Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Good easy stable first time HE

insutama - 2-4-2015 at 10:31

Any recommendations for a first HE to try and make in micro amounts ? Im not too interested in primary they are way to unstable for my liking. I was looking at making petn or nitroglycerin. Also is hydrochloric acid of much use in making explosives ?
I have made silver acetylide, black powder, and all sorts of different types of flash powders.
Im looking for a fun project to do this weekend. I have HNO3 and H2SO4 i was thinking of buying some HCL but not sure if it will be of much use.
Anyway not looking to make much of anything just want to experiment with something new. I have all basic chemistry supplys and most basic chemicals.
Thanks in advance

VladimirLem - 2-4-2015 at 11:09

Hi

PETN is one of the easiest to made explosives...go for it
Even with low chemestry skills its damn easy and without much risks

So if you have access to PE, do it and have fun:)

Metacelsus - 2-4-2015 at 11:17

ETN is also a good choice; it was my first HE. Erythritol is generally easier to find.

Hydrochloric acid is not very useful for energetic materials. You can't use it in a nitrating mixture because it will react to form nitrosyl chloride. It might have some uses in a few syntheses, though.

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by Cheddite Cheese]

insutama - 2-4-2015 at 11:24

Thanks for the replies guys ya i have been reading lots about ETN and PETN both seem easy to make i just want to make a very small amount so that if it were to detonate (which from what i read is extremely rare) i would be unharmed along with doing it outside so acid nothing gets damaged. what is the smallest amount you think possible to make ?

Metacelsus - 2-4-2015 at 11:26

You could do a synthesis of 0.1 gram or less in a test tube quite easily. Smaller reactions are also easier to cool.

Molecular Manipulations - 2-4-2015 at 11:30

Smallest possible? .01 grams, practical? About 3 grams is the least I would make. I don't do much EM work anymore, but the smallest batch of ETN I've made is 5 grams. Note even one gram detonating inside your hand could blow your fingers off, small amounts are less dangerous, but still not safe.

[Edited on 2-4-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]

Bert - 2-4-2015 at 13:06

There is a long term member here called "Microtek".

Do a search on his posts, he made something of a specialty a decade or so back in small quantity energetic materials synthesis and micro sized devices.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/search.php?srchuname=Micr...

Bot0nist - 2-4-2015 at 14:15

A few tens of milligram amount of ETN will detonate spectacularly when tightly enclosed in foil and heated with direct flame. It's very loud, and has the benefits of being a secondary and less sensitive to stimuli, but not much so. A similar amount of good Armstrong's mix will also preform if confined in paper and hit between a metal hammer and a hard surface. Silver acetylide double salts and several other primaries will detonate unconfined on contact with flame. Just be cautious and use only very tiny amounts of sensitive energetic materials. One mistake is all it takes, they say.

As far as ease of synthesis, ETN is pretty straight forward. TNP is challenging, but very educational and rewarding. What you decide to try also depends on your equipment, reagents, and experience/knowledge. Just always err. on the side of caution, and keep the worst case scenario in mind in all stages of manufacture and use. You only get ten fingers and two eyes.

insutama - 2-4-2015 at 20:38

lots of good advice thanks all. I think im gonna try ETN first it seems straight forward. Is it really a secondary explosive tho ? from my understanding its more of a booster.70% nitric acid is strong enought to make ETN right ? im thinking of making 5 grams ETN and use some Silver acetylide for a primary cap probally .5 gram of SADS should be enough to detonate 5 grams ETN.

VladimirLem - 3-4-2015 at 10:29

Quote: Originally posted by insutama  
lots of good advice thanks all. I think im gonna try ETN first it seems straight forward. Is it really a secondary explosive tho ? from my understanding its more of a booster.70% nitric acid is strong enought to make ETN right ? im thinking of making 5 grams ETN and use some Silver acetylide for a primary cap probally .5 gram of SADS should be enough to detonate 5 grams ETN.


It is a secondary...but a sensitive one...
When having access to PE and high concentrated nitric acid (no need for H2SO4), please go for PETN
Yes, 70% HNO3 will work in combination with H2SO4

insutama - 3-4-2015 at 19:33

I think I can order pe online and I don't have access to nitric acid over 70% so I have to mix it with sulphuric
is petn safer than etn also is petn a secondary as well?

Bert - 3-4-2015 at 21:14

Go look at Tenney Davis Chemistry of Powder and Explosives in the sciencemadness.org library-

insutama - 4-4-2015 at 13:23

okay sounds good thanks