Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Beginning chemistry.

nannah - 24-5-2014 at 22:30

Hi guys. I have been looking forward to this moment for a while now. I have been saving up, reading different lab books, like Lange´s handbook, and now i just got my basic chemistry glassware set i bought on ebay.

So now i want to try on a synthesis, and thought i would want to use something that you get from the hardware store, like steel wool, and muriatic acid. Run the reaction, recrystillize, and in the end you end up with a chemical that of reagent grade, or almost as good as.

I have read all the lab manuals, and i am quite sure it could be done if you have concentrated HCl.

I have to go, the kids are up. :)

/nannah

plante1999 - 24-5-2014 at 23:27

You could make iron II sulphate from steel and sulphuric acid. This would need to be re-crystallized to remove carbon particles though.

Oscilllator - 25-5-2014 at 02:05

Don't use straight 30% HCl though - the vigorous exothermic reaction will cause much of the HCl to boil away. Either dilute it or add it slowly so as not to waste acid. I find it is easier to remove the carbon particles by filtering than recrystallisation.

aga - 25-5-2014 at 03:18

Congratulations nannah !

I'm very new to chemistry myself (a few months). It's great.

Here's some experiments i did with Copper Sulphate (sold as tree stump remover) which all worked well :-
In each case, start with a solution of Copper Sulphate

1. Add Table Salt.
The Green crystals are TetraCloroCuprate.

2. Add Bicarbonate of Soda
The Pale blue stuff you get is Copper Carbonate

3. Add Ammonia
The beautiful deep purple colour is TetraammineCopper(II)suphate complex.

4. Add Aluminium and a pinch of salt
If you're lucky, you get aluminium sulfate.
If not you get a dark grey mess

If you can get Muriatic acid, add some to wire wool to get Ferrous Chloride (Green) then either bubble air through it for days, or add some Hydrogen Peroxide to get Ferric Chloride (Yellow/Brown).

Enjoy !

smaerd - 25-5-2014 at 06:50

Well, reagent grade chemicals will require some form of purification. A lot of the suggestions made offer a simple solution to purification (recrystallization). Another simple synthesis could be sulfuric acid to steal wool (stinky do that one outside and it is pretty slow). keep in mind steel wool also contains carbon and often grease. So filtration of the 'digested' solution through a cotton ball can aid in the removal of the dark stuff. The steel wool can also be de-greased with a solvent such as acetone, but that is probably extraneous for a lot of basic experiments.

[Edited on 25-5-2014 by smaerd]

nannah - 26-5-2014 at 18:22

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator  
Don't use straight 30% HCl though - the vigorous exothermic reaction will cause much of the HCl to boil away. Either dilute it or add it slowly so as not to waste acid. I find it is easier to remove the carbon particles by filtering than recrystallisation.


I saw somewhere you can purify muriatic acid into what he called, reagent grade HCI. He had one plastic box, with a lid. In the box he had two smaller tubs, one with distilled water, one with 30% HCl. 24 h later, he had reagent grade HCl.

Ever heard of it, of tried it? Sounds good.
Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
You could make iron II sulphate from steel and sulphuric acid. This would need to be re-crystallized to remove carbon particles though.



That´s the kind of stuff i want to do. It feels like i have read every lab manual a dozen times each. I just don´t have access to a lab, so i haven´t developed any lab skills. But i am thinking aboutdoing this experiment, and i was thinking i was going to distill some water in order to get the practice.
Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
Well, reagent grade chemicals will require some form of purification. A lot of the suggestions made offer a simple solution to purification (recrystallization). Another simple synthesis could be sulfuric acid to steal wool (stinky do that one outside and it is pretty slow). keep in mind steel wool also contains carbon and often grease. So filtration of the 'digested' solution through a cotton ball can aid in the removal of the dark stuff. The steel wool can also be de-greased with a solvent such as acetone, but that is probably extraneous for a lot of basic experiments.

[Edited on 25-5-2014 by smaerd]


Thanks everbody for taking your time. :) Have a great day.

The Volatile Chemist - 26-5-2014 at 18:40

This is my favorite part of chemistry, just enjoying tthe reactions and the idea of produciing something, something usefull, even if only to you. I'm looking forward to this summer, I'm hoping I'll have more acess to reagents, as parents can be limiting at times... but I love 'em!
Anyways, enjoy your reactions! What glassware did you get?

nannah - 27-5-2014 at 16:20

I got a chemistry distilling kit from Laboy. I have heard both good and bad things about them, but i think its good enough for me for now.

So i hope to soon get some free time to try out the kit.

What distillations, besides water can i try? I haven´t even done simple distillation, so i guess it´s there i start.

I want to try to purify, OTC chems, and solvents.

I have a water aspirator that i plan to use when i do vacuum distillations, but i´m not sure if its got enough pull. I am saving up to get a two stage pump at some time.

Thanks again. :)

NexusDNA - 27-5-2014 at 16:57

Water aspirators work like a charm! :D Just make sure the connections are well sealed.

I wouldn't recommend distilling volatile/flammable solvents if you don't have some experience already. Distilling water is a good practice.

Making crystals of copper(II) salts is nice and harmless! If you let them time enough you can get some pretty nice ones.

If you're into organic chemistry and something more rewarding than precipitating salts (and feel confident to use small amounts of conc. H2SO4), you could try methyl salicylate! It gives the wonderful mint odor of some products. You can modify the procedure to make it from aspirin.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/member_publications/methyl_sal...

smaerd - 27-5-2014 at 17:30

Start maybe with the classic ethanol distillation. Not too much hazard there. Definitely read up on the techniques and hazards of distillation, but there's not too much too it. Be careful with ether's and things that form peroxides.

Water aspirator might be sufficient for some distillations but, keep in mind how much water will be wasted. Nothing wrong with Laboy, had a distillation set up and a few pieces of joint-ware from them for 4 or so years now, no issues. Even after some abuse. I prefer to buy American or second-hand glass, especially while Dr. Bob is around giving out amazing deals.

aga - 27-5-2014 at 23:57

Alcohol vapours and an open flame can, of course, explode !

For a very first distillation, why not measure a quantity of salt, dissolve it in a known volume of water, distill that solution, then weigh how much salt is left over, and whether the distillate is salty.

Also measure and record the Vapour Temperature as you do the distillation.

Boiling Water is not really safe either, but at least it won't explode.

gdflp - 28-5-2014 at 04:47

Quote:

I saw somewhere you can purify muriatic acid into what he called, reagent grade HCI. He had one plastic box, with a lid. In the box he had two smaller tubs, one with distilled water, one with 30% HCl. 24 h later, he had reagent grade HCl.

Ever heard of it, of tried it? Sounds good.




This relies on the fact that hydrogen chloride is volatile and most contaminants(iron mostly) are not volatile, due to this some of the hydrogen chloride leaves the initial mixture, becomes a gas, and dissolves in the distilled water. Some gas then leaves that water and travels back to the muriatic acid and this occurs until the system is in equilibrium. The clean acid is probably definable as reagent grade(If no chemicals from the plastics were leached), but has a concentration of slightly less than 15%.

arkoma - 28-5-2014 at 05:15

Do you have an old PC power supply? I have beautiful crystals of CuSO4 that I made following the electrochemical method here by NurdRage. My equipment consisted of a power supply, scraps of wire and a skinny flower vase. My "reagent" was old acid poured out of a car battery.

I got my local library to get me a copy of "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments", this book. I recommend it highly.

nannah - 28-5-2014 at 09:39

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Alcohol vapours and an open flame can, of course, explode !

For a very first distillation, why not measure a quantity of salt, dissolve it in a known volume of water, distill that solution, then weigh how much salt is left over, and whether the distillate is salty.

Also measure and record the Vapour Temperature as you do the distillation.

Boiling Water is not really safe either, but at least it won't explode.


Yeah, maybe i try that. It can be good practice. :)
Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
Start maybe with the classic ethanol distillation. Not too much hazard there. Definitely read up on the techniques and hazards of distillation, but there's not too much too it. Be careful with ether's and things that form peroxides.

Water aspirator might be sufficient for some distillations but, keep in mind how much water will be wasted. Nothing wrong with Laboy, had a distillation set up and a few pieces of joint-ware from them for 4 or so years now, no issues. Even after some abuse. I prefer to buy American or second-hand glass, especially while Dr. Bob is around giving out amazing deals.


Yeah i have seen those circulating aspirators and they seem could be pretty easy constucting. I don´t know, but i as soon as i have enough cash i will get a pump instead.

Quote: Originally posted by NexusDNA  


Making crystals of copper(II) salts is nice and harmless! If you let them time enough you can get some pretty nice ones.



Yeah, thats what im talking about. I can´t wait. :)

Ps. I have been on the look for glacial Acetic, but it´s pretty hard to find, and when you do, it´s super expencive.
I found some 99,85%. Can It be used too?

Zyklon-A - 28-5-2014 at 10:36

I made some copper chloride the other day, it's pretty fun, great colors.
Quote:

I found some 99,85%. Can It be used too?
Yes, go for it. Here is some for a good price.
Quote:

[...] then weigh how much salt is left over, and whether the distillate is salty.

It won't be obviously, no need to even check:cool:.

Rogeryermaw - 30-5-2014 at 07:25
Quote:

[...] then weigh how much salt is left over, and whether the distillate is salty.

It won't be obviously, no need to even check:cool:. [/rquote]

You'd be surprised what dissolved solids can be carried over during a distillation. NaCl? Perhaps not so easily but since nannah is only starting to learn lab technique, perhaps he/she would best serve his/her own interest by going through the steps, even if we see it as unnecessary.

aga - 30-5-2014 at 09:14

Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  

You'd be surprised what dissolved solids can be carried over during a distillation.


Please try to post useful suggestions for a noob.

Either me or nannah - take your pick, we're both noobs.

Your comment contains nothing do-able.

Please give suggestions of What to do, seeing as you are obviously So knowledgeable, and try to make it fit what skills/reagents/aparatus a noob may have.

Personally i do not care at all if ou are the best chemist in history.
So far all you have displayed is aloof arrogance, and have imparted 0 in terms of knowledge.

I doubt You were born all-knowing, and would know Less now if your teachers had taken the same attitude.

[Edited on 30-5-2014 by aga]

smaerd - 30-5-2014 at 10:34

I'm with Arkoma too. Building your own equipment is super rewarding, fun, and generally cheaper then buying them.

Making an electrolysis power-supply from a computer supply was a really fun project and helped me to understand some things in chemistry I wouldn't have other-wise. Electrons are also cheap reagents, and lots of little effects can be observed! Be careful with computer power supplies of course. They pack a pretty high current, so you know, implement safety features and research before experimenting.

Extractions are also fun entry level experiments(caffeine from coffee/tea, etc). TLC is great too and teaches some of the basics of separation science. Could start with grass/chlorophyll and then if you make good TLC plates(or buy them) then you could even analyze your caffeine extract :).

My advice for starting chemistry is maybe not have a specific field to investigate in the beggining. Start with some basic fun observable things. By observable I mean color changes, crystal shapes, scent changes(aroma chemistry is so often over-looked). See what you think is interesting. Expand from there as you develop your interests/skills.

nannah - 30-5-2014 at 11:10

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
I made some copper chloride the other day, it's pretty fun, great colors.

Quote:

I found some 99,85%. Can It be used too?
Yes, go for it. Here is some for a good price.
Quote:

[...] then weigh how much salt is left over, and whether the distillate is salty.

It won't be obviously, no need to even check:cool:.


Thanks, i will check out the link. :) Great price, but i have to see what the shipping charges will be.

arkoma - 30-5-2014 at 11:43

I also made myself a HUGE (4.5 x 2 foot) Periodic Table on the backside of a piece of wallpaper. It's hanging proudly in the living room. As I get element samples I tape/glue them in their boxes. My friends 7 year old daughter helps with this*. I also have made "flash cards" of various anions and cations with their charges and M(olecular)W(eights) wrote on them.

Having a balance is VERY important; I made my own with wood scraps and razor blades. Sensitive to one drop of water.

Same so with a notebook-you can't repeat anything unless you write down everything you do, even if it doesn't seem important at the time. Plus, I suffer bad from "CRS" (can't remember shit)



*she's buying my plane ticket to Stockholm when she wins the Nobel!

(edit)Also for pH indicators, grab ya some flowers, hot water extract them, and soak coffee filters and dry. Also red cabbage. believe it or not roses and petunias work well :D

[Edited on 5-30-2014 by arkoma]

Rogeryermaw - 30-5-2014 at 11:47

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  

You'd be surprised what dissolved solids can be carried over during a distillation.


Please try to post useful suggestions for a noob.

Either me or nannah - take your pick, we're both noobs.

Your comment contains nothing do-able.

Please give suggestions of What to do, seeing as you are obviously So knowledgeable, and try to make it fit what skills/reagents/aparatus a noob may have.

Personally i do not care at all if ou are the best chemist in history.
So far all you have displayed is aloof arrogance, and have imparted 0 in terms of knowledge.

I doubt You were born all-knowing, and would know Less now if your teachers had taken the same attitude.

[Edited on 30-5-2014 by aga]


First, I was speaking to zykon and only pointing out that when one is so new to lab techniques, that they should not skip steps some may see as superfluous if for no other reason than to embed proper technique to combat complacency.

Second, I'm not arrogant to any one. I try to help people who ask. I observe several others argue and call names. You seem to fit right in with those folks.

Third, I have made contributions around this board a good bit. Apparently you haven't read the P4 thread. Or thread about amines in organic. There have been others. Pick your battles and try to get over yourself.

Lastly, not that you are the one to dictate who should post what where, a simple process nannah might like to try at home would be procure a bottle of household ammonia, a liter bottle and some distilled water. Two flasks, stoppers and some hose. Use gentle heat to drive NH3 from the dilute solution, through hose, into the distilled water to obtain concentrated ammonia of good purity.

The Volatile Chemist - 30-5-2014 at 12:47

Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
I'm with Arkoma too. Building your own equipment is super rewarding, fun, and generally cheaper then buying them.

Making an electrolysis power-supply from a computer supply was a really fun project and helped me to understand some things in chemistry I wouldn't have other-wise. Electrons are also cheap reagents, and lots of little effects can be observed! Be careful with computer power supplies of course. They pack a pretty high current, so you know, implement safety features and research before experimenting.

Extractions are also fun entry level experiments(caffeine from coffee/tea, etc). TLC is great too and teaches some of the basics of separation science. Could start with grass/chlorophyll and then if you make good TLC plates(or buy them) then you could even analyze your caffeine extract :).

My advice for starting chemistry is maybe not have a specific field to investigate in the beggining. Start with some basic fun observable things. By observable I mean color changes, crystal shapes, scent changes(aroma chemistry is so often over-looked). See what you think is interesting. Expand from there as you develop your interests/skills.

I've made a very useful magnetic stirrer from some household stuff, saves a good $50 for having to buy one.

aga - 30-5-2014 at 14:21

Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  

First, I was speaking to zykon and only pointing out that when one is so new to lab techniques, that they should not skip steps some may see as superfluous if for no other reason than to embed proper technique to combat complacency.


The direction of your comment was not obvious, and i clearly made the wrong assumption.
I assumed that you were replying to my post, as you quoted it.
Skipping Experience is definitely dangerous.
Appologies if my mistaken assumption caused annoyance.
Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  

Second, I'm not arrogant to any one. I try to help people who ask. I observe several others argue and call names. You seem to fit right in with those folks.


In the limited Context, your post appeared arrogant, in that this thread is from a noob, requesting Information about What to do, rather than What is Not Worth Bothering with.

I assume you are a very experienced Chemist, and where people like me are starting is so far Behind you, the things we Need to learn seem irrelevant and obvious to you, as it is already second nature.

To people like us, it is not, and is more than likely worth learning.
Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  
Third, I have made contributions around this board a good bit. Apparently you haven't read the P4 thread. Or thread about amines in organic. There have been others. Pick your battles and try to get over yourself.


The P4 thread is so far advanced from where i am at in the learning process that i fail to understand the words, never mind the chemistry.
Quote: Originally posted by Rogeryermaw  
Lastly, not that you are the one to dictate who should post what where, a simple process nannah might like to try at home would be procure a bottle of household ammonia, a liter bottle and some distilled water. Two flasks, stoppers and some hose. Use gentle heat to drive NH3 from the dilute solution, through hose, into the distilled water to obtain concentrated ammonia of good purity.


A Chemist speaks !

Thank you for suggesting that process.
I will certainly give it a go.

Appologies again for any offence caused.

[Edited on 30-5-2014 by aga]

Rogeryermaw - 30-5-2014 at 20:01

we're all here to learn together. i'm not that experienced in lab processes as my accident making PCl3 showed...i read quite a bit more than i experiment as it is so expensive.

here are a couple that are fun and easy. sorry if they have been mentioned already. i noticed someone mention copper sulfate. easy to get as root killer at any hardware store. also fun to make electrolytically with H2SO4 and copper metal. recrystallize your copper sulfate and make a saturated solution in water. add some of that ammonia you concentrated to get the amino complex. then you can evaporate that and the crystals are quite pretty.

another fun and quite useful thing to do is go around hardware stores and small, non-chain type pharmacies and see what chemicals you can find. some of them have saltpeter and cold packs with ammonium nitrate. those are fun and easy to practice re-crystallization with. and if you can find ammonium nitrate, add strong base in a stoppered flask with a hose lead into water as another way to make concentrated ammonia solution.

you can get impure manganese dioxide from lantern batteries and add 3% hydrogen peroxide to make O2 gas. concentrate the H2O2 by fractional crystallization (fancy for partially freezing the peroxide). the peroxide freezes at a slightly lower temp than water so if you filter out the slush, the liquid will be more concentrated and react more vigorously with the MnO2.

also useful from the batteries are the carbon rods which can be used in electrolysis projects.

[Edited on 31-5-2014 by Rogeryermaw]

The Volatile Chemist - 1-6-2014 at 11:11

Nice Ideas Rogeryermaw! All simple, well explained (Especially Fractional Dist.!). This is what we need here, not argument.

Convert some of your metal salts to their carbonates (w/ Baking soda, I'm sure you know) so you can get corresponding salts from the acids you have. Do some practice with double displacement, try Epsom salt (MgSO4) for starters.

arkoma - 1-6-2014 at 13:09

"fractional crystalization" AKA "freeze distilation" works well for concentrating Ethanol as well ;)

numos - 1-6-2014 at 13:27

Another rewarding reaction that can be made with OTC chemicals is Chlorobutanol. It can be made by adding chloroform (many tutorials out there) to acetone in the presence of an alkali hydroxide.

45ml acetone, and a gram of Na/KOH are added to a flask in an ice/salt bath. Slowly add 5ml of chloroform, keeping the temp under 5oC stir intimately for 10min and then put it in the fridge for two hours, stiring every 20min or so. Then after that boil the mixture (Not with open flame! This is the first time I witnessed the burning beaker phenomenon) to get rid of excess acetone, it will thicken, I found this to occur at around 1/4 of the original volume.

Finally pour the slurry into ice cold water, white chlorobutanol will crystallize out. Filter, dry, recrystallize in water, and dry again.

You will be left with a wonderfully smelling waxy substance.

Reference:
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/chlorobutan...

aga - 1-6-2014 at 13:59

Nice !
Now there's something(s) i gotta do. Thanks !

NexusDNA - 1-6-2014 at 15:21

Is it somewhat less potent than chloral hydrate? The structures are very similar.

There's a fun story that a bartender, Mickey Finn, used chloral hydrate to knock out some of his customers and rob them. They'd wake up the next day without knowing what happened. Probably not something too healthy to play with! hahaha

numos - 1-6-2014 at 21:38

Quote: Originally posted by NexusDNA  
Is it somewhat less potent than chloral hydrate? The structures are very similar.


I do believe it is slightly less potent, but unlike Chloral hydrate, Chlorobutanol is legal to own without a prescription in the US.

The Volatile Chemist - 2-6-2014 at 06:06

Quote: Originally posted by numos  

Reference:
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/chlorobutan...

Interesting, but the site you linked to... Is that a drug making site? I'd prefer if people didn't ref. them, I don't want to be tagged as a cook going to such a site. (Go to https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ to see what I mean about 'cookery') I could be wrong, and it's just a o.chem site, but it has an air of question-ability...

arkoma - 2-6-2014 at 06:14

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by numos  

Reference:
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/chlorobutan...

Interesting, but the site you linked to... Is that a drug making site? I'd prefer if people didn't ref. them, I don't want to be tagged as a cook going to such a site. (Go to https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ to see what I mean about 'cookery') I could be wrong, and it's just a o.chem site, but it has an air of question-ability...


It is what you think it is. Its a "snapshot" of Rhodium's (google "the hive") now offline site. HOWEVER there is a lot of outstanding chemistry there. You're in the wrong hobby if you are afraid of being "tagged"; chances are you already are. O Chem IS drug chemistry and if you don't think the "three letter agencies" (DEA, NSA, FBI,etc) don't keep an eye on this site you're probably living in a fantasy land.

Grr...

The Volatile Chemist - 2-6-2014 at 06:26

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by numos  

Reference:
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/chlorobutan...

Interesting, but the site you linked to... Is that a drug making site? I'd prefer if people didn't ref. them, I don't want to be tagged as a cook going to such a site. (Go to https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ to see what I mean about 'cookery') I could be wrong, and it's just a o.chem site, but it has an air of question-ability...


It is what you think it is. Its a "snapshot" of Rhodium's (google "the hive") now offline site. HOWEVER there is a lot of outstanding chemistry there. You're in the wrong hobby if you are afraid of being "tagged"; chances are you already are. O Chem IS drug chemistry and if you don't think the "three letter agencies" (DEA, NSA, FBI,etc) don't keep an eye on this site you're probably living in a fantasy land.

Thanks for the info. on it. Is it safe to google "the hive" ? :) What is it/does it mean? I noticed the outstanding chemistry in the linked article, looks well done, to bad it's knowledge is for cookery. (Did Rhodium ever participate here?) I'm not afraid of being tagged for buying chemicals online, and talking here, I don't mind that. The 3-letters know almost all people here don't make drugs. But I DON'T want to be tagged going to a drug site. That's all. I'd prefer a NSFW tag or analogous for such sites being linked to, so I can at least know to decide if it's worth it. I'm happy it was at least secure https... :P

aga - 2-6-2014 at 09:57

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
if you don't think the "three letter agencies" (DEA, NSA, FBI,etc) don't keep an eye on this site


We are not !
None of us are even signed up as members, and we never ever look at it, and would never take down any names, aliases, chems interested in, procedures apparently done, or anything like that. Honest.

NexusDNA - 2-6-2014 at 10:23

It may be very didactic, it may be very fun and rewarding, it may be complex and beautiful. Still, synthesizing drugs is illegal [in most of the world]. It would be better to keep the discussion on the theory level. I don't know about chlorobutanol, but erowid is a clandestine chemistry site.

Not trying to blame anyone, don't get me wrong! :D

numos - 2-6-2014 at 10:45

As I mentioned, chlorobutanol is not regulated or illegal, as far as I know. Frankly I don't care where I get my information from, if a "clandestine chem site" has a good write up of a legal chemical I'm going to use it. Wikipedia has syth info for some illegal drugs too, does that make it a clandestine chem site?

[Edited on 6-2-2014 by numos]

The Volatile Chemist - 2-6-2014 at 12:48

Quote: Originally posted by DEA, NSA, FBI,etc  
Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
if you don't think the "three letter agencies" (DEA, NSA, FBI,etc) don't keep an eye on this site


We are not !
None of us are even signed up as members, and we never ever look at it, and would never take down any names, aliases, chems interested in, procedures apparently done, or anything like that. Honest.

You appear to know too much about chemistry to be one of them. Honestly, my activity on this site is the best proof that I am no cook.

aga - 2-6-2014 at 13:40

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
You appear to know too much about chemistry to be one of them


Read that again slowly and you will see that it is insane.

Firstly i'm just a fast learner. I really did start chemistry around 2 months back.
Secondly 'they' can easily employ one of 'us'.
That means that some of 'us' are 'them'.
There is no practical distinction.

Knowledge is Power, and knowledge of Chemistry can be very powerful indeed.
Govts know that, and so assume that you are being watched.
We all are anyway, in one way or another.

Don't be afraid unless you plan on doing something Nasty or Illegal.

EDIT: or damage the Money someone gets. That tends to be bad too.

[Edited on 2-6-2014 by aga]

The Volatile Chemist - 2-6-2014 at 13:44

Quote: Originally posted by NSA  

Don't be afraid unless you plan on doing something Nasty or Illegal.

You're right, of course.

Watched one way or another...

Overstock Sale!

tomholm - 4-6-2014 at 20:00

Just want to let you all know that Elemental Scientific is putting some of its overstock items on sale in its Overstock Category. This is a great opportunity to stock up on supplies for your lab.

We will continue to add items, glassware, clamps, pipettes, and chemicals, so keep checking to see what's new! Sale will continue while supplies last.

The Volatile Chemist - 5-6-2014 at 14:15

Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Just want to let you all know that Elemental Scientific is putting some of its overstock items on sale in its Overstock Category. This is a great opportunity to stock up on supplies for your lab.

We will continue to add items, glassware, clamps, pipettes, and chemicals, so keep checking to see what's new! Sale will continue while supplies last.

I wasn't able to find your site via Google, unless you changed how it looks.... What's the URL?

gdflp - 5-6-2014 at 16:53

http://www.elementalscientific.net

The Volatile Chemist - 5-6-2014 at 18:59

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
http://www.elementalscientific.net

Thanks. I just didn't recognise thee front page.

Pyro - 6-6-2014 at 13:52

I recommend acetone or metanol for a first time as they have a nice low boiling point and don't require even a fraction of the heat to evaporate than is needed to evaporate water.

when you distill acetone in large batches (3l+) be sure to not boil to dryness or you will be stuck with a coating on your flask that smells of cat piss and is hard to get off

nannah - 10-6-2014 at 14:12


I am interested in improving my distillation skills, so i would appreciate tips. Fractional, steam and vacuum. Since i last visited this thread i have made some mash that should be ready now.

So, i wonder, do you think that it´s a good idea to set up for simple distillation with a 250 ml flask maximum.

I have one prob though. I don´t have a fume hood, or any sort of ventilation. No backyard, or even balcony.
So, i thought that maybe if i point a fan (just one of those ordinary ones everyone keeps at home), full blast and open up my windows wide open.
You guys think it can be sufficient?

Roger: Can i get a closer description of the NH3 purification procedure, if you have it? Some reference i mean. :) It sounds pretty interesting, like the HCl one.
Easy methods that don´t require super advanced glassware. Recently i happened to actually find an old 25% NH3 that i have thought of could be good practice to try to purify in some way. The best and easiest way i found required at a minimum of two gas washing bottles, and that i don´t have.

Also, CuSO4. Is that the slug repellant that you use in the garden? If so, it could be interesting and useful to try to make some.

Numas: It sounds like a simple process that could fit me. What are the use of Chlorobutanol besides the obvious use? :)

Volitile: Are https:// a kind of "secure http://"? I always click the Http:// when entering.


Thanks guys for trying to help me out.

nannah - 16-7-2014 at 14:00

I´m sorry to pick up on this old thread, but i just wanted to ask if someone could recommend me a good book that suits me, and my level of skill.

I have just read "The Organic Chem Lab Survival Handbook" by James W. Zubrick, cover to cover for about the fifth time, and i think i have it all covered.

A while back i bought a book online thats called "The Disconnection Approach" by Warren & Wyatt. I think i had more then i could chew, and had a hard time understand it. So if maybe i should read something more basic so i can understand this book when the time is ready to go fourth.

Also, i should say that most of the time i can have a hard time keeping the focus on the book and learning it, when it gets too much, if you know what i mean. So i will probably need more of a "fun" informative book instead of one that pumps out info, with no learning stimulation quality.

I also am kind of "half reading" a book that i found very interesting called "Handbook of heterogeneous catalytic hydrogenation for organic synthesis" by a guy called Nishimura. I just read it for fun, but it is very interesting stuff.

I hope you can help me out guys. :) Thanks in advance.

[Edited on 16-7-2014 by nannah]

Ascaridole - 16-7-2014 at 15:21

Hi nannah, first let me ask what is your educational background. Have you had general chemistry classes yet? If not some good experiments can be scrounged from the Vernier site. They make probes and equipment for use in school labs but also write lab manuals and provide "samples" of the labs on their site. While not complete they should give you some ideas of experiments and link them to concepts you could read up in a general chemistry text book. If its a text book your looking for Chemistry by Raymond Chang is my preference, the best in my opinion.

However judging by your current reading material I'd hazard a guess you want organic chemistry experiments? If so "A Microscale Approach to Organic Laboratory Techniques" by D. Pavia covers most of the cornerstone experiments in a college level organic chemistry lab. While most of the experiments will be out of reach as the reagents are hard to get some are doable. A text book that would go well with this lab manual is Organic Chemistry by John McMurry. Solomons is another popular text but it didn't impress me.

Another good source is UC235 on youtube, good techniques, easy experiments, good explanations of reaction mechanisms and overall very enjoyable.

If you are into analytical chemistry Quantitative chemical analysis by Harris is a good text. It's not heavy into experiments but for theory it will suffice. For experimental procedures in analytical chemistry you will probably have to go to a college library and search for some older books. Most analytical experiments are not practical at home without a 1mg or better balance.

Hope this list helps!

nannah - 17-7-2014 at 00:50

Quote: Originally posted by Ascaridole  
Hi nannah, first let me ask what is your educational background. Have you had general chemistry classes yet? If not some good experiments can be scrounged from the Vernier site. They make probes and equipment for use in school labs but also write lab manuals and provide "samples" of the labs on their site. While not complete they should give you some ideas of experiments and link them to concepts you could read up in a general chemistry text book. If its a text book your looking for Chemistry by Raymond Chang is my preference, the best in my opinion.

However judging by your current reading material I'd hazard a guess you want organic chemistry experiments? If so "A Microscale Approach to Organic Laboratory Techniques" by D. Pavia covers most of the cornerstone experiments in a college level organic chemistry lab. While most of the experiments will be out of reach as the reagents are hard to get some are doable. A text book that would go well with this lab manual is Organic Chemistry by John McMurry. Solomons is another popular text but it didn't impress me.

Another good source is UC235 on youtube, good techniques, easy experiments, good explanations of reaction mechanisms and overall very enjoyable.

If you are into analytical chemistry Quantitative chemical analysis by Harris is a good text. It's not heavy into experiments but for theory it will suffice. For experimental procedures in analytical chemistry you will probably have to go to a college library and search for some older books. Most analytical experiments are not practical at home without a 1mg or better balance.

Hope this list helps!


Thanks for taking your time helping me out a little. I don't have any chemistry backround, at all. And i think im too old (late 20's) signing up for a class. Its more of a hobby for me, just for fun. Even though i never actually done any experiments yet.

I am already a big fan of Nurd Rage and all of the other youtube channels that cover chem experiment and such.

But anyway, thanks again and i will makw sure that ill check them out. :)

Ascaridole - 17-7-2014 at 01:18

Hahaha 20's nahh..... I know of a 82 year old guy who went back to college to take o-chem just to see if it really was that hard.... never to late.... besides there is a lot of benefits to taking a class, if you have time for it take the labs so you can learn GLP (Good laboratory practice) and proper techniques on keeping notes and recording data, etc.

Still no experiments? Just find something you think is interesting and get to work. Rome wasn't built in a day but it wouldn't have been built unless someone made the decision to lay the first stone... or brick or whatever they laid first... you get my point.

nannah - 17-7-2014 at 05:19

I actually thought that i would start with distilling some H2O, and then after i feel safe with it i thought that maybe purifying some paint thinner.

I just need a fume hood first before i feel safe heating solvents. I can't do it outside the house either becouse of my neighbours.

Anyway, thanks 4 your responce. <3

nannah - 18-7-2014 at 08:46

Ps. I am planning on making a simple fume hood and i have seen that there are hood systems you can buy that have charcoal scrubbers. My question is, if i were to install a charcoal filter scrubber in some way, will it make a difference with reducing the toxicity aswell the smell of the fumes?

I really don't want to pollute the air, and anger the neighbours more then necessary. :)

The Volatile Chemist - 23-7-2014 at 05:54

Quote: Originally posted by nannah  
Ps. I am planning on making a simple fume hood and i have seen that there are hood systems you can buy that have charcoal scrubbers. My question is, if i were to install a charcoal filter scrubber in some way, will it make a difference with reducing the toxicity as well the smell of the fumes?

I really don't want to pollute the air, and anger the neighbors more then necessary. :)

Charcoal scrubbers work by absorbing gasses (Correct me if I'm wrong) in bubbles in the carbon particulate. So it probably would prevent the release of most gasses it could absorb. (Meaning as long as it can hold more, it should protect from poisonous gasses) Regardless, don't test it w/ HCN :)