Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Screen Writer Looking for Explosive Chemicals

Screen Writer Looking for Explosive Chemicals

HumanVoiceProductions - 2-4-2015 at 09:30

My Name is Mark Anthony Games and I am an actor and Film-maker.
I am looking for chemicals that are crystalline and react to fire by explosion. Does not have to be dramatic just enough to scare criminal gathering.

A character called Flame is obsessed with fire, so much that she researches chemical combustion to. Flames crew have set up a meeting with a criminal gang, I want something that they could have spread on the ground that will combust with either a bullet or something thrown that is on fire.

I was looking at Ammonium Permanganate ...... Suggestions Welcomed and maybe a credit in the film given

https://www.youtube.com/user/HumanVoiceFilms

Reactive chemicals to fire

HumanVoiceProductions - 2-4-2015 at 09:32

My Name is Mark Anthony Games and I am an actor and Film-maker.
I am looking for chemicals that are crystalline and react to fire by explosion. Does not have to be dramatic just enough to scare criminal gathering.

A character called Flame is obsessed with fire, so much that she researches chemical combustion to. Flames crew have set up a meeting with a criminal gang, I want something that they could have spread on the ground that will combust with either a bullet or something thrown that is on fire.

I was looking at Ammonium Permanganate ...... Suggestions Welcomed and maybe a credit in the film given

https://www.youtube.com/user/HumanVoiceFilms

Etaoin Shrdlu - 2-4-2015 at 09:44

Please don't post this all over the forum.

Amos - 2-4-2015 at 09:49

I second this, just one post would have sufficed. So what exactly are you looking for, visually? There are a lot of people here that can probably help you find just what you're looking for if you describe what you have in mind. As of now, it's kind of ambiguous because first you said explosive and then you said you just wanted the ground to catch fire.

[Edited on 4-2-2015 by Amos]

deltaH - 2-4-2015 at 10:14

Benzoyl peroxide is used to make the spectacular fireball explosions for movie special effects.

See link here to see small scale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sfkEy4xgg

(The first half is background info, the second half is flame tests)

Yes, it's also the active ingredient in acne creams funny enough

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by deltaH]

Loptr - 2-4-2015 at 10:31

Any primary explosive? Some secondary explosives are able to be set off by a bullet, just take a look at Tannerite targets, but they require quite a bit to go off, also known as the critical diameter.

Erythritol tetranitrate is a secondary explosive easily able to be prepared by any one with nitric acid/nitrate salt, sulfuric acid, and erythritol (a sugar substitute). It can be set off by a hammer blow, or a bullet. I have seen a patent about using ETN to sensitize ammonium nitrate (AN) further by addition of an amount of ETN. But the critical diameter still comes into play here, and a detonation might not be able to propagate given a "sprinkling" of it on the ground. You would need something more sensitive.

Organic peroxides are unpredictable, such as benzoyl peroxide, acetone peroxide (TATP; think terrorists), and I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it if it's sprinkled on the ground! lol

Mercury fulminate! ;-) Just don't step on it. (used in a breaking bad scene)

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by Loptr]

His name is Flame. Why not napalm? Not so much an explosion, but a lot of fire.

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by Loptr]

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 10:54

This is film/video. You do not need (or WANT!!!) a real chemical that really does the thing you wish to portray. Think "Heisenberg" walked into Tuco's lair with a REAL egg sized lump of Mercury fulminate?!

You need to be able to repeat the exact effect over and over for multiple takes, safely and precisely with a bare minimum of technical help.

Which is why such an effect would be done by a pro with something like LP gas and flame bars, not "real" solid energetic materials/pyrophorics.

I do this for a living. U2U me if you like.

Loptr - 2-4-2015 at 11:01

Wait, for some reason I was thinking this was for a story, not an actual film.

I would have said they have pyrotechnic companies for things like that. Listen to Bert.

I withdraw what I wrote as it would likely kill you.

EDIT: I feel like an idiot right now.... :-X

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by Loptr]

Metacelsus - 2-4-2015 at 11:12

CGI?

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 11:35

Could OP make it clear wether he seeks an actual, workable SFX scheme, or a plausible sounding chemical reaction mechanism to be mentioned in the story line...

HumanVoiceProductions - 2-4-2015 at 13:14

Hello all, this is for script writing purposes, will not actually be used in the filming, lol. I need to get the dialogue correct and have them tallk about the correct chemicals etc. For filming it would most likely be CGI

Also sorry about posting, did not realize they come up in the ame feed, thought they were separate feeds. My appologies

aga - 2-4-2015 at 14:20

Quote:

that will combust with either a bullet or something thrown that is on fire.

Petrol.

Do i get an Oscar ?

Edit:

Any volatile will do. Nail varnish remover. That's 2 Oscars you owe me.

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by aga]

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 14:52

Warning! Disgruntled SFX man/weapon wrangler/armorer rant below!

-------------

Have at it, gentlemen- Important sounding and sexy, vaguely menacing buzz words- And back it up with a bit of Frankenstein lab type eye candy.

Rattle off jargon: Nitrate, nitric ester, organic peroxide, pyrophoric, pyrogenic, Goldschmidt reactions, thermite, roll out all the buzz words. Be sure to say things like detonate, high order, deflagrate, initiate, do not worry about engineering definitions.

Make sure the beakers bubble, and any liquid shown should be a really ominous color. Have a Jacob's ladder in there someplace, and some flashing lights/randomly changing digital readouts too-

Do not worry about accuracy, this is art. The "autistic director" will not care to have you heavy handedly try to teach some energetic chemistry realities at the audience, in my experience. He wants something that sounds/looks cool and dangerous, will not likely be educated in the realities of the explosive arts (Or he wouldn't be asking for your input), when every second of production work co$ts they don't have motivation to waste screen time on something so pointless to the bottom line as factual accuracy the majority of (science illiterate) viewers won't appreciate.

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 15:01

Quote:

I need to get the dialogue correct and have them tallk about the correct chemicals etc.

Sorry.

I have a few trauma induced idiosyncrasies, you DID say something about "correct" in the clarification post?

You came to the right place...

aga - 2-4-2015 at 15:18

Don't listen to HIM.

He has Pratchett Worship Syndrome.

Send me the money. All of it. Now.

I'll send all of the fiendishly devised bubbling (and subtle) Elixirs of Super Stardom by return.

Post deleted/User Banned

Damnit ! Where are my Moderator Super Powers ? I Ordered those off Ebay Weeks ago !

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 15:55

Everyone knows you buy moderator status on Amazon, not ebay!

And is the OP from April 1st? Because someone in the film industry used the word "correct" as an adjective applied to "dialogue" and "chemistry".

Chemosynthesis - 2-4-2015 at 15:57

Make sure any labs presented in film are immaculate and full of flat screens and stuff. Also be sure to keep the computers near the funny colored/bubbling liquids Bert mentioned.

gardul - 2-4-2015 at 17:13

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Don't listen to HIM.

He has Pratchett Worship Syndrome.

Send me the money. All of it. Now.

I'll send all of the fiendishly devised bubbling (and subtle) Elixirs of Super Stardom by return.

Post deleted/User Banned

Damnit ! Where are my Moderator Super Powers ? I Ordered those off Ebay Weeks ago !

aga, I do not mean to interuppt you, or correct you... but that wasn't ebay you ordered that from.... it was ETSY....

HumanVoiceProductions - 2-4-2015 at 22:26

You guys and Dolls are amazing. I have been educated and entertained. Thank you

aga - 3-4-2015 at 08:07

Quote: Originally posted by gardul

that wasn't ebay you ordered that from.... it was ETSY....

DOH !

I was drunk at the time, it starts with an E, they accepted PayPal.

That was close enough for me.

Bert - 3-4-2015 at 08:22

Hey, they have an Albert Einstein stuffed mouse! Clearly this is THE online resource for sciencemadness.org super powers?

http://gizmodo.com/select-reviews-of-an-etsy-seller-who-pose...

zed - 3-4-2015 at 16:47

Awww. Not much to it. Pour some nitroglycerine on the ground. Soaks right in.

Produces a very nasty spot in the ground. Can actually be detonated by an errant footstep.

Sure, not always. But, often enough, that the boys think very carefully about how they dispose of their decomposing nitroglycerine.

We could say more. But, it might give some folks bad ideas. Those bad ideas might then translate into bad actions.

[Edited on 4-4-2015 by zed]

AJKOER - 7-4-2015 at 19:13

Actually, here is an idea as given the use of computers to alter/generate special effects, one may actually consider substances that produce a lot of smoke and little to no fire, or shock wave.

The smoke may be visually alterable to fire/smoke and sound effects modified for intensity.

This could be possibly a lot safer than having actors "playing with fire" and real high explosives (for example, just look at what happens with a cherry bomb in a bag of flour). Also, you may be able to adjust the computer generated effects without expensive and dangerous retakes. This is also in line with Bert's comment to quote:

"He wants something that sounds/looks cool and dangerous, will not likely be educated in the realities of the explosive arts (Or he wouldn't be asking for your input), when every second of production work co$ts they don't have motivation to waste screen time on something so pointless to the bottom line as factual accuracy the majority of (science illiterate) viewers won't appreciate."

[Edited on 8-4-2015 by AJKOER]

Bert - 8-4-2015 at 07:25

Exactly!

We often use compressed air to blow "explosion" debris clouds out of various projectors, light substances such as peat moss, shredded bark, foam/balsa chunks- Then they add sound and flash in post production. Using real eplosives (especially HE's) is a lot more demanding, dangerous and expensive.

We most often use explosives for live events- Battle re-enactors, air shows, places where the fire and noise are wanted. Even then, we may use a noise effect (concussion mortar, large ground salute hung on a string, LP gas powered "crow scarer" ) next to a quiet but impressive visual effect, if the visual effect is not as loud as desired- Particularly the dust fireballs, sometimes even for gas fireballs if these are not lifted with det cord.

gatosgr - 8-4-2015 at 09:12

rdx or cyclonite sounds way cooler

[Edited on 8-4-2015 by gatosgr]

Bert - 8-4-2015 at 10:00

Quote:

rdx or cyclonite sounds way cooler

Sadly, sometimes budget and safety concerns limit what we can get away with.

BTW, RDX = Cyclonite, so no reason to use the word "or", just different nams for the same thing. Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine... Several other trade names or military designation for it too.

gatosgr - 8-4-2015 at 10:28

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Quote:

rdx or cyclonite sounds way cooler

Nano RDX is supposed to be more inert although I haven't tried making it.

btw cyclonite sounds like cryptonite so it's two time catchy.. :cool:

although I would love to hear the actor spell Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine

[Edited on 8-4-2015 by gatosgr]