Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Operation Cat Army

Operation Cat Army

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 16:48

I'm going to let you decide my fate.

I am looking for a new substence to synthesize. As I would like you all to help me come up with my next project there are a few rules for safty measures.

A) I live an appartment. So no loud bangs, no explosvies. My land lord has been rather nice about my lab in my living room so I dont want to push their buttons to far.

B) It abosulty has to be able to be done Inside or outside in a safe manor. I do not have a fume hood at this time.

C) flammable substences are okay as I have safty equipment, but nothing thats going to spray fire all over the place.

D)Skill level is around 5 out of 10. I am of "average" skill so please nothing overly complex.

Also please note, that I have 2 cats and a wife ( yes I possibly have the best wife in the world. How many of you can say it would be okay with a lab in your living room. Not only that buy my work bench for my fire arms and reloading is also in the livingroom) so nothing that will be harmful to them.As they do not have the protection. Those the site of a cat in a gasmask could be funny.

So if you have any ideas in what I can do next to further my learning please, by all means suggest away.

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by gardul]

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by gardul]

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by gardul]

Fenir - 6-11-2014 at 17:53

I suggest the synthesis of methyl salicilate. It is a rewarding reaction while being both easy and safe.

Bert - 6-11-2014 at 17:57

Two cats & a wife... Not afraid of flammable materials.

CATNIP EXTRACTION!

Soxhelet extractor. Catnip. 190 proof ethanol. Extract & purify active volatile constituents of catnip. If in area of North America with wild cougar population, extra points for placing extract sample and game camera in cougar habitat, then publishing images & maybe video here...

Failing that, buzz up the house moogies on "catnip oil" and post video of THAT/your wife's reaction...

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by Bert]

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 18:02

Quote: Originally posted by Fenir

I suggest the synthesis of methyl salicilate. It is a rewarding reaction while being both easy and safe.

I think I will give that a try. I think I will start with some good old tynoel and move forward that way. Since I live in the desert and dont have much skill for growing plants..

Bert - 6-11-2014 at 18:09

Eh. Making aspirin was usually among the first organic chem labs back when I was in high school- Good choice.

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 18:16

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Two cats & a wife... Not afraid of flammable materials.

CATNIP EXTRACTION!

Soxhelet extractor. Catnip. 190 proof ethanol. Extract & purify active volatile constituents of catnip. If in area of North America with wild cougar population, extra points for placing extract sample and game camera in cougar habitat, then publishing images & maybe video here...

Failing that, buzz up the house moogies on "catnip oil" and post video of THAT/your wife's reaction...

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by Bert]

I have been told I cant experment on the cats. BUT, I think this doesnt really count as experments on the cats.. right.. right?

Bert - 6-11-2014 at 18:37

If the cats are willing participants... And not catnip "virgins"... Go for it!

j_sum1 - 6-11-2014 at 18:46

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

If the cats are willing participants... And not catnip "virgins"... Go for it!

And take video!

diddi - 6-11-2014 at 20:02

if you live in a desert area, there are cacti all around the place. there are some very interesting organics that can be extracted from cacti!

but I vote for methyl salicylate or one of the other smelly esters. they are easy and very rewarding. also you get to make the hobby a bit more accessible to "ordinary" people by making familiar things like "fake banana" etc

see this great info for inspiration
http://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/infograph...

Nepetalactone

Bert - 6-11-2014 at 20:04

I have now looked at some processes, a home version as linked below might include a simple improvised kitchen steam distillation, non polar solvent extraction of obtained aqueous solution, optional use of salts to improve phase separation and dry extraction solvent, removal of related non active chemicals.

It's actually a nice (relatively!) safe beginner lab for learning some common organic/bio chem procedures. PLUS the furry cat army you will command on completion!

*Note: pure nepetalactone will not actually enable you to create a cat army.

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 20:24

Quote: Originally posted by diddi

if you live in a desert area, there are cacti all around the place. there are some very interesting organics that can be extracted from cacti!

but I vote for methyl salicylate or one of the other smelly esters. they are easy and very rewarding. also you get to make the hobby a bit more accessible to "ordinary" people by making familiar things like "fake banana" etc

see this great info for inspiration
http://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/infograph...

I live in az so yes I live in the desert. But they are rather fond of their cacti. so hurting them can lead to some nasty time in jail.

Dan Vizine - 6-11-2014 at 20:38

As a cat owner and child of the 60's, I'd vote for the catnip extraction. Help your feline buddies find a better way to Huxley's gates!

Oh, I should also add that it is utterly harmless to cats, even safer than pot is to people.

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by Dan Vizine]

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 21:04

I think I will actually do the cat nip one. Since most of you are getting rather ecitied about it. I will need a little bit of time. I would like to actually do a bit of research on this as well. I don't attempt anything new with out actually knowing what I am doing. I also am in need of a new condensor which i need to order this weekend. My broken one is a gram, any suggestions of style I should get? So stay tuned. I will make a video of it and post all findings and research. The wife has given me the Okay to use our cats as subjects.... Form here on now, this is called Operation Cat Army.

j_sum1 - 6-11-2014 at 21:09

Quote: Originally posted by gardul

this is called Operation Cat Army.

Or OCA.
Polverone or Bert, please update gardul's status to "Hazard to cats". We might as well have some fun with this.

CuReUS - 7-11-2014 at 02:09

i would suggest you make either perfumes or dyes(especially fluorescent ones) .
my personal favourite is strawberaldehyde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_methylphenylglycidate

also you could read these books for more ideas
https://uqu.edu.sa/files2/tiny_mce/plugins/filemanager/files...

http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Home-Chemistry-Exper...

for dyes ,you can ask magpie .He is a member here and has synthesised many beautiful compounds (martius yellow) etc.,although some compounds can be quite tricky.

P.S. -the title of this thread is quite misleading actually ,before i read your post ,i thought you were talking about this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methcathinone

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by CuReUS]

Magpie - 7-11-2014 at 09:37

Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS

for dyes ,you can ask magpie .He is a member here and has synthesised many beautiful compounds (martius yellow) etc.,although some compounds can be quite tricky.

IIRC methyl orange and fluorescein are easy to make, once you have the precursors of course.

I look forward to seeing a video of cats doing pushups, running an obstacle course, and marching in formation.

gardul - 7-11-2014 at 16:22

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS

for dyes ,you can ask magpie .He is a member here and has synthesised many beautiful compounds (martius yellow) etc.,although some compounds can be quite tricky.

After the extraction of cat nip I think looking at Dyes may be a good Idea.

WGTR - 7-11-2014 at 19:28

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

I look forward to seeing a video of cats doing pushups, running an obstacle course, and marching in formation.

I would pay money to see that.

gardul - 11-11-2014 at 21:11

The first results are in...

Oliver, my black cat nip addicted cat: Indifferent... Doesn't like it.. Ignores it...I had baught new toys and used their old ones for test subjects.. If I attempt to put it on them, or spray him he RUNS AWAY and hides.!

Ruger the fat lazy one: well... nothing changed...

Results: granted I only tested on two cats. I am sure you CAN NOT start a cat army with this stuff. More Experments in the future maybe; But I think I will be moving on from this subject for now.

As I may start a you tube channel.. Who knows.

[Edited on 12-11-2014 by gardul]

Bert - 30-12-2014 at 08:23

Drat, I was hoping for a new way to "herd cats"-

As a consolation, I have altered gardul's status...

[Edited on 30-12-2014 by Bert]

Brain&Force - 30-12-2014 at 13:01

Aw, come on!

He's already shown that he's not even a hazard to teh kittehs!

gardul - 31-12-2014 at 13:05

I will be trying this again... it just takes a lot of catnip. maybe I just have odd cats. perhaps I should test it on some strays?

forgottenpassword - 31-12-2014 at 13:52

Did I miss the part where you detailed the extraction method that you used? Either you didn't extract the active principles, or you used material that was inactive. It seems likely that you used an inappropriate extraction method, but you don't describe what it was, only that it failed. How can anyone help you to do it properly next time if you don't describe your method? Obviously they can't: so presumably you're not doing this extraction with the hope of sucessfully extracting anything?!

[Edited on 31-12-2014 by forgottenpassword]

gardul - 31-12-2014 at 14:13

Quote: Originally posted by forgottenpassword

Did I miss the part where you detailed the extraction method that you used? Either you didn't extract the active principles, or you used material that was inactive. It seems likely that you used an inappropriate extraction method, but you don't describe what it was, only that it failed. How can anyone help you to do it properly next time if you don't describe your method? Obviously they can't: so presumably you're not doing this extraction with the hope of sucessfully extracting anything?!

[Edited on 31-12-2014 by forgottenpassword]

You can't say that i wasn't successful in extracting because my subjects where indifferent. Before you judge me, perhaps you should learn about how cat nip effects a cat. this road, thank you to Bert, taught me a few things also about cat biology as well.

Texium - 31-12-2014 at 15:15

Quote: Originally posted by gardul

Quote: Originally posted by forgottenpassword

Sure, no one is criticizing you, but could you at least explain how you went about the extraction so advice may be offered and everyone can understand what you did? Personally, I'm just curious.

gardul - 31-12-2014 at 17:16

thank you zts16 for asking in a more elagant way. I would just like to state I am not finished with this. As right now I am looking into buying about 5lbs worth of catnip once my other ( more long term experiments are completed).

I ran two forms of extractions. one by basic steam distilliation and another by soxhlet extraction.

Basic Steam Distilliation:

This setup is like every other set up that chemists use

1000ml RBF (2 neck) One neck is taken for separatory funnel with hot water, and is added to the RBF when needed. the other is is connected to a 3 way adaptor. Top of the three is a thermometer. on the 75 degree angle is a liebig condensor. Which cold water was pumped through. on the far side of the condenser is the vacuum adaptor, ( which was left open) that connected to a 500ml single neck RBF.

.5lbs of catnip and 500ml if water where used.

when the process was done I gathered just under 200ml. I then distilled this again ( just the ending product). This time I was able to get about 93 ml and product was a little thicker then water.

The density of the Nepetalactone was slightly more then H20 but not as much as Glycerol.

Oliver, my black cat who enjoys catnip, did seem to sniff it, but tended to be put off but the strength of the smell.

I would like to state, that this experiment has a 33% rate of failure right of the bat. As it is belived that only 2/3 of cats enjoy
Nepetalactone.

I would also like to point out JUST because your friendly feline likes cat nip, Doesn't mean it will like pure Nepetalactone. as some felines can be put of by the stronger sent.

A good example is, I love the smell of ammonia.. but there is a point where it can become noxious and over bearing. While this is rare in felines when it comes to Nepetalactone, it is still a possiblity. thus is why I wanted to wait until I was able to test more cats and not just my two.

now the soxhlet extraction:

Please note, that Ethanol of any sort is extremely dangerous to felines. Wine being a double hit. My wife working in the vet field has seen some uninformed people do some very very odd things.

Thus is one of the reasons I chose not to use ethonal. If you need to know more on the effects of this I will continue but will later if requested.

The same idea was used through steam. but with better results. the product was more constrated and seemed to have less water in the final product.

From everthing I have read,water will extract Nepetalactone. Infact I have read artilces where people used Vegtable oil. I will have to find the articles when I get a chance as I am at work right now.

Nepetalactone doesn't seem to hard to extract, it really up to the feline to see if they enjoy it or not. Which becomes a hit or miss. It is an intresting study I must say. and there is a wealth on knowdledge on the subject surprisingly.

I will probably add more to this, it's like i said I am now at work and need to well do some things at work.

[Edited on 1-1-2015 by gardul]: I would like to add, that I have baughlt comerically available extract as well. with the same results.

[Edited on 1-1-2015 by gardul]

warteo - 16-1-2015 at 04:27

Have you considered trying extraction of dolicholactone from cat thyme, Teucrium marum? Cat thyme is supposedly much more attractive to many cats than catnip, I have noted this effect with my own two cats who are both rather indifferent to catnip but go crazy on cat thyme. The attraction is so strong that my plant I have growing in the garden has an upturned wire basket over it to protect it from total destruction by roaming felines.

Also valerian root, containing actinidine, is another known attractant. Open a bottle of valerian herbal tablets and the stinky sock smell that comes wafting out sends cats crazy.

Finally, an observation I made in the past week or so that does not appear to be documented anywhere is that Salvia dolomitica is quite attractive to cats. It has that half fragrant/half stinky smell similar to Teucrium marum.

Will be interested in hearing if any of this proves useful in your creation of a kitteh army.

gardul - 16-1-2015 at 11:37

Quote: Originally posted by warteo

Have you considered trying extraction of dolicholactone from cat thyme, Teucrium marum? Cat thyme is supposedly much more attractive to many cats than catnip, I have noted this effect with my own two cats who are both rather indifferent to catnip but go crazy on cat thyme. The attraction is so strong that my plant I have growing in the garden has an upturned wire basket over it to protect it from total destruction by roaming felines.

Also valerian root, containing actinidine, is another known attractant. Open a bottle of valerian herbal tablets and the stinky sock smell that comes wafting out sends cats crazy.

Finally, an observation I made in the past week or so that does not appear to be documented anywhere is that Salvia dolomitica is quite attractive to cats. It has that half fragrant/half stinky smell similar to Teucrium marum.

Will be interested in hearing if any of this proves useful in your creation of a kitteh army.

hmm I will move forward in my research this way. sounds interesting. I will have to do a bit of research first as i'm extremely unfamiliar with this substance,. I thank you for the information.

Zombie - 17-1-2015 at 00:09

As a new member here I have to tell you, I love this thread. From the conception to this point.

Reason is I raise Presa Canario dogs (7 of them), and at the same time I have 5 cats that live here with us. It's a balancing act to say the least.
My thought is simple... Feed cat nip extract to the dogs, and see how they react to a pride of crazed kittens.

Not really... I love my doges too much to allow the cats to take advantage of them.

I just love the idea of the deer cam, and Cougar picts... or maybe a Cheetah.

Obese_cougar_woman_at_the_gym_zpsfbe0db09.jpg - 83kB