Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Sigma Aldrich

Sigma Aldrich

Kman100 - 11-1-2005 at 15:42

Hello,

I have a question regarding Sigma Aldrich (http://www.sigmaaldrich.com). I am an individual wishing to establish an account with them to purchase some chemicals.

Does anyone have any experience with them? If so, is it easy to obtain an account?

Thanks.

good luck.

blazter - 11-1-2005 at 15:45

Heh heh, seems like I recall reading in an aldrich catalog that they would only do business with established businesses, and expressly stated that they would not sell to individuals. Now if one was to establish their own company, there may be a chance, but assume that any concerned governmental agency will probably get your name should you order from them.

HRH_Prince_Charles - 11-1-2005 at 15:56

If you do manage to order, please don't tell everyone how you did it. Thanks.

Nuke_Dukem - 11-1-2005 at 16:47

Dont bother with them. German and other european places are better. Like lancaster, pfaltz bauer, alfa aesar, elf etc etc . Just give them a name of some fake university. You can order pretty much anything.

Kman100 - 11-1-2005 at 18:15

Thanks for all the tips.

Nuke, why are European places better? Also, I was already thinking of making up a fake business name, but the university idea sounds good.

Is it okay to do this? Will they do a check to make sure this "fake university" exists?

Anyone have experience with creating a fake organization (business or university) to obtain an account w/ a professional chemical supply co.?
Thanks all.

HNO3 - 11-1-2005 at 18:22

I get all my catalogs under the name Superior Research Intstitute. Sure hope that isn't a real business. Anyway if you feel like it, sent me an email and I'll asign you a branch number.

Hey, why not?

Kman100 - 11-1-2005 at 18:27

Heh, I sent you an e-mail boss.

I hope to be receiving my branch number shortly.

I'll have the reports on your desk by Friday.

HNO3 - 11-1-2005 at 19:46

Sorry haven't tried Fischer

. I have gotten a catalog from Alfa Aesar, no problem. I got a catalog but couldn't order from Spectrum Chemicals do to other problems (credit card, DEA number, tax number, etc:mad

. And as to those reports...
OOPS! umm, could you give me an address so I can keep track of all my "branches"? No, I couldn't care less, but if someone thinks I'm making drugs... *shudders violently, falls over dead* Other than that, you are now officially SRI Branch #2.

Nuke_Dukem - 12-1-2005 at 05:18

European places are better because theyre out of the DEA's jurisdiction. Even here in canada a person would have no problem buying some chemicals that if bought in the USA would raise a red flag. Even real chemists who have legitimate buisnesses get the third degree from sigma, having to answer all kinds of curious questions and fill out DEA forms.

Cloner - 12-1-2005 at 07:59

So, you pretend to be an institute and that's it? We've got tax numbers in the netherlands which institutes and businesses have, but private persons don't. I can imagine though that an american company has never heard of the tax number. Since it goes with purchase orders most of the time, it's not that easy to fake stuff, although I could think of ways. In the end it all boils down to someone having your adress, and you receiving a package there. It surprises me that there aren't any problems when the customs office check on the package...

Nuke_Dukem - 12-1-2005 at 09:01

Ive never had a problem with customs, I have ordered stuff from pfaultz and bauer and ABCR.de several times and have never been hassled with ID numbers or anything like that. They always ask what buisness I am from and I tell them that im a chemistry student at [Blank] university and they get my shipping address and give me a quote and its as simple as that. I havent had a problem yet.

Kman100 - 12-1-2005 at 11:36

Pfaltz and Bauer seems to be my favorite choice out of the companies I've looked at. They have a huge inventory and carry alkali metals, which is great. They'll even do a custom synthesis for you.

I'm in the US and the customs can be strict sometimes, due to terrorism etc.

I mean, I just hope a thing as innocuous as Copper Sulfate won't get me flagged down for making bombs, hehe.

Oh well, I'm going to call and try to establish an account.

HNO3, what kind of address due you want me to send you?

Kman100 - 12-1-2005 at 11:38

Hmm, I was just looking at their site.

Pfaltz and Bauer is located in Connecticut?

unionised - 12-1-2005 at 13:57

Just to complicate the story...
At work a few weeks back I needed some (fairly obscure and toxic) chemical and it was in aldrich's catalogue so I ordered it. They rang me up to tell me that it was only available in the USA. I asked why it was in the UK catalogue and they told me that the rules had changed recently.

HNO3 - 12-1-2005 at 14:33

Country, city, street, name. *Boy, this will be a good way to get everyones addresses*

Maybe we could have random remailers, too. So like some one could order through a "branch" and then the "branch" could remail it to the person who wanted it in the first place.

Eliteforum - 13-1-2005 at 02:54

Quote:

Originally posted by HNO3
I get all my catalogs under the name Superior Research Intstitute. Sure hope that isn't a real business. Anyway if you feel like it, sent me an email and I'll asign you a branch number.

Hey, why not?

Hehe! My "Company" is called PreLim Research! What's the rest of yours?

fvcked - 13-1-2005 at 02:59

So wait, you just order the chems and plug in a fake company, and tell them to send the chems to where?

Eliteforum - 13-1-2005 at 05:21

Anywhere that's not your house!

Joeychemist - 13-1-2005 at 05:52

I paid $150 CAN to get the business license so my company is registered and perfectly legal if they try and look it up.

getting a business license

Magpie - 13-1-2005 at 19:09

There is a thread on this subject on this board somewhere. Getting a license seems like a good idea but I had some reservations. One is, would you have to describe your activities in detail to the municipality issuing said license? If you did you would likely be disqualified because your residence was not zoned for chem lab activities, waste disposal, etc. Another concern is do you have to file a tax return? I believe it was Hermes who noted that the IRS is much more likely than the DEA to get in your shorts bigtime if everything isn't kosher moneywise.

Cloner - 14-1-2005 at 04:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Eliteforum
Anywhere that's not your house!

I have gotten so far. Though I am only using a friends adress with some reservations and certainly not for ordering dangerous stuff

If there are commercial places that offer the option of package reception though...

Mendeleev - 14-1-2005 at 05:54

I can't believe the fake business thing works. I would have thought that the chem companies would have checked something like that.

guaguanco - 14-1-2005 at 10:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Mendeleev
I can't believe the fake business thing works. I would have thought that the chem companies would have checked something like that.

It doesn't, really. These people aren't stupid, and have to answer to the DEA like anyone else.
Probably if you limit your orders things like Potassium Sulphate and pH paper, they aren't going to expend a lot of resources to track you down: you just look like any other customer. Methylamine Hydrochloride is a different story.
Exploring the boundaries of what is safe or unsafe to order could be exciting. Every knock on your door gives you a blast of adrenline.

[Edited on 14-1-2005 by guaguanco]

The_Davster - 14-1-2005 at 12:56

Quote:

Originally posted by guaguanco
Every knock on your door gives you a blast of adrenline.

[Edited on 14-1-2005 by guaguanco]

I know what that is like. Many years ago when I was just getting into chemistry/pyro, I made the mistake of ordering KNO3, S8, C all from the same supplier in the same order, and it was not a pyro supplier, it was a real scientific company. They know my name, adress everything

. I am afraid that will come back to haunt me some day.

...

Out of curiosity, how many of you order chems to your real name, and home adress?

[Edited on 14-1-2005 by rogue chemist]

rift valley - 14-1-2005 at 13:56

You're afrid they'll come after you for odering the components of black powder? I have wanted to buy some nitric acid for some time now (not intended for explosives) is this not a bright idea? I was planning on buying say a liter of 70%

Nuke_Dukem - 14-1-2005 at 18:14

Quote:

It doesn't, really. These people aren't stupid, and have to answer to the DEA like anyone else.

Dude only american companies have to answer to the DEA. I dont see why anybody would bother fucking around with sigma when theres tons of places that are just as good that arent located in the US. IMO saying youre a student at such and such university is the best way to go. You can have it shipped to your own residence also without worrying that they might find that suspicios. The only reason I see to fabricate your own faux buisness is if your going to be ordering large quantities of watched chems. Other than that I would go with the University thing.

Kman100 - 16-1-2005 at 13:42

Hey Nuke, I'm definitely going to go with Pfaltz and Bauer.

Any other questions besides the intended purpose and shipping address?

Also, once I have an account with them, will I be able to do repeat orders without the whole interrogation process?

Nuke_Dukem - 16-1-2005 at 16:25

there is no interrogation process. they ask for you name, shipping address, method of payment and compay name, thats all.

riisa - 1-3-2008 at 23:40

Hello all!

1st I'd like to say what a fine place sciencemadness is! This is my first time posting, but I've been browsing for quite some time. I think it's great how willing everyone is to help everyone else, even the noobs

2nd I'd like to apologize for resurrecting a long-dead thread, please forgive me

Finally to the point.
What's the final word on Alfa Aesar? Will they ship to an individual in the USA if given a (possibly false

) company or university name? I've seen people claim both ways...so what's the story?

Nicodem - 2-3-2008 at 00:10

Welcome.
You might want to read this thread and discuss your topic there.

Sauron - 2-3-2008 at 01:02

The thread author lives in USA. Therefore ordering from European suppliers who have no distribution in USA will mean he will have to pay huge shipping and then deal with US Customs, no fun.

If his Euro vendor has distributor in USA, then they are just as much under the thumb of the DEA as any American company.

I agree, Aldrich are arrogant and overpriced.

But there is no simple solution for an individual residing in USA.

It is also ridiculous to postulate that DEA does not have counterparts in EU member nations, and that DEA does not have resident agents in every US Embassy who cooperate with their counterparts. Because of course - they do.

riisa - 2-3-2008 at 14:32

Thanks guys :cool:

Sauron - 2-3-2008 at 21:22

If you are in the US you need a REAL company and the all important EIN (Employer's Identification Number) which is your IRS tax number for the comp[any.

If you are in EU you need to be VAT registered and no you can't use a fake company name, or a fake VAT number.

The minute you start using bogus information you make yourself suspect to the seller and to the authorities.

chemrox - 2-3-2008 at 21:26

Nobody is going to keep score on what you buy at the chemical company. They just want to do business with people that won't cause then to spend extra time justifying their sales. They used to be much easier to set up with. Now its almost like getting a DEA number. I don't know about chemicals but I do know you can buy equipment from them with a credit card while your account application is pending. As an individual you could establish yourself as a researcher or consultant. Otherwise better stick to the companies that cator to hobbyists. They can order stuff for you that isn't on their lists.

riisa - 3-3-2008 at 00:38

Does anybody know if someone could get a business license for a "non-profit research company?" I'd be more than willing to pay for a license, but I don't know what all is involved with something like that. Anyone have experience in this field? It sounds like evil_lurker has done something like this...

Sauron - 3-3-2008 at 01:02

Consult a lawyer.

Sole propietorship, partnership, or corporation?

The term is "not-for-profit" and you can expect to have to adhere to that. The local, state and federal tax people will want to make sure that you really are not for profit, in order to maintain tax exempt status with them. So you will have to have some accounting burden and maintain records of all expenditures.

I'd advise you to describe it as a research and educational organization.

Remember, we are not talking about a sham, but a real thing.