Sciencemadness Discussion Board

The best way to physically destroy an hard disk

aldofad - 12-7-2014 at 05:39

aldofad - 12-7-2014 at 05:47

Yes you read correctly. Acides, explosive or thermites. I' m seeking the best way. The best is that wich leaves no traces.
I' ll try to realize to best way.

Cheers,
aldo

blogfast25 - 12-7-2014 at 06:22

This is a silly question that has little to do with chemistry or science.

High temperature incineration is probably the easiest and most reliable method.

This belongs in 'Miscellaneous'.

kmno4 - 12-7-2014 at 06:29

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
This is a silly question that has little to do with chemistry or science.
High temperature incineration is probably the easiest and most reliable method.
This belongs in 'Miscellaneous'.

No sillier than many other posts on SM.

The best way to physically destroy HD is disintegrate it with anti-HD.
However, any information cannot be destroyed :P


Pyrovus - 12-7-2014 at 06:58

Install Windows 8.

blogfast25 - 12-7-2014 at 07:07

@kmno4:

It would certainly make a nice bonfire ;)

You mean the information would somehow remain embedded in the energy? Or are you kidding me?

The Volatile Chemist - 12-7-2014 at 07:09

You don't need to destroy the HD, just ask the NSA to ignore you (With some cash persuasions).
I prefer just melting the platters.

Metacelsus - 12-7-2014 at 07:28

You could just overwrite it many times with random bits (to eliminate magnetic remanence).

Burner - 12-7-2014 at 07:59

I would think that a large vat of strong base would dissolve everything of importance (except the wires, ferrite heads, and some steel components, such as screws).

leu - 12-7-2014 at 09:16

There's an instructable:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Securely-erasing-a-hard-disk...

about melting the platter and thus exceeding the curie point:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454159

which ensures data destruction :cool:

Töilet Plünger - 12-7-2014 at 09:47

Open the thing up and power up the hard drive. Then allow the read/write head to grind into the platters, destroying them. (Or you could just leave it open and keep it as a wall decoration, I have two for this purpose).

Thermiting it is another viable option. But whatever you do, if you want to render the drive unusable, make sure to unscrew the cover to ensure that the mechanisms inside will be forever contaminated with dust.

phlogiston - 12-7-2014 at 10:44

The -best- way would be to toss it into a black hole.

But there are many pretty good ways.

There are even machines commercially available to do this

Fenir - 12-7-2014 at 11:48

Hot aqua regia or molten potassium hydroxide would easily destroy the drive.

aldofad - 12-7-2014 at 11:48

Thanks everybody for answering, and sorry for this off-topic in this section.
Looks like there is no immediate and concealed way to physically destroy an hard disk drive.
A good solution is probably to open the disk and find inside some space for a couple of grams of explosive with an e-match ready to be activatedy from outside.
Very likely I'll opt for such a test... :)

Cheers!

hyfalcon - 12-7-2014 at 14:49

12 gauge slug is effective.

Steam - 12-7-2014 at 15:09

Any problem can be solved with the right application of explosives...

TheChemiKid - 12-7-2014 at 17:38

Quote: Originally posted by Pyrovus  
Install Windows 8.

Oh Snap!

HgDinis25 - 12-7-2014 at 22:35

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
@kmno4:

It would certainly make a nice bonfire ;)

You mean the information would somehow remain embedded in the energy? Or are you kidding me?


Information remains embedded in the energy? You've been watching too many sci fiction movies :P
I guess it would be very interesting if it was actualy true. Also a very good idea for a spy movie or series.

blogfast25 - 13-7-2014 at 05:46

Hg:

I think he may be referring to 'Conservation of Information', here made simple [cough!]:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/conservation_of063671.h...

Made simple or not, it's above my pay grade. ;)

jock88 - 13-7-2014 at 06:13


The NSA already know whats on it.

mr.crow - 13-7-2014 at 10:36

In all seriousness you should physically destroy hard drives before throwing them out. Its nothing to do with NSA paranoia, just so creepy bastards don't try to steal personal information.

Just hit it once with a drill press. The aluminum is like butter.

violet sin - 13-7-2014 at 10:46

Capacitor bank spot weld, from the spindle bearing shaft on bottom to the read/write arm axis ? Could be wired in place on a working machine. Waiting for the flick of a switch... Or an accidental tripping, WAZATT... Followed by uggh, no! :0 ! Thanks a lot Mr. Kitty!?

[Edited on 13-7-2014 by violet sin]

TheAlchemistPirate - 13-7-2014 at 10:56

I would saw it into several pieces and cover it with a magnetic dust, then melt or dissolve it with chemicals. If there was really sensitive info on it I would use explosives on whatever was left for good measure :D

[Edited on 13-7-2014 by TheAlchemistPirate]

The Volatile Chemist - 13-7-2014 at 12:10

Make it look like it's sitting disconnected in your computer. Remove the interior components. Fill it with solder, making sure to short ALL of the pins together from the inside. It'll take the person who tries to read data off of it a while to figure out why their PSUs go out when they plug it in :P

hyfalcon - 13-7-2014 at 15:21

I like the way you think.

zenosx - 13-7-2014 at 15:40

Just fire a few rounds into it, or open the case and scratch it with anything. You could also put the disks in the microwave... a bit less dramatic than explosives but it will get the job done. The old way that the ORNL complex disposed of old drives was just to shoot them several times with a rifle :)

Mildronate - 14-7-2014 at 01:05

Are you speaking about workable or not workable hdd? If you use full HDD enscryption, after that format it and 5 or 6 times write noise on it you doesnt need to worry about safety i think. But its better to use HDD not at all, use Tiles on sd card for dangerous info.

chornedsnorkack - 14-7-2014 at 09:37

What does the hard disk drive physically consist of? Inside the metal shell?

Spindles, reader heads et cetera are not awfully important. Assume that whoever is working at the remains of the hard disk drive is using professional hardware to seek for fragments of information on the non-obliterated sections of the disc. Then what?

What is the magnetic material carrying the information? Cobalt what?

And what does the disk consist of that rotates under the read-write head?

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 09:42

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Thermite, cheap and fast and also effective.
Just keep a spare 500 gram bag hanging around for when the cops come knocking.

Texium - 14-7-2014 at 09:49

Quote: Originally posted by aldofad  
Yes you read correctly. Acides, explosive or thermites. I' m seeking the best way. The best is that wich leaves no traces.
I' ll try to realize to best way.

Cheers,
aldo

First reply to the topic, emphasis mine

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 09:54

Apologies, didn't notice that, just skim read.

Also, is english your first language?

Texium - 14-7-2014 at 10:05

Um, mine or his?
Also, why does it matter?

chornedsnorkack - 14-7-2014 at 10:08

Quote: Originally posted by Manifest  
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Thermite, cheap and fast and also effective.
Just keep a spare 500 gram bag hanging around for when the cops come knocking.


You need an optimum amount. Too little and it does not destroy the whole drive - too much, and it takes too much space inside the computer. Oh, and too conspicuous fire inside the computer, too.

Also: does your optimal thermite composition depend on whether your disc platter is aluminum (melts at 660 degrees, oxidizable) or glass/ceramic?

Does a hard disc stay readable all the way to Curie temperature, and what is it?

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 10:47

Yours, I find it hard to understand what you're saying sometimes.
For example:
Quote:

Yes you read correctly. Acides, explosive or thermites. I' m seeking the best way. The best is that wich leaves no traces.
I' ll try to realize to best way.


Acides is a simple typo, the sentence became kind of broken when you said explosive, it should be plural and it should be 'and thermites' you also need to add in what that answer was in reference to, as I didn't really understand what you meant by that.
Seeking the best way to what?

I'm not trying to insult, I just feel that people could understand you better if you write in complete english.

unionised - 14-7-2014 at 10:51

"The best is that which leaves no traces."
No chance.

Texium - 14-7-2014 at 10:52

That wasn't me. If you look carefully, you would notice that I was quoting a different member, aldofad.

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 11:36

How was that not you? Did you not type that reply?
I can't read your replies as they don't make sense, it doesn't matter if you were quoting someone or not.

@chornedsnorkack
Haha I didn't intend on fitting the thermite inside the computer chasis, it would be much more practical to leave it open and simply lift the harddrive out, go outside, place bag of thermite on top of hard drive and light.
I want the drive wiped, I don't want my house burned down in the process lol

SirViking - 14-7-2014 at 11:41

Quote: Originally posted by Manifest  
How was that not you? Did you not type that reply?
I can't read your replies as they don't make sense, it doesn't matter if you were quoting someone or not.


Zts was quoting a post from somebody else and was simply showing you what had been stated earlier in this thread.

All of Zts' comments make perfect sense to me, and I have never had an issue understanding what he is attempting to explain.

You should go to the first page of this thread and read the posts, you will see that Zts was not the individual that posted the comment that you had an issue with understanding.

[Edited on 7-14-2014 by SirViking]

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 11:46

Whoops, I assumed zts16 was the same poster as the first reply, aldofad.
Apologies zts, your comments make perfect sense to me aswell.


Can we get back on topic anyway?

[Edited on 14-7-2014 by Manifest]

The Volatile Chemist - 14-7-2014 at 13:10

Sure. My friend has successfully tested a hard-drive melting program... scary...

Brain&Force - 14-7-2014 at 13:37

As Cheddite Cheese said earlier, use an overwrite program, like Darik's Boot and Nuke:

http://www.dban.org/

But thermite is always a good idea; as would thermate or a melting furnace, like MrHomeScientist made. Disassembing and smashing the platters to bits also works.

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 14:01

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force  
As Cheddite Cheese said earlier, use an overwrite program, like Darik's Boot and Nuke:

http://www.dban.org/

But thermite is always a good idea; as would thermate or a melting furnace, like MrHomeScientist made. Disassembing and smashing the platters to bits also works.


I believe it can still be recovered although it is incredibly difficult, data needs to be overwritten for data to be truly removed and bad sectors will always have data written on them.

chornedsnorkack - 14-7-2014 at 14:08

Quote: Originally posted by Manifest  


@chornedsnorkack
Haha I didn't intend on fitting the thermite inside the computer chasis, it would be much more practical to leave it open and simply lift the harddrive out, go outside, place bag of thermite on top of hard drive and light.
I want the drive wiped, I don't want my house burned down in the process lol


Well, that depends on whether you count on having the time to remove the harddrive and carry it out... rather than fitting the demolition charge inside the computer chassis and set it off inconspicuously when the computer is searched.

How much temperature is needed to reliably destroy magnetic memory?

The underlying platter is either aluminum, glass or ceramic.

Aluminum platter melts at 660 Celsius. And melting it into liquid would destroy the magnetic record on surface.
Glass and ceramic may be more resistant. They might be cracked and shattered by thermal stresses, or soften and bend, but this does not mean specially suited reader heads at low speeds cannot read magnetic records on the fragments.
Heating the magnet over its Curie temperature would destroy the magnetic record, but the Curie temperature of cobalt is as much as over 1100 Celsius.

But the magnetic covering of hard disc is supposed to be included in a multilayer coating. What do these layers consist of?

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 14:40

I think you're going to add to your list of felonies when the cops are lifting and seizing your equipment and a bomb goes off inside the chassis taking hands off the cops.

WGTR - 14-7-2014 at 16:55


It would be easy to destroy a hard drive if hard drives were make out of nitrocellulose. Simply light one end, and FWOOOSH...gone. If this sounds absurd, well, that's because it is. What I'm saying, though, is if you want to destroy an object quickly, it makes sense to not make that object something that is difficult to destroy.

Big 5.25" hard drives have considerable mass, and trying to destroy one in your living room will either, A). Burn your house down with thermite. This is not really hypothetical. It WILL happen. Or, B). Destroy the hearing of both you and your little cat when your hard drive detonates unexpectedly (like while you're sitting there using the computer one day). You'll be sitting there surfing the web, and the cat will be sitting there licking herself, and then suddenly "BANG"!!! No fun.

Texium - 14-7-2014 at 16:58

Quote: Originally posted by WGTR  
B). Destroy the hearing of both you and your little cat when your hard drive detonates unexpectedly (like while you're sitting there using the computer one day). You'll be sitting there surfing the web, and the cat will be sitting there licking herself, and then suddenly "BANG"!!! No fun.
That sounds like such a weird and specific story that it would have had to come out of personal experience...

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 17:02

Yeah WGTR...... that was oddly specific....

WGTR - 14-7-2014 at 17:13

HA HA! No, I'm just waxing pathetic (poetic). That, and I've had way too much caffeine. Anyway, it's far better to keep your ambitions small. Try destroying SMALL things, like external uSD or USB cards. That way the whole mess can be contained in a small high-temp enclosure.

It often takes more to destroy something than you'd think. I was not surprised to see that the circuit boards were recovered almost intact from the incident in Boston. I've seen a 1lb shape charge go off right next to a circuit board, only to find the board 100 feet away, almost reusable. If portions of a hard drive platter are still recoverable, I can see the magnetic patterns when mounting it up in an SEM. Certainly a dedicated lab could read data off of that.

[Edited on 7-15-2014 by WGTR]

Töilet Plünger - 14-7-2014 at 17:27

Yeah, I would advise against blowing up a hard drive. I don't know how good data recovery techniques are, but chances are some data can be recovered from undamaged fragments of the platters. Keep the temps high (you want to hit the Curie point and remove the magnetism of the platters), and you want to ensure the platters end up in very small pieces or melted. Thermite or melting the HDD itself does this. (I would recommend thermite though.)

TheAlchemistPirate - 14-7-2014 at 17:53

In a situation where you don't have much time, and if you really wanted to go far, you could build a hidden enclosed high-temp furnace to throw the hard drive into. If that's not enough you could possibly make a device that lets you connect an electrode to each end, then puts a high-voltage current through it prior to putting it in the furnace.

gdflp - 14-7-2014 at 20:36

Filling the case of the hard drive with solid sodium hydroxide, then throwing it into a furnace will hit two points, reaching the Curie temp, and then dissolving most of the components.

chornedsnorkack - 14-7-2014 at 21:59

If you have the time, then one logical way for physical destruction is sandblasting.

The hard disc is about 1 mm thick platter of aluminum, glass or ceramic covered with a multilayer less than 1000 nm thick. You do not need to destroy the thickness of the platter by heat or chemically if you can destroy the thin multilayer. If you destroy it by sandblasting or sandpaper, cutting the surface layer into pieces micrometres across, good luck putting the dust back together.

What is the information-carrying surface multilayer, chemically? Could you dissolve it without wasting your reagents on the underlying platter?

WGTR - 15-7-2014 at 15:19

I hope the OP is thinking about hard drive destruction purely for purposes of amusement. Generally speaking, if you're at a point in your life where you need to destroy a drive on a moment's notice, you probably need to reanalyze your life's ambitions. Are your hobbies conducive to living a life in the "free world", or do you hope to one day end up on the six o'clock news?

There are a whole host of issues that I won't detail here, but suffice to say that without a lot of testing, any system that you design can't be trusted. That's just life in the engineering world. It may work when you don't want it to, or not work when you really need it.

Have fun.

TheChemiKid - 15-7-2014 at 17:23

Why is this still in Chemistry in general? Can someone please move it to Misc or whimsy?

Motherload - 15-7-2014 at 18:19

Extract the Cobalt, Platinum and Ruthenium from the nano particle magnetic layer.
This will take care of the erasing part.
The high RPM platter motor is fun to play with and so are the NIB magnets.
The Mg-Al housing can be ground down to powder and used to make flashpowder etc or thermite for the next drive ...


[Edited on 16-7-2014 by Motherload]

Ascaridole - 15-7-2014 at 18:45

Oxyacetylene torch... make sure to destroy the board also, I think oxyacetylene will take care of everything... mmmm.... oxidizing flame....

Bonee - 16-7-2014 at 04:28

Get a (big?) capacitor bank and a coil and when you need it blast the HDDs with an EMP

chornedsnorkack - 17-7-2014 at 07:43

Quote: Originally posted by Motherload  
Extract the Cobalt, Platinum and Ruthenium from the nano particle magnetic layer.
This will take care of the erasing part.

What chemical would efficiently extract these cobalt, platinum and ruthenium?

gdflp - 17-7-2014 at 15:53

Aqua regia will easily dissolve the platinum and cobalt, then a soak in sodium hypochlorite will attack the ruthenium.

chornedsnorkack - 18-7-2014 at 04:33

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
Aqua regia will easily dissolve the platinum and cobalt, then a soak in sodium hypochlorite will attack the ruthenium.


If the underlying platter is aluminum, it also dissolves in (and expends) aqua regia.
If it is glass then the metal layer might be washed off by aqua regia - if accessible. But what is the multilayer structure? Is platinum accessible to aqua regia, or protected from aqua regia attack by ruthenium?

zed - 18-7-2014 at 12:24

Grind it to dust. Hard drive? What hard drive?

If you like, you can use the resultant metal dust to produce thermite. Hah! Try to recover information from a puddle of iron, and some mixed metal oxides.

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html

unionised - 19-7-2014 at 03:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh9Ossuae_Y

blogfast25 - 19-7-2014 at 04:38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko

AJKOER - 19-7-2014 at 05:14

Quote: Originally posted by Bonee  
Get a (big?) capacitor bank and a coil and when you need it blast the HDDs with an EMP


I have seen in movies where the hard drive is effectively destroyed by just exposing it to a big magnet in a hand held bag.

A chemical attack of the Iron (with simply bleach, NaClO, salt and vinegar forming HOCl in an electrolyte with Fe, creating a so called bleach battery, which is a variation of the metal-air galvanic cell) may not be as effective, but a cheap slow chemistry based path.

On the other hand, creating a similar galvanic cell with Fe and Cu (or Pb) where there is a good flow of electrons through the Fe electrode (aka, your old hard drive) may really mess up any stored data. In other words, recycle your hard drive as part of your new home made over sized car battery for backup or connected to a solar panel.

[Edited on 19-7-2014 by AJKOER]

Zyklon-A - 19-7-2014 at 07:13

Quote: Originally posted by chornedsnorkack  
Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
Aqua regia will easily dissolve the platinum and cobalt, then a soak in sodium hypochlorite will attack the ruthenium.


If the underlying platter is aluminum, it also dissolves in (and expends) aqua regia.
If it is glass then the metal layer might be washed off by aqua regia - if accessible. But what is the multilayer structure? Is platinum accessible to aqua regia, or protected from aqua regia attack by ruthenium?

First dissolve the aluminum in HCl (aq) or some other acid, inert to platinum and ruthenium.
Then add aqua regia, and extract the platinum. And NaOCl to extract the ruthenium.
Although I'm not sure, I doubt that the Ru will protect the Pt, are they even in the same place?

Fenir - 19-7-2014 at 14:26

Wrap a coil of insulated wire around the drive. Then, attach the wire to a very large capacitor bank. The sudden pulse of EMF should destroy the info on the disk.

unionised - 20-7-2014 at 01:42

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Quote: Originally posted by Bonee  
Get a (big?) capacitor bank and a coil and when you need it blast the HDDs with an EMP


I have seen in movies where the hard drive is effectively destroyed by just exposing it to a big magnet in a hand held bag.

[Edited on 19-7-2014 by AJKOER]

I have seen lots of things in movies that don't happen in real life.

Fenir - 20-7-2014 at 06:38



[Edited on 20-7-2014 by Fenir]

Hennig Brand - 20-7-2014 at 08:16

Just put a large drill bit in your cordless drill or drill press and drill a large hole (off center) through the whole thing, case and all. I am not an expert on this topic, but I was at a computer repair shop a while back where they destroyed many hard drives this way before discarding. It is a very simply and quick procedure to perform and when asked the technicians said it was quite effective. Not sure if it would still be possible to get information off one of these drilled disks if someone was determined enough and had a lot of resources though.

Oh right, this is a chemistry forum. Ok, 10g of plastic explosive ought to do the trick. :D


[Edited on 20-7-2014 by Hennig Brand]

chornedsnorkack - 20-7-2014 at 11:58

Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  


Oh right, this is a chemistry forum. Ok, 10g of plastic explosive ought to do the trick. :D

Um, where is the chemistry in that?

So, what chemical treatment would recover the platinum and ruthenium in the hard disc? (obviously dissolving them would destroy the information as well).

papaya - 20-7-2014 at 12:55

Sorry, but this thread is silly and gets irritating to me (seeing it always on top), why you need to destroy hdd at all ? Ah, mid school fellow feels big about security... don't answer!

Hennig Brand - 20-7-2014 at 16:51

My comment about the plastic explosives may not have been the best form of humor, but it seemed like a fun way to get rid of a hard drive. Unless you have access to the commercial explosives supply lines then of course there is chemistry involved though yes. I think it is a very common thing for many non-criminals to want to have their old hard drives destroyed and there are many good reasons for it. I don't see it as a bad thread, but it would probably fit better on a computer forum or somewhere else.

chornedsnorkack - 21-7-2014 at 00:25

Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  
My comment about the plastic explosives may not have been the best form of humor, but it seemed like a fun way to get rid of a hard drive.

Fun, but how effective is it for fragmenting the whole disc finely enough, away from the epicentre?

Hennig Brand - 21-7-2014 at 07:56

Have a look at these pictures which show 14g being tested on a piece of structural steel. Yeah, I think a hard drive will be generally unusable after that kind of treatment.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17695&...

If you are really paranoid though and feel that the government is willing to spend a huge amount of resources getting the secrets off your hard drive I suggest taking the hard drive apart and taking a sandblaster or grinder to the platter(s).

I wonder what drilling a hole in the casing and pouring some concentrated sulfuric acid in there would do for us?

macckone - 21-7-2014 at 12:02

The best suggestion is to use an SD card which is relatively easy to destroy with simple cooking. Otherwise disassemble it and throw it
in a bath of molten sodium hydroxide.

unionised - 21-7-2014 at 12:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

Seriously, hitting delete will do the job well enough for most people and,as I pointed out rather early on, the OP's requirements ("The best is that wich leaves no traces") are impossible.

macckone - 21-7-2014 at 12:21

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

Seriously, hitting delete will do the job well enough for most people and,as I pointed out rather early on, the OP's requirements ("The best is that wich leaves no traces") are impossible.


Hitting delete doesn't even delete the file. It sends it to the recycle
bin. And even emptying the recycle bin doesn't remove the data.
Overwriting with zeros is good enough for most purposes unless
the FBI (or some other agency with almost unlimited funds) wants you
for something really insidious. Some linux versions have their own
version of the recycle bin. Same advice applies overwrite with zeros.

Fantasma4500 - 21-7-2014 at 12:25

ignore any above suggestion! the only way to possibly render a HD hard to get data out of is using a shaped charge with copper cone, preferably shot vertically onto the HD, +2kg of suitable secondary such as methyl nitrate and AN etc
this is quite a business secret and its known to be the only way to delete information

unionised - 21-7-2014 at 12:38

Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

Seriously, hitting delete will do the job well enough for most people and,as I pointed out rather early on, the OP's requirements ("The best is that wich leaves no traces") are impossible.


Hitting delete doesn't even delete the file. It sends it to the recycle
bin. And even emptying the recycle bin doesn't remove the data.
Overwriting with zeros is good enough for most purposes unless
the FBI (or some other agency with almost unlimited funds) wants you
for something really insidious. Some linux versions have their own
version of the recycle bin. Same advice applies overwrite with zeros.

Are you aware that the "most people" to whom I referred are not targets of the FBI?
Do you think that "most people" are in the habit of overwriting files (explicitly)?
Do you accept that nearly all of the time, they get away with this lack of security?

zed - 21-7-2014 at 15:49

Rendering unusable isn't the question. The question is..... "What is the best way to physically destroy a hard disk."

I assume the data herein must be finally and irrevocably destroyed. Simply F-Disking, ain't gonna cut it.

Many systems of erasure, leave data intact. Re-formating merely erases "chapter titles" so-to-speak.

Overwriting all data, should work to obscure original data, but I wouldn't bank on it.

No. If I were handling really sensitive data, I would damned sure destroy my hard-drives, when the situation called for it.

A muffle furnace might do a nice job of converting a hard drive to a puddle.

Find out what the US Military does with dicey hard drives. You can bet your ass, that they don't f-disk them, and sell them at the flea-market.

macckone - 21-7-2014 at 20:01

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  

Are you aware that the "most people" to whom I referred are not targets of the FBI?
Do you think that "most people" are in the habit of overwriting files (explicitly)?
Do you accept that nearly all of the time, they get away with this lack of security?

Most people should be concerned with vital data being left on
a hard drive when it is disposed of. Yet they ebay hard drives
with their credit card numbers, addresses, social security numbers,
etc. I accept that most people get away with it most of the time
but that doesn't mean the OP wants to use the delete key. In
fact it is quite clear that isn't the question. But rather the
effective destruction of data.

[Edited on 22-7-2014 by macckone]

IrC - 21-7-2014 at 23:56

Instead of 4 pages of answers just ask the experts:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/21/irs-seeks-he...

Praxichys - 22-7-2014 at 07:33

The best way is simple.

Store everything "sensitive" on a SD flash card. You can get 128GB cards. I keep all my chem books/pdfs on a 32GB microSD (They're about $15) which is about the size of a thumb nail and about a millimeter thick. In an emergency the flash chip can be destroyed easily and discreetly with something as simple as the flame from a lighter or a single hammer blow. It is also very easy to hide. You could even swallow it.



They usually plug right into laptops, but can be paired with a little USB card reader on a desktop PC. If you really wanted to get nutty about it, get a little RadioShack project box, put the card reader inside it, and make a shielded switch on the top of the box that simultaneously disconnects the computer and nukes the card with mains voltage or a photoflash capacitor.

zed - 22-7-2014 at 15:01

The above linked article, doesn't mention how these hard-drives should be destroyed. Just says the Federal Government has 3200 or so, that need to be destroyed.

IrC - 22-7-2014 at 17:39

Neither does your post stating the obvious about my post answer the OP's question, this thread does not belong in chemistry in general, and 4 pages on this subject is nauseating. A grinder, a torch, a hammer, thermite, small nuclear weapons; all will destroy hard drives. What else needs to be said.

The Volatile Chemist - 23-7-2014 at 06:07

I like the idea of swallowing the microSD. I'll have to get one :)
And WHAT I'd do with 3200 Hard drives! (either make a GIANT shiny mirror out of the platters, or make a good ole Beowulf cluster :) )

chornedsnorkack - 23-7-2014 at 07:00

Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  
Have a look at these pictures which show 14g being tested on a piece of structural steel. Yeah, I think a hard drive will be generally unusable after that kind of treatment.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17695&...

Unusable for what? High speed rotation in its original casing, sure. But specialized hardware, like a reading head following the bent platter at a low speed?
Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  

If you are really paranoid though and feel that the government is willing to spend a huge amount of resources getting the secrets off your hard drive I suggest taking the hard drive apart and taking a sandblaster or grinder to the platter(s).

Sandblaster, probably.
Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  

I wonder what drilling a hole in the casing and pouring some concentrated sulfuric acid in there would do for us?


Aluminum is passivated by concentrated sulphuric acid, and platinum and rhodium are passive, as are glass and ceramic.

gdflp - 23-7-2014 at 07:18

The NSA standard for deleting files is overwriting them 35 times. Nothing can be recovered after that.

unionised - 23-7-2014 at 11:01

Did it occur to you that the NSA have a clear interest in providing misleading information about this subject?

This thread is long and in many places silly (as much down to me as to anyone)

However there is a serious underlying point.
There are many places in the world where regularly visiting this site would be regarded by "the authorities" as subversive and sufficient grounds for investigation.
Much as I like the idea of putting sensitive data on micro cards, I really don't think I can persuade my computer to do that with my web history and all the associated "incriminating" files. It's just not fast enough (yet)

So the OP raises a couple of valid points.
How can I delete my files in such a way that they are really gone?
In that case the NSA's advice- overwrite them 35 times- will do the job, but will take a long time.
If the police are banging on your door you might stall them for a few seconds by saying you are in the bathroom, but that's not going to give you time to remove the files totally.

If you are in a real hurry to "shred" the data then perhaps the best advice I could give would be to use a big hammer (because those are legal in practically any jurisdiction).
And when the officers ask "Why did you just smash up your computer?" you tell them that it had crashed for the tenth time this week and you lost your temper.

It won't help much- they can get the records from your ISP- but it might give you a chance if they think you are small fry and they have scarred you off.

[Edited on 23-7-14 by unionised]

Varmint - 24-7-2014 at 10:13

The absolute method of hard drive data destruction:

Take the platter cover off, remove the screws that keep the "cap ring" in place over the platters.

Remove the top platter, hit both sides with a orbital sander with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper until there is obviously no coating left and you are into bare base metal. Repeat the removal/sanding process for each platter.

Remove the circuit board and any copper or steel from the aluminum chassis, and throw the chassis in your aluminum recyle pile, along with the sanded platters.

Last thing is the magnets. Want some insanely powerful magnets? Do a youtube search for how to remove them from the head actuator mechanism. Be careful.

Once separated from their steel carriers, the magnets are quite fragile, and have enough power to smash together at sufficient velocity to cause breakage. These are very near the top in terms of magnetic force achievable in solid materials, so it would be a shame to just toss them.

DAS

Hennig Brand - 24-7-2014 at 10:34

Quote: Originally posted by chornedsnorkack  
Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  
Have a look at these pictures which show 14g being tested on a piece of structural steel. Yeah, I think a hard drive will be generally unusable after that kind of treatment.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17695&...

Unusable for what? High speed rotation in its original casing, sure. But specialized hardware, like a reading head following the bent platter at a low speed?
Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  

If you are really paranoid though and feel that the government is willing to spend a huge amount of resources getting the secrets off your hard drive I suggest taking the hard drive apart and taking a sandblaster or grinder to the platter(s).

Sandblaster, probably.
Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  

I wonder what drilling a hole in the casing and pouring some concentrated sulfuric acid in there would do for us?


Aluminum is passivated by concentrated sulphuric acid, and platinum and rhodium are passive, as are glass and ceramic.


Well you seem to be going right after me. :)

If the appropriate amount of HE was used I think it would do a hell of a lot more than just bend a platter. Have you actually tested this? I might just for giggles. It is, however, not really the best method if you need to be sure that all data is destroyed.

Sulfuric acid sounds like a bad idea. Ok, well how about a concentrated sodium hydroxide solution, that should work better given the hard drive materials of construction, but I doubt chemical methods are really the best alternative anyway.

Don't you think a grinder, or dremel tool with grinder attachment or belt sander could do a perfect job of removing the surface of the platter(s) and destroying the data? It would seem to me that more people would have some kind of electrically powered grinding device or sander than would have a sandblaster. ;)


[Edited on 25-7-2014 by Hennig Brand]

jock88 - 26-7-2014 at 15:17


I cannot believe this thread is as old as it is and only 4 pages long:P;)

Anyhow a question. Would a great big electromagnetic coil surrounding the hard drive erase/corrupt beyond retrieval, the data on the drive?

You could have a great big coil wound around the hard drive in the pc and at the appropriate moment (when the huns are barging in the door) discharge a large pulse of current through the coil.
The metal (Al) of the 'platter box' might protect the platter. In that case purchase one of those drives that have a perspex cover on them.
What ya think?

The Volatile Chemist - 26-7-2014 at 19:49

Quote: Originally posted by jock88  

I cannot believe this thread is as old as it is and only 4 pages long:P;)

Anyhow a question. Would a great big electromagnetic coil surrounding the hard drive erase/corrupt beyond retrieval, the data on the drive?

You could have a great big coil wound around the hard drive in the pc and at the appropriate moment (when the huns are barging in the door) discharge a large pulse of current through the coil.
The metal (Al) of the 'platter box' might protect the platter. In that case purchase one of those drives that have a perspex cover on them.
What ya think?

Sounds Good! I don't know if it'd work though. Something like a coil gun, is that what you're talking about? W/ the coil 'round the HD?

S.C. Wack - 26-7-2014 at 20:35

Might an arc welder do bad things?

macckone - 27-7-2014 at 10:47

FYI at work we shred the drives.
It takes about 45 seconds per drive.
The company that does the shredding then
melts all of the fragments and sells the
residue to a precious/rare earth processor.
The shredder is like a high efficiency wood chipper
that produces flakes 1 to 2 mm across.

The Volatile Chemist - 27-7-2014 at 15:39

Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
FYI at work we shred the drives.
It takes about 45 seconds per drive.
The company that does the shredding then
melts all of the fragments and sells the
residue to a precious/rare earth processor.
The shredder is like a high efficiency wood chipper
that produces flakes 1 to 2 mm across.

That's sweet :) How much does it cost?

hyfalcon - 28-7-2014 at 14:43

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Might an arc welder do bad things?


Plasma cutter would be even better.

macckone - 29-7-2014 at 07:07

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
FYI at work we shred the drives.
It takes about 45 seconds per drive.
The company that does the shredding then
melts all of the fragments and sells the
residue to a precious/rare earth processor.
The shredder is like a high efficiency wood chipper
that produces flakes 1 to 2 mm across.

That's sweet :) How much does it cost?

I am not involved in paying the bill so I have no idea.
My guess is that it is a few dollars per drive.
But we shred a lot of them so it is quite a bit.
They come out about every three months and
shred 100s if not 1000s of them.

The Volatile Chemist - 4-8-2014 at 03:12

I've been keeping some chemistry books on my camera's SD card :P Good safe place :)