Sciencemadness Discussion Board - possibility for THC extraction

possibility for THC extraction

Mendeleev - 15-1-2005 at 21:18

Okay, I realize this is somewhat of a controversial topic because this is not a drug forum, but this is chemistry related. If the mods feel it is innapropriate please remove it. Okay, here goes:

I was wondering if it would be possible to extract pure THC from marijuana. I'm sure there must be some sort of series of solvent extractions that can be done much like the purification of morphine from opium or cocaine from coca. So far I can only speculate on how to do this with THC. I know however that THC is insoluble in water but soluble in oil.

I propose something along the lines of the following: About a quarter pound ($200) of some low quality marijuana is ground up with a mortar and pestel to a powder consistency. Boil about a liter of water and drop all the herb in it to boil for 10 minutes, then vacuum filter on a very fine filter, while hot. This should remove all the water soluble junk.

Next you need to get rid of the plant matter: leaves, stems, etc. Sulfuric acid is probably the optimum candidate for this, so the residue on the filter is added to 1L 35% sulfuric acid and left to stand for a little while then filtered. I am not sure about this step because I do not know if THC dissolves or undergoes a reaction with sulfuric acid. Assuming this step works what you have left is THC, with a few other chemicals, as most of the plant matter and water soluble crap has been removed.

Final step extract the THC with a solvent that is THC specific. I do not know what such a solvent is, but THC is soluble in oil(cooking) so this is a possibility. Evaporate the solvent under vacuum(this is why oil might be a bad choice) and you should be left with pure THC. Again I have made quite a few assumptions and perhaps this process will not work, but I'm sure there is definitely some way it can be done.

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 15-1-2005 at 21:48

Best way, is to finely powder your green goodness, pack it in a long narrow tube, and vent liquid butane down it, make sure the tube has a screen on the end to catch particulate matter.

Butane is an excellent solvent for cannabinoids, and the resulting honey oil is in the 90% THC range I believe, and the inactive cannabinoids also extracted can be isomerised to delta-9-THC by the right treatment with concentrated H2SO4.

Yields are quite low, but is well put to use if you have ounces, halfs, or even masses of shade leaf from growth, I got a few drops of oil from one ten bag (UK) of good potency skunk, but a droplet less than a match head in size smoked in my pipe, well, incapacitated would be the correct term to use

And DO use high quality pot if you were,theretically of course, to dream of doing that, as they say, garbage in, garbage out

[Edited on 16-1-2005 by Reverend Necroticus Rex]

S.C. Wack - 15-1-2005 at 23:25

You will find more answers in a pot forum.

http://www.overgrow.com/edge/forumdisplay.php?daysprune=&...

PainKilla - 16-1-2005 at 09:58

THC is basically impossible to extract in crystal form as it's been proven that it does not like to form crystal masses. So, oil would be what you are looking for... The butane extraction is supposed to work well, but a solvent extraction works just as well too. Acetone, and alcohol's extract THC well. Acetone does get some other unneeded stuff too, (chlorphyll tannins etc) so Ethanol would be reccomended.

Also, soaking your marijuana in a mild high ph (like 8-10) results in decarboxalation of the THC-COOH, which remains inactive, to THC; other cannabinoids seem to undego this process too. The H+ protonation seems to rotate the the low order THC's into the delta 9/8/1/6. A most useful technique

.

BTW, I was wondering whether anyone had information on the production of THC acetate, which is supposedly more potent. It is made via reflux of acetic anhydride and pure THC (oil).

Blind Angel - 16-1-2005 at 12:36

According to the merck it constitue only 1% of the plant material and there's a reference too:
Isolation of Delta1-3,4-trans-form from marihuana: Gaoni, Mechoulam. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 86, 1646 (1964)

PainKilla - 16-1-2005 at 13:15

Actual THC is only 1%, but cannabinoids make up a lot... I had a reference somewhere, Ill try and find it.... not realting to this but:

hermes did you ever do that synth of acetic anhydride via Na-acetate and co2?

Ill be trying it in a few days (waiting for my mixture to evaporate :p )

JustMe - 16-1-2005 at 13:28

Best solvent for said compound is Chloroform. Don't ask/don't tell.

Dodoman - 16-1-2005 at 13:49

Quote:

Research has shown that chloroform is the best solvent in the extraction; it extracts 98% of cannabinoids with one half hour of shaking

This quote is from a file called "Michael Starks - Marijuana Chemistry [Genetics, Processing & Potency].pdf" you can find it on the ftp.

It also sugessts to further purify by shaking the organic layer with water and separating the two layers. This is clearly better than your idea Mendeleev because if you boil with water first you'll make it harder for the organic solvent to infeltrate the fibers of the plant cause it'll be filled with water.

S.C. Wack - 16-1-2005 at 14:13

What about the chlorophyll? I believe that is why pet. ether is so used. BTW, the THC is on the surface of the plant.

PainKilla - 16-1-2005 at 14:28

Acetone works well too, its just that it extracts everything... Im serious it rips apart the whole plant and you get left with celluose basically. It is good for using to add H+ into though

Mendeleev - 16-1-2005 at 15:37

Wow, I am pleasantly surprised by all the replies

. This is good. I guess the process goes something like: soak cannabis in liquid butane or chloroform or maybe even petroleum ether for a little while, say an hour, then filter, then wash with water a couple of times or maybe even wash with NaOH to decarboxylate the THC-COOH like PainKilla said. Liquid butane has the advantage that it is very easy to evaporate off.

Code:

According to the merck it constitue only 1% of the plant material

Maybe 1% of the entire plant or maybe in very low grade cannabis which is cultivated for the hemp and not the smoke, however many high quality strains have more than 20% THC.

Is it really impossible to crystallize THC? I was hoping it would be possible to insufflate it.

[Edited on 16-1-2005 by Mendeleev]

S.C. Wack - 16-1-2005 at 16:03

The 1% that Merck refers to is on the delta-6 isomer.

Mendeleev - 16-1-2005 at 16:22

http://www.marinol.com/marinol02.html

Holy shit, synthetic THC pills! First time I ever heard of this!

I looked on the cannabis forum, the extraction is pretty straightforward, pack a long thin tube with a screen on the end with cannabis and spray 8 times the weight of butane down it. Let it stand and vaporize and you've got THC oil.

PainKilla - 16-1-2005 at 16:28

DON"T ingest the THC from marinol. it is not the kind you think it is. The marinol removes many of the "good" parts of marijuana and is in fact often scolded by users, who prefer medical marijuana (smoked) to trea their symptoms. I reccomend using NaHCO3 as it is more mild and has lesser chance of having heavy metals and all that (unless you have ACS grade.) My freind Jesus, almost has a batch finished.... PM "Jesus" for details.

----EDIT, anyone have information on THC acetate, this is the best I could find---

[Edited on 17-1-2005 by PainKilla]

JustMe - 16-1-2005 at 18:43

painkilla,

Wow, I remember reading that same article/book many, many, MANY moons ago. Really takes me back, way back. LOL

Thanx... for the memories (cue the music).

Solvents...

enima - 17-1-2005 at 12:56

Butane for a supercritical extraction (best)
Hexane works well as a general solvent

Alcohols and Acetone will result in a very dirty extraction. Stick to the two above.

Darkfire - 17-1-2005 at 13:32

NaOH can realy do a decarboxilation? I've always thought they were the high temp and pressure type of reaction.

sparkgap - 18-1-2005 at 09:31

The only decarboxylations I know that good old caustic soda can do at easily attained conditions is decarboxylation of carboxylic acids with carbonyl groups one carbon away (to be precise, beta-keto acids). That's the final step in the malonate and acetoacetate type syntheses.

I have yet to see the structure of THC acid, so I'm just speculating. Maybe it has that special moiety...

S.C. Wack - 18-1-2005 at 09:47

It is allegedly as easy as refluxing in solvent, or heating the plant material without solvent, but I have no refs other than the underground word. I bet decarboxylation would give a few hits at overgrow.

PainKilla - 18-1-2005 at 11:32

Baking soda works at doing this, a mild pH of about 9 causes decarboxalation in THC acid. Rotation of higher order THC (like delta 9 etc) is causes by H+ protonation is a solvent. "Jesus" performs these procedures quite often and redeposits it on the bud, using acetone. The result is a pale "sickly" looking bud, that has visible crystal growth all over it

Extraction of psychoactive material from cannabis

CycloKnight - 7-2-2005 at 05:08

I've carried out the soxhlet extraction of the psychoactive ingredients of cannabis at least a dozen times in the past.
I deleted most of my original photos, but just by chance I found this one still on my camera.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/scipics/soxhlet.jpg

I found that a simplified procedure for the extraction of pure cannabis oil (not pure THC, but still extremely potent) could be used that was quite effective, and produced a thick, translucent yellow oil, essentially the same as "honey oil".

This is how I did it:
1) Soxhlet extract cannabis for several hours using "dry" ethanol as solvent. That's right, ordinary ethanol (as dry as possible, 95% should be okay).
2) Filter it really good. I used vacuum filtration. Colour will be medium to dark green.
3) Now the magic part and this is why you can use ethanol do the extraction: Combine with activated carbon, mix it good and filter. Repeat this again. You will now be left with a very light yellow tincture! All chlorophyll has now been removed.
4) Distill off the solvent entirely under vacuum using a vigreux column to minimise product carry-over. This also removes the water which will be present from the extraction. If you do not have a vigreux column or equivalent, just distill very slowly - it will help to contain you product in the boiling flask. You will now be left with a rich, deep golden coloured slightly viscious liquid.
This next step is optional. If you feel it necessary, you may combine this liquid with a suitable organic solvent (ether, toluene, ect) and wash with dH2O, then back-extract that dH2O to minimise your losses. This will remove salts that have be extracted from the plant material. The organic solvent is then removed by vac. distillation and then continue with step 5. The necessity of this extra step depends on 3 factors:
a) Quality of plant material, was it well cured, was it full of fertilizer before extraction? If so, do the wash. If a relatively large volume of plant material was extracted (i.e. leaves, trimmings, swag, etc), then do the wash.
b) Was ethanol dry? The drier the less salts that will have been pulled out.
c) Are salts going to be an issue? In practice I've found that the nitrate that gets pulled into the oil actually makes the final oil burn alot better. Organic material (whatever) that has been impregnated with ToC will burn much better than oil which has had all the salts removed.

5) Dilute with pure ethanol (non-denatured, use non toxic type!) to make up "Tincture of Cannabis". Inject it into ordinary "sticks" of organic (can I say "herbal"?) material to make what are known as "Reefers" (preferably the kind without filters), not that I know anything about that sort of thing. A dropper works very well for this, and the tincture dries in seconds. Its easy to dry layer upon layer to build up the potency to "unreal" levels, so I've read. I also read (or dreamt, I don't recall) that a dropper and a 15ml bottle of concentrated ToC is an instant "joint-o-matic" that will keep a party going all night (assuming it's that kind of party, and a supply of cigarrettes - hand rolled are best). 1 ounce of high quality bud will produce about 90 ml of tincture, and it will lasts longer than you would think (high potency, and high efficiency smoking in a pipe or vapourizer = lasts long time!)
I should also say, that I first started using n-hexane for the soxhlet extractions, then diethyl ether. Then I started the extractions with alcohol, removed the alcohol, then extracted with ether. A fair amount of time, work, and odours! I found it to be unnecessary.
I have never used chloroform, so I can't comment about that. (I mean for the soxhlet extractions...)
My experience based on the solvents I've used indicates that THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ACTIVATED CARBON. No lab should be without activated carbon, it really cleans up the tincture good. IT REMOVES ALL OF THE CHLOROPHYLL. Solvent juggling to get the active ingredients without extracting any chlorophyll is very difficult. Butane is dangerous. I have done the butane extraction, but it can be difficult to get a good extraction. Could you imagine extracting with butane for several hours? Activated carbon is cheap and widely available. If you are interested in producing cannabis tincture - get the carbon. I still have some of the cannabis oil left, I could post a picture if anyone wants to see.
The final light yellow oil could then be worked to isolate the THC, but I have never carried that out.

PainKilla, those pictures about THC acetate are text from the book entitled "Marijuana Alchemy", by D.Gold.
It's an interesting little book.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by CycloKnight]

BASF - 9-2-2005 at 09:16

painkilla: i rather think the sodium-salt of thc-cooh will dissolve in aqueous phase.....no decarboxylation just by adjusting pH to pH9. Wether it helps decarboxylate at lower temperatures? ..... i guess that if you have the thc-cooh in aqueous solution(in which it is much more soluble than in organic sovents), it would even be more stable at pH 8-9 (stronger solvatitsation).
Maybe high excess of NaOH would help? - >>pH 10.

Of course it seems interesting.....you wouldnt need vacuum or inertgase-equipment for decarboxylation.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by BASF]

trilobite - 9-2-2005 at 16:16

The carboxylic acid derivatives are decarboxylated very easily by heating the plant material. I think it was 15 minutes at 120 degrees centigrade but this is from top of my head. Yes, this has been verified also in the scientific literature. Did you know that alcoholic KOH is a reagent for testing THC because of decomposition with formation of color? No need to make things harder than they are. The most selective solvent for the extraction are aliphatic hydrocarbons, but I question how effective the brief cold liquid butane treatment actually can be. One thing is sure: it is FAR from being supercritical. It's a plain crude liquid extraction. Check out the critical temperature and pressure for butane if you don't believe me. Soxhlet with hexane or bp 60-80C pet ether would of course be different in regards of effectiveness. The acetyl-THC thing is an urban legend, it has been discussed and debated throughly in the past.

Oh how threads like this make me wish the Hive was up again... Interesting to read about the ethanol and active charcoal though, but I'm quite sure it will also mean some losses.

JohnWW - 9-2-2005 at 23:29

Cycloknight talks of using 95% ethanol as the solvent for cannabis oil. Because 95% ethanol carries a very high excise tax/duty in most countries, it is quite expensive, unless you can distil your own from materials like sugar, whey, sugary fruits, or starch. It is likely to be cheaper in many places to buy substitutes like methanol, propanol, isopropanol (the 68% azeotrope sold as "rubbing alcohol" is probably not good enough, though), tert-butanol (forms a 65% azeotrope); or else acetone. Most other otherwise suitable solvents are not completely miscible with water, or they form an azeotrope which is over half water. Whatever is used could, in theory, be distilled off afterwards, although contaminated by water in the case of those that form azeotropes. Of course, "denatured alcohol" or "methylated spirits", sold in supermarkets as a cleaning agent or fuel, being ethanol adulterated with methanol, a blue dye, and other substances such as pyridine or sucrose acetate to make it unpalatable, is much cheaper, but the contaminants may be undesirable for solvent extraction.

[Edited on 10-2-2005 by JohnWW]

[Edited on 10-2-2005 by JohnWW]

easy THC extraction

prole - 4-8-2005 at 06:00

I have dreamt many times of extracting THC from cannabis using solvents, mostly alcohols. Every time I was left with pleasant tasting and potent oil, containing lots of extraneous oils. It's messy and time-consuming, but I learned a great deal. Then I came across a method using butane (erowid.com). When I thought really hard about this, I found that one can perform an extraction in about 30 minutes, from setup to completion. There is no large volume of 'undesirable' oil present, and like what was mentioned earlier in this thread, it is in the 90% THC range. When I dreamt of this method, I was using one-year-old-stored-in-a-paperbag-in-the-basement leaf material. The resulting oil was, as mentioned earlier in this thread, incapacitating. I dreamt of smoking it in the Badlands of South Dakota, and found great difficulty in walking the 5 feet or so to my tent. Acetylating this product or even isomerizing it is almost pointless, as the effect is so powerful. But I shall dream of it nevertheless. The only drawback I see is the evapourating butane and it's effect on the environment. One cannot simply collect it and reuse it. Obvious advantages are low solvent amounts (liters are not required), speed and ease, and powerful amotivational syndrome-producing material. This MUST be done outdoors, away (far, far away) from sources of ignition. Hope this helps.

[Edited on 4-8-2005 by prole]

neutrino - 4-8-2005 at 09:52

The evaporating butane could simply be burned off, leaving harmless water + CO<sub>2</sub>.

daeron - 4-8-2005 at 11:04

dont forget that often butane/propane contains also mercaptans,disulphides and other very tasty S compounds....but butane/propane extr is the easiest extr,and has very good yields.it is also a idiots sure way to death

epck - 4-8-2005 at 11:21

Hmmm...I know they add methyl mercaptan to propane and natural gas to make leaks easily detectable by smell. However, I thought butane was mostly used as lighter fluid, in Zippos and such. I would think that with a decent purity butane you would not have to worry about significant contamination of Sulfur containing compounds.

That being said I remember reading this experience report off of Erowid were a guy had health problems from using impure butane to produce his hash oil. Aaah, the dangers of OTC solvents.

daeron - 4-8-2005 at 11:46

90% of butane,propane or lpg comes out of primary distillation and cracker units of oil refineries,often before the hydrofining units(the ones that remove the S compounds) so yes there are a lot of S compounds in those gasses(a lot is a couple of hundred ppms,btw)

12AX7 - 4-8-2005 at 12:38

Sulfur compounds are pretty stinky too, last time I sniffed an outgassing lighter (not lit

) it was only a faint solvent smell. That's got to be at least <1ppm sulfur, no?

Tim

High purity butane

UpNatom - 4-8-2005 at 13:38

Some brands have impurities and some don't. Here is an excellent thread on the subject: http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/1700 which includes a list of the best brands to use.

Butane impurities damage turbo/jet lighters so some manufacturers go out of their way to highlight their brand as ultrapure. Here is one such and another list of brands to look out for:
http://www.keen-newport.com/ourBenchmark.htm

If you are in the UK, look around for Sanmex which I get from a local £-shop. 300mls/£1 can't be bad and its high purity.

In UK, remember hash/herbal=class C, Oil=class A!

superman - 30-8-2005 at 20:35

"Acetone works well too, its just that it extracts everything"

that's why you just rinse the plant meterial. use a metal strainer and two big bowls of solvent, pouring from one bowl over the meterial and into the other bowl.

Taaie-Neuskoek - 31-8-2005 at 01:41

THC does not only excist in its free form in the plant, but also as its glycoside! This glycoside however, is unstable, and will decompose into TCH and the rest above ~160°C. THC itself has a very boiling point, making it for researchers very difficult to actually measure how much someone actually inhales. A guy on a former trainee was busy with that kind of research, and they found that when cannabis was smoked by a glass pipe, afterward most of the THC was still in the pipe, because in condensed instantly again. They also doubted hoe much was taken up by the lungs, or that the effect is mainly due to uptake by mouth.

This is also how they found out about the glycoside, the amounts of THC recovered from other experiments was higher then they found in the original plant material...

Funny though, here (in The Netherlands) it is only allowed to have fields of cannabis (for rope production etc) which have less than 0.5% free THC in their tops, but there is nothing written about the glycoside...

.
Any plant biotechnologists with a bit of spare time here??

trilobite - 31-8-2005 at 13:54

That's interesting, I didn't know of the glycoside. Do you know how big a portion does it make compared to THC? Depends on the part of the plant, of course.

By the way, it appears that the low amounts of THC in those strains results from suppression of the conversion of CBD to THC in the plant, so there should be little of the glycoside as well. On the other hand isomerization should do just fine with the CBD, giving the delta-8 isomer.

crankyperson - 19-1-2006 at 13:11

hi,
thank god for this thread.
few days ago i made a very unnormal notice.
i put 3 grams of pot into a 50 ml flask and extracted with butane.
i filtered (didn't need an icebad, the temperature in my lab was - 10 °C), and tilted the liquid butane into a nickelpan. i let it vaporize at the air (the next day temperature climb at 3°C)
now the notice: there was no oil,just a solid with a very high viscosity (hope you understand what i mean.it is like glue.....).
and now i wonder what this solid is.
of course i smoked that solid,and it was very good,so i think the THCpart in it is very high....

neutrino - 19-1-2006 at 14:35

The low temperature probably increased the oil's viscosity and formed your 'solid'. It's a well known fact of chemical processing: hot liquids are generally less viscous than colder ones.

jon - 19-1-2006 at 20:39

Hexane is even better than butane it gets a pure cut of the cannabonoids you go down to office max I saw it somewhere there in pure form. butane is tricky to work with the way I used to do is solvate all the crude thc in ethanol and evaporate onto silica, sand, or salt to give surface area then put into as coke bottle thread with teflon tape for the seal then freeze or cool some butane in the freezer and pour the cooled butane into the bottle with the mixture and shake the hell out of it, then settle the butane off then cool the bottle and pour it onto a pyrex dish. this shit tasted like hydro and would make you hallucinate. very good stuff it was a blackis green oil.

Morgan - 20-8-2016 at 10:26

As it goes along they talk about an entourage effect.
The Scientist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csbJnBKqwIw#t=1m37s

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Morgan]

clearly_not_atara - 23-8-2016 at 21:59

If you want something absurdly pure, you could extract with chloroform and then extract that solution with arginine in water at 0 C. Arginine is a weak base but it'll deprotonate any carboxylic acid and it isn't as reactive as NaOH. Boiling that solution and then extracting with diethyl ether/ethyl acetate/MEK/CHCl3 (pick one) should give nearly 100% cannabinoids with no caryophyllenes or other oils.

EDIT: s/ascorbate/arginine/g. If you don't have arginine, pyrrolidine or guanidine should work.

[Edited on 24-8-2016 by clearly_not_atara]

hissingnoise - 24-8-2016 at 00:49

Quote:

If you want something absurdly pure, you could extract with chloroform

Absurdly pure what, atara ─ cannabis resin is a complex mixture of compounds and pure THC itself is not desirable as an intoxicant?

clearly_not_atara - 24-8-2016 at 06:47

To be specific, I tried to describe a way to get only carboxylic acids without any other terpenoids, and to do so in a way that wouldn't destroy them during extraction.

hissingnoise - 24-8-2016 at 11:58

As acids, the compounds are non-psychoactive and are decarboxylated during curing so that in the dry material they exist predominantly as phenols!

But the "entourage effect" which the high essentially consists of means the inclusion of all of the resinous compounds along with all of the terpenes present.

violet sin - 24-8-2016 at 18:33

Morgan, thanks

I just got done watching the doccumentary. up till just after 2am last night and had to finish after work today. It was pretty interesting to see such an intelligent man, bringing in expert after expert to tell their part of the tale. the part about children getting a sub active dose( mentally) to treat cancer therapy side effects, and it's not in use today = INSANE. well practically all of it, is silly, cure for many diseases that can put you in jail. bullies with money want more... I won't drift off into into anything derailing, fear not.

would be pretty interesting to try a synthetic endogenous version(s) dose after a hard weeks work in construction. even better would be a rotating mix of the substances, in sub active quantities, given daily for a year or more. nature is about finesse, little tap at just the right time, not big hammer style. so smoking a large amount daily probably has limited benefit. whereas the small tap for a long time may be much more effective at keeping you at a point where you DON"T have to see the Doc. on a regular basis.

Don't mind people getting the after hours buzz on, but who wants to share the road with a million lit candles( potheads). I know I don't like to work under the influence of anything other than food, water and good sleep( & LOTS of caffeine, but not good for ya). so a sub active amount for daily aches and pains would be great; then have your night-cap (if any) after being done with out of house chores. would mean fellers like me could feel better with a clear head and no jail threat. 8x 200mg ibuprofen daily isn't exactly healthy, but it does keep me thinking sharp all day and productive.

Alice - 25-8-2016 at 05:53

I don't know anything about extraction, but regarding decarboxylation the following might be interesting:

"Decarboxylation of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol: Kinetics and molecular modeling"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251476768_Decarboxy...

There are mechanisms proposed utilizing formic acid via a direct and an indirect keto-enol pathway. The authors suggest this to happen naturally in cannabis plants having some formic acid content.

[Edited on 25-8-2016 by Alice]

hissingnoise - 25-8-2016 at 07:52

Alice talking about cannabis ─ how apt?

I've been growing the "Devil Weed with Roots in Hell" on and off since 1975 and I don't know anything about extraction, either, nor do I want to know anything about it!

The trick, I think, is to get the very best bud and smoke it in moderation.

Unfortunately the best bud comes from equatorial sativa landraces that are difficult to grow, produce paltry yields and can have flowering periods indoors of up to six months!

The mature buds don't stink to high heaven (yay) like skunk, they don't try to rip your throat out and won't render you couchlocked!

They produce a high that is some kind of magic!

That said, I'm about due another T break...

PHILOU Zrealone - 25-8-2016 at 08:36

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

Alice talking about cannabis ─ how apt?
...

They produce a high that is some kind of magic!
That said, I'm about due another T break...

Alice in Wonderland

Just kidding - LOL

Tea break with the Mad Hatter

[Edited on 25-8-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Alice - 25-8-2016 at 09:49

What's so special about my name? Are we in kindergarten?

PHILOU Zrealone - 25-8-2016 at 10:08

Quote: Originally posted by Alice

What's so special about my name? Are we in kindergarten?

Nothing! Pretty usual forename...even inspiring for poetry or rap "Alice is nice and cooler than ice"

Also the name of a propellant Al-ICE (Aluminium nanopowder and solid water (ice)).

Humor and smiling keeps people young...live with that

Alice - 25-8-2016 at 10:37

LOL

hissingnoise - 26-8-2016 at 06:29

Quote:

Tea break with the Mad Hatter

Lol! It's what we tokers call a "tolerance break" PHILOU!

But I'm not exactly in a rush...if you get my drift?

zed - 15-9-2016 at 14:24

Well, I'm a Diet Coke man myself. But, for those that enjoy, and have questions about the Wacky Tabacky. Locally, the stuff is 100% legal, and information abounds. Albeit, that information is provided in the form of advertising; so caveat emptor.

In fact, were I so inclined, I could probably get a job instantly with one of the local manufacturers. Any competent chemist has become a one eyed man, in a kingdom of the blind.

For the sake of those world-wide, who felt trepidation about the legalization of pot......It arrived a lot like the millennium. Basically, silence.
Nothing changed.

[Edited on 15-9-2016 by zed]

Thump - 1-1-2017 at 17:18

Hello everyone thc extraction is quit easy depending on the material a desirable blond color translucent is desired depending one the materialthe older the browner if pesticides are sprayed tord the end of the flowering cycle of the plants life will change the color. Unfortunately we dont know as the flower or trim is passed down, ok mystery oil cans. Are processed the metal is coated in oil sobit doesntdo rust in processing the oil stays within the can. Easy fix in a clossed loop stainless steel system all n tane or butain is dirty. Running it dry threw your extraction system without plant material heat the steal vessel so you can evaporate the butain out of the vessel into another using hot and cold the butain will follow the cold evaporating and leaving behind mystery oil bytonight the way all butain is dirty dont care what the lable seas! Try it i have tried them all.. the next step is short path fractional distillation thats why im hear but i am out of my league.. Thats y im hear!

Chemetix - 2-1-2017 at 04:33

Once upon a time in a land far away...sorry to start like this, but I live a country of thou shalt not; somebody think of the children. Someone once ran an IPA extract of kiff down a calcined alumina column using long wavelength UV to guide them as to when they should split the fractions. They then blended the fractions based on the ratio of CBD to THC they wanted, to produce the desired artisanal blend for the most aesthetic purposes.

God I hate talking like this....

[Edited on 2-1-2017 by Chemetix]

Tsjerk - 2-1-2017 at 07:12

I like it Chemetix, at least I can follow it.

psychοtic - 5-1-2017 at 03:28

Interesting this thread popping up seeing as I was just thinking on the matter myself, particularly on further purification of the crude extract — BTW if one chooses chloroform here so as to avoid possible stinkants of butane, anyone has suggestions to get rid of it other than distillation?

It would be interesting if Chemetix could provide more details on that separation with chromatography — I am thinking that it is expected that one fills in the blanks on their own here though unfortunately I am a noob. Particularly about the UV-B thing. The most relevant thing I could find concerning that was a brief mention in Wikipedia that THC absorbs UV-B light though I don't know what to make of that, and googling of "THC UV-B" seems to give only, and plenty of, results concerning the exposure of Cannabis plants to UV light to increase THC content.

Also I would be interested in that "converting inactive cannabinoids to THC by treatment with acid" claim. There are dozens of cannabinoids and all of them get turned to THC simple as that? Apparently this indeed is the case with CBD, so perhaps THC and CBD together amount to pretty much all of the cannabinoid content in the plant and this was what was meant. Oh and the mechanism here would be an intramolecular hydration of alkene with water and acid right? — protonation of the primary carbon in that terminal double bond there forming a carbonation which is then attacked by that extra alcohol.

Tsjerk - 5-1-2017 at 03:41

Chemetix is talking about (HP)LC, UV absorption is a standard method for detecting organics coming of the column. Probably out of reach of most amateurs, but you could run a silica column and detect the product via TLC. You do need standards to determine what is in the fraction coming of the column though.

[Edited on 5-1-2017 by Tsjerk]

psychοtic - 5-1-2017 at 03:58

I see. I think then I could run some TLC's on the extract with different solvent systems until I find one that separates the cannabinoids nicely, then do the math and run it in a column, bioassay the fractions to tell who's who.

Chemetix - 5-1-2017 at 04:53

Just a bog standard chromatography column with a glass frit and a tap on the bottom, blacklight makes the bands stand out. Make a slurry with IPA and alumina and run the column normal phase. If you want to be higher resolution then a graded elution with acetonitrile- water might help you. But is this an analytical technique you are after or something you might call food grade?
You won't be able to tell much by eye except two or three bands, the fronts the THC and the tails the CBDs, one is a greenish yellow under UV the other a more blueish colour. Chlorophylls and other large molecular mass stuff pretty much sit on the top of the column and don't move. The other terpinoids elute pretty much invisibly and you won't get any practical separation with this method.

[Edited on 5-1-2017 by Chemetix]

diphenylmorpholine - 8-1-2017 at 13:55

The truth for all your cientific pot heads, that the medicinal value of Cannabis relies, not in THC alone but i think in an harmonly, well configurated, evenly distribuated Cannabinoide mixture, this is what medicine wants and needs, till we realize that there is no other like it, no dronabinol or marinol will be able to do that.
The jamaikan or rasta must now that ? What i want to say, there is a reason.

An good, critical fluid extraction will be enough, butane but with some thinking one could uso CO2, a lot cheaper and will not blow your brains out if some goes wrong. You newer now, thinks Happen in a second.
CO2 is green, hello planet, hello cannabis.

alking - 10-1-2017 at 18:09

Why would CO2 not blow your brains out? A super critical system is under a LOT more pressure than a tube of butane or however people do it. CO2 might not be flammable the damage done is way way worse. Unless you're doing your butane extractions over a gas stove or something there's no risk of it igniting anyway, explosion or not.

Bert - 10-1-2017 at 18:40

Quote:

Unless you're doing your butane extractions over a gas stove or something there's no risk of it igniting anyway

Um, no.

Butane vapors are heavier than air, just like propane, gasoline, etc. They will creep along the floor and concentrate in low areas, perhaps even flow down your basement stairway looking for an ignition source. Which can be anything from static sparks to a non TEFC appliance motor, gas appliance pilot flame, electric light switch or whatever. Do ya feel LUCKY?

Explosive/ignitable concentration range for butane IS quite a bit narrower (1.8-8.4% by volume) than some other god awful things stoners have used over the years to extract the goodies from canabis, in particular diethyl ether... But it exists, and you can find it by accident if you carelessly (stoned?) handle enough of it, often enough. Hell, it is wider than GASOLINE'S flammable range.

http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-169/iss...

I knew someone (dead now) who 40 odd years back survived burning down a house while trying to use a purloined jug of pharmaceutical grade diethyl ether for this process. He turned on a light switch in his "lab", saw a little bitty flame jump out of the switch box- and a few seconds later it was over, except for a very unpleasant burn ward visit, some skin grafts and a lot of legal issues.

Smoking is bad for your health, m'kay?

[Edited on 11-1-2017 by Bert]

Corrosive Joeseph - 18-1-2017 at 16:01

Came across these lately and thought I'd drop them here..................

https://www.google.com/patents/US20020086438

and

Attachment: Cannabis Oil - Chemical Evaluation.pdf (761kB)
This file has been downloaded 441 times

/CJ