Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ammonium Nitrate compound

leopard - 14-11-2002 at 17:41

I have dabbled in many of the sciences all my life including explosives. I have made many explosive compounds over the years but I have had a particular interest in Ammonium Nitrate compounds. I have had great sucess with ANFO but the reason for my post is this. I came upon a patent for ANGC (Ammonium Nitrate and Glycine). I haven't tried it but it seems that when the 2 chemicals are melted together a new substance is formed that is quite sensitive (det. with 0.2 gm PETN). It does not appear to require confinement and will detonate in fairly small quantities and with small diameter cross section (2.5cm dets at 2900fps and 4500+ at 4.5cm). I am not able to try it at this time but wanted to ask if anyone has heard of it or tried it? The patent mentions that this substance would make a good primary or booster!

rikkitikkitavi - 14-11-2002 at 21:54

do you have a patent number ?

it would make it much easier to evaluate.


Nick F - 15-11-2002 at 05:57

Hey look, that patent gives the composition for an AN based plastic explosive that can be detonated by 0.2g of PETN! Although finding the emulsifier and glycine could be difficult, perhaps there are alternatives...
Also, their mentions of AN/urea and AN/HMTA eutectics have got me thinking. They could work quite nicely as explosives themselves.
I tried to look at the pictures in the patent, to see if they suggested a structural formula for the compound formed (which would make it easier to suggest alternatives to glycine), but something's wrong. I have the software to look at the pictures, but I can't today for some reason :(

leopard - 15-11-2002 at 11:12

xoo1246 is right the patent I refered to is 4,746,380. As for Glycine it is available from many of those health supplement web sites. 200 gram bottle is about $15.00u.s. The patent leaves many unanswered questions (as is typical) but in particular what is missing is information regarding risks of manufacture (if any), sensitivity to impact, friction, heat, flame etc. The patent implies that it is practically impossible not to create ANGC no matter how the AN and Glycine come in contact It seems too easy!!! It would be interesting to test some. The other thing that puzzles me is that no matter how thoroughly I search I can find no other information on this substance. For all it's ease of preparation and it's desirable properties it seems to have dropped off the face of the earth! Maybe someone will get a chance to try it.

Nick F - 15-11-2002 at 12:13

I suspect it isn't used because glycine is a lot more expensive than fuel oil and a booster.
Any ideas on the structure of the compound formed? If it was a 1:1 ratio it would be easy to work out, glycine existing as a zwitterion so NH4(+) will be attracted to the -COO(-) and NO3(-) will be attracted to the -NH3(+), so the compound would be [NO3][H3N-CH2-COO][NH4], but where would the other NH4(+) and NO3(-) go? It can't just be a mixture of the compound above and ammonium nitrate because X-ray diffraction of the product found no AN...

Nick F - 15-11-2002 at 12:16

Ah, ignore that last little comment about X-ray diffraction, it was a silly mistake.

TheBear - 3-1-2003 at 11:37

Slightly off topic:
Found this on the preparation of glycine:
Synthesis of glycine

Just have to find Methyleneaminoacetonitrile :D

Or you can make it yourself but NaCN is needed, perhaps something for Polverone? :D
Synthesis of methyleneaminoacetonnitrile

Rhadon - 3-1-2003 at 12:18

There is already a very good thread on the preparation of cyanides in the Bioactive Materials section. Look here.

TheBear - 6-1-2003 at 11:18

Rhadon: That was what I was indicating.

PHILOU Zrealone - 18-3-2003 at 08:04

It is explained in the patent that it is a cocristallisate!
What means H2N-CH2-CO2H.2NH4NO3 !
It displays different properties than the two compounds appart because it is a very intimate mix (molecular)!The cristal patern is regular and different from pure AN or pure G!

Actually any cocristalisation of a fuel and AN will sensitise it; it being active explosive or simple fuel!
Hexamine, Me-NH3NO3, CH3-CO2NH4, NH4-CO2-CO2-NH4, NH2-CO-NH2, NH2-C(NH)-NH2, CH3-CO-NH2,...

Aminoacids (glycine is the simplest of all) display easy cristallisation
RCH(NH2)(CO2H) in glycine R=H!

Any other aminoacid will provide water soluble fuel; but glycine is the lower on mw and must be one of the solublest!

The sensitivity not only comes from the intimate mix (you can't go better than molecular); but also from the fact aminoacids polymerise from heat (leading to peptides (that contain amide link)and then later decomposed by heat!
2NH2-CH2-CO2H --> NH2-CH2-NH-CO-CH2-CO2H + H2O
NH2-CH2-CO2H -(-> CH3-NH2 + CO2 -)-> C + 5/2H2 + 1/2 N2 + CO2

osamafon - 24-3-2003 at 03:45

I found out that g`s price is 4,15 euro 800ml bottle

theh0ser - 7-12-2003 at 23:17

if u mix ammonium nitrate and water and dip newspaper in it and let it dry and roll it realy tight and tie it and then light it, it makes a smoke bomb but thats really gay...sorry

inkognito - 7-12-2003 at 23:34

hm.... i don't know why such high price . in my place it costs 2 euro for half liter .... well , im interested in this compund so ill do some experiments , anyone tried something out ?