Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Simple energetics

NitratedKittens - 13-4-2015 at 03:50

what kind of energetics can I make with charcoal dust, potassium nitrate , sodium acetate , sulphur , sodium bicarbonate , sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide , potassium hydroxide , IPA , and dextrin

Jylliana - 13-4-2015 at 04:27

A gram of potassium nitrate and some powdered charcoal make a nice, docile 'flash powder'.

That's all I'm going to give you because I have kewl doubts.

Loptr - 13-4-2015 at 06:01

There are volumes of information on this topic.

Besides, it looks like you have the ingredients for making black powder, so I would suggest starting there.

NitratedKittens - 13-4-2015 at 07:14

I have tried to make black powder for 2 years with no success

szuko03 - 13-4-2015 at 07:22

Black powder is a science in its own right. What I mean is even if you have the formula and everything you still need to be exact and account for variables in your mixing. You will not be able to produce black powder without exact ratios, pure products, and a ball mill for uniform mixing. If you simply mix things without a balance you will get no where.

If you tried for 2 years and have not had success you need more experience before you move up. I agree with others you need a few more years of experience, keep trying that BP youll get it.

hyfalcon - 13-4-2015 at 07:25

Intimate mixing and fineness of ingredients makes for successful BP.

Loptr - 13-4-2015 at 07:46

Ensuring the chemicals are completely dry and ball milling the heck out of it, followed by wetting, granulation, and drying, will ensure a decent quality BP.

You can also sieve the powder to ensure consistent size of granules, which will allow you to predict its performance.

I have a couple books on the subject. When I used to actively mess around with pyrotechnics, sometimes I would end up with a very hot BP that would blow up my rockets, etc. Yeah, I didn't make the most consistent BP, as it would range from good to overly excited when burning. I think it might have been the different in charcoals.

deltaH - 13-4-2015 at 10:26

Quote: Originally posted by szuko03  
Black powder is a science in its own right. What I mean is even if you have the formula and everything you still need to be exact and account for variables in your mixing. You will not be able to produce black powder without exact ratios, pure products, and a ball mill for uniform mixing. If you simply mix things without a balance you will get no where.

If you tried for 2 years and have not had success you need more experience before you move up. I agree with others you need a few more years of experience, keep trying that BP youll get it.


Actually, exact ratio's for black powder are not critical for general 'performance' and indeed historically different ratios have been used to the classical 10:15:75 we all know.

This gentleman did excellent work on proving this:

http://musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html

Texium - 13-4-2015 at 15:06

I wouldn't say a ball mill is absolutely necessary either unless you're making a whole lot of it and/or need it be very consistent. I've made black powder of the 10:15:75 ratio using only a simple ceramic mortar and pestle to grind up the components as finely as I could, and it still burned vigorously. For my materials, I used sulfur powder from Duda Diesel, potassium nitrate recrystallized from stump remover, and activated carbon from the pet store.

You can also make a mixture called yellow powder from a combination of potassium nitrate, potassium or sodium carbonate (must be anhydrous), and sulfur. It's a bit of a strange one though. You have to melt it a bit before igniting it, so that it will form polysulfides. Once you do that it becomes quite sensitive. If you don't melt it before igniting it, it will burn very slowly. I don't remember what the proper ratio is for it as it's been over a year since I made it, but you can probably find out a bunch about it around the internet.

Bert - 13-4-2015 at 15:48

Fulminating Katz!
Quote: Originally posted by NitratedKittens  
I have tried to make black powder for 2 years with no success


The information is freely available online.

Ian von Maltitz: Black Powder Manufacture, Testing & Optimizing PDF

It took me (as a young teenager) about a year to figure black powder out with a very limited technical library NO internet access, 40 odd years ago. If you can't figure BP out with a computer, Google and the whole internet at your disposal?!

If you are not a troll, you are someone who should not be allowed to handle chemicals, explosives or many small kitchen appliances.

[Edited on 13-4-2015 by Bert]

Etaoin Shrdlu - 13-4-2015 at 16:58

Don't make any other energetics until you figure out black powder.

NitratedKittens - 15-4-2015 at 13:58

Thank you for all the help:D, I will try again at black powder, oh and I have tried yellow powder it has a lot of suspense in the ignition process.

NitratedKittens - 16-4-2015 at 09:31

Thanks Bert that PDF was very helpful!:D

I am positively beaming with my successful black powder and would like to thank everyone who contributed:P

george76904 - 17-4-2015 at 22:53

I also am getting into energetics after making my own pyrotechnics for the past few years. I found black powder manufacture to be relatively easy when I picked up a cheap "ball mill"(3&or6lb rotary rock tumbler) from harbor freight. I threw them all in with some lead balls and after a few hours I had decent mill dust. But I used dextrin as a binder and sure enough I was able to make good BP for any purpose. Hope this helps,
Will