Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Insensitive and powerful flashpowder

DrManhattan - 4-4-2015 at 23:47

Using easy to obtain ingredients i made a flash powder composition which is relatively powerful and insensitive (especially for a flash powder).

3 parts: Potassium Permanganate
2 parts: 200 mesh aluminium powder
1 part: Iron oxide powder

It may not be as powerful as most flash powders out there but it is a hell of a lot more powerful than smokeless powder/blackpowder and a lot more insensitive. Ive hammered it, tried to set it off with a LOT of friction and get nothing. Even a naked flame directly on a batch of this stuff has a hard time setting it off unless you hold it on it for a good 7 seconds. Needs a very hot flame to set it off (sparklers, electric match, blowtorch etc..). Burns very hot (my guess due to the aluminium and iron burning like thermite) and very bright. Time doesn't degrade it as ive left a couple grams of it mixed for a good 3 months and it is still every bit as insensitive.

Zombie - 5-4-2015 at 16:14

Powdered dairy creamer, and sugar... 50/50. It's pretty cool alone. I imagine Thermite would make a nice addition.

Just sayin'

Metacelsus - 5-4-2015 at 16:40

That's not flash powder; it requires air to burn. However, I agree that it is spectacular.

Bert - 5-4-2015 at 18:59

What does it do if you put a few drops of water on a small amount and let it sit? Or a few drops of glycerin...

Loptr - 5-4-2015 at 19:07

Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
Powdered dairy creamer, and sugar... 50/50. It's pretty cool alone. I imagine Thermite would make a nice addition.

Just sayin'


Where's the oxidizer? Are you talking about a dust explosion where a propellant is used to disperse it into the air, and its subsequent ignition? If so, that is pretty impressive to watch. I was at a fireworks show one time and they simulated a nuclear blast using creamola. Mushroom cloud and those weird little lines of vertical smoke lines you see in the nuclear explosion photos. (I'm assuming falling solids that are on fire)

Bert - 5-4-2015 at 19:22

We buy the floor sweepings from a non dairy coffee creamer plant (not fit for human consumption, cheap!) by the 50 lb. bag.

About 5 oz. of FFA black powder to lift an 8" deep layer out of a 5 gallon bucket, maybe add a little coarse Ti or Zr powder mixed into the lift for some sparkles- visually impressive, but quiet. And it doesn't keep burning when it falls to the ground, rather safer than gasoline.

Bot0nist - 5-4-2015 at 19:26

Potassium perchlorate and dark Al flash is pretty insensitive to shock and friction. Not flame or spark though, of course.

Varmint - 6-4-2015 at 04:31

Loptr: Those "wierd lines" you describe in nuke test images are rocket trails meant to give a visual representation of air movement with height due to blast effects. In other words, the rockets are launched prior to initiation so the trails are of sufficient height that the intended measurements can be made.

Fireball spikes visible in tower shots taken a few uSec after initiation are the guy wires being vaporized (turned to plasma).

Loptr - 6-4-2015 at 06:04

Quote: Originally posted by Varmint  
Loptr: Those "wierd lines" you describe in nuke test images are rocket trails meant to give a visual representation of air movement with height due to blast effects. In other words, the rockets are launched prior to initiation so the trails are of sufficient height that the intended measurements can be made.

Fireball spikes visible in tower shots taken a few uSec after initiation are the guy wires being vaporized (turned to plasma).


Wow, that's pretty cool. I will have to watch another video of a blast test, and be sure to watch the lines more closely.

Varmint - 6-4-2015 at 09:55

Apologies for the hijack:

http://www.atomcentral.com/atomic-smoke-trails.aspx

Loptr - 6-4-2015 at 10:20

Quote: Originally posted by DrManhattan  
Using easy to obtain ingredients i made a flash powder composition which is relatively powerful and insensitive (especially for a flash powder).

3 parts: Potassium Permanganate
2 parts: 200 mesh aluminium powder
1 part: Iron oxide powder

It may not be as powerful as most flash powders out there but it is a hell of a lot more powerful than smokeless powder/blackpowder and a lot more insensitive. Ive hammered it, tried to set it off with a LOT of friction and get nothing. Even a naked flame directly on a batch of this stuff has a hard time setting it off unless you hold it on it for a good 7 seconds. Needs a very hot flame to set it off (sparklers, electric match, blowtorch etc..). Burns very hot (my guess due to the aluminium and iron burning like thermite) and very bright. Time doesn't degrade it as ive left a couple grams of it mixed for a good 3 months and it is still every bit as insensitive.


(back on topic ;-)
Have you attempted ignition via electrostatic discharge?

[Edited on 6-4-2015 by Loptr]

Zombie - 6-4-2015 at 18:50

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
We buy the floor sweepings from a non dairy coffee creamer plant (not fit for human consumption, cheap!) by the 50 lb. bag.

About 5 oz. of FFA black powder to lift an 8" deep layer out of a 5 gallon bucket, maybe add a little coarse Ti or Zr powder mixed into the lift for some sparkles- visually impressive, but quiet. And it doesn't keep burning when it falls to the ground, rather safer than gasoline.



As kids we would bury a 4" stainless steel pipe about 3 feet into the ground.

From there drop a bottomless soda can, containing a "block buster"with a cigarette time delay fuse, and a baggie full of creamer, sugar, and a few drops of gasoline or whatever.

It would shoot a flame approx 25 feet into the air, and shake the ground.

I'm surprised we all lived.

Not very scientific but FUN>

Bert - 6-4-2015 at 20:43

The liquid accelerant and sugar were not likely needed, the flash cracker for lift was certainly over kill- But probably easier to find than good black powder for a kid back then.

Hey, if it was fun & nobody died! I did similar things, and somehow avoided police retribution or permanent scars.

Zombie - 7-4-2015 at 14:53

One of my Mom's ducks didn't fair so well... All else was good.

Funny thing is I thought black powder or even smokeless powder were illegal back then.

Block busters were considered toys. Go figure.

Tabun - 2-7-2015 at 02:28

Can somebody tell me how safe different flash powder compositios are in storage?Which one is the most suited for being used in firecrackers which are not used immediately?Can that somebody also compare them to some other,well-known explosives in terms of power or brisance and stability/sensitivity?

greenlight - 2-7-2015 at 09:51

I don't think its a good idea to store devices with flash powder in them, its so easy to mix up so you can just make it when u are going to use it.
High on the list of least sensitive would have to be perchlorate based flash.


[Edited on 2-7-2015 by greenlight]