Hey guys I have been looking at the other posts and such and it seams that most of you are getting your H2SO4 form the drain cleaner. Well that’s
fine for some stuff, but you should all know it has Fe in it, that’s what gives it that dark tint.
Just some thing to watch out for.
p.s This was typed late at night sorry for the spelling
[Edited on 5-6-2005 by my nootloss]guy - 5-6-2005 at 12:13
If it has Fe in it, why wouldn't it dissolve and form Fe ions?Nerro - 5-6-2005 at 13:18
It does dissolve... It forms FeSO4 that dissolves in the H2SO4chemoleo - 5-6-2005 at 13:20
More importantly, my nootloss, how did you come to that conclusion? How can you say that every drain cleaner has this problem?my nootloss - 5-6-2005 at 15:18
Well you see when they make H2SO4 (most of it) it gets in it from the manufacturing process (the stuff that is pure is made with SO3, so if that make
it any other way it will have Fe in it).
Rooto
MadHatter - 5-6-2005 at 20:39
My Rooto brand of sulphuric acid drain cleaner is slightly amber in color - not a dark tint.
Is it possible that this manufacturer is using a better production process ? The Roebic
"Drain Flow" I've used in the past appears to have carbon particles in it. No problem !
I filtered it through glass wool before using for a nitric acid vacuum distillation.Darkblade48 - 5-6-2005 at 21:05
I have some Clear Line drain cleaner, and it happens to bed red (!!!) in colour.
I have no clue what it is myself, maybe someone could explain what it was?darkflame89 - 6-6-2005 at 05:08
That dark red tint(or just amber) might not be iron(III) ions, it could be some other organic substance unknown to us? I mean that red coloration must
be one of the key ingredients, not some impurity. So, if its really due to iron(III) ions, what purpose does it serve in drain cleaning? Coloring the
dirt and grease red? An organic enzyme or something might be a more plausible conclusion, would it not?Pyridinium - 6-6-2005 at 08:10
Quote:
Originally posted by darkflame89
So, if its really due to iron(III) ions, what purpose does it serve in drain cleaning? Coloring the dirt and grease red? An organic enzyme or
something might be a more plausible conclusion, would it not?
Iron is a contaminant of much industrial H2SO4, so maybe they just left it in there because it's much cheaper than investing the kilowatt-hours
to distill the acid.
I don't know of any enzyme that could survive strong H2SO4, especially not sitting on a shelf for prolonged periods.
It is possible there is some other organic substance there. I'm sure there's some dye.
Since hot, conc. H2SO4 can destroy organic matter, you would see the color disappear or go very pale after heating it to just below boiling and
keeping it there for about 24 hours.
You would also see black (carbon) start to accumulate on the sides of the boiling flask after several hours.
It's not something I'd advise you do, though, unless you have a good fume hood.evil_lurker - 6-6-2005 at 08:15
I had a link to one of the mfg's web sites that breaks each product down but can't seem to find it at the moment.
Anyways, Liquid Lightning is NOT a good sulfuric acid source, it has way too many buffers, almost to the point of it being filled with soap or
something. In fact, you can spill it on your skin, and have 5 minutes to wash it off!!!
Rooto is good, but be aware that it is recycled acid from steel pickling plants and what not. Most of the iron and what not is precipitated, but some
will always remain.
Out of about 10 or so diffrent products, I can only think of one that was virgin concentrated sulfuric, most were recycled and several had buffers
making them useless to the amateaur chemist.vulture - 6-6-2005 at 11:04
Quote:
Well you see when they make H2SO4 (most of it) it gets in it from the manufacturing process (the stuff that is pure is made with SO3, so if that make
it any other way it will have Fe in it).
What the? Most sulfuric acid is made from sulfur by the contact process, which doesn't involve any iron at all.
Recycled acid is bound to be more expensive because of the purification and concentration required, whereas the contact process provides waste heat
that can be used for other reactions in the same chemical plant.FrankRizzo - 6-6-2005 at 12:34
Didn't we come to the conclusion, in another thread, that adding 30% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> to form Caros acid will
clear up most drain cleaner sulfuric?unionised - 6-6-2005 at 13:07
"Recycled acid is bound to be more expensive because of the purification and concentration required"
If that were true, it wouldn't get recycled.
Used pickling acid has a fair bit of iron in it but, if the water is boiled off it's still fine for "rough" use. Since the alternative
is to dispose of it (which is expensive) boiling off the water and selling it cuts the losses.my nootloss - 6-6-2005 at 15:08
Quote:
Originally posted by unionised
Used pickling acid has a fair bit of iron in it but, if the water is boiled off it's still fine for "rough" use. Since the alternative
is to dispose of it (which is expensive) boiling off the water and selling it cuts the losses.
This "rough use" is the drain cleaner
If you guys do not trust me then ask you self “why would they use good acid to poor down my drain?”
[Edited on 6-6-2005 by my nootloss]Pyridinium - 6-6-2005 at 15:22
Quote:
Originally posted by my nootloss
This "rough use" is the drain cleaner
If you guys do not trust me then ask you self “why would they use good acid to poor down my drain?”
I trust you about it. Drain cleaner is a pretty rough use. But... this isn't going to be settled until we get hold of some and analyze it.
Get some, put a carefully weighed amount in a pre-weighed, dried crucible, evaporate to dryness slowly over heat (slowly to prevent spattering), then
roast the residue to dryness. Cool to room temp in a vacuum dessicator.
Weigh the dried solids by difference. It might be helpful to do a washing of these solids with water, then a careful re-evaporation and re-roasting
in case there are Na, K, Ca ions in there.
Then we could find out what percentage of metal oxides are in the stuff.
Don't mind my lack of detail here, my blood Gluc. is dropping and can't think straight at the moment.my nootloss - 6-6-2005 at 16:50
I looked up my drain cleaner (not acid, thanks neutrino) with the us patent office, there was a lot of crap in there, and the % of acid was like 70 to
98, so all the numbers it gave where not to exact, I suggest you do what the guy above me said and just test it out, but I would just look at the
temperature of what’s boiling off to make sure all your boiling off is water and acid.
It would be nice if someone took the time and did that with the 3 most common acids that we use. Oh and you might want to shake the acid up, to make
sure that and stuff at the bottom of the acid bottle is moved around so you can get the best %'s for your acid. (Don’t shake to hard because
those bottles are only rated for 4-5 years, and you don’t want 1 gallon of H2SO4 dumping out on to your nice floor. I know a guy who knows a guy
that happened to but it was HNO3, and it was the second floor of his house… need I say more)
[Edited on 7-6-2005 by my nootloss]neutrino - 6-6-2005 at 17:19
