Sciencemadness Discussion Board

OTC H2SO4 and NaOH are gone...

gregxy - 10-2-2014 at 11:59

I went to the local Home Depot this weekend to look for NaOH in the form of Red Devil lye. I could not find any. Also gone were all the H2SO4 based drain openers (they used to have several brands). I also looked at Orchard Hardware but did not see the NaOH or H2SO4 there either. I don't know what happened to them, but if you see them it may be a good time to stock up. (I'm in the USA).

UnintentionalChaos - 10-2-2014 at 12:12

I haven't had any problems lately, though I live in northeastern US. All the H2SO4 drain cleaners available locally are horrid black crap anyway. Dudadiesel ends up costing about the same amount if you order enough and the stuff comes in fairly clean. I did titrate his supposed >90% KOH at 88% though, but it hasn't been an issue.

Zyklon-A - 10-2-2014 at 12:24

I'm going to go to Home Depot today, ever since I've looked, they have never had any sulfuric acid but they do have sodium hydroxide last I checked...

gregxy - 10-2-2014 at 13:37

There are still plenty of drain openers containing NaOH,
but few with crystals and none that are just lye (as far as
I can tell from the package).

For opening drains the acid kind was the only one that
ever worked for me. Most clogs are made up of organic
material and hard water deposits (calcium carbonate).
Acid does a much better job on those.

It's also annoying that few products list the ingredients.
I was looking for paint stripper with CH2Cl2, and there
were 5 or 6 brands, but none listed what was in them.
I suppose there is some code on the can that you can look
up to find the MSDS, but its awkward to do in the store.

Zyklon-A - 10-2-2014 at 15:11

I just got back from Home Depot, and they still had NaOH crystals, (I bought some) they are contaminated with a dye of some sort, and some unknown metal shavings, no idea why...

cyanureeves - 10-2-2014 at 16:00

ace hardware came back to our town in a joint business with a local supermarket and along with ace hardware came rooto sulfuric acid and liquid fire sulfuric acid and rooto 100%hydroxide AND ammonium hydroxide.i bought two gallons of acid right away and every two weeks i would buy two bottles of hydroxide.i love ace and i'm thinking of buying liquid fire just for the looks of the bottle.the black sulfuric acid made pretty clean nitric acid when i distilled potassium nitrate and the potassium sulphate or bisulphate left behind was white as snow with no traces of anything black.

elementcollector1 - 10-2-2014 at 16:08

Those metal shavings are aluminum, by the way. No clue on how to get rid of them other than manual sorting...
I buy all my stuff from McLendon's (HCl, H2SO4, NaOH, CuSO4, CaCl2, NH4OH, and there's some H2O2 that's supposed to be concentrated but I've never bought it to check). Handy little store.

Zyklon-A - 10-2-2014 at 16:29

How are aluminum shavings in there, since it's amphoteric. Or is that the point? To keep it from reacting with potential aluminum pipes in drains.

Mr_Magnesium - 10-2-2014 at 17:46

H2SO4 is annoying to get in Aus.

Pool shop sells 15L for 33dollars at 20%~ + 15 drum deposit.

It starts off a pristine white but when you concentrate it, it goes from yellow to this disgusting black stuff like the drain cleaners. Gotta use H2O2 to make it look respectable.

The amount of time it takes to concentrate 15L is ridiculous for a few litres.

I thought about asking a few local members to pool together and get a 20L drum of 98% sulfuric and share that, which is a lot cheaper and much more convenient .

TheChemiKid - 10-2-2014 at 17:53

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
ace hardware came back to our town in a joint business with a local supermarket and along with ace hardware came rooto sulfuric acid and liquid fire sulfuric acid and rooto 100%hydroxide AND ammonium hydroxide.i bought two gallons of acid right away and every two weeks i would buy two bottles of hydroxide.i love ace and i'm thinking of buying liquid fire just for the looks of the bottle.the black sulfuric acid made pretty clean nitric acid when i distilled potassium nitrate and the potassium sulphate or bisulphate left behind was white as snow with no traces of anything black.


I have a local ace. Without it, I would be without some of my best chemicals. The people there know me well, so customer service is amazing. I buy CaCl2, HCl, CuSO4, H2SO4, MeOH, EtOH, iPrOH, (CH3)2CO, CH3COC2H5, C6H5CH3, C6H4(CH3)2, C6H4Cl2, NH4OH, Ca(OCl)2, TCCA, and more from there, no questions asked.
:D

Oscilllator - 11-2-2014 at 02:38

@Mr_Magnesium: Try the plumbing supplies co-op for H2SO4. I buy mine there and it is completely clear and as far as I can tell, 98%. Its pretty expensive though, $30+ for 1L.

turd - 11-2-2014 at 02:46

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
How are aluminum shavings in there, since it's amphoteric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effervescent_tablet

Mesa - 11-2-2014 at 03:50

Quote: Originally posted by Mr_Magnesium  

I thought about asking a few local members to pool together and get a 20L drum of 98% sulfuric and share that, which is a lot cheaper and much more convenient .


I think a lot of Aussie members(myself included) would be up for that.

@gregxy: The drain cleaners that have aluminium chips in them are usually a mix of NaOH and NaNO3 from my experience.

Zyklon-A - 11-2-2014 at 07:11

@Mesa, the drain cleaner that I bought does not have any NaNO3, at least according to the ingredients listed.

ACE is the Place

Praxichys - 11-2-2014 at 07:12

Quote: Originally posted by TheChemiKid  

I have a local ace. Without it, I would be without some of my best chemicals. The people there know me well, so customer service is amazing. I buy CaCl2, HCl, CuSO4, H2SO4, MeOH, EtOH, iPrOH, (CH3)2CO, CH3COC2H5, C6H5CH3, C6H4(CH3)2, C6H4Cl2, NH4OH, Ca(OCl)2, TCCA, and more from there, no questions asked.
:D


I too have a local ACE. Don't forget:

KNO3 (stump remover)
Na2S2O5 (stump remover)
NaHSO4 (Pool pH down)
Na2CO3 (Pool pH up)
CH2Cl2 (Paint stripper)
H3PO4 (Deck cleaner, rust remover)
NaCl (Salt for ice melting)
KCl (Water softener salt)
(NH3)2CO (46-00-00 urea fertilizer)
CaSO4·½H2O (Plaster of paris)
MgSO4·7H2O (Epsom salt)
NaBr (Spa brominator)
H3NSO3 (Sulfamic acid tile haze cleaner)

If you include NaOH and H2SO4, that is 30 common and extremely useful reagents all under one roof. There is also all the stuff with non-chemical usefulness like sand for sand baths and cat litter to help with lab spills, plus buckets and other containers, disposable stirring impliments, safety goggles, face shields, gloves, and other PPE... ACE is a lab supply in disguise.

ACO Hardware is also good. I think they might be local to Michigan but they have about the same stuff.
Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
the black sulfuric acid made pretty clean nitric acid when i distilled potassium nitrate and the potassium sulphate or bisulphate left behind was white as snow with no traces of anything black.


Naturally. Nitric acid is an oxidizing acid, especially at elevated temperatures. It acts much in the same way hydrogen peroxide does, oxidizing carbonized organic impurities in the acid to mostly CO2 and water. I frequently save "dirty" sulfuric acid for this purpose.

[Edited on 11-2-2014 by Praxichys]

Mesa - 11-2-2014 at 08:31

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
@Mesa, the drain cleaner that I bought does not have any NaNO3, at least according to the ingredients listed.


Does it have aluminium chips in it?

Zyklon-A - 11-2-2014 at 08:32

Yes, it has Al chips.

[Edited on 11-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

Here is the link to the exact product that I have.
https://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/en-us/products-by-brand...

I guess it does have sodium nitrate.... On the container it just said "stabilizer".

[Edited on 11-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

Praxichys - 11-2-2014 at 10:20

Another quick note: ZEP "Crystal Heat" drain opener powder (Home Depot) containing sodium hydroxide, sodium nitrate, and aluminum shavings was easily classified using the mesh from a microwave oven door. The nitrate prills are far bigger than the hydroxide, which falls through the mesh. The screen retains most of the aluminum as well, but some manual sorting is needed to complete the job.

Granted, there is still nitrate contaminating the hydroxide, but the NaOH is easily over 90% after the sorting process. I used to use this method until I found "Red Devil" at ACE.

elementcollector1 - 11-2-2014 at 10:27

90% by what? Usually NaOH solid prills are about 88 or so due to water absorption, and go down from there.

Praxichys - 11-2-2014 at 12:02

90% by estimation of NaNO3 prill count to NaOH prill count in the final product. Certainly not even close to 90% pure NaOH by any means, especially considering both starting products were technical grade at best. Apologies for being unclear.

I found this "good enough" for many experiments that can tolerate poor quality NaOH, like making sodium silicate, etching glass, scrubbing CO2, the test tube silicide/silane experiment, etc.

EDIT: It should also be noted that the nitrate/hydroxide mix melts into an extremely corrosive liquid that dissolves pretty much all organic matter, glass, and some metals.

[Edited on 11-2-2014 by Praxichys]

*FWOOSH* - 11-2-2014 at 16:53

I love my local Ace store :D
I could wander through those kinds of hardware stores for hours and just imagine everything I could do with all the cool stuff (chemical and otherwise) in there.

I actually used to live a couple miles from the Rooto headquarters in MI, always thought it was kinda neat that one of the only manufacturers of OTC pure H2SO4(conc) and NaOH was so close by.

zig - 12-2-2014 at 10:00

Got any mom n pop hardware stores you could visit gregxy? I've recently had a similar problem with big hardware chains. First they took my toluene, then they took my NaOH, then the came for my xylene.
Turns out our local little hardware supply practices no such bullshit! :D




alexleyenda - 12-2-2014 at 10:19

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
How are aluminum shavings in there, since it's amphoteric. Or is that the point? To keep it from reacting with potential aluminum pipes in drains.


The attack of NaOH on aluminium is very exothermic (more than it's dissolution in water) and happens only once it is in contact with water, the shavings are probably here to increase the heat --> the speed of reactions --> the efficiency of the NaOH based drain cleaner.

The only way I found to avoid them and all the other craps they put sometime in the drain cleaners is to look for NaOH cristals as "cleaning agent". Look in small hardwares stores, not multinationals like home depot.

For H2SO4, I can get 20L of 35% battery grade for 30$ at my car pieces seller. It is clear and I have never seen any sign of contamination. Boiling it down can give you 4-5 L of conc. H2SO4. It can be very dangerous however, it splatters a lot and gives off fumes. Make sure you can stop the hot plate in case of problem without going near your flask/Beaker.

I'm in Canada, but you can probably find roughly the same things wherever you live.

[Edited on 12-2-2014 by alexleyenda]

Praxichys - 12-2-2014 at 10:30

I stopped getting things at Home Depot because they stopped selling concentrated sulfuric acid, then NaOH, then toluene, then xylene, and recently methyl ethyl ketone. However, they seem to have replaced MEK with ethyl acetate, which could be useful. I also think they are phasing out potassium nitrate stump remover with the metabisulfite variety, and naphthalene moth balls with the p-dichlorobenzene kind.

I think the bigger stores are afraid of their public image. A small chain is much more concerned about money than looking "environmentally responsible" in the public eye. Also, the bigger stores have a lot more to lose if someone is injured by one of their products. I'm sure they have a legal department which does nothing all day but sit around and think of what could go wrong and how to prevent it.

MrHomeScientist - 13-2-2014 at 08:33

Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet, but the main reason for including Al chips in drain opener is that its reaction with NaOH produces hydrogen bubbles which agitate and help break up clogs. Turd alluded to it, but I figured I'd state it outright in case people didn't make the connection.

SM2 - 13-2-2014 at 08:42

Hey, Ace is the place to go for me! Rooto baume 98% H2S04. Several specialty shops sell food grade Na0H and K0H.

I'm waiting for the day they take away everything, for shortly there after, secret and devilishly easy recipes will spring forth from a Pandora's box.

The government wants all the drug trade to them selves. If they wanted to, they could have long ago put opium growers and cocaine cartels out of business. Mixtures of narcotics superior to heroin. Synthetic caines, full of power, but low on the NE and easy on the heart.

Praxichys - 13-2-2014 at 08:55

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet, but the main reason for including Al chips in drain opener is that its reaction with NaOH produces hydrogen bubbles which agitate and help break up clogs. Turd alluded to it, but I figured I'd state it outright in case people didn't make the connection.


I wonder if the nitrate is in there to control the temperature, since it has a really endothermic heat of dissolution?

Otherwise, the stuff with the aluminum chips is like a "drano bomb" in a can... just add water!

plante1999 - 13-2-2014 at 14:02

The nitrate is reduced to ammonia, I don't know why though, maybe to raise the heat?

Magpie - 13-2-2014 at 16:50

Needing some toluene I visited Ace, my usual source for OTC chemicals. They had it but only in a 1 gallon container. I was able to find it at other hardware and paint stores but also only in 1 gallon containers. I finally found the 1 qt size at a recreational equipment store. Apparently it is the solvent of choice for repairing inflatable rafts.

I was happy to note that MEK is still available at Ace and other places. In fact the Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.

zig - 13-2-2014 at 21:45

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  
I stopped getting things at Home Depot because they stopped selling concentrated sulfuric acid, then NaOH, then toluene, then xylene, and recently methyl ethyl ketone. However, they seem to have replaced MEK with ethyl acetate, which could be useful. I also think they are phasing out potassium nitrate stump remover with the metabisulfite variety, and naphthalene moth balls with the p-dichlorobenzene kind.

I think the bigger stores are afraid of their public image. A small chain is much more concerned about money than looking "environmentally responsible" in the public eye. Also, the bigger stores have a lot more to lose if someone is injured by one of their products. I'm sure they have a legal department which does nothing all day but sit around and think of what could go wrong and how to prevent it.


Yeah man, that shit sucks. Does banning xylene and friends (solvents, hydroxides) have a significant impact on the environment? I'd imagine much of the problem is caused by industrial manufacturing or something, rather than individual dumbfucks pouring solvent all over the place.

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Needing some toluene I visited Ace, my usual source for OTC chemicals. They had it but only in a 1 gallon container. I was able to find it at other hardware and paint stores but also only in 1 gallon containers. I finally found the 1 qt size at a recreational equipment store. Apparently it is the solvent of choice for repairing inflatable rafts.

I was happy to note that MEK is still available at Ace and other places. In fact the Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.

It must vary by state. My buddy in California has told me his local Home Depot carries NO workable solvents or hydroxides barring acetone (offered only in 16 oz cans). Thankfully it's not quite that bad here, but I'm not optimistic for the future.

Fantasma4500 - 14-2-2014 at 16:16

reduction to ammonia because the average person would shit themselves knowing that NaOH on contact with aluminium forms nicely explosive hydrogen gas, probably even the NH3 forms NH4OH which .. ofcourse also helps to remove plugs of whatever sort

there should be a SM main base in the US and in the EU.. buying home a tonne of all sorts of chemicals running our own business :D
i mean.. who havent been gazing at the insanely low prices on alibabba for bulk chemicals??

Zyklon-A - 14-2-2014 at 16:20

My Home Depot still sells: Acetone, toluene, ethyl acetate, methyl ethyl ketone, xylene and of course contaminated sodium hydroxide.

testimento - 14-2-2014 at 16:28

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
there should be a SM main base in the US and in the EU.. buying home a tonne of all sorts of chemicals running our own business :D
i mean.. who havent been gazing at the insanely low prices on alibabba for bulk chemicals??


I have actually considered making a business out of chemicals. Now when there is the bitcoin, it makes it a lot simpler but unfortunately my country is very much too remote and authoritarian for such purposes. Even if I managed to smuggle out some concentrated hydroxic acid, the shipping costs would render the business obsolete. On a second thought, I have noted that once you get a registered company, you can order virtually anything without nobody raising a question, even the bad-badies.

Turner - 14-2-2014 at 18:28

Good thing I recently bought 1 gallon of 96% Rooto sulfuric acid at Ace, also Ammonium Nitrate happens to be the only OTC Nitrate salt available to me, so I got plenty of that too

woelen - 1-3-2014 at 04:22

In the Netherlands we have a new development. Many hardware stores want to go ECO. In practice this means that many chemicals which are "bad for the environment" are banned. Solvents like white spirit, ligroin and even acetone are replaced by their eco-variants. So, instead of acetone we can buy eco-acetone, which is a mix of at most 10% butoxyethanol, water and soap-like stuff and is inflammable and does not need to carry the Xi or Xn hazard symbol.

http://www.pearlpaint.nl/nl/merken-producten/eco-line/aceton...

They even call this crap acetone, but it does not contain any acetone at all. I almost bought a bottle of this stuff, but when I read the label on the bottle I decided to leave it.

Not only acetone is replaced, but nearly all solvents, and also sodium hydroxide and somewhat more concentrated hydrochloric acid. For the home chemist, this is a small disaster. So, very soon, in the Netherlands the only source of pure chemicals will be special online shops.

Zyklon-A - 1-3-2014 at 06:54

I have decided to only buy online anyway, It's cheaper, so the only downside is shipping costs. But if you buy only large shipments, you save lots of money, and the chemicals are more pure.

Hockeydemon - 2-3-2014 at 20:22

I just buy my chemicals on amazon for the most part. I have an Ace just a few minutes away, but I end up paying more money for a worse product. I can get a 2lbs of FCC grade NaOH for $15, 1L 32% HCl for $15 on amazon, but I would pay probably $28 for 2lbs of NaOH drain cleaner at Ace. I get way better deals and they have way more things.

Since all of the chemicals you can buy through amazon aren't actually sold by amazon I don't have to worry about setting off any red flags for buying a bunch of reagents. Each third party seller is responsible for tracking their chemical sales - not that I buy any suspicious chemicals or bulk chemicals. It's just a added benefit of using amazon third party sellers. I also use ebay if amazon doesn't have something for whatever reason.

macckone - 2-3-2014 at 22:24

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon  

Since all of the chemicals you can buy through amazon aren't actually sold by amazon I don't have to worry about setting off any red flags for buying a bunch of reagents. Each third party seller is responsible for tracking their chemical sales - not that I buy any suspicious chemicals or bulk chemicals. It's just a added benefit of using amazon third party sellers. I also use ebay if amazon doesn't have something for whatever reason.


Do you think that the NSA really doesn't share all that lovely
data with the FBI/DEA/CIA? Amazon and Ebay are 'watched'
but given the volume of transactions it may take years to
actually get investigated.

Hockeydemon - 2-3-2014 at 23:06

No but I think they have bigger fish to fry than some 23 year old kid buying small quantities of unwatched reagents. I would fear a local raid from police working under a tip or something but I don't think the NSA is giving info to the local police on my buying habits.

HoH - 2-3-2014 at 23:14

8lbs of NaOH for 15.99.. think the industry it is used in and wash your hands of losing your hard earned money. Or you can pay 15.99 for 2Lb at your local hardware store because it is convenient..

chemrox - 5-3-2014 at 18:11

I got 5 gallon cans of acetone and toluene from a paint store. Then they had a fire and went out of business. I can still buy methanol from a fuel seller.

S.C. Wack - 5-3-2014 at 20:13

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.


Er it's quality ethyl acetate....I'd call that
A HUGE FUCKING LOSS
...I'll be found at Lowe's tomorrow after work...

Hockeydemon - 5-3-2014 at 21:55

Even the Ace hardware website says it's discontinued :(. I just bought a liter from Ace the other day - I guess I'll be going back to buy a few gallons. It's way more expensive to buy ethyl acetate on amazon.

Dollar General

cal - 6-3-2014 at 02:49

I just but the non acetone nail polish remover at Dollar General and distill it.

Clarification please.

HoH - 7-3-2014 at 19:56

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.


Er it's quality ethyl acetate....I'd call that
A HUGE FUCKING LOSS
...I'll be found at Lowe's tomorrow after work...


Are you sure ethyl acetate is in the substitute formulation of MEK? I was just at home depot and I saw 1qt bottles of MEK "substitute" (Klean Strip). There was a good 24 bottles on the shelf.

If so, what percentage of it contains EtOAc? I believe it was 10.00 per quart. I googled but could not find the answer regarding the constituents in the formulation.

Clarification please.

HoH - 7-3-2014 at 19:58

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.


Er it's quality ethyl acetate....I'd call that
A HUGE FUCKING LOSS
...I'll be found at Lowe's tomorrow after work...


Are you sure ethyl acetate is in the substitute formulation of MEK? I was just at home depot and I saw 1qt bottles of MEK "substitute" (Klean Strip). There was a good 24 bottles on the shelf.

If so, what percentage of it contains EtOAc? I believe it was 10.00 per quart. I googled but could not find the answer regarding the constituents in the formulation.

Clarification please.

HoH - 7-3-2014 at 20:43

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Klean-Strip website says that the "MEK substitute" is being discontinued. Sometimes we win one.


Er it's quality ethyl acetate....I'd call that
A HUGE FUCKING LOSS
...I'll be found at Lowe's tomorrow after work...


Are you sure ethyl acetate is in the substitute formulation of MEK? I was just at home depot and I saw 1qt bottles of MEK "substitute" (Klean Strip). There was a good 24 bottles on the shelf.

If so, what percentage of it contains EtOAc? I believe it was 10.00 per quart. I googled but could not find the answer regarding the constituents in the formulation.

Crowfjord - 7-3-2014 at 21:05

The MSDS is on Kleen Strip's website. It's >99% ethyl acetate, if I remember right.

macckone - 7-3-2014 at 21:35

Quote: Originally posted by Crowfjord  
The MSDS is on Kleen Strip's website. It's >99% ethyl acetate, if I remember right.

Yes it is. At least for this product code.
http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/1636%20KS%20MEK%20Substit...

TheChemiKid - 8-3-2014 at 06:25

I have used just plain ethyl acetate from the bottle for extractions, and it works fine. For more sensitive reactions, I distill, and I have not had any problems.

HoH - 8-3-2014 at 16:39

Thank you for the replies.

If I may ask, when using EtOAc for organic phase extractions, do you lose some of the ethyl acetate to water? I have noticed that when using DCM in the same manner, you lose a percentage of DCM to H2O after separation of the non-polar phase. Is this the same for Ethyl Acetate or should you be able to recover 100% of the solvent without any loss?

macckone - 9-3-2014 at 06:21

Quote: Originally posted by HoH  

If I may ask, when using EtOAc for organic phase extractions, do you lose some of the ethyl acetate to water?


Solubility in water is 8.3g/100ml at 20C.
So yes, there is a lot of loss.
This also effects your yields.
Ethyl ether is 6.9g/100ml so it isn't
a lot worse then that.
But chloroform is .8g/100ml and
hexane is practically insoluble.

HoH - 9-3-2014 at 14:25

I apologize, I completely forgot that info is on the MSDS. It seems that DCM would be a better alternative but a more costly alternative.

Last night I picked up a quart of MEK substitute from Home Depot and as I am distilling it, I am noticing the thermometer is reading 66c as the mystery solvent is distilling one drop per second. The oil bath is reading 92c.

To my knowledge, 66c is Tetrahydrofuran! Ethyl Acetate was expected to read 77c, hence my setting the temp of the oil bath to the low 90's to compensate 10 degrees. If ethyl acetate was present wouldn't it be distilling over at this temp, registering on the thermometer?

It has been a while since I had ethyl acetate so my sense of smell/chemical detection may be off, but it smells like EtOAc.. but it also kinda smells like THF. :o I usually associate THF with the smell of OTC wart remover, and it kinda smells like that as well.

Did Klean Strip possibly change the formulation, rather than discontinue MEK substitute? So far I see about 50ml in the receiver flask and the vapor temp has not budged and there is no sign of slowing up as 1 drop/sec continues to distill.

Thoughts? Not sure which I like better, THF or EtOAc for 9.98/qt. Both are good deals imo.

splooge - 10-3-2014 at 11:44

This may seem naive but amazon has H2SO4, NaOH, and KNO3 after a really short search. H2SO4 was 30 bucks for a gallon of conc..

S.C. Wack - 14-3-2014 at 12:41

Quote: Originally posted by HoH  
EtOAc for 9.98/qt.


It was $16 a gallon at Lowe's. There are no gallons anywhere in town and there is no way I'm paying $10 a quart at HD. Lowe's has gone exclusively to the Crown brand for solvents now, lameness...

Perhaps the discontinuation was the realization they could neither continue to sell gallons for $16 even if that was profitable, nor sell at $10 a quart.

Perhaps the thermometer weirdness is thermometer weirdness, and purity would be best determined by large scale conversion to ethanol and either sodium acetate or acetamide.

Get your chem gear while it's available. Much like the forklift at work, do not count on it being there at the time you want to use it.

I was walking out of the HD in another town today, saw a sign that said POTASSIUM CRYSTALS

...it was of course KCl for water softeners or something.

[Edited on 14-3-2014 by S.C. Wack]

Texium - 15-3-2014 at 07:03

Lowe's sells Roebic brand drain cleaner which claims to be 100% lye. There's no aluminum chips or anything in it, just two pounds of crystal NaOH.

Fantasma4500 - 15-3-2014 at 08:35

for acetone it could be done in excess

without having checked up on it but recalling something about it i was explained by a person i talk to that acetic acid can be made by letting oxygen get into your reaction chamber with yeast and sugar

perhaps CaCO3 could be dumped into this mixture to INSTANTLY react the acetic acid to get calcium acetate
this could then be dumped into a large metal can with fitted lid and metal tube to be decomposed into acetone at somewhat high temperature, the reaction apparently first starts at something around 500*C if im not totally off, but it surely could be done in a considerable bulk, making the calcium acetate could be a small side project that could basically have itself going without much more than some more sugar, yeast and water added once in a while

Illusionist - 26-4-2014 at 16:06

Found a great source for pure NaOH and KOH, soap making stores have it.

www.saffireblue.ca

CDN $7.81 for 1KG NaOH
$9.60 for 1kg KOH

they also have good price on boston round bottles.

subsecret - 27-4-2014 at 08:16

Try Ace Hardware if you live near one. That's where I found Rooto sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide. Always check hardware stores when you travel. Though sulfuric acid was available at my local store, I couldn't find any sodium hydroxide, but finally found some when traveling in the adjacent state.

Polverone - 27-4-2014 at 16:20

Those Klean-Strip teases are taking away the ethyl acetate now?! I was bummed when they discontinued the ethyl lactate "multi purpose natural solvent." On the upside this means that next year I can probably acquire a cheap stock of some other ethyl ester from their revised product lineup.

Bert - 27-4-2014 at 17:00

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone  
Those Klean-Strip teases are taking away the ethyl acetate now?! I was bummed when they discontinued the ethyl lactate "multi purpose natural solvent." On the upside this means that next year I can probably acquire a cheap stock of some other ethyl ester from their revised product lineup.


They've ALREADY brought back real MEK! Perhaps they've given up on "green" replacements?

I went and bought out the local Home Depot's supply of the ethyl acetate "MEK replacer" just in case- But they only had 8 quarts. They never re-stocked, it would seem that when it's gone, it's GONE.

Pity, it made a decent replacement for amyl acetate, which I had formerly used in combination with acetone as a somewhat longer "open working time" solvent for nitrocellulose bound pyrotechnic compositions. Making NC bound "dragon's eggs" is a pain when the dough dries in an eye blink.

Etaoin Shrdlu - 27-4-2014 at 17:18

There was a shortage of MEK in 2011, then another price hike recently; it's more or less better now. I suspect that drove the change to ethyl acetate in the first place rather than any actual interest in being "green". Off the top of my head they're similar in price.

EDITED for clarity. And punctuation. Possibly repeatedly.

[Edited on 4-28-2014 by Etaoin Shrdlu]

hyfalcon - 28-4-2014 at 03:42

I picked up the last gallon of the Klean Strip MEK substitute. Last one in the Local Lowes. Never to be replaced since the switched to Crown solvents. Looks like the Home Depot still carrys the quarts but that's way over priced. Funny thing is, Klean Strip makes a 5 gallon can, but you can't find it anywhere without something like $180.00 delivery.

gdflp - 28-4-2014 at 06:00

Just went to Home Depot, they have Klean Strip Green Denatured Alcohol which is actually almost pure denatured ethanol, at least 90% according to the MSDS with a few percent of Methanol and MIBK to lower the tax. Much better IMO than their normal denatured alcohol which is like 50-50 EtOH and MeOH.

EDIT : What are you using 5-gallons of EtOAc for?


[Edited on 28-4-2014 by gdflp]