm not contaminating the environment, so the law has done its job... They
need to rephrase some of these clauses.
papaya - 2-1-2014 at 15:38
So if you dump it into your pool it hurts the environment less than if you put it down the drain? Must be it's the producer that is heavily obliged to
put that labeling, not you to follow everything literally.
But in reality, they will knock on your door only if they suspect you of doing a really bad stuff like making "drugs" - in that case you better
explain everything honestly not to make things worse.
mayko - 2-1-2014 at 16:32
Don't these labels occur on plenty of things besides pesticides? I've always been struck by them, since they seem to be declaring functional fixedness
to be law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness
Random - 2-1-2014 at 19:09
Have you ever installed pirated software? And read license agreement? Probably just clicked "i agree".
That's what I did.
mkurek - 5-1-2014 at 09:45
I don't think the police actively monitor every purchase or chlorine tablets. You'll be fine.
roXefeller - 13-1-2014 at 20:32
I find that notice on everything fun. I agree that its a foothold. They permit the sale of these things under the auspices that it is going to be
used as packaged. If you wanted to use it differently you would legally be expected to go through the legal channels, like Sigma Aldrich. I guess
legal laboratories won't be getting their H2SO4 from Rooto... maybe the government is also not getting a cut of the sale, similar to off-highway
diesel (illegal to use the dyed stuff in road travel because it's avoidance of fuel taxes).
IrC - 13-1-2014 at 22:30
Per mayko's link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness
"When tested, 5-year-old children show no signs of functional fixedness"
OK now I am wondering how accurate wiki really is. I do not now nor have I ever had any evidence of functional fixedness. In fact being a mad
scientist and hardware hacker is diametrically opposed to functional fixedness. All my life I almost never use anything for the purpose intended, nor
have I ever once obeyed those warning labels which state "no user serviceable components inside".
From this I conclude I must still be 5 years old so I ask you why the hell do I ache like I'm 60? Something is very wrong with that wiki page, it
cannot possibly be me.
gregxy - 14-1-2014 at 10:37
I don't know....
They just searched Justin Bieber's house because he threw eggs at his neighbor. Probably Felony eggdangerment.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/showbiz/ent-justin-bieber-vand...
Amazing that a judge would issue a search warrant for something like that!
If you buy pool chems and don't have a pool you must be up to no good.
Metacelsus - 14-1-2014 at 18:25
@IrC
About "functional fixedness":
I have used a cheap wrench as a structural part in a ball mill prototype I worked on. I was trying to fit a hexagonal shaft (for a drill) to a block
of wood, and didn't have any hexagonal bushings. The jury-rigged adapter worked fine, the drill motor didn't.
You are precisely right: mad scientists are highly creative.
Pyrovus - 15-1-2014 at 00:40
Well, it is labeled as being TCCA, so as long as you use it in a manner consistent with it being TCCA, and not say, toluene, then you're following the
-letter- of the label.
woelen - 15-1-2014 at 02:24
Normally, it is no problem at all if you use any chemical product for experiments instead of for its intended use. Experimenting at home is not a
problem, not in the USA, nor in the EU and I am quite confident in nearly 100% of all other countries.
Of course, you must act responsibly. If you use your TCCA to make bombs and blow up things or produce huge clouds of chlorine gas, such that people in
the neighbourhood get disturbed by it (or worse), then you may expect trouble. If you, however, do a small-scale synthesis or do some test tube
experiments for your own fun or education, then no one will make a problem of that.