Sciencemadness Discussion Board

simple energetic materials

dynamite - 20-12-2002 at 20:08

any comments obout detonation speed and stabilyty ph4clo4 (CH2)3N2(HClO4)2 NH2CSNH3ClO4 ClO4HN(CH2)3(O-O)3... Perchlorated HMTD

DeusExMachina - 20-12-2002 at 21:16

why two topics?

PHILOU Zrealone - 13-3-2003 at 06:55

PH4(+) salts are unstable in water...PH3 burns spontaneously in the air; process of making needs to be 100% anhydrous!PH4ClO4 for sure very unstable.

What formula did you meant by
(CH2)3N2(HClO4)2?It is not obvious!

Anyway: CH3-NH-NH-CH3 dinitrate or diperchlorate should be very very good and sensitive!

NH2-CS-NH3ClO4 less good than urea perchlorate and than guanidine perchlorate about the same sensitivity!

HMTD diperchlorate and dinitrate where exposed in a former reaction of a strong acid will produce heat even if diluted and decomposition will be a major side reaction; maybe if strongly cooled?
They will be much better owing to better OB and higher density; very sensitive and cristalline!

osamafon - 14-3-2003 at 08:35

what do you think obout this mix. 1mol hexamin+18mol nh4no3 and 20% by weight water,when this mix is heated to 80-120C it all disolves and stays as long it is hot so it is perfecetly mixed as HE if Im right its explosive energi is 4-4,1MJ/kg and density 1,59g./ml similar to tnt and Ithink dv. is 4-6 km/s

PHILOU Zrealone - 24-3-2003 at 06:31

It is a simple liquid oxydiser binary explosive!Slurry!
80% saturated NH4NO3 solution with some fuel from hexamine; resulting partial anion exchange lead to in situ formation of hexamine dinitrate (sensitiser) and gaseous bubbles of NH3 that allows propagation of the detonation wave by hot spots during adiabatic compression!

H2O2 explosive

dynamite - 9-5-2003 at 18:53

is it possible ? metal peroxid + anhydrous acid=90+% H2O2. H2O2 releases mono oxygen ,and this is super strong oxydiser,example CH3CO2CH3 (AP) wery pour OB but relativeli strong explosive,densyti is also smal , think that OB balanced solution of H2O2+high densyti fuel makes wery powerful but not with wery high VOD explosive (low densyti,3-4 x TNT energi I if Im not wrong)

PHILOU Zrealone - 3-6-2003 at 14:36

BaO2 + H2SO4 conc --> BaSO4 (s) + H2O2(l) + heat

The use of precipitation reaction is essential because otherwise the acid takes the H2O2 and form a mix of peracids in water!
Sole problem it is an acid base reaction and a precipitation reaction; thus the heat generated is fairly strong...this has to be moderated a lot to avoid H2O2 decomposition, and autocatalytic explosion.

H2O2 + fuel are indeed explosives binary mixes often hypergolic (especially wit perhydrols >90% H2O2).

hydrazine diperoxide?

narkar - 30-3-2004 at 09:07

can it be done so 2H2O2+N2H4 it should wery high DV. explosive. The mono oxygen is faster, stronger oxydiser than HNO3. What do you think about it.

Marvin - 1-4-2004 at 23:19

Its a hypergolic mixture. Nitrate has the advantage of being much less reactive at RTP. Not to mention that over half its mass isnt dead weight as water.

IgnorantlyIntelligent - 10-4-2004 at 20:52

Peroxides of conc. 62% or higher are very hard to obtain. If you found a suplier for higher % than that you probably wouldnt be able to buy very much of it. I heard about an accident that occured in Motarola(didn't spell it right I know) where a drum that had H2O2 in it accidently had a peice of aluminum dropped inot it where i then suddenly exploded (just from the slight amount of H2O2 still remaining on the walls and bottom of the drum) and blew it through that story of the building. Can't remember where I heard that......

As simple as it gets

franklyn - 12-6-2006 at 07:28

Much overlooked is the energy available from a slurry of Aluminum powder with water.

2Al + 3H20 -> Al2O3 + 3H2 which yields 1760 Kcal/Kg

( Comparatively , the more destructive high explosive TNT is just 930 Kcal/Kg )

Obviously this is the very definition of insensitive so sensitizing is prerequisite.

Store bought NaClO solution is just the thing, 1/3 Al + 2/3 Bleach B Y W E I G H T !

Initiation however, requires confinement and a booster detonating explosive.

1/3 Magnesium is somewhat easier to set off with 2/3 Ammonium Hydroxide, but this

begins to fizz and degrade at once Mg + 2NH4OH -> Mg(OH)2 + 2NH3 + H2

Or you can also use 1/2 Mg with 1/2 Bleach.

Excess oxygen is required so these mixtures cannot be stoichiometric.

Sodium polyacrylate water absorbing polymer crystals sold at lawn and garden centers

is essential to keep the metal in suspension. None of these mixtures can be stored ,

they are not stable , must be mixed on site and must not be transported ever.

With Magnesium , initiation is possible from the exposed ends of an electrical line cord

twisted together to short out.

In practice , this chemistry is only applied with a water soluble high explosive such

as Astrolite ( Hydrazine Nitrate ). Second largest conventional bomb deployed by the U.S.

the 15000 pound BLU 82 , contains 12,600 pounds of H E X ( High Energy Explosive )

which is 40 % Aluminum powder, 40 % Ammonium Nitrate , and 20 % water with polystyrene

binder to prevent settling of the mix. See ->

Don't run out and try this until this post has been critiqued if there may be errors.

A related thread with practical results is here ->


[Edited on 14-6-2006 by franklyn]

jimmyboy - 12-6-2006 at 08:51

aluminum and water?? hmmm -- you need a compound with weak molecular bonds that is ready to release energy for a good brisant explosive -- aluminum is only a catalyst - will increase the energy of alot of mixtures as far as i know..

franklyn - 4-7-2006 at 04:36

Powdered Aluminum or Magnesium mixtures with Methanol can also be made
to detonate and produce greater blast effect than military explosives.
This is because the product of explosion is itself combustable in air, adding
a hyperbaric effect ( similar to Fuel-Air explosions ) to the initial blast.


Zinc - 13-7-2006 at 00:00

Originally posted by franklyn
Powdered Aluminum or Magnesium mixtures with Methanol can also be made
to detonate

I assume they require a booster. Would APAN be a good booster for this explosive? Also can ethanol be used instead of methanol?

franklyn - 13-7-2006 at 08:31

Originally posted by Zinc
I assume they require a booster. . can ethanol be used instead of methanol?

I posted this factoid as a general interest item as I found it surprising
when I discovered this. Having no direct information nor experience in
it's preparation I am not the right person to ask. I know this has been
studied as far back as the 1940's. It should be noted that this is not
used in industry or mining , this suggests it will only support low order
detonation if that and it is a hazard of incompatible materials to avoid
rather than the prospect of a practical explosive.

Related to this thread ->
I recall having seen mention of an Aluminum and water based propellant
to generate hydrogen in hypervelocity gunnery , but this can have no
particular advantage over the nitrocellulose based powder in common
use now.