Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ways to get pure chlorine gas in a container/separate from the generator

Cou - 10-3-2015 at 17:13

I plan to get TCCA Pool tablets for making chlorine gas one day, but they only come in large expensive buckets, so until then I have to make do with the HCL + bleach generator.

My problem is: I can't figure out a way to separate the chlorine gas from the HCl + bleach liquid mixture at the bottom of the container. The reason is because I want colloids that form from chlorine reactions such as FeCl3 to settle to the bottom in anhydrous form. Since chlorine is heavy and sinks, any attempt to pour the liquid out makes the chlorine escape too. I was thinking of an apparatus with a small jar that generates chlorine, with a tube on top of it leading to another empty jar where the chlorine will displace the air. Since I live in texas, I need to do this without professional glassware. What tube material is safe for this, preferably something flexible that won't react with chlorine to make carcinogenic organochlorides such as vinyl chloride. Vinyl tubing is safe?

Magpie - 10-3-2015 at 17:43

I buy TCCA as one large tablet ~3" in diameter. I just bought 2 for $2ea, on sale ; they normally cost about twice that. Look around.

I use Tygon tubing for Cl2. I believe it is PVC. Available at any hardware store.

IrC - 10-3-2015 at 19:39

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I buy TCCA as one large tablet ~3" in diameter. I just bought 2 for $2ea, on sale ; they normally cost about twice that. Look around.

I use Tygon tubing for Cl2. I believe it is PVC. Available at any hardware store.


http://emurdock.com/tygon-tubing-material.aspx

There are over 40 different formulas for it. PVC is one. So it does matter which tubing is used. Well maybe not for Cl2 I believe all formulas easily handle even Cl2 but there is one danger to consider especially if any organic nonpolar solvents have ever run through it, and/or if ever exposed to heat, UV, or sunlight. It gets hard and cracks. Somehow I doubt anyone would have a good day if that happened with a halogen gas running through it. So always check the entire length to make sure it is soft and pliable. If any portion feels hard likely microscopic cracks already exist which will grow. The Fluoropolymer variety may be better for Cl2 but I am only guessing.

Magpie - 10-3-2015 at 20:10

Actually I don't think the tubing I buy for Cl2 is Tygon. What I use is the clear, plastic, flexible tubing found at my hardware store. All it says is "vinyl" on the tubing.

IrC - 10-3-2015 at 21:31

I am sure it is still Tygon, the vinyl variety (clear with walls that won't collapse under moderate vacuum) and more flexible than the PVC (which can handle harder vacuum than vinyl). Vinyl Tygon is more common in the typical hardware market, harder than the silicone (very floppy flexible, usually yellow to yellow-green). IIRC the Vinyl Tygon is used most often for fuel lines on small engines such as lawnmower engines. Mainly because while it also hardens it is unlikely to leak fuel unless it is bent after gas, heat, and sunlight works on it for a time. One thing about Tygon is it can handle so many different chemicals safely. Except Trichlor, which is hell on most plastics, usually causing them to swell and grow very large. Take a latex glove like the thicker kitchen kind and immerse it in warm Trichlor for hours. The glove grows so large you can put it over your head like a bag. I'm talking huge to the point of being freaky.



morganbw - 11-3-2015 at 02:41

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
I plan to get TCCA Pool tablets for making chlorine gas one day, but they only come in large expensive buckets, so until then I have to make do with the HCL + bleach generator.

My problem is: I can't figure out a way to separate the chlorine gas from the HCl + bleach liquid mixture at the bottom of the container. The reason is because I want colloids that form from chlorine reactions such as FeCl3 to settle to the bottom in anhydrous form. Since chlorine is heavy and sinks, any attempt to pour the liquid out makes the chlorine escape too. I was thinking of an apparatus with a small jar that generates chlorine, with a tube on top of it leading to another empty jar where the chlorine will displace the air. Since I live in texas, I need to do this without professional glassware. What tube material is safe for this, preferably something flexible that won't react with chlorine to make carcinogenic organochlorides such as vinyl chloride. Vinyl tubing is safe?


Cou, when you do get around to doing this, start small. Also figure out what to do, if you are perhaps, getting more Chlorine than you know what to do with.
It is quite often, much harder, to stop a reaction than to start one.
Be safe

j_sum1 - 11-3-2015 at 03:15

Agreed on quantity.
Most of the Cl2 I have produced is during the processing of battery gunk. HCl on MnO2/graphite battery paste produces quite a lot of Cl2. My first attempt using less than 20g of battery gunk was enough to compel me to evacuate my shed for several hours.
Now when doing the same thing, I work out my stoichiometry carefully and calculate the volume of gas that will be produced. I have something to compare it to which is good. I add my acid dripwise using a sep funnel. And I have a tube taking my excess Cl2 into a bucket of NaOH solution.
I do the same for TCCA and HCl. Although obviously in that case I plan to use some of the Cl2. The neutralisation bucket is still in place.
Volumes small. Take it slow. Have a neutralising system. Have an evacuation plan.

Praxichys - 11-3-2015 at 11:17

I can confirm that clear vinyl tubing works fine.

Cl2 can be made in many ways.

TCCA + HCl (Sometimes sold as individual pucks, as Magpie says)
Ca(OCl)2 + HCl (My personal favorite - use "pool shock" sold in small bags for about $5
MnO2 + HCl (MnO2 can be had from alkaline batteries or from a pottery store)

unionised - 11-3-2015 at 12:38

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
The reason is because I want colloids that form from chlorine reactions such as FeCl3 to settle to the bottom in anhydrous form.

What?
FeCl3 is not generally colloidal.

aga - 11-3-2015 at 14:11

perhaps Cou meant solloids ?

could be liquoids.

[Edited on 11-3-2015 by aga]