Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Readily Available Chemicals Website: Version 2

Readily Available Chemicals Website: Version 2

Pages: 1 2 3

I am a fish - 19-1-2005 at 05:00

I've massively updated my Readily Available Chemicals website.

I have abandoned the table based format in favour of a far less restrictive layout, which enables me to add more information. I have also listed appropriate suppliers with each chemical (rather than having a separate page listing all suppliers). Last but not least, I have added many new chemicals to the list

There are almost certainly some mistakes in the list, and I would appreciate them being pointed out. Comments, further information and constructive criticism are all welcome.

[Edited on 19-1-2005 by I am a fish]

cyclonite4 - 19-1-2005 at 06:30

Wow, thats great. I lfind the layout alot simpler and easier to interpret.

Also like the way you have a section for organic and inorganic chemicals.

Good job.

sparkgap - 19-1-2005 at 07:59

Might be only an oversight, but I don't see "Dry Ice" under the carbon dioxide listing. I don't know about availability in Europe, but it can easily be bought here in Asia.

sparky

LeonardNimoy - 19-1-2005 at 11:27

Listing specific sources by name is damn stupid and irresponsible. Things are hard enough as it is without idiots drawing attention to these things.

I am a fish - 19-1-2005 at 12:25

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonardNimoy
Listing specific sources by name is damn stupid and irresponsible. Things are hard enough as it is without idiots drawing attention to these things.

It depends on what you mean by "these things". As your only other contributions to this forum have concerned the synthesis of a mescaline precursor, it is pretty obvious what your real problem is.

The list is intended to help amateur chemists. I couldn't care less about the opinions of drug makers. If a supplier starts monitoring its customers, that's not my problem, as I have nothing to hide.

Quote:

Might be only an oversight, but I don't see "Dry Ice" under the carbon dioxide listing. I don't know about availability in Europe, but it can easily be bought here in Asia.

Thanks. Who sells it and what is it sold for?

Looks great

Joeychemist - 19-1-2005 at 12:31

Thanks Mr. I am a fish, I, and I’m sure most other members are very appreciative for the time and effort you put into you’re list. Sure there are a few mindless morons who cannot appreciate your list for what it is but hey, *fuck em*!
I for one am overly-joyed that you have updated you’re list, please keep up the great work. Your work does not go un-noticed or un-appreciated. Thanks.:

fatkangaroo - 19-1-2005 at 13:06

I will second that. Great job! Being a total novice I didnt even know about most of the chemicals listed. I especially like the way you have the OTC name of the product and the chemical formula, very helpful. Downloaded it straight away and burned it to disk. Dont ever want to lose it. Cheers.

The_Davster - 19-1-2005 at 13:18

Great site

In regards to dry ice, "Air liquide" sells it, they are an international company with stores open to the public in most cities. The outlet in my city has a big sign outside stating "We have dry ice"

I have not went there yet. I do not know what it is sold for, but putting it in drinks for the spooky effect may be an accepted excuse.

[Edited on 19-1-2005 by rogue chemist]

Quantum - 19-1-2005 at 13:45

Hehe I use your list all the time - thanks for updating it!

As for the wanna - bee

Chill out! Hes not listing your skeachy Sch 2 suppliers just regular chem companies and OTC stores

FrankRizzo - 19-1-2005 at 14:53

People usually use it for flash-freezing fish while they're still out on the water while fishing. Also, it'll keep the contents of your refridgerator from spoiling if you have a power outage.

LeonardNimoy - 19-1-2005 at 17:40

Quote:

Your post displays both sanctimony and invalid deduction. Perhaps if you were a little more thoughtful and a little less self-righteous, you might appear more measured. Knowing how to do something is not the same as doing it.

It is not matter of surveillance, it is a matter of named sources drying up. If so-and-so starts getting scores of spotty herberts ordering nitric acid or solvents, there is a good chance they will stop stocking the item due to fears of misuse. That is why specific outlets should not be named.

[Edited on 20-1-2005 by LeonardNimoy]

chemoleo - 19-1-2005 at 18:01

It isn't particularly measured to say that 'Listing specific sources by name is damn stupid and irresponsible'.

You get what you ask for.

Anyway - I suggest you read the FAQ on his website, it debates this issue quite nicely. Furthermore, I also suggest you read the first thread on the 'Readily Available Chemicals' website. There has been plenty of discussion on this subject. Do you actually realise how much work he must have put into this?

I am a fish - could you please put up the orignial pages that just listed the suppliers?

[Edited on 20-1-2005 by chemoleo]

Out of appreciation and respect

chloric1 - 19-1-2005 at 18:14

"I am fish" That took some serious time and resources and I commend you on your effort. That is why, out of goodwill I would like to point out something. On many ceramic type inorganics you list "Clayartcenter" as the sole American source. That website has been down for at least a year and I do not think they are coming back. I have 2 ceramic links here in the us if you are interested. I hope to only help and I do not mean to be too critical. Just let me know if you want those links.

cyclonite4 - 19-1-2005 at 20:55

@LeonardNimoy: Your post displays both arrogance and ignorance. The list, as mentioned, was created (with much dedication by I am a fish) for amatuer hobbyists, not drug makers.

Based on your reputation here, I believe you have little grounds for criticism.

When it comes to things such as nitric acid, customers are usually under suspicion for ordering certain combinations of chemicals (for example, those who find it wise to buy bulk amounts of nitric acid and pentaerythritol at the same time). Are you aware that nitric acid has uses other than explosives?

Also mentioned by I am a fish, most of us have nothing to hide. We are not all clandestine drug makers. We are interested in chemistry in general, not just one area of it.

I am a fish has contributed greatly to the forum for generating this list, and he should be congratulated, not criticised.

Whats your problem?

I am a fish - 20-1-2005 at 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonardNimoy
Your post displays both sanctimony and invalid deduction. Perhaps if you were a little more thoughtful and a little less self-righteous, you might appear more measured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

I was merely following your example. If you don't like my "sanctimony", then you should reconsider your own posting style.

Quote:

Knowing how to do something is not the same as doing it.

I find it difficult to believe that someone would be so interested in the practical details of a drug synthesis, without planning to do it. Yes, some people are merely interested in the chemistry involved, but those people also post to other topics. Futhermore, you seem remarkably aggressive for someone who has nothing to hide.

Quote:

It is not matter of surveillance, it is a matter of named sources drying up. If so-and-so starts getting scores of spotty herberts ordering nitric acid or solvents, there is a good chance they will stop stocking the item due to fears of misuse. That is why specific outlets should not be named.

Plenty of the sources listed are well known, yet they remain available. Name one example of a source drying up as a consequence of amateur chemists using it.

I am a fish - 20-1-2005 at 03:16

Thankyou everyone for your comments.

Quote:

Originally posted by chloric1
On many ceramic type inorganics you list "Clayartcenter" as the sole American source. That website has been down for at least a year and I do not think they are coming back. I have 2 ceramic links here in the us if you are interested. I hope to only help and I do not mean to be too critical. Just let me know if you want those links.

Don't worry. I appreciate all valid criticism. I assumed that it was merely the website that had gone down. Has the whole company folded? I would be very interested in those links.

Quote:

Originally posted by chemoleo
could you please put up the orignial pages that just listed the suppliers?

Yes. However, it will need a bit of work (in order to add all the new companies).

chloric1 - 20-1-2005 at 09:20

OKEY DOkey

http://www.seattlepotterysupply.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv; US Pigment Corp.

OK I am not perfect at inserting links yet but the URL for the US Pigment is simply that name .com I tested the links and they work so enjoy and have a look! Want to buy selenium for $35 a pound!!?? Have a peek!

[Edited on 1/20/2005 by chloric1]

[Edited on 1/20/2005 by chloric1]

LeonardNimoy - 20-1-2005 at 11:33

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

Hypocrisy, yes, what of it?

Quote:

I was merely following your example. If you don't like my "sanctimony", then you should reconsider your own posting style.

But you were being sanctimonious, your argument does not follow.

Quote:

So every chemistry graduate is an [illegal] drug manufacturer? Again, your argument does not follow.

Quote:

Futhermore, you seem remarkably aggressive for someone who has nothing to hide.

If I had something to hide, would that make me aggresive? Am I in fact aggressive? If I didn't have something to hide, would I not be aggressive? In fact, what am I supposed to have to hide? Your argument is absurd.

Quote:

Plenty of the sources listed are well known, yet they remain available.

Expressly linking to particular outlets and web addresses from the url hyperdeath, listing readily available chemicals is going to draw attention to the practice. This is what I stated, not the remainder of the information. The current climate is litigious and paranoid about drugs and explosives. You threaten the availability of these sources by doing so.

Quote:

Name one example of a source drying up as a consequence of amateur chemists using it.

As you should know, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

Forgive me for rattling your cage. Your fellow jam jar and turkey baster enthusiasts have leapt to your defense. However, despite all the histrionics and flying spittle, you have ignored the original point, that in an attempt to gain adulation from the foot lickers, you are damaging sources.

chemoleo - 20-1-2005 at 11:49

Whoa easy there.
Adulation - do you think he needs that? Wtf? What kind of world do you live in, where you do things for 'adulation'?
Rather than being a cynic, you could equally just regard the compliments as genuine, and most probably are. Not much is gained here by 'footlicking' I believe.

Anyway, your view is that 'sources' might get damaged by compiling them into a list. Others view is that those sources are not compromised (as these are no secret), and i should think only very rarely sources could possibly be compromised.
Drawing attention to these things- do you honestly think, some authorties are NOT aware of the HiVe, this forum, or E&W, and then suddenly snap into action when they discover the link list, and start banning lots of chemicals? Don't you think the people who determine which chems are to be banned from the general public are professionals who know the use or abuse of those chems on those linked sites anyway? What, and listing this openly suddenly causes them to ban everything, from H2SO4 for batteries, pool chlorinators, paint strippers, pottery pigments, photographic chemicals, and so on, just because some people may become more aware of their relative ease of availability? Comon. It would have happened long since if this had been the case.

Please, indulge me on a scenario, how the listing of sources would cause them to dry up.

[Edited on 20-1-2005 by chemoleo]

I am a fish - 20-1-2005 at 13:39

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonardNimoy
Hypocrisy, yes, what of it? ... But you were being sanctimonious, your argument does not follow.

Your original post was dripping with sanctimony. Therefore it's hypocritical to complain about me being sanctimonious.

Quote:

So every chemistry graduate is an [illegal] drug manufacturer? Again, your argument does not follow.

I never said that. Attack what I say rather than beating a strawman.

Quote:

You are being exceedingly agressive. The word has a wider scope than the starting of fights in bars. Since you have nothing to hide, you could explain your so far exclusive interest in drugs making.

Quote:

Again, please provide evidence. Many companies are frequently discussed on the forum and yet they remain open for business. If my site is such a threat, then surely the forum itself must have caused significant damage. Please give me an example of this damage.

Quote:

As you should know, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

That is perfectly true. However it is applicable to virtually anything. If I was to say that there was a teapot in orbit around Pluto (to borrow an analogy from Richard Dawkins), you would rightly ask for evidence. It would be absurd of me to protect my statement by saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". It would be true, but it ignores the fact that disproving the statement is essentially impossible. It is a basic logical rule that the burden of proof lies with the person making the positive proposition. Which of the following is (in principle) easier?

1. Finding a single example of a chemical source drying up due to amateur chemists using it.

2. Researching each and every company in recent global history and demonstrating that they have not stopped selling chemicals due to the custom of amateur chemists.

Your proposition is effectively impossible to disprove. Without supporting evidence it is worthless.

Quote:

Forgive me for rattling your cage. Your fellow jam jar and turkey baster enthusiasts have leapt to your defense. However, despite all the histrionics and flying spittle, you have ignored the original point, that in an attempt to gain adulation from the foot lickers, you are damaging sources

Yet I'm the sanctimonious one...

Provide evidence that I am damaging sources and you'll have a valid point.

[Edited on 20-1-2005 by I am a fish]

cyclonite4 - 21-1-2005 at 03:58

From my perceptive, LeonardNimoy is trying to compensate intelligence with argumentivity. It's not a case of I am a fish destroying sources, it's a case of LeonardNimoy destroying his reputation here (If it isn't considered destroyed already).

Quote:

I believe your losing your welcome here as fast as your exposing your arrogance. Is there a point to your argument, or are you simply looking for an excuse for one?

Astrum - 21-1-2005 at 08:03

The fact of the matter still remains that 90% of the chemicals on his website are very common. Just because his website lists the sources doesn't mean they will stop selling it. To do so would be ludicrous. There are chemicals that you should never post a source to if you find one. However, I feel this list doesn't cross that line in any way.

Contrary to what the government wants you to believe not all individual chemists are involved in illegal activities. Not everyone who has a computer is a black hat hacker even though they all have the tools to be one. When the government becomes so draconian that they impede my persuit of knowledge, in any academic field, and brainwash the general public to believe this mantra then it's time to fight back. This list is simply a tool to combat the oppressive nature of the world we live in today.

If you don't like the list then don't use it. If your sources are on that list and you are inclinded to do so then find new sources.

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by Astrum]

sparkgap - 21-1-2005 at 08:42

Guess I have little to add about "Dry Ice", except that some ice shops sell it to ice cream makers here, and that SFX suppliers for discos sell it too, for the smoky/hazy effect you sometimes see at rave parties. Mind you, though, it ain't cheap.

Hate to jump into the fray, but it would be absurd for a government agency to ban all available chemicals if only for the fact that they can be abused. Time to complain if things come to that.

I don't think the companies would mind the free advertising, either...

sparky

P.S. to Chris/I am a fish: I haven't read your list in full, so a critique from me might be delayed. Keep it up, though. Not everyone takes the time to help his fellow amateurs.

P.P.S. I usually get my Dry Ice, though, from a friend of mine who sells ice cream. At the end of a typical business day, he gives me substantially useful chunks of the stuff whenever I ask for it. It really helps to have rapport with a lot of people.

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by sparkgap]

Chris The Great - 27-1-2005 at 09:25

Great list! I didn't know this existed before, so I'm extra happy.

I also thought I'd contribute a small bit with some experience I've had buying chems.

Just one little note: for isopropyl alcohol, it is not mentioned that it can be bought, 99% pure at your local pharmacy. Same with 95% ehtanol. It's a tad expensive though. The ethanol really isn't worth buying as it's reall expensive but I haven't seen isopropyl sold anwhere else.

Methanol is sold in 4L containers at my loal home depot at 99.9% purity (or so the label claims) as 'methyl hydrate'. It's used as a solvent or a camping stove fuel.

I am a fish - 27-1-2005 at 10:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris The Great
Same with 95% ehtanol. It's a tad expensive though. The ethanol really isn't worth buying as it's reall expensive...

Do you know what the other 5% is? If it is methanol (or another denaturant), you're right in saying that it's bad value. However, if the remainder is water, it will be subject to liquor duty. If so, it may not be bad value for what it is.

Esplosivo - 27-1-2005 at 12:42

The remainder should be water, if the ethanol is sold at a pharmacy. Methanol metabolism can have some nasty effects on the body if you know what I mean

I used to buy such ethanol but nowadays I buy it from suppliers, far cheaper heh. 'Surgical spirit' as it is known here is a mixture of ethanol and water, with approx. 95% ethanol as stated.

Chemical lists

MadHatter - 27-1-2005 at 17:11

I Am A Fish, thank you for your very informative and comprehensive list of chemical
suppliers. Chloric1, the ceramics suppliers you listed have more compounds than
the local supplier - very impressive !

LeonardNimoy, get a fucking clue ! The majority of those chemicals have so many
uses that banning them would have a serious economic impact on many industries.

couldn't resist

S.C. Wack - 27-1-2005 at 19:40

Quote:

The majority of those chemicals have so many uses that banning them would have a serious economic impact on many industries.

Do you mean chemicals such as methylamine, acetic anhydride, red P, P2O5, any other useful P cpd, LAH, pyridine, nitroethane, benzyl chloride, formamide, and thionyl chloride?

Chemicals are not banned for industries, they apply for licenses. Chemicals end up banned for sale to individuals, and this is the problem. Or the gov't threatens well-known distributors, such as Firefox. P2O5 isn't on any list, yet no one sells it to individuals AFAIK. I think that there are good reasons why few companies sell many useful chems to people, even unlisted ones that don't have shipping problems. It wouldn't surprise me if few suppliers would continue to sell chemicals to companies known to resell to individuals.

Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives. List 2 chemicals will continue to be upgraded to list 1. With talk about meth manufacturers and terrorists, no one is going to hesitate to further restrict sales of any chemical to individuals, if LE decided to press the issue. Really, how much of an outcry do you think there would be if single-ingredient acetone was suddenly banned? HCl and toluene are disappearing, store by store, around here. No law against them, just people thinking that they are doing the right thing.

Personally, I think that it is best for everyone involved to stay as low-profile as possible, you know, the nail sticking out and the squeaky wheel thing.

Chris The Great - 27-1-2005 at 20:55

Should be ethanol + water, although I can't find any MSDS info and it says "for external use only".

However, it says on the bottle that the sole ingredient is "ethanol anhydrous 95% v/v" so I would take that to mean it is only ethanol.

cyclonite4 - 27-1-2005 at 22:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris The GreatJust one little note: for isopropyl alcohol, it is not mentioned that it can be bought, 99% pure at your local pharmacy.

I've found isopropanol fairly cheap and readily available at hardware stores and electronics suppliers (also goes by names such as "cleaning alcohol" and is the same as video cleaning fluid). The hardware store sells it 100% pure apparently, and 95% at a local electronics supplier.

Esplosivo - 28-1-2005 at 07:49

About the 'Surgical spirit', I think it contains some propan-2-ol though I am not completely sure. This would probably make the ethanol 'duty-free' since the mixture is probably undrinkable. Must check this out though. I'm fairly sure that if propanol is added it is in low concentrations.

UpNatom - 28-1-2005 at 12:55

I've also seen surgical spirit from the pharmacists with wintergreen or something in it (and possibly other denaturants) which gave it a weird 'medicated' smell like muscular heat-rub or something. It can be distilled though. The undyed methylated spirit from the chemist (UK) is called IMS -industrial methylated spirits- and it does have methanol and some water in (min. 90% EtOH).

Edit: every chemist will sell 'rubbing alcohol' (thats probably the best way to ask for it too

) which is min. 70% IPA and water.

[Edited on 28-1-2005 by UpNatom]

I am a fish - 29-1-2005 at 03:28

Quote:

Originally posted by S.C. Wack
Do you mean chemicals such as methylamine, acetic anhydride, red P, P2O5, any other useful P cpd, LAH, pyridine, nitroethane, benzyl chloride, formamide, and thionyl chloride?

Are those chemicals actually banned, or are they merely watched? A lot of "suspicious" chemicals are readily available (in particular, solvents). It could be that the chemicals you list have no practical application outside of the lab.

Quote:

Chemicals are not banned for industries, they apply for licenses. Chemicals end up banned for sale to individuals, and this is the problem. Or the gov't threatens well-known distributors, such as Firefox. P2O5 isn't on any list, yet no one sells it to individuals AFAIK. I think that there are good reasons why few companies sell many useful chems to people, even unlisted ones that don't have shipping problems. It wouldn't surprise me if few suppliers would continue to sell chemicals to companies known to resell to individuals.

There are other plausible reasons why companies may not sell to private individuals. (I am not saying they're true, only that they're possible.)

1. They may be trying to insulate themselves against unprofitable small orders.

2. It may be overly complicated to differentiate between chemicals that can be safely handled by a careful amateur and those requiring specialist equipment. Professional chemists would (I hope) only order chemicals they have the facilities to handle, whilst amateur chemists can't necessarily be relied upon. For example, if a home experimenter was to buy a cylinder of fluorine, the supplier would probably be held responsible for the consequences.

3. They may simply have no experience of selling to private individuals and expect company information as a matter of routine.

Quote:

Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives. List 2 chemicals will continue to be upgraded to list 1. With talk about meth manufacturers and terrorists, no one is going to hesitate to further restrict sales of any chemical to individuals, if LE decided to press the issue. Really, how much of an outcry do you think there would be if single-ingredient acetone was suddenly banned? HCl and toluene are disappearing, store by store, around here. No law against them, just people thinking that they are doing the right thing.

Pure chemicals may be disappearing, but is that a matter of supply or demand? I expect many people would prefer to buy a mixture sold for a particular function, than some chemical they've never heard of.

I expect the banning of many chemicals would greatly inconvenience lot of people. For example, whilst many DIY enthusiasts would barely notice the loss of acetone, many professionals and serious amateurs would rue the loss of a powerful and fast drying solvent.

The same goes for fertilisers. Whilst most gardeners want mixed fertiliser (for the sake of convenience), serious gardeners and smallholders will want something specific to their needs. For example, if land suffers only from a nitrogen deficiency, a serious gardener will want to buy urea or ammonium nitrate, rather than wasting money on an unsuitable mixture.

Swimming pool owners will always need chlorinating agents. Potters and serious artists will always need a wide range of pigments. Brewers will always need sterilisers, additives and nutrients. The chemicals in all of these examples could conceivably be diluted. However, swimming pool chemicals are bulky enough as it is, potters want to attain colours that would be impossible without pure colourants and brewers don't want to add unnecessary ingredients to their drinks.

It would be impossible to ban all pure chemicals without infuriating vast numbers of people. Some people would tolerate such bans if brought an end to drug crime and terrorism, but that's never going to happen.

Acetone

chloric1 - 29-1-2005 at 08:53

Not so sure I agree what you say about acetone disappearing would be unnoticed. I remember in 2002 Wal-mart, at least in this area, put a 3 gallon limit on Acetone purchase. Later the signs where removed and I bet some griping wa the cause of this. This stuff is used in fiberglass work especially marine related along with MEK. Other solvents or mixtures thereof may lack the potentcy of ketones especially when working with spray paint,resins, and plastics. The aromatics on the otherhand...I know I can still buy toluene and Xylene at least at one source right off the top of my head maybe two. Also, the Internet helps to keep "specialty" markets alive.

If they do decide to ban acetone, then ours respective governments have outlived their usefullness anyways and it would be time for a major overhaul.

S.C. Wack - 29-1-2005 at 12:03

This government has little concern over what many small groups of people want or think. It might take testimony from groups, but that doesn't mean that it will sway them, no matter how rational, unless they have a lot of money.

Ammonium nitrate is not sold in nurseries here - except at co-ops to farmers whose faces are known. Orders of it by non-farmers have brought police with it. Theft of 100 pounds brings police and media hysteria. The home fertilizers here are now urea-based. Even the big landscaper supply companies here don't have any nitrate-based fertilizer, ammonium or otherwise, even though there are ammonium nitrate plants in the area. Pool chemicals could always be restricted to people in the business with licenses for handling them. There are alternatives to the widely used pool chemicals. Don't underestimate what can be done in the name of safety.

We are the people who are giving life sentences in prison to people stealing a single doughnut. No sentence for possessing 100 pseudoephedrine tablets is too extreme here. There really is a blank check as to what the justice system can get away with here.

Well, we'll just have to see, because I am talking about the slow creeping of many small regulations. Regulation whether in the name of drugs, explosives, the environment, or public safety. I'm talking about the gradual changes in attitude and education of the public, business practices, policies, and economic dynamics of industry over a long period of time eroding the practice of chemistry, not sudden mass actions. I never said anything about banning all chemicals. It would be more sensible to legislators to simply ban the practice of chemistry and purchase of glassware without a license, mail-order chemicals to individuals, and to require more record-keeping by retailers. There is already federal law on the books about distillation equipment, it just isn't enforced in non-alcohol situations. But of course there are states with their own glassware laws.

I am talking about the banning of useful chemicals. Something such as bisulfite, though useful, is not quite as useful as I am thinking of. H2SO4 is a good example. KOH has already been banned for consumer use, and an attempt was made to get H2SO4 to join it last year. I listed the chemicals that I did because they are good examples of what are not sold to individuals, but are used by the ton in industry - the point of my post was that Title 21 regulations have little end impact on industry, only people outside it. Since you don't know what chemicals are listed or watched in the US as drug-related, though this has been mentioned elsewhere on this site:

(a) List I chemicals
(1) Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
(2) Benzyl cyanide
(3) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(4) Ergonovine and its salts
(5) Ergotamine and its salts
(6) N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
(7) Norpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(8) Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its salts
(9) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(10) Piperidine and its salts
(11) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(12) 3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone
(13) Methylamine and its salts
(14) Ethylamine and its salts
(15) Propionic anhydride
(16) Isosafrole
(17) Safrole
(18) Piperonal
(19) N-Methylephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(20) N-Methylpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(21) Hydriodic Acid
(22) Benzaldehyde
(23) Nitroethane
(24) Gamma-Butyrolactone (Other names include: GBL; Dihydro-2 (3H)-furanone; 1,2-Butanolide; 1,4-Butanolide; 4-Hydroxybutanoic acid lactone; gamma-hydroxybutyric acid lactone)
(25) Red Phosphorus
(26) White phosphorus (Other names: Yellow Phosphorus)
(27) Hypophosphorous acid and its salts
(including ammonium hypophosphite, calcium hypophosphite, iron hypophosphite, potassium hypophosphite, manganese hypophosphite, magnesium hypophosphite, and sodium hypophosphite

(b) List II chemicals:
(1) Acetic anhydride
(2) Acetone
(3) Benzyl chloride
(4) Ethyl ether
(5) Potassium permanganate
(6) 2-Butanone (or Methyl Ethyl Ketone or MEK)
(7) Toluene
(8) Hydrochloric acid (including anhydrous hydrogen chloride)
(9) Sulfuric acid
(10) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK)
(11) Iodine

The Comprehensive Methamphetamine Control Act of 1996 (MCA) makes it unlawful for any person to distribute a laboratory supply to a person who uses, or attempts to use, that laboratory supply to manufacture a controlled substance or a listed chemical, with reckless disregard for the illegal uses to which such laboratory supply will be put. Individuals who violate this provision are subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000; businesses which violate this provision are subject to a civil penalty of not more than $250,000. The term "laboratory supply" is defined as "a listed chemical or any chemical, substance, or item on a special surveillance list published by the Attorney General, which contains chemicals, products, materials, or equipment used in the manufacture of controlled substances and listed chemicals."

Special Surveillance List
Chemicals

All listed chemicals as specified in 21 CFR § 1310.02 (a) or (b) or 21 U.S.C. § 802 (34) or (35). This includes all chemical mixtures and all over-the-counter (OTC) products and dietary supplements which contain a listed chemical, regardless of their dosage form or packaging and regardless of whether the chemical mixture, drug product or dietary supplement is exempt from regulatory controls.

Ammonia Gas
Ammonium Formate
Bromobenzene
1,1-Carbonyldiimidazole
Cyclohexanone
1,1-Dichloro-1-fluoroethane (e.g., Freon 141B)
Diethylamine and its salts
2,5-Dimethoxyphenethylamine and its salts
Formamide
Formic Acid
Hypophosphorous Acid
Lithium Metal
Lithium Aluminum Hydride
Magnesium Metal (Turnings)
Mercuric Chloride
N-Methylformamide
Organomagnesium Halides (Grignard Reagents) (e.g., ethylmagnesium bromide and phenyl-magnesium bromide)
Phenylethanolamine and its salts
Phosphorus Pentachloride
Potassium Dichromate
Pyridine and its salts
Red Phosphorus
Sodium Dichromate
Sodium Metal
Thionyl Chloride
ortho-Toluidine
Trichloromonofluoromethane (e.g., Freon-11, Carrene-2)
Trichlorotrifluoroethane (e.g., Freon 113)

Equipment
Hydrogenators
Tableting Machines
Encapsulating Machines
22 Liter Heating Mantels

I am a fish - 30-1-2005 at 06:14

The Land of the Free*

*Terms and conditions apply. Fair trials are only granted to those accused of criminal offences not subject to state and media hysteria. All defendants must pay for a defence lawyer (or be represented by an indifferent and incompetent court appointed lawyer). Probability of being arrested, prosecuted or convicted subject to race.

[Edited on 30-1-2005 by I am a fish]

Bioworld

chloric1 - 9-2-2005 at 03:55

Found a Website with Froogle this morning. Bio-World. There prices are high and they say antibiotics are forbiden to individuals. Would be a great source of chelating agents, quats, and surfactants though. They do have 500G of Sodium Azide for $55-$60 but I am quite apprehensive about this one. They are having a sale on high purity EDTA though for all you plating and chelating enthusiast!

CherrieBaby - 4-3-2005 at 13:10

I want to put my 2 cents worth in here.

The main reason why chemicals are becoming harder to get hold of has little to do with drug-making or terrorism.

Consider this. In the UK, the price of an ecstasy pill has now fallen to £4. 15 years ago it was £20. So all that precursor monitoring hasn't stopped the 'drug barons' doing what they do. Ecstasy is made from piperonyl acetone imported (into the Benelux region) from SE Asia on a huge scale. A premium is paid (doubling the cost) to the supplier so that the containers are mis-labelled. If the Dutch and Belgium cops can't stop this what chance have they of stopping some bathroom chemist or 'cook'?). The clamp-down on sassafras oil hasn't stopped the professional criminal expanding production to the point where they're practically giving it away.

There are, at most, a few hundred chemicals that are restricted or watched as precursors. That doesn't explain why a minor supplier wouldn't even post me a catalog until I'd given a good explanation of what I wanted to do with the chemicals in the catalog (chemicals which I hadn't tried to order!!).

The main factor here is safety consciousness - big companies are terrified of someone accusing them of unsafe practices; and there are some people who consider any chemical in any quantity to be unsafe (environmentalists).

It will be risk-consciousness in general (over health and environmental fears) that sees further restrictions on sales to individuals - not fears about terrorists nor drug-makers.

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by CherrieBaby]

mick - 4-3-2005 at 19:19

There are not many industrial suppliers of anything that will sell to an individual. You need to set up a corporate account, get an account number which will be billed for everything. Down stream supply companies do not usually accept cash, cheques or credit cards. Once you have an account number or customer number and an order number and a VAT/Tax number, everything usual goes straight through. All that stuff is usually sorted out between 2 accounting department with agreed automatic discounts, minimum charges etc and once supplied as agreed the buyer accepts all current and future responsibilty
Most chemicals that an individual buys have already been sold and repackaged a few times.
Anyway you can buy better kit for cooking now than than the average research chemist had a few years ago. I do not think you can ever say that no one will sort out a new/novel prep for anything, just depends on the necessity.

mick

Magpie - 4-3-2005 at 19:48

Yes the major chemical suppliers want to sell only to other companies with account numbers, etc. But I think this is due to government pressure, however misguided. It is a quick and easy way to cut off all the little guys like us. This really pisses me off as it implies that individuals break the law but big companies do not - and we all know that is a lie. It comes down to what they can do conveniently and with few complaints. You and I are not going to complain to our congressman about restricting supplies for our home lab.

I don't agree about being sued over misuse of chemicals. Everyone can buy all the gasoline and pesticides that they want, no questions asked. People can and do cause a lot of environmental damage and personal injuries with these items. But it would simply be too inconvenient to restrict them and there would be too many complaints from the public, so they don't.

Scratch- - 5-3-2005 at 20:53

Heres a few things I found at stores (I live in the US):

Copper foil - sold at hardware store as copper roof flashing
Tantalum strips - used in capacitors, easy to get in small amounts (No idea what it would be useful for)
Powdered graphite - used as a lubricant, sold at hardware stores
Americium buttons - used in smoke detectors (although I never actually extracted it)

Also a good site for finding some common elements is:
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/index.html

I hope this helps, I would really hate to see a nice hobby like chemistry go to waste because of lack of reagents.

Version 2.1

I am a fish - 15-4-2005 at 06:01

I have uploaded version 2.1 of "Readily Available Chemicals". Many new chemicals and suppliers have been added. I have also created a "List of All Suppliers" page.

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed information.

Quince - 18-4-2005 at 22:29

Quote:

Originally posted by chloric1
Found a Website with Froogle this morning. Bio-World. There prices are high and they say antibiotics are forbiden to individuals. Would be a great source of chelating agents, quats, and surfactants though. They do have 500G of Sodium Azide for $55-$60 but I am quite apprehensive about this one. They are having a sale on high purity EDTA though for all you plating and chelating enthusiast!

I assume I shouldn't have any problems importing sodium azide from the US into Canada?

zoomer - 4-5-2005 at 18:17

I am a fish,

Thank you for your efforts. I own neither a jam jar nor a turkey baster, but I am still able to make good use of your information for the students in my class.

I was helped here a little while ago on a search, I hope I can return a bit of what I learned in repayment:

- An interesting and regularly updated ceramics supply database is at http://digitalfire.ab.ca/cermat. (Apologies if this was mentioned before.)

- That website also has this note about products sold as plain ‘copper carbonate’:
“Copper carbonate is green powder and a useful source of copper oxide for staining bodies and glazes. Conceptually, copper carbonate is CuCO3, however this form is not normally available in the market (copper carbonate basic is the article of commerce) so the powder should be viewed as a family of compounds.”
The few sources I have tried are indeed green copper carbonate basic, aka the mineral malachite, aka Cu2(CO3)(OH)2, aka Copper(II) Carbonate Dihydroxide . In fact, I’ve not found any source for true CuCO3, and several people in this forum in other threads have suggested that CuCO3 may not exist in a normal environment. (This has been my limited experience in the US, other people may have better info, corrections welcome.)

- Kremer Pigments also sells powdered azurite (mineral), aka blue copper carbonate basic, aka Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2 (I don’t know the IUPAC name.) It’s highly refined, but may still contain natural impurities.

- Copper plumbing is made from very pure copper and is available at most hardware stores.

Edit: Forgot one -- Home Depot (USA) sells copper sulfate as root killer in the plumbing dept. BTW, what is a "water butt"?

Z

[Edited on 5-5-2005 by zoomer]

I am a fish - 8-5-2005 at 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by zoomer
I am a fish,

Thank you for your efforts. I own neither a jam jar nor a turkey baster, but I am still able to make good use of your information for the students in my class.

I was helped here a little while ago on a search, I hope I can return a bit of what I learned in repayment:

- An interesting and regularly updated ceramics supply database is at http://digitalfire.ab.ca/cermat. (Apologies if this was mentioned before.)

I've come across it before. However, I don't find it particularly useful, because it doesn't tell you where to buy the stuff from.

Quote:

- That website also has this note about products sold as plain ‘copper carbonate’:
“Copper carbonate is green powder and a useful source of copper oxide for staining bodies and glazes. Conceptually, copper carbonate is CuCO3, however this form is not normally available in the market (copper carbonate basic is the article of commerce) so the powder should be viewed as a family of compounds.”
The few sources I have tried are indeed green copper carbonate basic, aka the mineral malachite, aka Cu2(CO3)(OH)2, aka Copper(II) Carbonate Dihydroxide . In fact, I’ve not found any source for true CuCO3, and several people in this forum in other threads have suggested that CuCO3 may not exist in a normal environment. (This has been my limited experience in the US, other people may have better info, corrections welcome.)

Thanks. I knew that pottery suppliers aren't particularly good at giving chemically accurate descriptions of their products, but I didn't know that. I'll look into what they actually supply.

Quote:

- Kremer Pigments also sells powdered azurite (mineral), aka blue copper carbonate basic, aka Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2 (I don’t know the IUPAC name.) It’s highly refined, but may still contain natural impurities.

That's interesting – they sell "malachite" which is also basic copper carbonate. I looked them both up, and they vary only in the ratio of carbonate to hydroxide ions. Whilst azurite is Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2, malachite is Cu2(CO3)(OH)2

Quote:

- Copper plumbing is made from very pure copper and is available at most hardware stores.

I can't believe I missed that.

Quote:

Edit: Forgot one -- Home Depot (USA) sells copper sulfate as root killer in the plumbing dept. BTW, what is a "water butt"?

I've thought of adding high street retailers, but have decided against it, as it would be very difficult to search a shop for every chemical they sell (especially when I live thousands of miles away from the nearest branch). Having only a few chemicals listed would give the false impression that that's all they sell in the way of chemistry.

By the way, a water butt is a big outside tank used to store rainwater for use in gardening.

Thanks for your help,

I am a fish.

Pyridinium - 5-6-2005 at 11:03

S.C. Wack, I must respectfully disagree with:
"Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives."

That might be some regulator's naive dream, to make so many regulations that these things will stop.

But... They never will stop. Even in the most crushing sort of 1984-like state, there will still be people who continue to commit crime and flout the law. Meanwhile the ordinary person (i.e., most of us) is reduced to having no hobbies except constantly working to get through a gray, depressing existence, worrying the whole time he or she will step out of line in violation of some obscure law that is neither helpful nor just.

Big league criminals can do and get basically anything they want. Truckloads of chemicals are no exception.

Layer upon redundant layer of extra laws and regulations cannot stop criminals who just ignore, bribe, coerce, or influence their way around them.

Same old story with chems as it is for anything else. "We can't do anything about crime syndicates, but we can do something about you, because you're not really a threat. So let's focus on you."

DeAdFX - 17-9-2005 at 12:43

http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=686 a source of peg... This is cheaper than your current list.. 10LB @ 40usd compared to 1lb ~560usd

[Edited on 17-9-2005 by DeAdFX]

re: 95% EtOH

silonyl - 9-10-2005 at 21:48

ASSUMING THIS ISN"T DENATURED ALCOHOL
If what you have is 95% pufified ethanol, for lab use, you can be almost sure that the rematining 5% is H2O. EtOH and H2O form an azeotrope, and will distill across as one liquied.

100% EtOH on the otherhand has a third component added to break the azeotrope (I've heard benzene), so that 100% pure EtOH can be recovered.. There may be some conern over benzene in the distillate, though I think the concentration is somethiing like nanomolar tiny..

.s

The_Davster - 16-10-2005 at 23:20

Found out a new OTC source of para-dichlorobenzene; urinal cakes. Impurites include tertiary amines and (in some types)fragrances.

ONE MORE "PAT ON THE BACK"

quicksilver - 17-10-2005 at 07:51

Great Job! That was a lot of work and you did a fine job. I actually attempted to find somethings that are not "List I" or actually restricted on your list and could not find any that was not covered in the discussion...
----A heck of a lot of work went into that page.
I see the whole issue of restriction of chemicals as a type of "Object-moral relativism"; one of self control. Someone may mis-use a hammer by striking another person; does that mean that the hammers' availability need be controled? The "Object" is simply that. an object. It's the person that has total control of it's use or mis-use.
People who don't see the correlation of chemical restriction to "gun control" or "the War on Drugs" may not be intellectually honest in their world view.....Obviously you would not want drugs to be sold to children nor guns, nor poisons. But at some age people have to take responsibility for their actions and the meer possession of a knife or a chemical need not be a gateway to society's ills.

wertfun - 12-12-2005 at 10:05

Quote:

Originally posted by I am a fish
I've massively updated my Readily Available Chemicals website.

I have abandoned the table based format in favour of a far less restrictive layout, which enables me to add more information. I have also listed appropriate suppliers with each chemical (rather than having a separate page listing all suppliers). Last but not least, I have added many new chemicals to the list

There are almost certainly some mistakes in the list, and I would appreciate them being pointed out. Comments, further information and constructive criticism are all welcome.

[Edited on 19-1-2005 by I am a fish]

Why there is no info about nitroéthane? Is there something like immunity in the world with that chemical? 10-15 years ago nitroethane was a cheapper alternative to nitromethane. Nowadays seems to be an altenative to gold. :mad:

DeAdFX - 23-12-2005 at 13:07

Hey found a source for glyoxal 1 gallon for ~17ish usd
http://www.statlab.com/Products/CDC/CDC_ProdID_FS-1.htm

I have not ordered from this site i just found it9google image search) so that is all I can say

I haven't looked at the other prats of the site so there might be some other chemicals of use..

chloric1 - 23-12-2005 at 19:56

Not a bad find. But would like to know what the proprietory buffer listed on the MSDS is. Other chems are a little steep. $40 for 500ml of ammonia??!

Wholly crap!

DeAdFX - 24-12-2005 at 11:08

For those who love to buy in shit loads of acid....

http://www.schollechemical.com/

4x55 gallon 1.265 specific gravity sulfuric for 375usd

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000B9U3HA/qid...

DMSO 16oz 99% purity for 4.29 usd

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by DeAdFX]

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by DeAdFX]

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by DeAdFX]

Magpie - 10-1-2006 at 18:07

Here's a website I stumbled across today which complements I am a fish's list of Readily Available Chemicals. Most are duplicated in his list but there may be some new items.

http://www.chymist.com/Common%20chemicals.pdf

Additional resources

MadHatter - 10-1-2006 at 19:32

magpie, thanks for the additonal info. I saved a copy under CHEMISTRY - OTHER on my FTP.
We can never have TOO many sources. That being said, there seems to be a dismissal by
some about producing reagents by other than conventional methods. Nitric acid is a good example.
I'm scouring this and other boards for ANY means of producing what we need. I will put the
results on my FTP. The day may come when producing such compounds by these less efficient and
more complex methods may become necessary. I want the information to be available.

Magpie - 10-1-2006 at 19:39

Yes. Unfortunately the day may be coming when we are reduced to starting with "earth, fire, and water." At that point we will really need all our skills - and each other.

neutrino - 10-1-2006 at 20:14

That is an interesting document. I think I found an error in it, though:

Quote:

potassium hydroxide-- Mix wood ashes with water. Let stand overnight. Filter the solution of
caustic potash. (CAUTION: This is a highly caustic solution.) To make
potassium hydroxide, add calcium oxide, stir, and filter the solution.

Last I checked, hydroxides went to carbonates when exposed to the air, not the other way around.

evil_lurker - 10-1-2006 at 20:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Magpie
Yes. Unfortunately the day may be coming when we are reduced to starting with "earth, fire, and water." At that point we will really need all our skills - and each other.

Or a business license and a prayer...

Magpie - 26-1-2006 at 20:54

When looking for chemicals and equipment I recommend that you thoroughly get to know your local businesses. They will often have something you need and you can save time, effort, and especially postage. To my chagrin I will give two examples of screwups I recently made:

1) Needed some phenolpthalein indicator. Searched the internet and found 1 oz (33 mL) for $4.25 + $4.50 postage. Shortly after ordering this I decided to check out my local brewing supplies dealer. There was 1/2 oz phenopthalein for $1.50.

2. Needed a 6.5" (16 cm) iron frying pan. Found one on the internet. Payed ~$8 postage. A few days later was looking around a local farm supply and there it was. Same price but no freight to pay.

So I try to treat every business I walk into as a potential chemical and equipment supplier for my mad science. I'm continually surprised by what's out there. I just recently discovered a source of pure heptane: a craft shop where it is sold as a solvent for rubber cement!

The_Davster - 26-1-2006 at 21:19

Definatly Magpie, back when I was just beginning, I was at a great uncles house, and he does some work with rocks and sheet metal, and he was an old Swiss war vet, so he had some really nice guns. As he was showing me some of his guns, I saw 3 bottles of liquids, and asked what they were, they were conc. nitric, sulfuric and hydrochloric acids, he used them for cleaning rocks and sheet metal(inside, with no ventilation, hmm...). I ended up getting the business card for a lapidary supplier in town, so now I can buy nitric, sulfuric, hydrochloric, and phosphoric acids locally. They do not even ask who I am anymore, however it is a bit more expensive than ordering off the internet as they resell stuff from Fischer. They will also special order anything I want although I no longer do that after they quoted 500g of K2CO3 to be 60$....(I got 1kg for 4$ elsewhere

.)

Anywhere I go, madscience follows, hardware store, grocery store, dumpsters outside of engineering buildings, chemistry buildings and physics buildings, broken glass bins in the lab(TAs too lazy to wash sample vials and just throw them out), construction sites....really, anywhere you are has stuff with the potential to be (ab)used for madscience. :cool:

tis the life...

Ice_Chief - 2-6-2006 at 18:28

Sorry if this link has been posted before, but it is quite usefull.

http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/list?tbl=TblChemica...
It lists chemicals and what products you can find them in and in what percentages.

JRistau81 - 28-7-2006 at 10:09

HEy I am a fish. I love your site! It's been very helpful so far. In the US and I'm sure elsewhere Calcium Hydroxide can be bought in the grocery store as Pickling lime, the brand i like in particular is Mrs. Wages. It should be very pure as it is food grade.

http://mrswages.stores.yahoo.net/mrswagpiclim.html

JRistau81 - 28-7-2006 at 10:11

Just looked and it says "no additives or preservatives."

DeAdFX - 20-8-2006 at 07:53

http://valuenutritionstore.stores.yahoo.net/asac10puvic3.htm...

Speaking of food grade... 16 USD for 3lb of ascorbic acid. Pretty good deal considering this stuff goes for ~20-30 USD average on other sites. You can also get free shipping on the website for orders over 100 USD[check bottom of page for more details]. They also have some other interesting chemicals like amino acids...

t3knology - 19-10-2006 at 08:41

EXCELLENT site

very appreciated

tumadre - 19-10-2006 at 09:05

add the company: www.allelectronics.com

not a chemists' favorite , but you can't beat their prices on electronic and electrical equipment

dilemma

chemrox - 3-2-2007 at 16:14

It bothers me when members flame at other members. "I am a fish has developed his site with generosity of time and effort. I have to appreciate that. Is it unwise to publish information on where and how to do business with chemical suppliers? It's remotely possible that some of them might be abused by members and thereby become wary or unavailable in the future. More likely, they would appreciate the referrals (if they knew). How many chemicals on his list are "watched?" I don't know but not a majority anyway. Whether to openly distribute this kind of information or not is a dilemma. There are arguments for and against. Stating one's opinion on it could be done courtiously and would be more likely to be considered if presented so. I'm taking this opportunity to thank 'fish' for his work.

The_Davster - 17-2-2007 at 00:09

Interesting: Found a solution of selenous acid and nickel chloride as some sort of gun bore cleaner at the gun store. Prolly dilute though.

Few other exotic chems for cleaning guns existed, but they were about to close for the night and I had a few other things to get.

conducter - 23-3-2007 at 15:14

i was looking in the readily available chemicals website and saw a place in germany that sells 250mL n-butylamine.

does anyone know if there would be any problems importing this small amount of n-butylamine? cuz i cant seem to find a place in the u.s. that supplies it.

Nixie - 23-3-2007 at 15:17

Things are going badly here... up until last year it was easy to buy nitrate as stump remover, but now no one stocks that, and they don't give a reason, but I can guess after specific events here.

The_Davster - 23-3-2007 at 15:26

It has been banned for use as stump remover.

egloskerry - 28-4-2007 at 09:34

For ceramic suppliers, add www.sheffield-pottery.com. They have very good prices on oxides, and they also stock Na and K nitrate. The only thing that sucks is you have to order by phone, and it's sometimes hard to get through.

Magpie - 28-4-2007 at 10:28

The_Davster says:

Quote:

It has been banned for use as stump remover.

Is just for Canada? I have not heard that this is true in the US (yet).

If they ban the stump removers can pottery equivalents be far behind.

The_Davster - 28-4-2007 at 10:33

Seems just for Canada.
'Later's' stump remover was banned as it was pure KNO3. However 5 months later I saw a new brand of stump remover claiming content of KNO3. So I have no idea on the current status of it. Have not checked lately, as I have enough KNO3.
I also ordered a couple kilos from the US from a pottery supplier soon after the ban with no issues.

egloskerry - 10-5-2007 at 03:51

Well hey, you can't be too careful with that dihydrogen monoxide!

Nixie - 10-5-2007 at 03:52

That joke's too old man.

n-butylamine otc use?

jst - 6-7-2007 at 21:13

Hello,

was wondering if any one has a link they could direct me to that gives some advice on how n-butylamine could be used in an otc way or if anybody just has some advice on certain uses i could follow up?

I am a fish in his great post pays mention that it is available to 'serious artists' but i am not sure what this person means.

I love this site. I love you guys! XXXX

thank you,

jst

ewok_poacher - 10-9-2007 at 09:20

Just noticed a great supplier of methanol isn't listed anywhere. Racing Go-karts all run on methanol so just find your local Kart shop and they will sell it very cheap by the gallon. Also the WKA (World Karting Association) has strict rules on fuel so you can expect it to be pure methanol.

The_Davster - 24-9-2007 at 15:59

Taxidermy supplier
'alum sulfate' Aluminum sulfate, or K-aluminum sulfate is uncertain.
borax
dextrine
formic acid
35$ peroxide
magnesium carbonate
sodium carbonate
sodium bicarbonate
oxalic acid
pH strips.

Example:
http://www.aa asupplyhouse.com/aaacatalog.pdf
page 65

The_Davster - 28-9-2007 at 17:58

Beryllium;
Beryllium aluminum silicate, the mineral beryl, sold in a rock collection in my university's bookstore.

[Edited on 28-9-2007 by The_Davster]

I am a fish - 29-9-2007 at 02:56

Beryl (of which emerald and aquamarine are specifically coloured varieties) is harmless. It is hard and insoluble, and hence has a negligible bioavailability.

On the other hand, many extremely nasty substances are readily available from mineralogy suppliers. (I keep meaning to add an article on geological specimens as a source of chemicals to my site.)

A prime example is arsenopyrite, which is Iron Arsenic Sulphide (FeAsS). It is available on eBay almost constantly. At present I can see six specimens available in the UK, and 13 in the US. (Plus many more in eBay shops.)

The_Davster - 29-9-2007 at 07:41

Quote:

Originally posted by I am a fish

On the other hand, many extremely nasty substances are readily available from mineralogy suppliers. (I keep meaning to add an article on geological specimens as a source of chemicals to my site.)

Yes, this has been on my mind the last few days as well, I have a relatively short list of minerals with potentially interesting elements in them.

Doing this would make us like the alchemists of old!

Good to hear that beryl is not so bad, the mineral kit I saw it in included tests for scratching all the rocks in there, and the idea of powdering a beryllium mineral surprised me.

conducter - 19-10-2007 at 14:59

i think a pyridine source should be listed somewhere. apparently its easy to get but i have an easier time getting ACetic anhydride.

[Edited on 10-11-2007 by conducter]

The_Davster - 18-1-2008 at 20:56

I wonder just how much thionyl chloride would be present in a battery like this:
http://www.allspectrum.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=76_1...
or
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&...

franklyn - 20-1-2008 at 21:42

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Davster
I wonder just how much thionyl chloride would be present in a battery

Not very much , the trick is getting it out , I suppose one could
repeatedly drill into it immersed in a solvent to leach the SOCl2,
it's a piss poor way to make nerve gas. SOCl2 is consumed which
means only new batteries can be a source.

.

microcosmicus - 21-1-2008 at 08:05

I just tried to get to the "readily available chemicals" page only to find that
the webpage is unavailable

Could someone else try just to make sure this
isn't just me. Fortunately, it is backed up on the Internet Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070620170054/http://www.hyperde...

quicksilver - 27-1-2008 at 08:54

Rock / mineral collections (collection) are almost foundational to OTC sources of many things simply not available in an industrial application that the consumer can buy. ....Really good sources for pure elements like arsenic.

chemkid - 12-2-2008 at 13:51

Magnesium
Little metal pencil sharpeners made by staedtler are magnesium. I tested by shving a bit of and burning in a flame.

Chemkid

not_important - 12-2-2008 at 14:35

Quote:

Originally posted by chemkid
Magnesium
Little metal pencil sharpeners made by staedtler are magnesium. I tested by shving a bit of and burning in a flame.

Accorder to Staedtler's Web site:

Quote:

We offer metal sharpeners made out of a magnesium-aluminium alloy ...

chemkid - 12-2-2008 at 17:46

I was kind of wondering why it took so long to light (:

LoKi - 5-3-2008 at 18:04

i am a fish,
dunno if this has been mentioned yet cause i dont feel like reading through all the squabling (judging by the first page), but the nitric acid links are no longer viable, maybe add trinitylab's site for this one. there were a couple other chems that have been pulled from the respective suppliers. I'll post again when i come across them

[Edited on 3/5/08 by LoKi]

microcosmicus - 7-3-2008 at 20:03

While poking around the web, I found that cigar suppliers sell propylene glycol
solutions (typically 50% concentration) for use in humidors:

http://www.tinderbox.com/Tinderbox-com-Propylene-Glycol-Solu...
http://www.centralchef.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.as...

According to the blurb of the latter supplier, their product is rather pure.

[Edited on 7-3-2008 by microcosmicus]

kilowatt - 25-3-2008 at 00:20

I found aerosol cans of a welding anti-spatter product at home depot that appears to be mostly dichloromethane. The liquid is yellow-brown in color and leaves an oily residue but it distills very easily (under reflux of course) to pure DCM, which came over at 36°C at my altitude.

evil_lurker - 25-3-2008 at 00:36

Cheap high purity magnesium on Ebay... Item #280210052333 $35+ shipping for 10lbs.

evil_lurker - 25-3-2008 at 00:46

Quote:

Originally posted by kilowatt
I found aerosol cans of a welding anti-spatter product at home depot that appears to be mostly dichloromethane. The liquid is yellow-brown in color and leaves an oily residue but it distills very easily (under reflux of course) to pure DCM, which came over at 36°C at my altitude.

Care to enlighten us as to the name of this magic compound?

kilowatt - 25-3-2008 at 02:41

I don't recall, but it was a Lincoln Electric product and was called something like anti-spatter spray. It was in 16oz cans for something like $6.

blogfast25 - 8-5-2008 at 08:07

Well, I found the list at Hyperdeath only a few days ago and already it's been extremely helpful in finding a few much needed but hard to find chemicals, so: 'well done that man'

.

And don't take any notice of idiotic detractors like LeonardNimoy, this compendium is really useful and several companies listed will benefit from it, as supplying chemicals, even to 'spotty Herberts', within the law can be highly lucrative. I don't believe for one minute that being published here will lead to some companies to clam up. Companies that don't want to deal with individuals have perfectly other ways to weed out unwanted/suspect custom. To hell with them, I say...

And one comment: the site listed for Rayco doesn't seem to exist anymore...

chemoleo - 14-6-2008 at 18:37

Has anyone heard of this company?

http://www.inoxia.co.uk/content/info/about.aspx

It seems to be aimed at the pyro user largely...lots of metal oxides and such.

The_Davster - 14-6-2008 at 20:10

Never used it, but over at APC they have a supplier review section and it was listed there.
http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13

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